Thoughts on Suicide?
copy/paste seen below from START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE with written permission from the OP...."Yes, you have my permission LasVegas.  Thank you for helping to spread awareness and standing up for what is right."

I found the following copy/pasted posting very disturbing and felt the need to publicize what kind of guy the keynote speaker of last month's ClusterBuster conference is all about when it comes to suicide...

"
Thoughts on Suicide?
Oct 14th, 2012 at 9:22pm Alert Board Moderator about this Post! Mark & Quote Quote
Today on Facebook, I stumbled upon a very disturbing post made by Carter Lee directed towards a young girl that took her life.  As those of you that attended the Cluster Buster Conference this year know, Carter gave a presentation.  After reading what Carter posted on facebook, I found myself enraged, but more than that, deeply pained for those who have lost someone to suicide, especially Suicide Headaches. It makes me question his sincerity...

Carter Lee:
Okay I get it, bullies suck, I was bullied, it's not cool. But when someone takes their life they should never be celebrated. It's fine to spread awareness but no one can make you kill yourself, that is your own stupid selfish decision to make. No one has that emotional control over you unless you let them.

Anonymous:
"own stupid selfish decision to make" - that is harsh. Obviously, a suicidal person is not thinking clearly or long term, but to make such a hurtful comment is rude and insensitive to friends/family that already struggle to cope with losing a loved one to such a tragedy.

Carter Lee:
First of all Anonymous I have lost two loved ones because of suicide and I have been there myself. It is a selfish decision, the most selfish decision one can make. It's a stupid decision because we only get this one life. In her little video she is able to share how she's depressed and going through anxiety. It's not like she just "snapped," and offed herself. She planned it out, not caring about friends or loved ones she left behind holding the pain. If she had enough cognitive ability to make that video, she could have chosen to seek real help. Suicide is pathetic. Her story is sad, life can suck, but that's no excuse.

Bob:
With all due respect, I have to completely disagree with just about everything you’ve said.
These types of statements are never helpful to anyone and hurtful to many. Being able to find the strength to pull yourself back from the brink, or being lucky enough to have others around you to help pull you back, says absolutely nothing about anyone else.

We are all subjects of our environment and make decisions based upon all the years and all the environmental pressures we enjoy or endure.

For many, if not all of us, life itself is not the most important thing in making some decisions. Consider the soldier that goes off to war, putting his beliefs ahead of life itself. Is it selfish to put your life on the line, leaving your family behind, to stand up for principles or standing up for those that can’t stand up for themselves? Is it selfish to put your life on the line to fight indignity or unjustice, knowing you might leave your family and loved ones behind over some of societies ills?

Statements such as yours can do one of two things. People that agree with you will check “like” and nod their heads. There are millions of people that have similar views on this subject. Some based upon religious reasons, some out of an ignorance formed by not walking in other’s shoes and not caring to find out, others because of arrogance that they are strong and everyone else should be just as strong. Others just as an honest opinion.
So you will not fid it difficult to find people to agree with you.

The other thing it can do is cause you to become another part of someone’s environment that again attacks their own self esteem and making them feel more helpless & more unworthy. This is certainly not helpful to anyone.

No one should celebrate the act of anyone taking their own life. When this happens, we should all be ashamed of ourselves as a culture that allows people to fall so deeply.
I am surprised that anyone that has suffered being abused or bullied in their life, would word a response in a way that sounds suspiciously like a bullying tactic.

IMHO, it’s ok to not agree with someone that takes their life or feel there is never a good enough reason to do so. Do you really feel like insults and degrading comments is the way to go?
If a friend of mine is suicidal, the last thing I would do is try to convince them of how beautiful life can be, through insults.
If a friend of mine takes their life, the last thing I would ever want to do is insult them after the fact and make those that did care about them, feel even worse. Everyone around them, if they really did care, feels bad enough for not being able to do enough to help them. Is the best way to help them grieve or come to terms with the loss, to tell them that the person that took their life was weak and selfish and not deserving of their love and compassion anyway. Forget them, they weren’t worth it?
Now THAT sounds selfish to me.

