I am trying to understand whether my husband's recent diagnosis of atrial fibrillation is somehow related to CH.

Some details about his recent medical history:

•      developed episodic cluster headache condition in 2010, has suffered a yearly episode typically every three weeks in October (diagnosed by a neurologist at a US headache clinic)

•      summer 2014 had worst cluster headache episode to date, lasting from June 24 to Aug 20, with 1-3 attacks per evening/night

•      supplemented with Anti-inflammatory Regimen from July 21 to September 8

•      almost-daily heart symptoms started approximately August 25, diagnosed with atrial fibrillation Sep 30

•      he is getting stress testing and echocardiogram and bloodwork for further diagnosis

Normal blood pressure and resting heart rate. No medications. 45 years old. Previous smoker who drinks a lot of beer, but slim and no other cardiac risk factors.

It seems really odd to me that my husband would develop atrial fibrillation (AF) immediately after this atypical CH cycle. One interesting condition is that relaxing and sleeping seemed to be triggers for both CH and AF and they both happened at similar times of day. I am wondering if there is a common underlying cause of both?

Both conditions seem to be related to the autonomic nervous system. I found this really interesting article:

Imbalance of heart rate regulation in cluster headache as based on continuous 24-h recordings.
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Quote:

The data obtained confirmed the existence of a disordered chrono-organization in cluster headache (phase-shift of approximately 1 h of heart rate rhythm during the cluster period) together with a low heart rate variability and a higher occurrence of arrhythmias in cluster headache patients with right-sided pain. Differences were also observed in the cluster headache patients when headache free, excluding the pain itself as a reason for the abnormality. The chronobiological data point out a transient rhythmic dysfunction, while heart rate variability changes, mostly related either to the phase of the disease or to the site of pain, probably reflects a central, site-related, dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system in cluster headache.

Anyone have insights on this?

Feisty,

To my way of thinking... there is a relationship between cluster headache and atrial fibrillation...  Both medical conditions share a common theme...  deficiencies in essential nutrients - vitamins and minerals.

There is likely no disease in existence directly linked to a lack of a pharmaceutical agent, (prescription medication).  However, if you read through the literature on any of these same diseases, the majority are directly associated with vitamin and/or mineral deficiencies.

If you examine the drugs currently listed in the standards of care recommendations for the treatment of cluster headache, with the exception of melatonin and oxygen, the rest are patented chemicals, not found in human physiology.  At best, these drugs address the symptoms of cluster headache, but there is little evidence they address the underlying cause or causes.

The same goes for atrial fibrillation, (AF)...  Two types of standards of care suggested drugs are typically prescribed for AF.  Drugs that attempt to control heart rates.  They essentially CONVERT the heart back to a normal rhythm.  The second type of drugs are blood thinners like coumadin, (warfarin), a.k.a. rat poison.  These are prescribed to reduce clotting.

We've already observed that vitamin D3 and magnesium are proving effective in preventing cluster headache.  There are hundreds of articles linking AF to nutrient deficiencies...  I say articles as clinical trials and studies on the use of nutrient treatments for AF would never be funded...  by big pharma or the physicians they support.

See the following link for suggested AF treatments that don't involve prescription phamaceuticals.  See the following links for details:

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Take care and please keep us posted...

V/R, Batch

Yes, from my reading there definitely seems to be a common link of deficiencies of vitamins and minerals.

What I find odd in my husband's case, however, is that he developed AF after taking the Anti-inflammatory Regimen for a month. Presumably his nutrient status should have been quite good at that point? Unfortunately the Vitamin D3 level at the 28 day mark was botched by the lab so we will never know about that nutrient level at that point.

Thank you for the links Batch - I will review carefully.

The medical journal article whcih is cited does not discuss  AFib but notes a rhythm change only.

There are numberous conditions which can produce a rhythm change. Looks like a premature assumption has been made between Cluster and AFib.

Bob Johnson wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 1:19pm:

The medical journal article whcih is cited does not discuss  AFib but notes a rhythm change only. There are numberous conditions which can produce a rhythm change. Looks like a premature assumption has been made between Cluster and AFib.

When doing research, look out for a connection between CH and a change in the PR interval on an ECG trace which can happen with people using verapamil. This is a verapamil issue and not a result of the CH, although without CH people would be less likely to be using verapamil.

Bob Johnson wrote on Oct 5^th, 2014 at 1:19pm:

There are numberous conditions which can produce a rhythm change. Looks like a premature assumption has been made between Cluster and AFib.

I am not assuming anything, just trying to find a link. In my husband's case, new AFib out of the blue just days after the end of his worst cycle ever seems like an odd temporal relationship.

