I'm currently in my 3rd cluster in the last 5 years and it seems like the worst one (currently in 5th week).  I was prescribed Lithium and was on it for 2 weeks but was still having headaches so I took 5 days off and tried the magic mushroom treatment.  still had headaches so I went back on Lithium 2 days ago.  I also decided to stop drinking a week ago just to eliminate that as a possible trigger.  but from what I've read if alcohol is a trigger it will cause a headache soon after having a drink?  I drank several nights in a row earlier in my cycle and woudn't have a headache for days after, but then would have them again.  does this mean because I didn't have a headache within a day or 2 of drinking that alcohol isn't a trigger?

ALSO, does anyone know if avoiding triggers can end your cycle earlier?  or if continuing to use a trigger such as alcohol can prolong your cycle?

Good morning, Scott, and welcome to CH.com.

For what it's worth, here's how it works for me:

Alcohol is an inevitable trigger when I'm in cycle--but it triggers a single hit immediately subsequent to the use of alcohol.  For me, it only takes a swallow--take a sip, and blammo.  Aversive conditioning--didn't take long for me to decide not to drink when I'm in cycle.  I'd rather snack on gravel.

Everyone's a bit different, but I doubt whether having a drink will cause a cascade of events that results in a hit several days later, nor do I think that using alcohol will extend the length of a cycle.  I have nothing to back that up, however--simply a suspicion, and a certain amount of experience.  So alcohol in and of itself may not be a trigger for you.

However--why take the chance that you'll stack another hit on your head when you don't have to??  The stuff is a recognized trigger for many of us, and giving up the use of alcohol for a few weeks should not be a huge deal, unless there are other issues involved.  

The goal of getting through a cycle should be to make it as easy as possible.  It's never easy, but to me the math is very simple:  Anything that reduces the number of hits without prolonging the cycle itself is good.  Anything that increases the number of hits overall, or prolongs the cycle is bad.  

Plenty of time when the cycle is finished to enjoy a beer or two.

All the best,

George

Typically those who get triggered from alcohol know within an hour or 2 of drinking.  If you can drink and not get hit for a day or 2, it doesnt sound like alcohol is a trigger for you.

On another note, please tell me you stopped and started your lithium under the supervision of your doc.  Lithium, along with most drugs, is not one that you should start, stop or change doses unless you have a doctorate in doctorology, or supervision from your doc.

Be Careful!!!  The CH won't kill you, but some of the drugs can.

B$

Alcohol triggers me about an hour after I go to bed after having a few beers. Used to trigger me a lot quicker -- like right after drinking.

Without any prevents in my system I'll ge hit within about 30 minutes of ingesting alcohol. When I've been on lithium for a couple of weeks, I can get away with a drink or two. (Not the brightest move I know but it's a sense of power to tell the beast'in your face') It's possible the lithium helps you in the same way with blocking the CH.

As Monee Man says, be real careful with starting and stopping lithium without a doctors assistance. It's a high horsepower med and one you definitely wanna work closely with your doc on. Been my silver bullet for many many years now!

Guiseppi

I get hit about 30-45 mins after alcohol too. I've just quit altogether now because it's easier. I'd rather not drink than deal with the beast!

I read an article recently that stated lithium can block the effects of alcohol on a CH sufferer.  I used to be on lithium (300 mg three times a day) but it stopped helping after a month so I have since weaned off it. It also caused significant hair loss.

I was only a social drinker before but stopped altogether when I learned it can be a trigger during a cycle.  Well, on a stupid whim we were out with friends recently and I had a few drinks and was hit with the worst attack of CH in 36 hours I have ever had. That's enough for me!

Personally I would give up the alcohol for awhile....and see how you do.  It is my understanding it takes longer than a few days for these drugs to get out of your system completely, so stopping it a couple days, then drinking, may not be a great way to test the theory. But I won't be testing the waters again for a LONG time.....or maybe never!

One beef and 30 mins later I'm doing the dance.  I've learned the hard way to avoid it.

