New CH.com Forum - Print Page

New CH.com Forum
http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Ritalin? http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1224168945 Message started by shelticon2 on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 10:55am

Title: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 10:55am

Hey All,

I've been reading around and have found some references to Ritalin (Methylphenidate) as an abortive and preventative course.

I am going to try it for a week or so. If I get some good results I'm going to talk to my Doc about getting a script.

Has any one had any experience with this?

Jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by vietvet2tours on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 11:41am

Link please.

Potter

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 12:51pm

Here's a few of the articles that I have found relating to this subject...

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

Jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by vietvet2tours on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 1:08pm

ABSTRACT

The authors report rapid cluster headache relief in a 43-year-old man with a 5-year history of refractory cluster headache. The patient described complete headache relief within 10 minutes of taking 10 mg of methylphenidate (Ritalin) when used to abort the onset of his headaches. Subsequently, a scheduled Ritalin dose taken each morning was sufficient to prevent his nightly headaches. In addition, 1 week of prophylactic methylphenidate therapy halted the series of cluster headaches. This is the first reported case of relief of cluster headaches with methylphenidate.

One guy one time.

Potter

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 1:16pm

True, but if we don't start somewhere. Where would we be?

Jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by vietvet2tours on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 1:27pm

Reported methylphenidate side effects include psychosis (abnormal thinking or hallucinations), difficulty sleeping, mood swings, mood changes, nervousness, stomach aches, diarrhea, headaches, decreased sex drive, lack of hunger (leading to weight loss), gum and skin bleeding, dry mouth, and irritability.[18]

Less common side effects include palpitations, high blood pressure and tachycardia

Get the oxygen.

Potter

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 1:40pm

Here's the link to the Topamax side effect page. I was going to cut and paste the side effects here but the list was too long. ( didn't want to clutter up the message board.)
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

Keep in mind these are just the side effects. Let us not forget the price you might have to pay if you come off this med improperly.

Grand Maul seizures oh yeah ... and... uh... death.

I think I'll take my chances with the Ritalin ( if it works)

By the way, are you the O2 salesman I've heard so much about?

Jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by vietvet2tours on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 1:45pm

shelticon2 wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 1:40pm:

Yep I'm the o2 pusher.

Potter

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by CH-HELL on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 2:11pm

Let us know how it works for you, I've been thinking about trying it also. All of the meds I take cause fatiuge and it seem the more fatiuged I am the more ch's I get so Ritalin sounds good to me too.
Good luck, Phil

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by vietvet2tours on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 2:28pm

wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 2:11pm:

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by CH-HELL on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 2:49pm

Come on Potter Im taking a pharmacy of drugs that dont work and I will try any thing. Check your pm's I do have o2 but it is not working for me at the moment. Phil [smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 3:37pm

Potter

It seems like the only answer that you have is "Get O2". While that is probably good advice, you must know that there is other good advice out there. For you, a "seasoned veteran" of CH, to proclaim that O2 "is the only answer" so frequently and so authoritatively is doing no one any good. On 10/07/08 in "RE: A new Preventive?" you stated. And I cut and paste

"Quit lookin and get the gawddamned o2."

People come here for help. To suggest O2, is a good thing. To demand O2 and nothing else helps them not. You state that you are 1500 days pain free ( again On 10/07/08 in "RE: A new Preventive?") Congrats BTW I wish you more of the same. However, maybe this 4+ years of being PF has distanced you from the pain. I, on the other hand, feel the pain every day. After three months of kp10+ attacks every two hours 24/7 I was about to quit my job and end it all. I'm over that now ( without the use of O2.... Thank you very much.). I'm sure this is why I am so passionate about this.
The pain that we feel is a symptom of an underlying cause. Putting a bandade on the symptom does not cure the cause. My goal is to find a cure or at least a reliable treatment for the underlying cause. No, I am NOT a doctor. But I have done more, for me, than 4 highly educated very expensive specialists. The Docs won't do it... The Pharma companies won't do it. ( not enough profit) so it is up to US to do it ourselves.

My post was to inquire if anyone had experience with Ritalin. You obviously haven't... so shut the F*** up... If you are not helping, you are hurting.

Before I put any meds in my body, whether prescribed by a Doc or not, I research the side effects and take responsibility for what I do. ( As we all should). I have to experiment on myself. ('cause my wife won't let me experiment on the kids...) Creating this post was one way that I used to help validate, or invalidate, my experiment.

To any that I may have offended, except Potter, I'm sorry...

Jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by vietvet2tours on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 4:03pm

Then jump in with both feet.

Potter

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by Jimi on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 4:52pm

Never heard of Ritalin helping clusters. But if you are willing to try, I am willing to hear how it worked for you. Keep us posted.