If the environment around someone that is having trouble, is telling them that they are doing more harm to those they love, than good, by living…….if people are telling them they are worthless and a drag upon those around them, then leaving can be construed as not only, not selfish, but a mixed up feeling of the ultimate sacrifice to make the lives of those they care about, better. This is a common reason people do this. Yes it is mixed up and not true…..people care about each other and WANT them in their lives.
That said, insults certainly don’t help anyone take a look inside and come out feeling better about themselves or their place in the lives of those around them.

I would personally suggest that anyone that shares your views, and yes you are entitled to them, to just keep them to yourselves. It does no one any good and can do great harm.
I would hope that anyone that finds themselves confronted with a loved one in such dire straits, to choose compassion and an attempt to understand by reaching out and listening, rather than trying to insult them out of their state of mind.


I responded to Carter's Original post by saying:
Carter Lee, your arrogance and ignorance on suicide astound me. How dare you insult the families and friends that have lost a loved one to suicide. As the "public figure" you so proudly refer to yourself as and "motivational speaker" you claim to be, you should be building people up, not tearing them down. Please don't list psychiatrist under your self-proclaimed accomplishments.

Carter Lee:
Lol really? Should we celebrate those that "snap" and shoot up malls as well and kill people. They were hurting too. I have lost close relatives and friends to suicide, I've held a shotgun in my mouth. I don't take this subject lightly but I will not blame anyone else except for the person who took their own life for their suicide. Just like when Kurt Cobain killed himself and he became a hero and a musical genius magically, suicide should not be celebrated. How am I tearing down anyone with that post? I'm simply putting the blame of suicide where it should go, on the person who killed themselves.

Me:
How can you even compare a mass shooting spree with suicide? I understand you have had your own struggles, as we all have, and it's great that you have overcome them, but shame on you for trying to tarnish the memories that people hold dear of the ones they have lost to suicide by calling them weak and selfish. Way to go, we are all so proud of you for being such a positive role model. Hopefully, one day we can all be as strong as you.

Carter Lee:
You are giving me way too much power. How am I tarnishing memories? She tarnished them by leaving her family alone. Hopefully people aren't as uneducated as you because I have never seen anyone defend suicide and call it anything but selfish. Read a book.

Carter Lee:
And I am a self-improvement guy, but I just don't deal with bull shit or wear baby gloves, you know, I actually make a difference by calling bull shit out. Also I didn't make this personal with you as you have with me by insulting me over and over again. What a wonderful role model you are. Many people are proud of me, you don't validate me and I don't care if everyone agrees with me or not. I am who I am. You like it, you listen, you don't, go to a different FB page. Why would you friend me to then just leap in and start insulting me. It's called the delete button, you don't like me, delete me. Now I just shared some harsh words with you, please don't go killing yourself over it as I guess then in your logic it would be my fault, not yours.

I find this very hurtful, especially since suicide was touched upon multiple times at the conference."

Seen below is my only reply to this thread....
----------------------------------------------------
Suicide is a common thought with no real statistics published regarding CH's.

I personally did not care for Carter Lee's speech and was quite surprised he was selected as the keynote speaker for our conference last month.

Over the past 13 years I have met 17 CH'ers here in Las Vegas and as of last month an estimate of 100 CH'ers after attending my 1st conference/convention Wink

Since 1999 I have been on clusterheadaches.com and have read/replied/posted thousands of very personal messages from others afflicted by our disease.

Never once have I met someone nor read about someone that can casually do a live radio interview and not have to interrupt while experiencing a high KIP CH.  Or another comment he vomited stating he could have alcoholic drinks and not let the beast interrupt his good time at the bar.  When Carter Lee spoke of his "mind over matter abilities" to do these things, he lost me as a compassionate fellow CH'er and lost my interest in anything further he would have to say about CH's, as I found it unbelievable.