I've never been much of a drinker, so I gave it up after ch came along. I noticed pretty quickly after a sip of alcohol that the beast didn't like it a bit. So, for me, drinking alcohol - not even that one glass once a year - is not worth it.

Sanna

When not in cycle, I can drink socially with no problem.  During a cycle, it can take 30 minutes to a few hours to trigger a hit.  

Jeannie

Different triggers for diefferent folks. The smell of garlic will immediately give me a Kip5 or higher. Alcohol, at times can immediately give me a Kip5 or higher. I've been dealing with these headaches for 15 years and my body tells me what to do Sometimes I can handle a drink; other times I just don't "feel" like having one b/c I can tell it will trigger a bad kipper. I listen to my body and pay attention to what happens after I have done something. It has taken me years to get here, though. Make sense?
TomM

thank you for everyone's opinion on this.  I haven't had a CH since Sunday, only a few shadows, and I had some beers last night, probably about 6 or so and nothing so far, it's a day later now and only a few minor shadows.  I'm really hoping my cycle is over but I'm not sure if it's the Lithium that is preventing headaches or if I'm done.  I'm going to continue on the Lithium for a few more weeks just to make sure.

only med i have taken is elavil @ night...............every time i try to go off, iget hit.................i am aware,hardly anyone takes, but it is helping me........................trying again 2 go off...........night 2.............1st ever cycle started jan 30.....................alchohol does not trigger now/when on.......let's c what happens....................unfortunatly a bad time, cuz i work weekends.......but, gta try////////////////////// alcohol was a trigger prev.............2.5 mths no alcohol.....................and I DIDNT LOOSE A DAMN POUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY EX KEPT TELLIN ME I WUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO---- HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND ppppppppppppppppppSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.....................I AM NOT FAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LMAO

Only once have I ever had a known trigger and it was beer.

The effects were immediate and severe in that just looking at a golden coldie in the fridge was good for bad shadows, hearing Denzilla rip the top off a frothy chop meant a Kip5, and being close enough to savour that aroma proved the Kip Scale should go way beyong 10.

Fortunately it lasted only 11 days so world economies were only mildly affected, and though three local barmaids were temporarily unemployed the overtime they later received more than made up for it.

I once made the mistake of admitting publicly here that I can drink what I like, when I like, subject only to availability, but after the hate-mail I got in return you must forgive me for posting this anonymously.

Cheers and beers,

Author unknown.

When I was episodic, alcohol would trigger an immediate hit. One sip was all it took. When I became chronic, it didn't bother me anymore.

As Brian and some others said, be very careful starting and stopping your medication, especially lithium. Work with your doctor, the meds we take can be and are dangerous if not taken as prescribed.

I love havin' a beer with me mates as much as the next guy, but when I'm in cycle? No effing way! I learnt that the hard way when I was a lot younger, and I couldn't even down one single beer before an excruciating kip10 would grab me by the bollocks for the next 2 hours orso. I'll make up for the loss when I'm off the hook again.
Other triggers for me include: perfumes and deodorants, spicey middle eastern and greek foods (which I love and am addicted too! But not worth the hell that awaits me after), terpentine and similar fumes, daylight (that's a horror for I love the sun), and some minor threats not worth mentioning.

It depends.   I am chronic and have noticed that beer will sometimes trigger an attack almost immediately.  There are also times when it does nothing at all.  Having a bad cycle right now so I have avoided beers, but on Sunday went fishing in the Gulf of Mexico with some buddies. Hard not to fish and drink beer so I went armed with four vials of imitrex, drank enough beer to kill a horse and never had an attack.  I did get hit that night, but had quit drinking for some time.  I wish I could tell if there was a direct correlation.   I seem to get hit with or without the beer.  Best of luck.

MPMIII

When I was a practicing alcoholic, I'd get hit before I could finish a can of beer.

Out of cycle I could drink a fifth a day with no headach or than the hangover one.

I quit drinking 18 1/2 years ago and still get clusters.