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by mezza on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 5:12pm

Hi Shelticon

I see you live in greensboro. I live in Mooresville, not too too far away. Have you looked on the OUCH website at the different recommended neuros in our area who have successfully treated patients with CH. Until I found my current Neuro- ( who is in winston salem by the way) I felt like I had nothing that worked other than my trusty imitrex nasal and even that was failing me. Went thru pred tapers, O2 ( didn't get a high enough flow rate to make a dent in the pain) and of course other meds that were just plain ineffective.
When I saw this current doc, he listened, he was innovative , and listens to what I have to say. He is open to trying ideas. He also knows about CH.

I haven't seen many postings regarding the success of ritalin. However, if it works for you , let us know

If you want to pm me and get this info let me know.

Kelly

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by bryn on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 5:23pm

I grew up on Ritalin as a kid and I still got em but I would try it again.
b.

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by Whipsmart on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 6:32pm

I take it for ADD. I've been on it since college. I typically don't get hit during the day, that's when I'm on my concerta (the long lasting version).

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by thebbz on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 7:11pm

Holy crap! Personal insults? Over defending ritalin as a treatment for CH. I dont think that is productive it it? To suggest anyone here is not atune to CH pain is just a bit over the edge. I know Potter, he means only to help. I thought that about you as well. I think we should all go to our respective corners and rethink why we are here. Lets look at ritalin:
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

And 02:
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

I dont see it here,
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

It's not news that stimulants abort and even prevent to some level. It is much more invasive than 02.02 works for alot of people, if it is administered properly. Failure of 02 often is rectified when used properly.
ADD patients do not generally get a stimulant effect from Ritalin. People that do not have ADD do. We all know that doctors perscribe just about anything to treat CH. The list of meds that are used for CH gets longer and longer. I would bet if it works one time or even two it will eventually fail just like the rest. Pick your own poison. I'll take 02 before anything.
all the best
thebb :-/

Dont take any perscription drug without prior consult with your doctor. ::)

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 11:16pm

Look, I didn't mean this to turn onto a pissing contest. I thought it was a simple question. I just wanted to know if anyone out there had any experience with Ritalin. That's it.

I know that I am new to this. I've only been chronic for 1 year now but it seems to me to tell someone, who is asking for help, to strap an O2 tank on their back and live with it seems a bit out of line. Suppose Jonas Salk ( polio Vaccine) or Edward Jenner ( smallpox vaccine) decided that we should just accept our plight. Where would we be now?

Yes, I know that CHs are not Polio or Smallpox. And that is exactly why it falls upon OUR shoulders to do something about CHs. 'Cause no one else is gonna.

My adgenda is to cure or find a reasonable treatment for my condition. Taking 15 pills each day, Things like Topamax, Depakote, Verapimil etc. is not a reasonable treatment for me. Carrying an O2 tank everywhere I go is not a reasonable treatment for me. Why ? you ask. Because I must work for a living and being strapped to an O2 tank is not something that I can do on my job. Also, as I have never tried O2, I do not know if it works for me anyway.. Not to mention those for whom O2 does not work or those who cannot get it..... And before anyone says " just get welders oxygen" One must take into account that welders O2 and medical or aviation grade O2 are not the same animal. Yes, they both come from the pure form of liquid oxygen (LOX) but the transfer method from one tank to the other is where the impurities get introduced. I know that some O2 guy will challenge me on that however this is not a point that I will argue.... you breathe what you want and I'll take what meds I want.

If you feel that I am wasting my time searching for a cure. Well it's my time to waste. But please do not hinder me in my research. I will get around to asking about O2. But I am not there yet.

I have not , nor will I ever, diagnose, treat or prescribe any treatment. Unless I find a medical degree in my sock drawer that I forgot I had. (I was on Topamax for a while so who knows what I've forgotten. )

I will, however, post any significant results ( if any) that I have had, for others to share with their "qualified" professional.

"Why can't we all just get along???"

Jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by vietvet2tours on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 11:47pm

shelticon2 wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 11:16pm:

Also, as I have never tried O2, I do not know if it works for me anyway.. Not to mention those for whom O2 does not work or those who cannot get it..... And before anyone says " just get welders oxygen" One must take into account that welders O2 and medical or aviation grade O2 are not the same animal. Yes, they both come from the pure form of liquid oxygen (LOX) but the transfer method from one tank to the other is where the impurities get introduced. I know that some O2 guy will challenge me on that however this is not a point that I will argue.... you breathe what you want and I'll take what meds I want.

Guess that says it all, just gimme a pill that will make me all better.

Potter

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by George_J on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 12:53am

See:

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

Also:

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

There are probably others, but I got tired of looking for them.

