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Message started by PlayDoh on May 29th, 2010 at 2:03pm

Title: Meditation and pain management
Post by PlayDoh on May 29th, 2010 at 2:03pm
Hi everyone,
So I'm amidst another cluster and I've been noticing how much better I 'manage' my pain, then I used to. Either that or my CH's are weaker. lol. Either way I know keeping relaxed, and avoiding becoming negative helps a lot.

Now, I'm not a granola-eating yoga-master, or a freak, but I do meditate. Rarely if I'm not in pain, but its vital I take a few moments each day to relax. I used to get Tension headaches, on top of, and after a CH, then a Stress-headache somewhere in between.  :'(

I have little advice to offer fellow sufferers, yet I'm sure lots of people could benefit from learning to "really" relax more. a.k.a meditate. I'm not suggesting using the posture, although I find good straight posture helps me.

Explaining how to meditate is easy, and doing it in ideal conditions is also easy. Yet finding stillness when your heads exploding isn't as natural.

What I find works, is focusing on my breathing and keeping my muscles relaxed. Shoulder and neck especially. Don't use words or try to "think" at all. Its harder then its sounds. If its impossible, use 1 word like "Black" or "nothing", and repeat it. Something that wont initiate a thought/distraction.

While in pain, I try to "disconnect" from myself/pain/body, by visualizing 2 orbs, if you will. I visualize the "me" orb moving just a little bit away from my "body" orb. I'm sure that sounds odd, but I'm just trying to be very descriptive.

Again, I'm not a Buddhist Monk, and I don't astroplane across another dimension. A lot of people think meditation is like yoga or something complicated. Really its just relaxing. I've seen videos of people thrashing around while in a CH, and although I can't feel their pain, I think the thrashing and moaning only makes things worse. Yet again, I can only speculate, and if it works for you, good on ya.

I also find staying positive helps, although again, its not easy at times. I remind myself that things could be worse, in so many ways. It helps when I start to feel sorry for myself, and question my own existence.  Or if I get really low and actually think about....... the Bullet cure.  :-[


Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by Guiseppi on May 29th, 2010 at 2:27pm
No question, a percentage of the pain we end up with is all the tension and fighting against the beast we do! Several others have posted of the benefits of remaining calm and as much as possible not fighting against it. Saves you that aching neck and back the next day from keeping it locked tight for 2 hours.

Joe

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by bonkers on May 29th, 2010 at 5:49pm
Hi PlayDoh,

No doubt that meditation could be very beneficial to cluster patients or to anyone suffering severe pain. The problem is, the only way for it to be truly effective is for the one meditating to focus on his pain; not the psycho-emotional reactions surrounding the pain but the actual, physical sensations of the pain itself. Nobody wants to do that.

Ron

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by bonkers on May 29th, 2010 at 5:51pm


Relaxation techniques are a whole different ball game.

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by PlayDoh on May 29th, 2010 at 7:39pm

bonkers wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 5:49pm:
Hi PlayDoh,
the only way for it to be truly effective is for the one meditating to focus on his pain; not the psycho-emotional reactions surrounding the pain but the actual, physical sensations of the pain itself. Nobody wants to do that.


I think I understand, since I used to find impossible to just sit there quietly. Without distractions, I found I just became completely focused on nothing but the raw pain.
It was a kin to standing in front of a siren and resist not covering your ears.

However I now find that I can, to a definite point, "Tune-out" the pain more with meditation. To me its like I 'contain' my pain and for that matter my entire physical sensations, then metaphorically 'step aside' from it. "step aside", describes the sensation difference I feel also, as its a step down, and never an elimination of the pain entirely.

This all sounds like some new-age spiritual stuff, but really all I'm describing is how 'inner-peace' alleviates some of my pain. I think its very beneficial since in the past I was causing myself more pain by frustration, tension and stress.

Undoubtedly your attitude will effect your meditation results. I used youtube and my girlfriend to learn how to meditate. "Learn" is the wrong word probably, since "Unlearn" was more appropriate. Meditation is about turning my Mach 3 brain in to stand-by for a bit, and losing myself by doing so.

Either way, I totally understand how meditation is the last thing to try for some, if not most. That was primarily my motive for suggesting it.

For me, learning that I could (sometimes) distract myself and abort a CH, taught me that I had some control. Psychosomatic, sub-consciously, or consciously I can effect my CH's, to a degree. If not, then simply the aftermath of my CH's.