Quote:

Fortunately it lasted only 11 days so world economies were only mildly affected, and though three local barmaids were temporarily unemployed the overtime they later received more than made up for it. I once made the mistake of admitting publicly here that I can drink what I like, when I like, subject only to availability, but after the hate-mail I got in return you must forgive me for posting this anonymously. Cheers and beers, Author unknown.

Aussie-man...Has anyone told you lately that they love you?  EVERY single post of yours always brings a smile to my face at the least.  A huge rip-roaring laugh at the most.   God...I love this man.  ;D

Alcohol is an interesting one and the professionals still do not fully understand why it triggers an attack in some cluster headache sufferers, particularly episodics.

I've been looking at the role of nitric oxide (NO) in primary headache for quite a while now.  Nitric oxide is an important (gaseous) signalling molecule in our bodies and amongst other things is responsible for neurotransmission, modulation of the hair growth cycle and even penile erections!  :o NO that originates from the vascular endothelium, neurons and macrophages (inflammatory cells) is also an important endogenous mediator of physiological vasodilation.

Vasodilators such as nitroglycerine (GTN) are converted to NO, which may be why they almost ubiquitously trigger an attack in CH when in cycle.  Alcohol also increases NO in the short term suggesting a similar triggering mechanism, but long term alcohol consumption can markedly reduce NO levels, which may help explain its potential as a prophylactic amongst some sufferers (although not recommended for obvious reasons).  An alcohol induced attack can also be notoriously difficult to treat, but strangely enough, there have been reports over the years of alcohol being used successfully as an abortive agent, again perhaps suggesting suppression of NO release in the longer term.

Why only certain types of alcoholic drinks trigger attacks for some is a mystery to me but it obviously suggests that some other mechanism or even multifactorial mechanisms may be involved.  Red wine is almost always a trigger for me, and although I can drink most white wine, for some reason the Chardonnay grape seems to be a trigger for me, within the hour.  Limey-bird insists on buying me Liebfraumilch or Piesporter Michelsberg, which although is pretty nasty tasting stuff, is fortunately OK for me on the head front.

I initially put the trigger factor down to higher levels of sulphites (US = sulfites) in some white wines compared to others, but this is at best spurious.  Most red wines also have high levels of sulphites, but more white wines have more added sulphites (as a preservative). Of course, it could just be the varying levels of tannins in wine too.

Another possibility is that the higher levels of procyanidins in some red wine (the stuff responsible for making it "good for your heart") may also affect some people's CH.  Procyanidins suppress the synthesis of a peptide called endothelin-1 that contricts blood vessels but it appears to be a complex issue.

Phew! I need a beer after all that.  Your shout I believe Brian 8-)

-Lee

LeeS wrote on Jun 6^th, 2008 at 10:02am:

...NO that originates from the vascular endothelium, neurons and macrophages (inflammatory cells) is also an important endogenous mediator of physiological vasodilation.... Phew! I need a beer after all that.  Your shout I believe Brian 8-) -Lee

I'll shout happily, mate, and it's drinks all round the moment you translate that lot into something I can underkerstumble.

I'm but an Aussie, speak English as a second language and learning American as quick as I can, but long words kerfugger me.

I recognised the word 'beer' so everything else you said must be fair dinkum.

Here's beer and cheers,

Brian down under.

Fair dinkum mate 8-)

NO = bad for the bonce but makes your pecker stand as proud as a mere cat standing on top of Ayers Rock.

Mine's a cold one; but none of that VB crap :)

-Lee

While in a cycle, a beer will trigger a KIP 6 about half the time.  Who's to say I wouldn't have had the KIP 6 anyway?  But I have noticed, whether or not I had the initial HA, I seem to be PF for 2-3 days after a good night drinking.  The hangover headache I might have is nothing compared to a CH.  So I could almost call alcohol a preventative in some ways.  Not sure why this happens but your post reminded me how I am PF for a couple days after drinking.

Cheers!?!

Brett