What on earth is going on?  I hope our UK friends are all alright!

Not just there but here, too: Cleveland, Philly and LA. There seem to be two sorts: flash mobs of young kids who just go wild, and flash mobs who rob and loot. Cleveland passed legislation making it illegal to use communiations media to plan and organize illegal activity (only helpful afterward for prosecution) but the ACLU proimised to test its constitutionality. Go figure. blessings. lance

wimsey1 wrote on Aug 10^th, 2011 at 8:55am:

Not just there but here, too: Cleveland, Philly and LA. There seem to be two sorts: flash mobs of young kids who just go wild, and flash mobs who rob and loot. Cleveland passed legislation making it illegal to use communiations media to plan and organize illegal activity (only helpful afterward for prosecution) but the ACLU proimised to test its constitutionality. Go figure. blessings. lance

:( :'( :( :'( :( :'(

I'm over in the UK at the moment on holiday, so I've been watching this with interest. There has been nothing much close to me and I'm well away from any likely troublespots.

The whole thing started when the police shot dead a known troublemaker (multiple convictions) in a taxi as they tried to make an arrest. The person was armed.

This then kicked off a protest which turned to looting. This has then spread over the last four nights to multiple cities including London, Birmingham and Manchester (so far).

The police have been fairly powerless to stop it, mainly due to there not being enough police but also with them not being allowed to do anything that might hurt the looters. What makes this sensitive is that the person who was originally shot and the majority of the looters are from ethnic minorities, so the politically correct senior officers are not using the full capabilities of the police to control the riot / looting. Of course this is alienating the general public and the police who are not allowed to do much.

For people who have been caught, most are being let off with either time served (overnight in a police cell), cautioned or bailed. In effect, they are getting away with being slapped over the wrist with a wet bus ticket. Is this any incentive to stop the looting?

There were three deaths overnight when people trying to defend where they live were run over by a looter in a car.

There is some interesting commentry in a blog by an anonymous police inspector - START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Hopefully this is contained quick, otherwise I suspect there will be a major backlash from the law abiding public.

I know I'm not intending to be going to any city at night in the time I'm here.

Having recently retired from law enforcement, I of course have a somewhat jaded view. ;) When crap like this starts you have 2 options, use a heavy hand to slap it down NOW, chemical agents, batons, riot formations, rubber bullets, mounted police..........or...

You do the politically correct thing. Try to talk sense into a bunch of anarchists who will use any civil unrest to start massive rioting, burning and looting.

The Seattle WTO riots in 1999 with a Police Chief we had kicked out of San Diego because of his "touchy feely crooks just need to be hugged philosophy"   He sang Kum-Baya while Seattle burned to the ground.

You have 2 choices with evil. You confront it and defeat it. Or you curl up in a little ball, suck your thumb and hope mommy will come deal with it. You're witnessing, once again, in London this time, how well that approach works.

Back to your regularly scheduled, politically correct, all is well, the government is handling everything programming!

Joe

From what I read, from a few different news sources I'll try to pull them up again), Great Britain, whose economy is not much better than ours, made some cuts in their programs (we call them entitlements) that primarily hit the poor citizens, ethnic groups, but not so much the wealthy (Royal family in particular).  I believe the first round of unrest came from college students who found their tuition benefits were being cut, making them pay more out of their pockets, then it escalated from there.

It is starting to happen here in the US as well, as Wimsey pointed out.  Take a look as what happened at the Wisconsin state fair over this last weekend.  Mobs fighting, trashing, etc. - racially motivated for the most part.  Why?  They are kids (teens), so gee, pat them on the wrist and tell them "no, no".

Guiseppi is right.  Not only in Great Britain but here in the US, being politically correct so as not to offend someone's ethnicity, someone's financial status, someone's religion, or someone's mode of underwear, is tying the hands of all law enforcement.  We have anarchy beginning, and unless we give up this worry about offending someone, it will escalate.

Off soapbox now.

Sandy

Mike NZ wrote on Aug 10^th, 2011 at 10:01am:

The whole thing started when the police shot dead a known troublemaker (multiple convictions) in a taxi as they tried to make an arrest. The person was armed.

Gosh,i don't feel very smart...This whole time,i thought they were rioting due to the NBA lockout and potential strike  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I agree 100% with Joe on this...IMHO...its time to get physical (to the hell with the media) it's time to get back in control by all means.....Lenny

p.s. Mike,i hope you don't mind that i threw a little humor in there...as this is a sad situation

Lenny wrote on Aug 10^th, 2011 at 11:43am:

p.s. Mike,i hope you don't mind that i threw a little humor in there...as this is a sad situation

No worries at all.