For me, rather then becoming focused on my pain and/or exacerbate it, I seem to be able to find a measure of relief. A minor measure, usually.

Keeping my pain/CH's in their place is important for me also. As strong and tough as CH's are, I AM STRONGER! (haha, I just found my sig). Meditation helps me see my pain for what it is, and know that I am separate from it. Simple to say, but hard to Know when you just want to die from the agony.

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by bonkers on May 30th, 2010 at 1:35am
You are NOT separate from your pain. The movement (i.e. the imagined movement) away from your pain only increases your distress. Where do you suppose that you go when you "step aside" from your pain?

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by bejeeber on May 30th, 2010 at 2:32am
I have  a little different take on this.

I've been meditating daily for going on 30 years now. Well except for when I'm in a CH episode (!!)

It's very relaxing, of course, and therefore it ranks right up there with a nap for it's very high likelihood of TRIGGERING a CH for me (and I imagine for a lot of other CH folk who pretty much need to stay engaged as much as possible and avoid lulls, naps, etc. during an episode).

Now if someone is only prone to CH attacks during certain hours of the day, then I suppose it wouldn't be so risky in the "off" hours.

As far as meditating as a way of dealing with an attack that is full blown, I can see that, and I actually recall once being able to become detached from a crushing high kip blaster by doing so. It's just that I've been lucky enough, and hyper vigilant enough after learning a LOT here that I haven't had to experience full blown/full length attacks for awhile, so I guess that could explain why I'm so oriented towards avoiding triggers. Like ...unfortunately...meditation.




Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by Kate in Oz on May 30th, 2010 at 7:31am
I have to agree with you, trying to stay calm and relaxed makes a huge difference for me too!

During a hit (and I'm getting plenty of practice at the moment  :-/) I just keep breathing, acknowledge the pain - if that makes sense - and try to breath through it.  The pain is everything - there is no escape whatsoever - but breathing calmly is sooooo helpful.  I also rock gently with my face pressed into a hot water bottle.

I remember walking around, jumping, banging my head etc etc in the past and the anxiety and stress caused by that was terrible.  The pain increased beyond a doubt! 

It is definately worth trying.

Kate

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by Ginger S. on May 30th, 2010 at 10:01am

PlayDoh wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 7:39pm:

bonkers wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 5:49pm:
Hi PlayDoh,
the only way for it to be truly effective is for the one meditating to focus on his pain; not the psycho-emotional reactions surrounding the pain but the actual, physical sensations of the pain itself. Nobody wants to do that.


I think I understand, since I used to find impossible to just sit there quietly. Without distractions, I found I just became completely focused on nothing but the raw pain.
It was a kin to standing in front of a siren and resist not covering your ears.

However I now find that I can, to a definite point, "Tune-out" the pain more with meditation. To me its like I 'contain' my pain and for that matter my entire physical sensations, then metaphorically 'step aside' from it. "step aside", describes the sensation difference I feel also, as its a step down, and never an elimination of the pain entirely.

This all sounds like some new-age spiritual stuff, but really all I'm describing is how 'inner-peace' alleviates some of my pain. I think its very beneficial since in the past I was causing myself more pain by frustration, tension and stress.

Undoubtedly your attitude will effect your meditation results. I used youtube and my girlfriend to learn how to meditate. "Learn" is the wrong word probably, since "Unlearn" was more appropriate. Meditation is about turning my Mach 3 brain in to stand-by for a bit, and losing myself by doing so.

Either way, I totally understand how meditation is the last thing to try for some, if not most. That was primarily my motive for suggesting it.

For me, learning that I could (sometimes) distract myself and abort a CH, taught me that I had some control. Psychosomatic, sub-consciously, or consciously I can effect my CH's, to a degree. If not, then simply the aftermath of my CH's.

For me, rather then becoming focused on my pain and/or exacerbate it, I seem to be able to find a measure of relief. A minor measure, usually.

Keeping my pain/CH's in their place is important for me also. As strong and tough as CH's are, I AM STRONGER! (haha, I just found my sig). Meditation helps me see my pain for what it is, and know that I am separate from it. Simple to say, but hard to Know when you just want to die from the agony.


Hello Play Doh and Welcome to the board!

Mediation can be quite affective for many things My Dad has used it almost all his life for various things, from helping lower his blood pressure to avoiding illness. 

