My CH'er went to the doctor yesterday (his mistake was he went to a PCP rather than a headache specialist) and she tested him for D3 deficiency, and told him to stop taking it until he got his results because if he takes too much D3 it could be harmful as the excess is stored in your fat. He got his results and his D3 levels are normal, but she didn't really have an answer for him as to whether or not he should keep taking the vitamin regimen.

But he finally got a prescription for oxygen, though I don't know if the flow rate will be high enough. He will pick up the tank next week. I already got him the optimask from this site.

So any help or advice on D3 would be great...not trying to doubt anyone, I just want to double check on the safety of it. Like I said, this was a PCP, not a headache specialist, and she didn't really seem to know what she was talking about.

Wishing everyone and their supporters PF days.

-believer

I'd go to the meds section of this board, the link "123 pain free days and I think I know why". Batch has a LOT of tables and info regarding at what doses the D-3 does and doesn't work and what all it does. Start at the LAST Page of the thread as it's been running for a couple years and is lengthy.

If you still have any questions send a private message to Batch, or post a question directly to that thread and Batch will respond to you directly. He's just like that! ;)

My simple laymans understanding is it does absolutely no harm and doctors standard response to anythng they don't know is it's bad!

Joe

It can be dangerous - especially when you don't get enough Calcium and Magnesium.
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Hey Gizmo,

Wie geht es Ihnen? Was ist los?

You posted an interesting link on vitamin D3...  Yes, too much vitamin D3 can be harmful...  Consuming too much of anything can be harmful...  As I recall, a young woman drank a gallon of water in less than a day and died when she unfortunately took a foolish challenge made by a radio station...

The Wikipedia link you posted has some great information on vitamin D3, but you need to read the footnoted studies in order to place it in proper perspective.

As an example, the study on the Phamacokinetics of vitamin D toxicity concludes with the statement:

"Although current data support the viewpoint that the biomarker plasma 25(OH)D concentration must rise above 750 nmol/L to produce vitamin D toxicity, the more prudent upper limit of 250 nmol/L might be retained to ensure a wide safety margin."

25(OH)D serum concentrations this high would require a sustained vitamin D3 intake much greater than 50,000 IU/day for several months... 

We shoot for a very safe 25(OH)D serum concentration around 213 nmol/L (85 ng/mL) and that requires much lower maintenance doses of vitamin D3 between 10,000 and 20,000 IU/day.

We've also had a few CH'ers reach 25(OH)D serum concentrations over 200 ng/mL, (500 nmol/L) while under the supervision of their physicians with no indications of hypervitaminosis D or hypercalcemia... 

They were pain free the entire time... and there were no problems noted.

A condition called  hyperparathyroidism  can increase the metabolism of 25(OH)D into 1,25(OH)2D3 at much lower doses of vitamin D3...

Hyperparathyroidism is overactivity of the parathyroid glands resulting in excess production of parathyroid hormone (PTH).  This condition is most often associate with a tumor or "adenoma" on one of the 4 parathyroid glands located on the anterior of the thyroid gland.

As PTH is used by the kidneys to metabolize 25(OH)D into 1,25(OH)2D3, (calcitriol), an excess of PTH can result in too much calcitriol... and this can pull too much calcium from the gut resulting in a total calcium serum concentrations above the normal reference range.  This condition is called hypercalcemia and it's the primary indication of vitamin D3 intoxication.

Fortunately, hyperthyroidism is relatively easy to diagnose and treat surgically.

If you read through the information at the Vitamin D Wiki site at the following link, you'll see that hypovitaminosis D (not enough vitamin D3) is a far greater health risk:

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You can spend days reading through all the studies on vitamin D3 listed at this web site.  And if you do...  you'll have a more well rounded perspective on the use of the anti-inflammatory regimen with vitamin D3 as a cluster headache preventative.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Thank you for your responses! Definitely helped...and definitely making him take his D3 tonight!

Quote:

...and definitely making him take his D3 tonight!

You mean he doesn't want to take it himself?

Make sure its D3,Omegas,Magnesium and the other co-factors.
Also, have Batch help your CH'er with the O2. I just had a one on one with the man himself (Batch!) and a year ago when I tried oxygen, I did it Oh! so wrong!!! No wonder it didn't work!
After today, I am feeling very hopeful that my brain will be a happy camper again! Good luck!

I had a vit D deficiency, my level was so low, it was almost non-existent. I started on about 2000 units per day, along with calcium to help absorption, it took me about 8 months to get up to a level of 50. Normal is about 30.

Here is what my doc said about Vit D. You CAN take too much of it, and it stores in your bones. I currently am taking 11,500 units per day, along with 1200 units of calcium, plus my multivitamin, and large doses of B-12, and Vit B complex, which has a lot of B-6 in it.

You always want to see your doc, explain the Vit D theory. If you start taking it before a test, your level will be increased, and you won't get an accurate reading. It stays in your bones for a long time, and it builds up. Make sure you take the other supplements, they all work together.


Quote:

My simple laymans understanding is it does absolutely no harm and doctors standard response to anythng they don't know is it's bad!

Joe, be careful here.

purpleydog wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 11:36pm:

Here is what my doc said about Vit D. You CAN take too much of it, and it stores in your bones.

I think your doctor is a bit confused about where vitamin D is stored as it is fat soluble so bones are not really where it will be stored.