See the cluster survey at the left as well.

Best,

George

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 7:26am

George,

Thank you..... This is good stuff.

The kind that I've been looking for.

Thanks for putting in the effort. That's why I rely on those of you who have been around ( CHs) for a while, you know how to find the stuff I can't.

PFDs to all

jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by vietvet2tours on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 10:07am

Potter wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 11:47pm:

[quote author=203B363F273A303C3D61530 link=1224168945/0#18 date=1224213412] Also, as I have never tried O2, I do not know if it works for me anyway.. Not to mention those for whom O2 does not work or those who cannot get it..... And before anyone says " just get welders oxygen" One must take into account that welders O2 and medical or aviation grade O2 are not the same animal. Yes, they both come from the pure form of liquid oxygen (LOX) but the transfer method from one tank to the other is where the impurities get introduced. I know that some O2 guy will challenge me on that however this is not a point that I will argue.... you breathe what you want and I'll take what meds I want.

Ignorance must be blissful

Potter

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by kevmd on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 10:42am

Hey Jim
I support your decision to try ritalin. Let me say a few things about 02 if you don't mind. First, o2 is a commitment. Having the right equipment, getting tanks refilled, taking it everywhere you go....etc
How about getting it just for home use? Not only does it relieve the pain, but the sense of security knowing you do not have to go through a full blown attack is priceless. It gives you some of your life back.
I use welders with no effects whatsoever.

I agree and support everyone's quest to be pain free and find a preventative that actually prevents these things. But we need a full arsenal to beat this thing down.
Good luck finding something. I really mean that. But guess what, (in a polite tone) get yourself some dam O2 ;)

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 12:12pm

Kevmd

Thanks ... I appreciate your support. and I respect the cordialness of your answer.

If I may, please let me fill you in on where I am at with CHs and where I am trying to go.

By Dec '07 I had been having KP10+ Chs every 2 hours 24/7 for 3 months. I was suicidal. With the help of my local Headache Center ( Verapimil mostly) I was lifted out of that "badness". I was still having KP7s and KP8s 6 to 8 times a day. My Neuro Docs were frustrated... They had me on 15 pills per day of just about anything that you can imagine. Sometimes, I felt that they were just throwing darts at a wall to determine what to put me on next.....Mind you they never took me off anything.. after 4 months I was not any better.

I quit going to the HA docs. Took myself off of all my meds and went at it on my own. I kept my GP 'cause I've been with him for 20 years now and he listens to me.

After a brief research, and trial and error period. I found some meds that worked for me. I discussed this with my GP and he ran his tests then prescribed what I needed. I then researched the med and after a couple of months was able to replace it with a modification in my diet.

That leads me to where I am now. ( pretty successfull, thus far, I think) . I now have minor shadows throughout the day, a KP3 or KP4 hit between 4:00pm and 5:00pm and sometimes a KP3 hit around 9:00pm. Nothing during the night. I sleep like a baby.

What I am trying to do is get rid of the shadows and the few hits that I still have.( with meds of some kind). Then work my way off of the meds. Painfree, Drug free, and no O2 tank to haul around with me.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against O2. As a matter of fact I breathe it everyday. ( Except I mix mine with a few other inert gasses and call it air) I admit that back in the bad ol' days of Dec '07 I'm sure that I could have used some.... But I had none.

Ambitious quest? Well maybe but I am an ambitious person. I want nothing from no one, except maybe a little info here and there. I DO appreciate the support that I receive from the majority of folks on this board.

I accept you comments as long as they are respectful, and if they are not..... well.... you know.

Thanks for tolerating my longwindedness.

PFD to all

Jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by Kodiak on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 11:21pm

Jim-

Can you share the med medley and change in diet that has worked for you? I am lucky enough to only get them in the evening, where I can find an ice pack and grab the O2 tank and whisk them away within 5-10 minutes, but the prospect of being headache free...

I would do just about anything to get myself to the shadows, not that they are pleasant, but they may not wake me 7 times a night

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by George_J on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 1:38am

Extracted from the "cluster survey" to the left:

Best PREVENTATIVE method
Ritalin 22 0%
Prednisone 1093 9%
Verapamil 902 7%
Depakote 126 1%
Sansert 252 2%
Lithium 240 1%
Elavil 118 0%
Lots of water 164 1%
Combo of treatments 574 4%
Other 1539 12%
Nothing works 5590 46%

Second best PREVENTATIVE method
Ritalin 16 0%
Prednisone 339 2%
Verapamil 424 3%
Depakote 80 0%
Sansert 130 1%
Lithium 163 1%
Elavil 73 0%
Lots of water 104 0%
Combo of treatments 621 5%
Other 1365 11%
Nothing else works 6391 53%

Best,

George

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 3:00am

Way back in the bad ol' days of my CHs ..Dec '07.. Before I discovered this wonderful forum. I discovered, by accident, that food can trigger these headaches. From that point on I kept a journal. I wrote down everything that I ate or drank and the time I ate it. Any meds I took and the time that I took them. Any headaches that I had, the time that they occurred and their intensity and their durration. I did this for a while.