I am not as adept at meditation as he is and many others aren't as well.  It may be of help for others for you to post a few links to the information on YOU TUBE that you used to help learn to meditate and what ever tips your girlfriend gave you to use. 

For me at least learning to meditate has been quite difficult because I am a person who prefers to be in control of all aspects of their life (control freak about my own life not others lives... LOL) This may be why a CH hits my personality type so hard, talk about being out of control, CH Kip 10 or even a 5 will take what control you thought you had and chuck it right out the window. 

So, for myself as well as others who are willing to try just about anything to avoid a CH hit, please post what links and other information you may have pertaining to learning how to meditate.



Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by George on May 30th, 2010 at 10:09am
I think many of us come to something similar, no matter what we choose to call it. 

I went through a lot of cycles before CH.com existed, and when the known treatments for CH were few and ineffective.  In my experience, at least, some of those treatments not only did nothing, but actively made things worse.  I chose to confront the thing without medication or treatment of any kind.

Not something I recommend, but for me, I think it was the correct decision.

One of the consequences of that decision is that one has to learn some way to deal with a hit--to endure one, and get through to the other side.  Since there's nothing, really, that a person can do about the pain (CH affects the autonomic nervous system, and that's not under voluntary control), the only thing that can be controlled is the person's reaction to a hit.

See--I don't think we're like rabbits in a trap...  We know what is happening to us, and we can choose how we react to it.  We don't have to thrash and struggle and submit to swiftly rising panic--we can deliberately calm ourselves, relax as much as possible, and control our physical and psychological reactions to an attack.  It isn't easy, but it's certainly possible and desirable.  Panic makes things worse.  It increases the perception of pain and fear.  As the old science-fiction phrase has it, "fear is the mind-killer".   ;)

I see nothing mystical or otherworldly about this.  In fact, it's just about as physical is it gets.  It's not easy to do--every instinct screams against it--but it's well worth it.

Now that I use O2 with the new techniques to abort an individual attack, it's a whole new ballgame.  But I still use the things I learned about calming myself, relaxing, and not submitting to panic. 

Learning to endure an attack and get through it is just as important as any medication or treatment.  Whatever technique achieves that, no matter what we call it, is a valuable weapon in our arsenal.

Best wishes,

George   

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by PlayDoh on May 30th, 2010 at 3:27pm
Well said everyone, and thank you for the welcoming Ginger.

Heres a good meditation explanation/lesson.
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE

Heres a video you learn to meditate with.
START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE

DattatreyaSivaBaba  —  has lots of videos on youtube also.

I also agree that anyone who has suffered from CH's has learned immense coping skills, and some form of meditation/relaxation. Except, I'm afraid, children perhaps. It truly breaks my heart to hear that children get CH's, cause their suffering must be brutal.

Medicine is a powerful tool, but so is your mind. Unfortunately your mind can easily work against you, and bring you pain and suffering. Yet it can also be used to 'manage' or alleviate pain and suffering. This is where meditation has help me.

P.S - I would never presume to know what causes someone else distress or pain, or argue their own coping techniques with them.


Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by bonkers on May 30th, 2010 at 9:59pm

I apologize PlayDoh and I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm glad you've found a way to relieve your headaches. Maybe it will help others. Peace.


Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by Kate in Oz on May 31st, 2010 at 8:26am
For all that I said about keeping calm during hits.... let's be honest - it does get a little exhausting overtime.  That's why I'm such a happy camper tonight - the 02 was delivered this afternoon.  Woohoo!! 

Kate

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by Guiseppi on May 31st, 2010 at 9:34am
Now THAT'S great news Kate!

Joe

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by seaworthy on Jun 1st, 2010 at 7:26am

Quote:
Where do you suppose that you go when you "step aside" from your pain?


Vegas !

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by monty on Jun 3rd, 2010 at 3:22pm

bonkers wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 5:49pm:
Hi PlayDoh,

... The problem is, the only way for it to be truly effective is for the one meditating to focus on his pain; not the psycho-emotional reactions surrounding the pain but the actual, physical sensations of the pain itself.


Not sure about that, Ron. There are many types of meditation -  some (like Vipassana/awareness meditation) require focusing on what ever sensations are present, but others involve different mental exercises and those might (or might not) help with general pain management. For example, mantra meditation (perhaps "this will soon pass"), possibly with a metronome might have a calming effect. I have found that metta meditation has the greatest beneficial effects on my heart rate variability (a measure of autonomic nervous balance) as measured by a biofeedback device - metta uses words and imagery to invoke the compassion circuits of the brain and is rather different than what most people think of when the word 'meditation' is mentioned.