We discussed how important it would be to create public awareness.  Carter boasted and bragged about how wonderful he is and how easy it is for him to get interviews with the rich and the famous.  Somebody from our audience asked Carter while he was still bragging at the podium if he could get an interview with Harry Potter who suffers from CH's.  He stated he just achieved and interview with Donald Trump, so Harry Potter should be a piece of cake.

After his speech later that day, I asked him if he was anxious to contact Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter) to hopefully gain an interview resulting in better public CH awareness.  Carter gave a very vague reply of "we'll see what happens."  This was not too encouraging while he turned his head and attention to the person beside me who was awaiting to purchase his book.

Carter's comments on this FaceBook page (seen in the post above) about suicide honestly do not surprise me at all, as he truly comes across in person and in his writings as a non-compassionate arrogant narcissist.   

Just about every CH'er i've ever encountered with the discussion of suicide ALL have admitted they have at least thought about it once while in a bad cycle.  I have found one inspirational reason to prevent me from suicide, my 12 year old son that I am a single parent to.  Some CH'ers do not have an inspirational reason to stay alive and I find it very understandable why somebody would commit suicide during a bad cycle.  I don't agree with it, but I understand.  We Ch'ers are very strong individuals, as we have survived and will continue to fight and remain alive with this living nightmare we suffer from.

However, to publicly make disparaging remarks on a FaceBook page where family, friends and co-workers, etc will read what Carter recklessly wrote was vulgar, rude and disrespectful.  Carter Lee's FaceBook reply exemplified nothing but "motivational speaker" pessimism and selfishness.  >:(

"Together, we fight!"  ;)

-Gregg in Las Vegas
Episodic CH since 11 yrs old, now 44.
---------------------------------------------
go to clusterbusters.com to read the many replies to this thread titled "Thoughts on Suicide?"...

One thing became clear to me and several others during Carter's presentation....

He absolutely does not have CH, IMO. 

LasVegas wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 11:11pm:

I have found one inspirational reason to prevent me from suicide, my 12 year old son that I am a single parent to.   .

Please don't ever forget that...you are a very good man Gregg.....Lenny

Wow!!
To hear this from a motivational speaker astounds me!
Weak?? Selfish?? m*th*rf**k*r!!
Excuse my language but I am enraged!!
Those of us who deal with Cluster headaches as"Chronic" and I have been for over 33+ years are battling with thoughts of suicide. For that matter anyone who has Cluster headaches. To have an affliction that is WORSE than being tortured on a daily basis say's it all because the human mind can only take so much pain for so long before you just have to say,Is this suffering worth it? It takes away all enjoyment of life and leaves you exhausted constantly with little to no "Quality" of life and living. Your loved ones have to understand your pain and suffering and give you support when needed which is a big part of this issue here.

Would they think you are selfish and weak if all your life 10 or 20 times a day as with my case of being in such incredible, horrific pain that suicide has not crossed our minds?  I AM NOT CONDONING SUICIDE! LIFE IS BEAUTIFUL!!
NEVER STOP FIGHTING MY FRIENDS!!  Cluster headaches have been given that name for a reason(Suicide Headaches) it is because of the fact that it is the most painful condition a human being can suffer. More painful than childbirth without anesthetic, shattered or broken bones, having a limb amputated without anesthetic. That considered how do you say someone who suffers this affliction is weak and selfish to have not at least thought of suicide. Suicide thoughts are something I have to fight with . I also in the last 14 years have had 17 operations that have left me living with severe nerve damage and living at a constant 5 on the kip pain scale with medication to help, without medication I go strait up to a 7+ and also ended my 30+ year career as a captain, fisherman, diver and mariner and forced me to retire young as disabled. The Cluster headaches that I suffer are all over an 8 on the kip pain scale and 80% of the time they are a 10+. which leaves me on the floor screaming and rolling around in so much pain that I have actually passed out. 

