New CH.com Forum | |
http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1513283643 Message started by Mike NZ on Dec 14th, 2017 at 3:34pm |
Title: Re: New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) Post by AussieBrian on Dec 15th, 2017 at 4:26am
It goes back a long, long time but I used to get quite a lot of help from the ergotomines, mostly as a preventive but I was starting to wonder about them as a possible abortive as well.
This was until a neurologist chose to overdose me terribly on them and that's a road I could never recommend to any fellow ClusterHead. I'd really like to see more about this because any little advance in medical science can be a massive step forward for people like us. Onya, Mike. That was well spotted and thanks for passing it on. |
Title: Re: New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) Post by Genever on Dec 18th, 2017 at 7:27pm
I just saw a new doctor today and she mentioned that a new injectable drug will be coming out April or May of 2018. I’m not sure if it’s the one in this press release. She said it would be a once monthly injection. Intriguing, to say the least.
|
Title: Re: New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) Post by Mike NZ on Dec 19th, 2017 at 2:01am Genever wrote on Dec 18th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
There are some monoclonal antibody injections going through clinical trials which inhibit CGRP. START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to ![]() ![]() It is likely that this is what your GP is talking about since at least one is administered as a monthly injection. What is great is that there is research being done and the result is that there are more treatment options available. Time will tell for each just how effective they are, along with the actual costs, side effects, etc. |
Title: Re: New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) Post by Mike NZ on Dec 19th, 2017 at 8:02pm |
Title: Re: New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) Post by jon019 on Dec 20th, 2017 at 7:28pm
....to follow up on Mike's always informative posts...there is another monoclonal being researched...besides fremanezumab ....maybe already mentioned tho I could not find:
name of: erenumab comes from an article on WebMD.....this is supposedly the link...doesn't look right...but I used to smell fish for a living...technology stopped at the end of my nose..... Best Jon START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to ![]() ![]() |
Title: Re: New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) Post by Mike NZ on Dec 21st, 2017 at 12:36am
I'm not quite sure how many of these monoclonal antibody injections are being developed as it there are multiple announcements from multiple organizations which confuse things.
From Jon's point, this is well illustrated by the following text from his link: Quote:
I think translating this to English is something like - We don't know how migraines really work (or any other headache) but we know that CGRP is involved and when we do something to mess up how CGRP works there seems to be an improvement for some people some of the time. The other thing I love about clinical trials is that even people taking the placebo showed an improvement: Quote:
With the real medication only doing about twice as good as the placebo (i.e. no real medication). It is incredible how well placebos work, which is down to psychology, which shows things like larger pills work better than smaller pills, coloured pills work better than white pills and lots more. And from later in the trial: Quote:
This placebo works so well that again it is almost half as good as the real medication. It's also surprising that doing monthly injections is only 3% better than a one off, which seems to be an incredibly small improvement, so I suspect that there are other things at play here (wish I knew the answer!). What is good is the low risk of side effects (although this seems to potentially by limited to adult brains): Quote:
However it looks like this isn't a cheap option: Quote:
Nice find of the article Jon. |
Title: Re: New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) Post by jon019 on Dec 21st, 2017 at 2:02am
Placebo....fascinating subject!!!
My brother was a drug researcher....in his biz <33% placebo success was FAILURE....he claims at least 40% was expected................. Seems over the yrs...in the minimal research devoted to CH...placebo was NOT part of the trial. They didn't want folks to suffer w/o potential relief from the "real" thing. No official info on this...that's what I thought I've seen...dunno.... On little more personal note....been involved with a clinical trial of chemotherapy agents. It was made quite CLEAR..... ahead of time (and, btw, my own requirement).... that NO placebo would be involved. Treatment A or Treatment B...let's see what happens. Goin' on 3 yrs now....B worked.... Best Jon |
Title: Re: New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) Post by Mike NZ on Dec 21st, 2017 at 3:26pm
Jon - Does your brother have any recommended reading on placebo as it is such an incredibly fascinating subject? It shows how for just about any medical trial the body can heal itself based on it thinking that it will. Perhaps this is an indication of the power of positive thought?
Now most of the time the patient must not know they have been given a placebo for it to work. However for another medical issue I have, I was shown how to use mirror therapy, where you put a mirror between your feet so you don't see the injured foot, but you watch the reflection of your good foot. All the time you know it is a reflection, but at the subconscious level your brain doesn't know it is a reflection and it changes the pain sensitivity to match what it sees in the reflection. Quote:
This will be down to the ethics approval that must happen with any clinical trial. Given the level of pain associated with CH, it will not be considered ethical to deliberately expose CH patients to a placebo. The same will no doubt apply to other situations, like you getting treatment A or B too. Who knows if it was treatment B that did its magic or the placebo effect (if treatment B didn't actually help) or some combination. What matters is that the combination did amazing things for you. |
Title: Re: New CH injection to abort CHs (and migraines) Post by jon019 on Dec 21st, 2017 at 4:16pm
Jon - Does your brother have any recommended reading on placebo as it is such an incredibly fascinating subject? It shows how for just about any medical trial the body can heal itself based on it thinking that it will. Perhaps this is an indication of the power of positive thought?
I'll ask...he's at the in-laws playing poker over the holidays...so he usually ignores me for a while. Now most of the time the patient must not know they have been given a placebo for it to work. However for another medical issue I have, I was shown how to use mirror therapy, where you put a mirror between your feet so you don't see the injured foot, but you watch the reflection of your good foot. All the time you know it is a reflection, but at the subconscious level your brain doesn't know it is a reflection and it changes the pain sensitivity to match what it sees in the reflection. Like we both said...FASCINATING! I've never heard of this but it makes sense. Have always personally believed in 'placebo"...and really don't care how or if a drug works if my results are positive..... Quote: This will be down to the ethics approval that must happen with any clinical trial. Given the level of pain associated with CH, it will not be considered ethical to deliberately expose CH patients to a placebo. The same will no doubt apply to other situations, like you getting treatment A or B too. Yup...that makes sense too.......... Who knows if it was treatment B that did its magic or the placebo effect (if treatment B didn't actually help) or some combination. What matters is that the combination did amazing things for you. Was just into the cancer center for what I call my 6 month (used to be 3...hooray) lube and oil change. Treatment A was the "new and improved" (a modified version of Thalidomide...image that) which I was sorely disappointed NOT to get...sides of the trial being picked totally randomly. Treatment B was a slightly modified version of "old school". Spoke with the clinical study coordinator who was delighted to report that of dozens of patients, ONLY 1 has relapsed 30 months post treatment. Meaning...it didn't matter which side I was on for initial treatment. NOT to say both are equal.... as long term side effects (of which I have several) are critical to the evaluation of the study. They follow participants for 10 yrs....I hope to make it that long so they can be delighted again...even though they told me relapse was inevitable. Best Jon Edited for appearance.....and to add that part of the chemo involved a monoclonal antibody (different from those discussed in thread). SInce...perhaps coincidently my CH is mostly shadows and a rare hit. But then...maybe I've FINALLY aged out................... |
New CH.com Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.4! YaBB © 2000-2009. All Rights Reserved. |