All of this for me is second string to a good program to prevent and abort using sleep hygeine and a variety of chemicals to intervene with the nervous system. For me, these are mostly 'natural' chemicals, but still chemical as I feel the main disturbance is chemical. 

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by thingfishp on Jun 20th, 2010 at 10:51am
Interesting stuff.  I have learned to remain calmer than I did during previous cycles and attacks, even during those exquisite Kip 9/10s.  I may be flinching and having little convulsions while sucking on the O2, but it's a less manic experience than it once was.  I have been wanting to learn meditation for some time; fortunately I have a brother-in-law/good friend who's helping me to get started.  My wife and I are going to try yoga again, as well.  This isn't new-agey stuff for us but a means to better breathing and better, more supple, muscle tone. And of course, relaxation.  We tried this once before, but someone hit Julie head-on about 3 weeks into the yoga classes.  The fractured sternum and arms effictively ended that.  But we're going to give it a go again.  Anything I can do to try to eliviate the severity and duration of these cycles, and not fall apart as we march into middle age, is a plus.  Good luck and PF days to all.

George

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by sandie99 on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 2:38am
PlayDoh,

I'm glad that meditation has helped you with dealing with ch. Thank you for sharing your experiences. :)

Before ch came into my life, I was doing a lot of yoga and I'm doing some asanas every now and then. I have meditated occasionally, but never during a hit.

I have posted in here in the past that I feel that yoga helps me deal with ch - for the reasons you mentioned, that calming effect. I feel that it helps, because it makes my life in general better in between hits, so I'm a bit stronger,when the pain comes.

Those few times I've meditated (well, I call them that!), my experiences have been good and positive ones. I have been planning to do that more often, in weekly and perhaps, one day, in daily basis. However, I am slightly worried about closing my eyes bit, because I always close my eyes when I meditate and my body may think that I'm taking a nap, which has been a trigger in the past.Any experiences about that, anyone?

I'm constantly searching for new things to try with ch and this has been an interesting thread.

PF days to us all,
Sanna




Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by black on Jun 24th, 2010 at 5:55pm
sometimes it helps me maintain a cold face as i call it even if it is hard to do.
leaving the face muscles relaxed while getting hit.not forcing the eye to look in different directions or open it more than the eye droop forces to do seems to lessen a bit the pain.but still not something too worth mentioning as still not fuctional...has nothing to do with meditation or stuff like that you are  talking about.

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by wimsey1 on Jun 25th, 2010 at 8:47am
Black wrote:
Quote:
still not something too worth mentioning as still not fuctional...has nothing to do with meditation or stuff like that you are  talking about


And here I thought it was just therapy you were down on. Meditation, too, it would seem. But honestly, sir, you just described some of the techniques that are requisite to meditation: voluntary muscular relaxation (facial or otherwise) and maintianing an introspective focus.

I think you are in a lot of pain, right now, judging by how you've posted. The battle is depleting, in so many ways. You're doing a good job and even if you are in disagreement with this and other interventions, you are finding ways to cope. Keep it up, my friend. And may you have pf days and nights! lance

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by black on Jun 25th, 2010 at 10:21am
nope it's not yoga as it has no body exercises and no meditation as i don't focus on breathing or try empty the thoughts.
i just try to to relax the face muscles while on hit not to react on pain, when and if i can,but still i focus on pain and my main thought is....mainly inner curses on the beast :D

therefore it's no meditation.

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by kika on Sep 5th, 2010 at 11:06pm
I have been trying to get myself into a place where the pain is not consuming 100% of my mental and physical energy during a hit. I used visualization and meditative practices during the ( natural) birth of my third daughter quite effectively. Clusters, however, cause a pain so intense and relentless that I have zero ability to focus myself enough to step away from it.

I would be interested to learn any techniques that you have found helpful.

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by Katherinecm on Sep 8th, 2010 at 12:27am

kika wrote on Sep 5th, 2010 at 11:06pm:
I have been trying to get myself into a place where the pain is not consuming 100% of my mental and physical energy during a hit. I used visualization and meditative practices during the ( natural) birth of my third daughter quite effectively. Clusters, however, cause a pain so intense and relentless that I have zero ability to focus myself enough to step away from it.

