New CH.com Forum | |
http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Getting to Know Ya >> I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1331075416 Message started by joannhi on Mar 6th, 2012 at 6:10pm |
Title: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by joannhi on Mar 6th, 2012 at 6:10pm
Does Imipramine help to prevent the attacks or does Dr. just think I'm depressed? Can I use my Zomig spray with this if I do get an attack? Is it time to look for new neurologist? If anyone has had success with preventing attacks with Imipramine please let me know.
|
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by Bob Johnson on Mar 6th, 2012 at 10:19pm
Imip. isn't used with Cluster now. May have ben tried in the past but it has no track record for effectivness.
Too soon to say whether you should change docs but you might print the following, give to him, and see what the response is. This is a widly used protocol and the med is considered the firs line response med for preventon/reduction of # of attacks. ==== Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8. Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients. Blau JN, Engel HO. Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018). ======================================= SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted. “I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.” Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented. === Print the PDF file, below, and give to him. ![]() |
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by joannhi on Mar 6th, 2012 at 10:33pm
I've printed out the info but I don't see him for another 10 days. I had requested the Verepimal over the phone (probably not the way to go) but I read it's usually given along with the Prednisone which he had me on. I'll keep trying though, What choice do I have. Thanks
|
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by joannhi on Mar 7th, 2012 at 7:53am
It felt a little patronizing when I saw it was a antidepressant but I needed to know if the Imipramine was helpful for clusters. I don't do well on antidepressants as shown last night when I was thrashing in bed all night and not from clusters. I had my usual 9:20 pm episode an hour after taking the Imipramine. I all ready have a name off the Ouch board and plan on getting a second opinion. Will keep this Dr. on till I can get an appointment and go from there. Thanks.
|
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by wimsey1 on Mar 8th, 2012 at 8:29am
Have you used O2 as described here on this board? Many of us recognize it as a true life saver. And pain mitigator. lance
|
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by joannhi on Mar 8th, 2012 at 9:34am
Don't you need a script for that? I'm new to clusters. On my fourth week and waiting for my second Dr. appt. I'm on my last two days of the Prednisone, with no relief, but the Zomig spray and during the day Redbull work most of the time. I'm also curious about the Vitamin D3. I started taking it three weeks before my clusters started. Can you have to much D3? I had seen a Dr. Oz show that it helped if you got tired in the afternoon. So many questions and no concrete answers. Where are the studies? Sorry, I'm in the angry stage. Thanks all. It always helps to hear from you people.
|
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by tachead on Mar 8th, 2012 at 6:44pm
Doctors are practicing medicine when it comes to CH. Antidepressants are just one of the drug therapies they use to practice..who knows it may just work.
|
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by joannhi on Mar 8th, 2012 at 7:21pm
thanks, wish I could stay on them and give them a chance but they kept me up all night, heart racing and lots of limb movement. I was so tierd today I started clusters 3 times. I'm buying stock in Redbull.
|
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by tachead on Mar 8th, 2012 at 8:50pm
;D Lmao..that's a lots better attitude...get the 02 high flow. You do need a script. Check out the 02 tab on the left.Stock in Redbull would be good too...he.eh :o
tachead ;) |
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by Kevin_M on Mar 9th, 2012 at 1:01am joannhi wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 7:21pm:
Coming off the Prednisone can be a rough time with clusters, and a good reason a preventative is started when the pred is given. At this point, as mentioned above, oxygen as an abortive should be scripted, starting a preventative now will take time. The availability of Zomig for multiple hits a day isn't feasible. They could have been saved if oxygen and a preventative had been given at the start. You should inform your doctor immediately of the increase in hits and the side effects of the Imipramine. Knowing your doctor's next steps now will be a crucial point as to whether he can treat clusters. Seems below what's needed so far. Quote:
Find out now with a call to him. |
Title: Re: I asked for Verepamil and Dr. gives Imipramine? Post by joannhi on Mar 9th, 2012 at 2:41pm
Thanks, I put a call in this morning. So far the afternooners are a k6-7. I seem to get really tired and feel like I have to nap and bang, here it comes. The Redbull has been taking care of them. 10 mins. I'm down to a shadow. Not so lucky with the night ones but the Zomig takes care of those. At least I'm covered so far while I'm getting into the system and learning the ropes (thanks to you all).
|
New CH.com Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.4! YaBB © 2000-2009. All Rights Reserved. |