There are actually experimental vagal nerve stimulation treatments for both CH and AFib - it just has me wondering if there might be a common underlying cause to both in some cases - involving the autonomic nervous system.

Thanks for the comments.

A little update.

My husband was in remission for almost two years, and we think it was because of Batch's Anti-inflammatory Regimen.

Strangely, as soon as the cluster headaches stopped, the atrial fibrillation started. It's been on and off for almost two years. Husband was prescribed beta blockers but didn't think it prevented the AF, and made him feel weird. I am still convinced that the AF is being triggered by the vagus nerve. The AF was not due to lack of VitD or magnesium as he was getting it when his levels were good.

Anyway CH is baaaaaack  :-/ . Husband has been getting headaches every night for a week. Opposite side from where he had them before  :o . He insisted they were sinus headaches, but as they got worse and more predictable, I knew it was CH. Of course, Murphy's Law required that he fly to another country yesterday on a business trip that he couldn't cancel. He was suffering for 3 hours last night with no drugs or O2. Ugh.

Husband has had a few cysts that have gotten extremely swollen and infected the past few years - one in cheek, one in elbow, one in chin. The chin one was recent and required antibiotics - I suspect that the infection might have dropped his 25(OH)D levels to below his CH threshold? Also we had been a little less diligent about supplementing recently. I want to believe that because I am hoping that the loading doses of Batch's Regimen will put him back on track. It took about 3 or 4 weeks last time thought :( .

Of course we have no oxygen in the house. I'm in Canada and we didn't get any coverage for the equipment or supply last time - it was horrendously expensive and complicated  :-/ . The supplier Vitalaire also delivered us disgustingly dirty equipment and made many billing errors that were of course in their favour. I'm going to try to organize something with them (I don't think there's another supplier) before husband gets back from his trip.

feisty wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 8:51pm:

Anyway CH is baaaaaack  :-/ . Husband has been getting headaches every night for a week. Opposite side from where he had them before  :o . He insisted they were sinus headaches, but as they got worse and more predictable, I knew it was CH. Of course, Murphy's Law required that he fly to another country yesterday on a business trip that he couldn't cancel. He was suffering for 3 hours last night with no drugs or O2. Ugh.

Sorry to hear that his CHs have returned. You may well be correct about it being linked to using antibiotics as other people have had this happen too, with the use of D3 loading doses normally helping.

The changing of sides probably doesn't mean anything at all. Read about it being discussed in this topic - START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE.

Flying shouldn't stop him taking medication with him. I've flown multiple times internationally and have taken supplies of preventives (D3 and verapamil on different trips) plus sumatriptan injections (generic form of imitrex).

For his current trip he will almost certainly be able to find energy drinks (Red Bull is sold worldwide). He can also try cold or hot showers which many people have reported working well.

Where in the world has he gone and for how long?

Quote:

Strangely, as soon as the cluster headaches stopped, the atrial fibrillation started.

Sounds familiar to me...

I have CH, have had a major AF event and now take a beta blocker (Atenolol) for BP and heart rhythm problems caused by Verapamil (heart block) many years ago during a drug trial of Verapamil. I have right sided pain of 35+ years with no side-shift and have had a 24 hr holter monitor ECG conducted with no remarkable findings, but that is just one person. I also have sinus cysts, and like any other infection, they are an immune system consumer and rapidly draw on my D3 reserves and CH returns.

One thing to consider when using the regimen is serum Calcium level. Your clue is in the quote above.
Maybe when adequate 25(OH)D levels were reached, hypercalcemia was also reached, this happened to me.
I'm sure Batch can elaborate far more specifically than I, when he returns.

I did pass onto Batch a few years ago, a study that showed calcium supplementation can interfere with Beta Blockers and stop them from working. Unfortunately I cannot locate that 1970s study now. This happened to me and my heart rhythm suffered. I ceased calcium supplements, instead making up my calcium requirement through diet, which it turns out was already adequate up to RDI/RDA without calcium supplements.

When I was ramping up the regimen about 4 years ago, I became hypercalcemic. Hypercalcemia is not fun and wreaked havoc with my heart rhythm, landed me in hospital. It seems that when insufficient Magnesium is taken calcium may be pulled from bone at a rate greater than typical Osteoblast/Oteoclast activity, or bone turnover. Whether through supplementation or otherwise, if serum calcium levels are measured and found to be above normal range, I find the heart rhythm trouble can again begin for me.