It seems a bit unreal to me that all this is happening.

My brother in law is going to London from San Jose CA this week for work related trip.  I am praying he stays safe.

Melissa wrote on Aug 10^th, 2011 at 8:06am:

What on earth is going on?  I hope our UK friends are all alright!

Hi to all!
I am one U.K member who is OK, I like all of the country have been shocked by the events of the past few nights and just like the student fee protests a few months ago which were infiltrated by anarchists the same has happened again only this time it was the shooting of an armed criminal that was the catalist for the low life of this country to kick off again - We call them chavs.

All The police seemed to be doing is standing around letting it all happen though some would say that tats an unfair statement. I personaly beleive that our police should be armed like in the states and some other European countries like Spain.

Of course the do gooders are out in force yet again bleeting on about how they come from deprived homes etc
No excuse for acts of down right evil thats what i say!Well the courts are sitting all night to deal with the assembled morons and many are being commited to trial at crown court because crown court can pass a harsher scentence.

I would like to see them all in the Tower for a good old beheading session!!!!!!

But on a serious note please don't worry about relatives visiting the UK and don't let the unfortunate events put you off coming to see us either!, what you are seeing is already dying off and is not representative of our country

Guiseppi wrote on Aug 10^th, 2011 at 10:34am:

Having recently retired from law enforcement, I of course have a somewhat jaded view. ;) When crap like this starts you have 2 options, use a heavy hand to slap it down NOW, chemical agents, batons, riot formations, rubber bullets, mounted police..........or... Anyone...with any sense...knows where shit belongs....in the crappper.... You do the politically correct thing. Try to talk sense into a bunch of anarchists who will use any civil unrest to start massive rioting, burning and looting. PC...in my book.... is: your right to "riot" stops at your own front door. You wanna destroy?...start on your own shit...I WORKED for mine. The Seattle WTO riots in 1999 with a Police Chief we had kicked out of San Diego because of his "touchy feely crooks just need to be hugged philosophy"   He sang Kum-Baya while Seattle burned to the ground. Yup...that would be Norm Stamper...he got run out of town. In the kingdom of nice...Seattle, Wa...even we had had enough. Word is that Norm is an accomplished local theater actor....sometimes your best position in life is decided FOR you. I still like Norm...he is active and positive in the community.... You have 2 choices with evil. You confront it and defeat it. Or you curl up in a little ball, suck your thumb and hope mommy will come deal with it. You're witnessing, once again, in London this time, how well that approach works. A coworker of mine was one of the anarchists involved. He was so smugly proud of having been tear-gassed....interesting what floats some folks boat. Actually, a total waste of a smart guy....smarter than me. I get along with everybody...so he was willing to discuss all kinds of stuff with me. I asked..."what was your point....what were you trying to accomplish...I know what you're against...what are you for????" He couldn't friggin' answer that...he had destroy in his soul. I didn't get it then...I don't get it now. He's gone from this job now (invited OUT)....and we are all better without his worthless ass........ Back to your regularly scheduled, politically correct, all is well, the government is handling everything programming! Joeseppi....I'm scared...they walk among us..... Best, Jon Joe

edited to clarify

A friend of mine lives in London and this is what she says in her Live Journal, "This is somewhat of a shock to me, since I normally have to go to the Balkans for that sort of thing."

Her family escaped to England from Yugoslavia when she was a small child.

Apparently the jails are now full and overflowing so we're getting pretty worried here in Oz. We know what happened last time.

LOL at you Brian.   

AussieBrian wrote on Aug 13^th, 2011 at 7:21pm:

Apparently the jails are now full and overflowing so we're getting pretty worried here in Oz. We know what happened last time.

;D

(Sorry.  But it's a schadenfreude sort of laughter.)

Best,

George

hi my name is angie i live in the UK its been all over the news here lucky for me nothing has happened where i live in the north of england we must be more civilised up here LOL apparently it is more kids and youths that are causing the trouble rather than the adults the world has gone mad ever since the do gooders banned smacking kids the kids run riot and the parents have no control now its the kids smacking the parents  :o

It's getting so bad that I guess we'll need anti-social smart phone sting operations?

August has lost its lazy crazy days reputation.

Charlie

Charlie wrote on Aug 17^th, 2011 at 12:32pm:

It's getting so bad that I guess we'll need anti-social smart phone sting operations?