As a reference - Vitamin D3 Distribution and Status in the Body - Journal of the American College of Nutirition, Heaney et al:

Quote:

Results: Mean serum 25(OH)D in all studies combined was 45 nmol/L. At the level of vitamin D repletion represented by this concentration, total body vitamin D would be 14,665 IU for a 70 kg adult woman. 65% of this total was present as native cholecalciferol and 35% as 25(OH)D. Nearly three-quarters of the cholecalciferol was in fat, while 25(OH)D was more evenly distributed throughout the body (20% in muscle, 30% in serum, 35% in fat, and 15% in all other tissues). At the daily vitamin D consumption rates in these animals total body stores provided only a ∼7-day reserve.

Interesting to see how low a reserve we have.

For what the maximum D3 intake should be there seems to be a distinct lack of research. Some papers put the limit at 2000IU (which can be easily exceeded when sunbathing in under 20 minutes), so at 10,000IU and others at 40,000IU or higher.

This was a concern for me too but after a bit of reading, the risks, which are relatively low, were outweighed by the pain I experienced. Just continue your research and monitor your levels monthly. :)

believer88 wrote on Jan 19^th, 2013 at 8:14pm:

Thank you for your responses! Definitely helped...and definitely making him take his D3 tonight!

Hi. Pls update us. I started taking 1000iu 3 times a day. I'm much better :-)

Hey W7sg,

Based on data we've collected here at CH.com and from the online survey of CH'ers taking this regimen...  10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 is a very safe dose.  Not one report of vitamin D3 intoxication in over 3 years from over 500 CH'ers...

Of course it's prudent to get the lab test for 25(OH)D 30 days after starting this regimen at 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3...  and again 90 days after that to ensure your serum concentration of 25(OH)D is reaching a stable equilibrium around 80 ng/mL, (200 nmol/L).

Unfortunately too many physicians adhere to the Food and Nutrition Board (FNB) recommendations at the Institute of Medicine (IOM)...  Their recommendations for vitamin D3 dosing is 400 IU/day. This dose is far too low to do CH'ers any good much less treat a vitamin D3 deficiency... 

This shouldn't come as a surprise... the FNB "experts" are big government bureaucrats or academics who have never treated patients with vitamin D3 deficiencies.

If you want to read the gospel of vitamin D3... according to the leading experts in vitamin D3 therapy and clinical trials on same... click on the link below:

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This data was assembled by Henry Lahore... he is VitaminDWiki and all things vitamin D3.  Henry keeps web crawlers and spiders running 7/24 building indexes of the latest articles on vitamin D3 and all the cofactors including vitamin K2. 

The above link provides an excellent coverage of vitamin D3, vitamin K2 and how much we can safely take...

An excerpt from the above web page on the safety of supplementing with vitamin D3...

"According to Heaney, (For the record, I've been bouncing the anti-inflammatory regimen along with the results from the online survey of CH'ers using this regimen off Dr. Robert Heaney, MD for the last two years...), controlled metabolic studies with D3 found that dosages up to 50,000 IU per day for up to five months produced neither hypercalcemia nor hypercalciuria.

Hathcock et al could find no reported cases of vitamin D intoxication from daily intakes of 30,000 IU per day for extended periods, nor any intoxication from serum 25D levels up to 200 ng/mL. They concluded that a 10,000 IU daily intake should be the safe Tolerable Upper Intake Level (formally abbreviated UL) - five times the UL set by the U.S. government in 1997."

Hope this calms any angst...  Take care and take more vitamin D3 along with the rest of the cofactors.

V/R, Batch

Thx Batch. What are the rest of the cofactors?

Thx

w7sg,

Sorry...  I missed your question...

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I take the following brands to get the right mix of supplements and doses shown above.

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Edited to add:  Vitamin B 50 complex not shown.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

You left the calcium out of the picture..
:-*

Hey Barb,

You're right... Good catch...  No calcium citrate...  This represents the latest version of the regimen I'm taking. 

The Mature Multi replaces the calcium citrate...  It has 220 mg of calcium and just about the same formulation of the other cofactors as the calcium citrate plus 2500 IU of vitamin A (40% as Beta Carotene).

The very latest addition to this regimen includes three months of vitamin B 50 complex.  It replaces the vitamin B12 as it's already included in the B 50 complex.  This comes from Dr. Gominak, MD, a neurologist in Tyler, TX.

She's been using a very similar regimen for more than 6 years to treat patients with sleep disorders, neurological pain and migraine headaches.  The only significant difference is she includes three months of vitamin B 50...  As she is seeing a little higher efficacy and has lots of first hand clinical evidence... I thought it prudent to follow her suggestion.

I've updated the list of supplements shown below to reflect this latest change.

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The rational for updating the anti-inflammatory regimen is simple... Although the original list of supplements works quite well for most CH'ers, this latest version should work just as well for most of us and help the 20% who don't respond.

Hope this explains the update...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

So I need to change things up a little? Right?    :-*

Batch,

Regarding the anti-inflammatory regimen, do you take them all at once (ie., with your breakfast) or split them up throughout the day?

Thank you.

All at once with the largest meal of the day.  Vitamin D3 absorption can be as much as 50% higher taken this way than taken on an empty tummy.

Taking this regimen with food also lowers the possibility of a upset stomach due to the calcium, magnesium or Omega-3 fish oil.

Have you seen your PCP for the 25(OH)D lab test?  Knowing your serum concentration of 25(OH)D can help determine the optimum vitamin D3 dosing as well as having a better indication of a favorable response time.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

V/R, Batch