Hello all,

New member from Canada, here. Age 49, have had CH for about 5 years. While looking up some information online, I stumbled upon a post in the old CH forum, which lead me here eventually. The post was about the relationship between fevers and CH, but it left me wanting because it dated back to 2006.

So what's the difference, might you ask? Well back in 2006, I don't believe research had yet established the hypothalamus as the most probable source of CH. And though I know it has yet to be proven, most CH-specialized neurologists and researchers have accepted this theory and work with it in mind.

So we already know part of the hypothalamus is in charge of our body's circadian rhythm (i.e. our biological clock) and we also know it is responsible for regulating body temperature. It is, therefore, in charge of "generating" fevers whenever it feels your body needs to, sometimes because of infection, other times, seemingly, just because it can!

Stay with me, I'm getting to my question eventually.

Ever since early childhood, I have ben prone to very high, very intense fevers, whether they be from a common cold, the flu, or even from high fatigue. These fevers have occurred a few times a year, for as long as I can remember. First time my wife witnessed one, she nearly panicked because I was red hot, trembling, sweating to a level she'd never witnessed before. But oddly enough, the beneficial side-effects of those fevers is that never once in m life have I been ill for long. It feels as though my body generates so much heat that it literally burns away whatever infectious bug is trying to invade it. So in a sense, I feel relatively blessed to have what my wife affectionately calls - since that first episode - my screwed up hypothalamus.

So now comes the question. Does anyone know of any research that may establish a link between having CH and having a history of fevers? Mind you, I'm not so much interested in the relationship between fevers and CH (i.e. whether one may cause the other) because judging from online comments on the old CH Board, no direct causal link could be established. Rather, I am interested in finding out if any research has been done in establishing early fevers as a one of the known risk factors of CH, like being male or being a smoker.

So if anyone has heard of any research into that, I'd be interested in finding out more about it.

Thanks. Oh, and sorry for the long-winded question... :P

A search of the largest medical library in the U.S. produced zero hits on the question of a relationship between Cluster and fever.

Interesting.......as a child I had the high fevers with the accompanying hallucinations......

Joe

@Bob: yep, I tried doing my homework as best I could before posting the question here, but couldn't find anthing of note (other, of course, than finding this forum and subscribing to it).

@Guiseppi: thanks, perhaps having others post about a similar history may help us establish some kind of link - albeit unscientific - between early fevers and CH. After all, most of the interesting celestial objects known in the visible sky were discovered by amateur astronomers... so maybe we're amateur neurologists!

Not to pour cold water on your feverish body, but even when I'm sick, I don't run a fever. And I'm chronic. Just because the hypothalamus performs more than one function it doesn't mean all those functions are related to one disease: CHs. I could see how a fever might go ahead and kick of an episode or even a cycle, though. blessings. lance

I Think the Hypothalamus is the  [smiley=sgrin.gif]
home address.

Hoppy.

I arrived at my Doctors office 7 years ago with my first cluster headaches. He did blood work and found I was in the early stages of lyme disease. I think a tick bite set mine off or maybe just coincidence. I'm glad He found the lyme at any rate.  :)

Headbanger's report is yet another example of why doing self-diagnosis and self-treatment can be misleading, even threatening to health.

Medical literature continues to provide more examples of how easy it is to be mislead.


Link to: cluster-LIKE headache:

IN: "Medications, Treatments, Therapies --> "Important Topics" --> "Cluster-LIKE headache"

Or it could be interpreted as Headbanger having both CH and Lyme disease, with the Lyme being picked up as a result of the blood tests done as part of the CH diagnostic work up.

I expect the double combination will have resulted in some confusion of symptoms that didn't quite fit, which will have shown the value of working with good, experienced medical professionals.

Hey Filipus,

Good question. A link between having CH and having a history of fevers may not be all that far fetched if you follow my logic below.

Since posting about the anti-inflammatory regimen with 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 in December of 2010, we've collected user comments from several hundred CH'ers using this regimen.

80% of the CH'ers who start and stay on this regimen experience a significant reduction in the frequency, severity and duration of their CH. 75% experience pain free days and 60% remain pain free.