Unless it has happened to you comprehension of this much pain is futile to describe and can't be understood.  I love life and have a 21 year old son to live for so he will have a father and I found Jewelry making for something to help me also to keep my self busy. It is what keeps me fighting the thoughts of suicide and ALWAYS WINNING!!! TO ALL CLUSTER HEADACHE SUFFERERS!! NEVER STOP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT!! IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS OF SUICIDE SEEK HELP IMMEDIATELY!! IT IS AVAILABLE 24 HOURS A DAY THROUGH YOUR LOCAL HOSPITAL. NEVER BE AFRAID TO CALL 911 IF NECESSARY!!

Be sympathetic and understanding for those who suffer from this incredibly painful disorder. If someone has taken there own life because of Cluster headaches NEVER TEAR DOWN THERE MEMORY AND HUMILIATE THEM Mr. Carter!!!!!   Those of us who battle and fight so hard daily have to have the understanding, sympathy and love from our loved ones as we fight the "Good Fight" and never and I mean NEVER!!!! Call a lost loved one to this horrific affliction weak and selfish!!!........Johnny

Amen, Johnny!

My CHer often says "just end it"... I believe at times he is waiting for it to take him, or for someone else to put him out of his misery during a bad hit. There are nights he has said "I've had enough of this". All this does scare me, it is real. And don't we many times say after someone's death; "at least they aren't in pain any longer"?  I don't feel suicide is the best answer at all...but it is understandable at times.  It hurts those who love them, as does all forms of death.  Give them the dignity that they touched lives, they loved and were loved, there must be positive memories floating around in the world of them.  It is sad, true...but how many "mistakes" have we each made in our lifetimes.  There will be many more also.  This was just one bad decision or mistake that can't be taken back or made up for. It is not unforgivable!  He makes it sound like the unpardonable sin.

I'm not impressed with him, I've never heard of him before this and don't care if I hear anything more.  A motivational speaker uplifts the positive and doesn't dwell on the negative.  God bless him....

Beth, I totally agree with you and all forms of death so hurt the loved ones that remain. To have a motivational speaker insult the memories of loved ones lost to this horrible affliction was just to much for me to not speak out. I just could not believe this was done in a public forum and is so incredibly arrogant and hurtful to all that have lost loved ones to CH or for that matter any other affliction where the person that took there own life so as not to be a burden on loved ones or suffer horrifically. Suicide is not the answer but is understandable in some severe cases.
. I just believe that to tear down and insult the memory of a loved one was not his place PERIOD!  It also should have never been spoken of with such hurtful disregard to to the living!.....Johnny

There was a movie and now DVD from 2002 called " The Hours", set in three eras.  The writer Virginia Woolf (Nicole Kidman) in 1923 who is writing a book, a housewife (Julianne Moore) in 1951 who reads her book Mrs. Dalloway, and in 2001 when an editor (Meryl Streep) works with the housewife's son now grown and a poet/writer (Ed Harris).  It is about suicidal feelings.

A special part is the acting Julianne Moore does when you can see behind her eyes the strange detachment of the decision as she goes through her expected last day.  Her affected small son experiences his mother's methodical behavior and can only knowingly feel something is terribly wrong while he's with her, and what it does to a child through what is not said by the less easily expressed awareness in the times of 1951. 


Virginia Woolf, thought to be manic-depressive who took her own life, was known to have terrible, incapacitating headaches. 


Not the most entertaining in some parts, but it lends insight.

My ECH's began at age 11 and am now 44 years old.

I remember when I was a teenager...going through horrific cycles and no meds to abort...no meds as a preventative...obviously no proper diagnosis of CH's...completely alone...completely alone in misery and agony...anti-social because all the other kids thought I was strange always with severe head pain...spontaneously leaving classrooms without permission...failing school grades...kicked off sports teams...kicked out of 2 middle schools...juvenile detention, etc., etc....needless to say...life was horrible as a teenage CH'er and I was often contemplating suicide although I never tried it.