I then looked at the data and started seeing patterns. My headaches would come at the same times every day, as would my meals. I found that certain foods would trigger headaches and certian would not. I cut out foods that triggered CH and stuck to the few that didn't.
It occurred to me that, unfortunately, much of the meat we eat these days is full of growth hormones. I searched and found info on the effect of hormones on CHs. I found an article that stated CHs can be caused by low testosterone. To see if this was my case, I went to the nutrition store and got some Amidren*. Amidren is supposed to increase the T. level in aging men. I doubted that low T. was my problem because I had none of the other symptoms generally associated with low T. Besides I was only 44 years old, and didn't consider myself aging . But what the hell, I've tried everything else.
Up until that day, from the beginning of this whole Ch thing, I had an attack KP7-KP8 between 4pm and 5pm every day. That day (Saturday) I took 2 Amidren at 1:30pm. My 4pm Ch came but was only KP2-KP3. I was speachless. I continued on this track, no other meds, for a couple of months.
By this time I was documenting everything. I took my notes to my GP. He had never heard of such a thing, and was VERY skepticle. To satisify me, He ran tests.
My T. was low. he prescribed T. replacement therapy. And I've been on shadows and few KP2s and KP3s ever since.
I have since modified my diet to one that naturally increases T. and am off the prescription T.

In summary:

I steer clear of meats that have hormones or nitrates . Sugar in any form, white wine ( don't drink red... it's yukkie... can drink whiskey and beer though....Hmmm go figure), and about a thousand other things that are on my bad foods list. Trial and error seems to be the only way to make this list.
I eat a lot of Peanut Butter, nuts and other T. friendly foods.

*the ingredient that I was looking for when I found Amidren was tribulus terrestirs... I have tried other "male enhancement" products with this ingredient, but no other has worked.

My friendly advise (NOT medical advise) is get your T. levels checked. (Women, I don't know if you would need to check your T. levels or your Est. levels. The hypothalamus controls the pituitary which controls all hormones ) If you are going to your GP anyway, this shouldn't be a problem.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND. These are MY experiences. I believe that even though we all may have similar symptoms, that does not mean that we have the same problem. thus we may not respond to the same treatment.

Bumps, bruises and broken bones can be caused by a car accident or a fall off of the roof......Same symptoms, different cause.

PFDs to all Clusterheads and their Cluster families

Jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by Pixie-elf on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 3:07am

shelticon2 wrote on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 3:00am:

I actually did ask my Neurologist if my Nuvaring/Birth control could be causing this. He informed me that no, Estrogen played no part in the cluster headaches. I did keep a check on the clusters, and had the same number during my menstral cycle as any other time of the month... It IS an idea though...

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by shelticon2 on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 2:52pm

Pixie-elf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2008 at 3:07am:

With all due respect to your Neurologist, not one of my 3 Neurologists even considered low T. as a possibility.

Remember, the hypothalumus controls the pituitary and the pituitary controls the hormones.

here is an interesting link..
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

END PRINTPAGE

If your doctor list is as extensive as mine, adding an Endocrinologist probably wouldn't hurt.

Best of luck to you and your family.

PFDs to All

Jim

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by Whipsmart on Oct 19^th, 2008 at 1:15am

kevmd wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 10:42am:

Ritalin is also a commitment. For any form of the drug, you need a hand written prescription each month. There are no refills. It's a class I drug and has a few extra restrictions.

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by [johnny] on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 6:42pm

shelticon2 wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 11:16pm:

Look, I didn't mean this to turn onto a pissing contest

don't feel bad. thats easy to do on this board. i didn't follow any of the links posted here but i will say this. i took Ritalin from the age of 8 to 11 twice daily. i was one of those unruly smart ass kids so they put me on some pills. anyways after i stopped taking Ritalin is when i started having ch. i dunno know. if you do decide to try Ritalin let us know if it works.

Title: Re: Ritalin?
Post by [johnny] on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 6:55pm

Potter wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 1:27pm:

sounds like chantex. it got got my wife to quit smoking but it did make turn her into a real cranky bitch. keep in mind jim for the vast majority of us o2 when properly used works the best. as far as abortives go it's the cats ass. also o2 doesn't interfere with other meds you might be taking. what ever you deside to do give it a few days to work and try not to overdue it in desperation.