I would be interested to learn any techniques that you have found helpful.


While I wouldn't have described it as meditation,  I pretty much try and get very quiet and calm during a hit too.  I can't really think of a technique for this though.  It's a bit more like after a certain amount of hits your pain tolerance increases--what used to force me up and pacing or crying in fetal position on the floor I can usually sit through these days (okay, my hand is often on my eye, and this doesn't work for KIP8+). 

I then just wait it out, and for the most part my mind goes blank until the pain is gone.  Come to think of it is VERY much like vipassana meditation.  I did have an ex that was VERY into that but I never consciously decided this is what I'm going to do--over the years my response has just evolved to that.  I'm not sure if (other than the calmness lack of tension factor) it helps me deal with the pain as much as it helps me hide it from people, which I'm not sure is a healthy way to deal with this but the stoic thing is somewhat my personality.

There are a lot of online instructions for vipassana, and you can go to meditation retreats for free to learn about it if you desire.   This blog has a hilarious account of a failed attempt at a retreat  (warning:  I doubt everything on this blog is safe for work):  START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE


Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by MJ on Sep 8th, 2010 at 1:14am

bonkers wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 5:49pm:
No doubt that meditation could be very beneficial to cluster patients or to anyone suffering severe pain. The problem is, the only way for it to be truly effective is for the one meditating to focus on his pain; not the psycho-emotional reactions surrounding the pain but the actual, physical sensations of the pain itself. Nobody wants to do that.

Ron


This is the method I use when in the depths of all too frequent 10s.
My entire focus goes into the pain and it becomes allmost like a separation from the body. The pain converts to a different feeling but too often the interuption of reality slams it back front and center. Easier in the middle of the night than in the day when more distractions exist.

We all have our own special way of dealing with extreme pain and each is different.

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by Brew on Sep 8th, 2010 at 8:03am

Marc wrote on Sep 8th, 2010 at 7:59am:
I've been "driven" to places like that a few times by reaching point that I just couldn't take any more. It did indeed almost feel like I was able to step outside of the loop and look back in a more detached manner. An interesting experience to say the least.

It's my belief that this happens when our bodies really start pumping the endorphins.

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by Kevin_M on Sep 8th, 2010 at 8:33am

Marc wrote on Sep 8th, 2010 at 7:59am:
I've been "driven" to places like that a few times by reaching point that I just couldn't take any more. It did indeed almost feel like I was able to step outside of the loop and look back in a more detached manner. An interesting experience to say the least.

I didn't have any trouble with interruptions because there was nothing but me and the exquisite pain to focus on. Sitting here now trying to describe it makes it sound strange, but it was darn powerful at the time.


I can pretty much identify, Marc and MJ.  The experience has happened so many times, a second-by-second coping to endure eventually prevails somehow, and considering the intensity, could be considered sort of composed by some standards.  There can be momentary inexplicable easing from the worst, but no where near holding an entire hit at bay by constant meditation. 

Both were better than my description - kind of like trying to meditate diarrhea away.

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by kika on Sep 8th, 2010 at 10:03am

MJ wrote on Sep 8th, 2010 at 1:14am:

bonkers wrote on May 29th, 2010 at 5:49pm:
No doubt that meditation could be very beneficial to cluster patients or to anyone suffering severe pain. The problem is, the only way for it to be truly effective is for the one meditating to focus on his pain; not the psycho-emotional reactions surrounding the pain but the actual, physical sensations of the pain itself. Nobody wants to do that.

Ron


This is the method I use when in the depths of all too frequent 10s.
My entire focus goes into the pain and it becomes allmost like a separation from the body. The pain converts to a different feeling but too often the interuption of reality slams it back front and center.

We all have our own special way of dealing with extreme pain and each is different.


I sometimes feel guilty for needing recovery time from the hits, but they are so draning in every way possible that even when the pain is gone, I am still a bit shaken from the whole experience. I feel like once it's all over, I should snap back into the daily grind, but it's kinda like having come through a hurricane and acting as if nothing happened.

Not sure if this makes sense.

I often think that CHs would be the ultimate interrogation weapon.

Title: Re: Meditation and pain management
Post by Brew on Sep 8th, 2010 at 10:31am

Quote:
...but it's kinda like having come through a hurricane and acting as if nothing happened.

Or having just gotten off the phone with your health insurance customer service department....

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