Yesterday I was cleaning out my garage as the Las Vegas weather has finally begun to cool off and I have some extra time to go though my hoarding of boxes that collect nothing but dust, spiders and dead cockroaches.

I found my daily journal from those teenage years in a box marked "Personal", here is an excerpt from my journal of what I wrote about CH's at age 13...
"Death is a gift when torture is involved!"

I've never forgotten this quote of mine from me as a 13 year old, as it always comes to mind every day of every cycle; yet I have miraculously never attempted suicide.

When I read this page yesterday for the 1st time in 31 years since I wrote it, it made me cry out of sadness and happiness...feeling sorry for myself as a teenager, empathizing why CH'ers would consider suicide and how proud I am of myself to have survived through those years without medical help.

Thankfully I am still here  ;)

-Gregg in Las Vegas

Gregg!
So wonderful to hear of your winning the fight on suicide thoughts! You are POWERFUL and a strong man and I have so much respect for your pain and suffering as I understand how you feel.  I started at age 15 and was Chronic right away . They never let up for another 16 years 10 to 20 CH's daily. Then I had a 3 year remission and then they came back with a vengeance! I also had no preventative medication for 25 years. I have been Chronic ever since and I am 53 now and I battle with thoughts on suicide all to often but I too have never taken that final step because of my CH.  I believe I never will because I am so used to fighting and winning. Life is beautiful and well worth the extreme fight that we share. I have to say though that I completely understand how someone would take there own life because of how horrifically painful this affliction is. That is obviously something Mr. Carter Lee has not experienced and no one and I truly mean no one can understand this incredible Insane amount of pain as we do and all that truly suffer from Cluster Headaches. I have a deep feeling of your pain and suffering and am so proud of you to have made it through all those years!! I am here for you my friend. Keep Fightin the Good Fight You are in my thoughts and prayers Gregg!.....Johnny :)

Well that certainly got my BP up.

Having lost a 15 year old neice to suicide after she read a "nutcase's" book on suicide (this guy proclaimed himself a renowned suicideologist). She read the book (passed out at her school) and put a gun in her mouth and pulled the tigger. I think he shold have been arrested for MURDER! But that was just my opinion.

I've also lost friends to suicide from CH and my only thought at the time was "he's not suffering any more." People who've not experienced this pain CANNOT understand our desperation during a cycle (esp if you're chronic).

And, yes, we've ALL thought about it.. but to say the things he did.. well, the guy needs to be run out of town on a rail - tarred and feathered!

Most everybody here who *knows* me, knows how I feel about suicide.  I have one response for Mr. Lee, "Kiss my ass you arrogant bastard".

AMEN BARBARA!!
So sorry to hear about your niece,that's a terrible tragedy....Johnny

That arrogant Bastard....  I had two people at the Conference that made statements to me questioning his CH claim... because of things that he said... But I just hunched my shoulders and never thought about it again until today...

But had I known then, what I know now... .. I'm just saying... >:( [smiley=bash.gif] [smiley=angry.gif]

This will probably get me banned, but please keep an open mind.

It boils down to=  If life is a living hell, Why keep it up. 

Each person has their own threshold.  For me that threshold is verrrryyy damn high.  I will put up with a lot.  I could probably take seven or eight bullets before I fall.  These headaches make puncture wound pain seem like a minor nuisance.

But !!!  There comes a point when a person has to make that decision.  If the pain is so bad, ((Unbearable)) What is the point of going on if it is just going to lead to more hell.

I think family and friends also need to realize that fact of suicide as well. 

Is there really any reason to mourne the death of a person that actively choses it to end his hell.  Celebrate the happy moments that you had with them.

I am an avowed atheist so the BS religious implications don't apply to my logic, But??