This is a safe and healthy vitamin and mineral regimen.  There have been no adverse events reported that required medical attention.

The shear volume of empirical data collected to date suggest a causal relationship between a vitamin D3 deficiency and cluster headache.

Finding what prevents the other 20% from responding to this regimen has been an ongoing effort.  I spent a good bit of time researching the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of vitamin D3, (what the body does to vitamin D3 and what it does to the body).  I also spoke with several endocrinologists expert in treating vitamin D3 deficiencies. 

What emerged was that any insufficiency of the GI tract, liver, kidneys, thyroid, parathyroid and pancreas  could easily prevent the absorption and metabolism of vitamin D3. 

Data from the online survey of 110 CH'ers using this regimen suggested another possible spoiler that could prevent vitamin D3 from preventing CH...  inflammation associated with viral and bacterial infections, i.e., upper and lower respiratory infections like colds and flu.  Allergic reactions are also suspect.

It turns out that our immune system's T-Cells are major consumers of the vitamin D3 metabolites, 25(OH)D, and the hormonally active metabolite, 1,25(OH)2D3. 

During viral and bacterial infections, (they're usually accompanied by fever), T-Cells sensitized by the infection source and stimulated by vitamin D3, multiply rapidly into an army of Pack Man-like cells roaming around the body gobbling up the offending virus/bacteria and any infected cells.   

Connecting the dots... a high white blood cell count usually indicates some kind of infection...

Accordingly... getting back to your question...  there is a possible relationship between CH and a history fever...  However, if you follow the discussion above, it should be clear that fever is a symptom and not the cause of CH, but it is indirectly related.

It's the viral or bacterial infection and the immune response they trigger, not the fever that consumes available vitamin D3 metabolites.  When 25(OH)D reserves are depleted by the immune system's response to these infections, if you're predisposed to cluster headaches...  you get them.

There are a few takeaways from this discussion:  If you have cluster headaches, see your PCP for a lab test for 25(OH)D.  The normal reference range for this lab test is 30 to 100 ng/mL, (75 to 250 nmol/L).

If the results come back below 60 ng/mL, (150 nmol/L) start vitamin D3 therapy by taking the anti-inflammatory regimen...  There's an 80% probability you'll have a favorable response.

You can find all you need to know about this regimen at the following link:

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE

Response time to this regimen vary from 24 hours to as long as two months...  Over 50% of CH'ers respond in the first week after starting this regimen and 75% have responded by the end of the first month after starting. Stay on this regimen if you do respond and remember, it's only a preventative and not a cure.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Interesting. I had scarlet fever as a kid, have a history of high fevers and was hospitalized twice for them, last time I was 21, had a 106+, as recently as 6 years ago, ran a 104 for 5 days straight. You wonder.....

Firstly, Batch is on the money, as usual.
The D3 anti-inflammatory regimen results speak for themselves. Do try it, it works for many.

I found a few items that may be of interest...

Some may remember that old Chestnut, "Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients." One of the better papers to have been thrown around these parts, indeed. Blau's work has saved a few necks in CH with that paper. (Regular ECG/EKG now has emphasis!)

That paper appeared in Headache journal in 2004; Study by: Joseph N Blau; Hans O Engel

Although even older in research terms than the old 2006 posts the OP speaks of and not followed up on, Joseph N Blau has also published on body temp and Hypothalamic activation in CH. Perhaps hinting at at casual relationships between the two events...

1999: Joseph N Blau; Hans O Engel
Lancet 1999;354(9183):1001-2.

A new cluster headache precipitant: increased body heat.

Abstract
Exercise, a hot bath, or elevated environmental temperature provoked cluster headaches, within 1 h, in 75 out of 200 patients. This new observation accords with recognised precipitants--alcohol, histamine, and gyceryl trinitrate--perhaps via generalised vasodilatation or hypothalamic activation.