Just take away their phones and let them discover how to pass notes in class. lance

This is a LJ post from my friend who lives in London (the same one that I mentioned above)

02:09 pm - A retrospective on the London Riots and demonisation
I’ve half-written and abandoned many paragraphs about the London riots. It is a complex issue and I like to do complexity justice, to try and build bridges between the polarised discourses I’ve been seeing on the media and between people. The middle-place, the meanwhile place is an intensely uncomfortable one (stripped as it is of the snugly coziness afforded us by righteous indignation and conviction of rightness) but it is the place most nurturing to humility, dignity and compassion. It’s the no man’s land between my intense sense of personal rage and sense of empathy and love. This groove is unsustainable because all things are in flux, and I am human – the place to which I aspire to return. The place from which I do my best parenting and thinking and relating. It’s the place from which I have been trying to write about this.

The young offenders are not blameless victims of society, and Cameron’s policies did not cause the riots. The people who looted and burned were not political protesters of the left or modern day Robin Hoods. They should not be excused or glorified. However, I don’t think they should be demonised either, nor marginalised in our thinking. Scapegoated into the feral other to be feared and contained and swept out of view. Locked away and stripped of all dignity and right.

I mourn the loss of lives and homes and livelihoods. Although I never felt a personal sense of fear and danger (violence in my neighbourhood was scarce and well-contained; I don’t live above a shop and am of little interest to young louts) my heart went out to those who did, whose circumstances on this round of Fate and Luck placed them in hand’s reach of peril.

Those who rampaged through the cities without care for who they hurt failed us certainly, but they were also failed by families/communities/societies/politicians. The cuts did not cause this, but they catalysed it.

Bored children are dangerous children, almost any parent can tell you that. There has always been a proportion of young people growing in boredom and restlessness and chaos whose homes contained absence or violence or chaos and were not good places to be. The lives of these young people often seemed marked by chronic structure-lessness and hopelessness and lack of aspiration. Nowhere to go, nothing to do except hang around with others who fit the same criteria and amuse themselves with random acts of nuisance or aggression. A sense of power and kinship is intoxicating, especially to those who have chronically felt humiliated, marginalised and disempowered. Those who feel adrift from the larger community/family/society form their own societies in which (more often than not) the already familiar rituals of criminality and violence become rituals of bonding and belonging. They don’t feel that they owe us anything and they don’t feel they have anything to lose – a dangerous combination that is unlikely to be solved by simple application of stringent sanctions because a prison term is the expected rite of passage in that set. It doesn’t mean the current set should not face criminal persecution/civil fines – only that the scope of the problem goes much beyond them and extends into the coming generations, and that its corresponding solution needs to be long-term and systemic.

The thuggish underclass running riot are not separate from us. They are the feral children of the society in which we live and to rehabilitate them we need to teach them a new language. The ASBO-happy tend to come with long histories of exclusion. Too much trouble to keep at home, too much disruption and administrative pain to keep in school. Community services for children with disruptive behaviour, chronic truancy, poor academic performance and poor social integration have never been well-funded. However, since the cuts most of the services and agencies I know of who were targeting this specific subset (such as the children who had or were about to be permanently excluded from school) have had to close and what rehabilitative or damage-controlling methods they offered vanished.

The results of hardened, trigger-happy children with time on their hands having a wild party are expensive, arguably even pricier than the cost of services. And the moment we turn into reactionary retaliation, the moment we emotionally disown them and ostracise them, strip them of all care – then we become part of the problem because we give birth to the mentality and the context which breed hostility and marginalisation.

Those who are not cared about, who in turn do not care about others – these are the ones who feel they have nothing to lose and are therefore unafraid of social sanctions. And teaching someone to care – to make themselves vulnerable enough to form relationships and attachments with others, to let themselves go soft and woundable enough to do this is incredibly intense and hard work. It takes a lot of resources and patience and love and it is usually met with chaos and lashing out. Staff who do this (because there are not families to do it in their stead) need to be funded and well-supported. All children (but especially wayward, feral ones) need structure and love. The measure in which each of these components needs to be administered to achieve best results varies from individual to individual, and societally is difficult to implement as a policy unless there is something like a period of compulsory national service (either in the army or the community) to try and reintegrate the truants, to teach them skill, to allow them to form relationships outside of the gangs – or if all else fails- to remove the opportunity and the boredom that free time allows.

It takes a lot of mindfulness and planning and care to implement something like this – damaged, dangerous children can be incredibly damaging to others- so any project of this kind has to be well funded, well staffed and well supervised. Prison without therapy and compassion will not support anyone in making different choices. It will not teach young people the error of what they did – only the deepen the discourse in which one is the enemy and the other gets what they deserve.