Serum Calcium is a test I now routinely take alongside 25(OH)D levels, lest I should again run into heart trouble.
If my calcium level is too high, out of range, then it seems to do the same thing as calcium supplementation did, it interferes with the Atenolol I take and it becomes less effective, BP and HR rise and it is no fun at all.

As for the link between AF and CH, well I don't see one in the study directly. I have spoken to my headache specialist about heart and CH at length and another condition was tested for and do not have. Patent Foramen Ovale, seems to have a relationship to Migraine only.

DW Dodick has a paper on it here:
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FWIW, my headache specialist said he had seen PFO in cluster patients, had it remedied by a Cardio-surgeon and CHers reported absolutely no difference, an observation he made across hundreds of CH patients, not a study I can locate unfortunately. not every clinical observation makes it to clinical trial, so a study I cannot provide.

Maybe it is worth investigating medical imaging of the heart to see if there are any anatomical abnormalities.

Perhaps a serum calcium test would reveal something.
Just a thought...

Thanks for your reply Mike NZ.

Mike NZ wrote on Jul 30^th, 2016 at 5:07pm:

Flying shouldn't stop him taking medication with him. I've flown multiple times internationally and have taken supplies of preventives (D3 and verapamil on different trips) plus sumatriptan injections (generic form of imitrex).

After being prescribed oxycodone for CH, my husband flatly refuses to try any other prescription medications for it. It was a bad experience for him and he has basically lost trust in that approach even though he is aware that there are effective prescription abortives. He read the potential side effects and decided that he would rather suffer than take the risk.

Red Bull has not worked for him. Showers seem to help a bit.

Thank you for your very interesting reply Fish Head.


feisty wrote on Jul 28^th, 2016 at 8:51pm:

My husband was in remission for almost two years, and we think it was because of Batch's Anti-inflammatory Regimen. Strangely, as soon as the cluster headaches stopped, the atrial fibrillation started.

wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

One thing to consider when using the regimen is serum Calcium level. Your clue is in the quote above. Maybe when adequate 25(OH)D levels were reached, hypercalcemia was also reached, this happened to me.

Fascinating. That totally makes sense and I was aware of the potential risk of hypercalcemia at those VitD3 doses. However, I thought that the magnesium would be protective? My husband did go off Batch's Anti-inflammatory Regimen a number of times to see if the regimen was causing the afib, but it never seemed to be the case. On the other hand, if one develops hypercalcemia I don't know how long it would take for it to stop after discontinuing regimen.


wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Serum Calcium is a test I now routinely take alongside 25(OH)D levels, lest I should again run into heart trouble.

This seems like a really good idea. Unfortunately I have not had much luck getting my husband to get blood tests because of his work schedule and skepticism. Perhaps I will have to insist. Batch's Anti-inflammatory Regimen involves therapeutic doses so it makes sense that monitoring would be required.


wrote on Aug 11^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

Maybe it is worth investigating medical imaging of the heart to see if there are any anatomical abnormalities.

My husband has had the whole battery of tests and there do not appear to be any issues with his heart. It seems to be vagally mediated, often triggered by digestive issues and sleeping.

Update. My husband started the accelerated loading doses of Batch's Anti-inflammatory Regimen on July 28, followed by the regular regimen. It seems like the cluster headaches are tapering off. Four weeks in, the CH are getting milder and they are occurring every other night, sometimes skipping two nights. My fingers are crossed that my husband will go into remission soon.

Fortunately, the afib is relatively calm at the moment as well.

Hey Feisty,

I don't recall, but did you ever get your husband to start a week to 10-day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) or start the 3-month course of vitamin B 50?

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Batch wrote on Aug 24^th, 2016 at 3:45pm:

I don't recall, but did you ever get your husband to start a week to 10-day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) or start the 3-month course of vitamin B 50?

Thanks for checking in Batch! He hasn't tried the Benadryl, and we haven't done the course of vitamin B complex since two years ago so both are probably worth trying.

Feisty,

Both are "definitely" worth trying.

Peter.

Just wanted to update that my husband's headaches did stop completely :) !

What I learned is that he needs to stick to the regimen more closely. My husband does seem susceptible to both allergy attacks, and unexplained infections. He has had three subcutaneous cysts infections develop after flu-like symptoms over the past few years (elbow, cheek, chin). In each case the source of the infection was not explained, and they were treated with iv antibiotics. I am pretty sure that recent the chin one is what triggered his most recent episode.

We still haven't tried it, but I am planning to push the benadryl next time the allergies seem to become an issue. He did have a huge sneezing attack early this morning, so leaf molds might be hitting now.

As always, I am immensely grateful to Batch.