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Although I cannot locate any research linking early fevers and CH, I would suggest he would be the man to ask. His profile indicates that his specialist areas include:

Joseph Blau
Research Profile

Disorders
    Cluster Headache
    Migraine Disorders
    Chronic Disease

Chemicals & Drugs
    Verapamil
    Calcium Channel Blockers
    Vasodilator Agents

Physiology
    Body Temperature

Concepts & Ideas
    Comorbidity
    Drug Administration Schedule
    19th Century History
    Predictive Value of Tests
    20th Century History
    Drug Dose Response Relationship
    Retrospective Studies
    Treatment Outcome
    Time Factors

Phenomena
    Hot Temperature
    Recurrence

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This is not meant to show a particularly convincing body of evidence to support any link, casual or implied, between fever and CH. But perhaps a good jumping off point for further research if the OP is interested.

Also some very generalised summary information from WebMD (Definitely not a go-to resource for medical research...) on Blau's work with body temp and CH:

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A paper from the Lancet - Cluster headache and melatonin describes some relationships around regulation of core body temperature.

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One of the supporting citations makes for interesting consideration:

Homeostatic versus circadian effects of melatonin on core body temperature in humans.

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This is not exhaustive by any stretch, just a quick look.
Nor do I have a position on this. I would look into it further and provide more research, but I cannot obtain full copy of a couple of likely looking studies in The Lancet and Headache Journals, citing clinical observation on possible relationships between body temp, Hypothalamic activation and CH.

Cheers, Ben.

This also made me wonder about one thing that many people with CH have found is that either heat or cold can make a big difference, be it ice packs, hot shower / cold shower, vigourous exercise, etc.

Maybe there is something in this?

well, wouldn't you believe it.
early January was my big cycle time last year, we hit 40 deg Celsius.                                                                    I was tracking o.k only a few shadows, 6 months on the regime, so ive nearly weened off the verapamil, then the day before yesterday, out of the norm, 41 deg Celsius, followed by a 35 c yesterday, followed by 4 cluster hits last nite, where I had to take my first imagran in 6 months.
grrrrrrr.
high temps has proven to be my big trigger !!
so back on the verapamil, and im upping my d3 with a couple of loading doses tonight.
geeez
i so want to get off the verapamil, but everytime i try to, it comes back and bites me.  i was probably silly to do so coming up to a time of the year  normally the beast comes a tapping !!
its certainly bought back memories of the after effects that imigran gives you,   it washes me out.
wish ide gone ahead and got the oxygen as a back up now  !!!!   silly me.
  so yes     heat      it does it for me  !!

colin

my apologies, i posted that in the wrong place.

colin

I can only offer what I know from persona experience.
A fellow Canuck....eh

I had DBS and the elctrode was placed into my hypathalamus in my brain, at prest I have 2.7 volts firing at it and I have ongoing adjustments.

Ill explain the before and after surgery side affects because of the hypatahalamus.
First. My whole life I been the type of guy to work 12-18 hours a day doing whatever, sleep 3-5 hours and go again the very next day. Then I got sick. And dealt with the attacks. Again. Id run on little or no sleep.
Since the hypatha....controls circadium rythem,sex drive, hunger etc...alot has changed since surgery.
Also taking into account I am 41 now and can no longer be the firecracker I once was.
Since the last year 1 of my attacks even a mild one wipes me out completely. Kip 10s. I am literally useless for 24 hours. Now say vacuuming the house, cutting my lawn(which takes 10 min tops) and making dinner feels like a 40 hour shift at a factory I used to work at.
I am 110% completely fatigued now. I miss the old me.
I have had a 5 improvement from surgery. Maybe more but not sure. There was a point during my programming where the surgeon made adjustments that I was hungry 24/7. I could eat a large pizza and be starving after. Also prior to DBS. I used be a heavy sleeper. I have no issues falling asleep. Now I have a hard time staying as sleep.
Even after a bad attack in the middle of the night.
The programming with my hypathalamus is ongoing.
But you are right.It controls ALOT. My libido is down as well but then again I have added a c note to my weight.
Most days I am extrmely exhausted and could hit the sack by 6pm, 90% time Im in bed by 9-10pm.
I remember days of staying at my girlfriends until 2am and going to work for 7am and having attacks through the night.
I have accepted I am no longer what i was. No longer can do what I once did.
Perhaps there is some truth to the flu.
I think  a nuerologist/surgeon would best answer his question.