If death is less painful than life, Is it worth considering?

Like I said folks.  I have a pain threshold beyond belief and will almost certainly never consider that option.  But, how can you speak for others that have to weigh that decision! :'(

Life s a personal choice as is death.

I think I disagree with you entirely, Eric, but you've stated your case beautifully.

A good job well done.

B.

TOMORROW, TOMORROW... i LOVE YA, TOMORROW, YOUR ONLY A DAY AAAAAWAY!!!

COACH BILL

AussieBrian wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2012 at 8:19pm:

I think I disagree with you entirely, Eric, but you've stated your case beautifully. A good job well done. B.

Agree Brian.  As the old CCR song says, *someday never comes*.

this...one of those thought provoking discussions that remind me why I'm here....

my belief...personal reflection here....if you are a clusterhead and you have not, at least,  contemplated suicide...you aint a clusterhead....

KEY word..."contemplated"....sometimes this incredible pain "seems" to leave no out...but a remarkable attribute of ch folks....DAMNED if we gonna let the beast win. For those who do...the sadness is beyond reckoning....

..it's been said...and one of my core beliefs: "suicide-a permanent solution to a TEMPORARY problem"

30 year ch vet here...and I STILL consider it a TEMPORARY condition...where there's hope there's life......or what's a ch.com for?

coach bill's post made me smile...and with a subject like this...that's somthin'....

Best,

Jon

With CCH, I've found myself contemplating suicide on a disturbingly regular basis. What makes me feel okay is that, when I'm thinking about suicide, it's just in an academic, "what if" sort of way. As in, "if I killed myself, this would not hurt anymore." But that thought is consistently followed up by, "But Iris [my 4 y/o niece] would be so hurt. I can't do that."

I havent been on the site long enough to know anything about carter lee and really have not had ch for years and years like alot of you thank the Lord just went through my first cycle ever but I found out just a couple weeks ago I also have hemicranial continua I say just went through because I have had no attacks in two nights now and the other is a little better so yea for me, But back to the topic many nights I thought and most times after reading somethin on here this sucks no way can I handle this for the next 30 or so years the kids are grown wife will be ok alot better than haveing to deal with me going through this so yea I thought about it even tried it had me a handful of pills but belive it or not my dog saved me. so after that I really tried to find help and found that on here also. its good to know there are others that are going throuh this also and theres folks that will talk to you and understand

When I was five, I took a certain knife from the kitchen and put in on my dresser.  I'm going to kill myself I thought.  Kindergarten wasn't going well standin in the corner everyday and parents were too overbearing.  It laid there a day or two until I went in to use it.  Putting it to my chest and thinking, "They'll be sorry they treated me bad." 

Stopping to think, no, nobody would miss me, I was five and a problem, that's how I'd be forgotten or shortly remembered, as trouble, their life would be unaffected.  Having the knife to my chest I put it down, but left it there, maybe another time. 

My seven year old sister came into the room and asked what the kitchen knife was doing there.  I said I was going to kill myself, but not now, I'm leaving it there.  It seemed casual talk. 

Going back in my bedroom later I noticed the knife was gone.  I went to the kitchen drawer and it wasn't there either. 

About two years later I found the knife hidden in the back of another kitchen drawer, my sister had hid it.  I looked at it and thought and remembered.  It was a small gesture, but there was someone didn't want me to kill myself.  I assessed how I felt at that point and thought I might bear now.  It never became a thought again. 

I cannot remember a time when I haven't been a problem to someone, somewhere, at any time my entire life.  It's something to bear inside and at times heavy, but yet unrealizing.  In the last 32 years my girlfriend has beared me to points of disfunctional, and as a voluntary burden when she's had much of her own.  What an example.  It keeps me enthralled, I can only aspire to be that resilient someday.

Bearing self-feelings can be tough, but give yourself the time to learn from others who carry the same load or have more.