Information on the new tryptamine option 5 MeO DALT (Synthetic Tryptamine N,N-Diallyl-5 Methoxytryptamine)  is promising and a case study is underway.

A survey has been created also to gather data and treatment information and is open for those who are interested and Mitch is asking for all involved to report on the survey after 30 days working or not. I will have that on the website. The study will conclude on March 31st at midnight.
A great example of patient/citizen science and showing again that great advances are coming directly from patients with the will to make change instead of waiting for something to happen. Much respect...


Here is information on this treatment. It is an alternative treatment and is a synthetic tryptamine.  NO side effects or very mild feeling of cold is the only one fairly consistent side effect and almost non existent. There is NO trip or recreational use involved.  It also is out of your system very quickly... Just a very promising and effective treatment and this case study will give us a bunch of good information success rates, side effects etc... To this point there have been no adverse effects and safety is 100% to date. Please take the time to read the link I put up for more information...

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***CAUTION***If you are interested in this DO NOT jump into this treatment or any alternative treatment without reading and studying thoroughly and DO NOT do this if you can not measure your doses accurately and follow the instructions Mitch has provided so this can be a success for you and the entire cluster headache community.

shame its now illegal to buy in the uk as of jan7th

It will be very interesting to see the survey results as I believe it will go for about 3 more months then a report will be made.  Exciting to watch this all unfold but again it is early and we are far from conclusions.  Lets hope because hope seems to be prevalent here...

P.S. I am personally involved in this case study and a 42 year CHer. I'm in complete remission for eight weeks now only the third time in my life due to a treatment. Once for 1.5 years on the D3 regimen (Thanks Pete!) and using the clusterbuster method for one year. Also chronic. I can't tell I'm taking it. No side effects at all for me and a very clean feeling of remission shadow free as well. I went from 6+ attacks a day every day to this the day after I started the treatment not a shadow since. This is not a cure in fact it is a process of consistent treatment and significant commitment to the patient also an education on it is NECESSARY to do this and understand this treatment and to make this successful. All the best and much respect...John


***CAUTION***If you are interested in this DO NOT jump into this treatment without reading and studying thoroughly and DO NOT do this if you can't measure your doses accurately and follow the instructions provided so this can be a success for you and the entire cluster headache community.

Hi! As almost everyone, I'm willing to give a chance to almost every treatment out there and this one sounds good. Has anyone else tried it? How do you buy it and how much is it? Can I get into one of this trials?

Please read my previous posts. There are around 60 or so CHers involved in this case study myself included. Put me in remission in one day and I'm chronic .A large majority are in remission or getting relief. Very early in this case study. Again please read my previous posts... Good luck!
Please also read the link below for more information.
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***CAUTION***If you are interested in this DO NOT jump into this treatment or any alternative treatment without reading and studying thoroughly and DO NOT do this if you can not measure your doses accurately and follow the instructions provided so this can be a success.

No offense, but where are this 60 CH's who have tried or are trying this posting their comments?

Most all are in the 5000 member Face Book Support Group "Cluster Headaches" Where I'm one of three admins. That figure of 60 is being left in the dust,  Mitch Post who found this treatment has been following folks and if you noticed I pulled the estimated  percentage rates of remission free patients because this case study is growing so rapidly that we can't keep up accurately now. We are going to have to wait for the survey results. It certainly is a promising and exciting treatment and rates of total remission are high. We'll just have to wait and see now...

This case study will conclude on March 31st at midnight...


***CAUTION***If you are interested in this DO NOT jump into this or any treatment without reading and studying thoroughly and DO NOT do this if you can not measure your doses accurately and follow the instructions provided so this can be a success for you and the entire cluster headache community.

could we get a tip on who a good online provider would be?

Boards (this and CB board) and Facebook are almost 2 separate things... it's good if one can follow all of them. I find myself extremely rarely on boards, FB taking so much of the time. 5-MeO-DALT is huge in FB. Very great to see some discussion here as well !

I believe the question was where can someone find this, what are the best vendors?from what I understand the vendor in the UK no longer carries it

Just an FYI - this is a synthetic psychedelic tryptamine so this is along the lines of the shroom treatment.

Yes it was created by Alexander Shulgin in 2004 or 2006 i believe and was created a a psychedelic drug (Tryptamine).  It has been considered a poor recreational drug and was kinda put aside as an obscure research chemical.

I have been CCH free the whole time I started using it for over 3 months, I was CCH free in a day and I'm chronic for the most part of 42 years. I have had no side effects at all and I can't tell I'm even taking it. It just stopped my attacks within a day.  There are a couple of sources that have been used consistently from Canada.

Please read and study the information on the link below to understand this treatment and follow the directions so you can have a successful experience.

The case study has concluded and the following paper work is being done and will take about a week. Preliminary results are AMAZING!!

Great, next step is to get it published in a journal and get it noticed by neurologists and those who can make it happen. Hopefully this will lead to formal trials with the full double blind protocol which is the gold standard for proving that it is really working and not a placebo effect.

Placebo effect? Seriously? I can say mine is zero, even the neuros back here agree it's around that percentage. Yeah, one can dig up some studies that bring it up but any clusterhead knows that's almost non-existent.

Tony Only wrote on Apr 5^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Placebo effect? Seriously? I can say mine is zero, even the neuros back here agree it's around that percentage. Yeah, one can dig up some studies that bring it up but any clusterhead knows that's almost non-existent.

Yes, seriously. The placebo effect is incredibly powerful, even with CH.

Google Scholar brings up multiple studies where the placebo effect has an impact - START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE.

One example is a paper on the use of intranasal sumatriptan to abort CHs.
Intranasal sumatriptan in cluster headache - Randomized placebo-controlled double-blind study
J. A. van Vliet, MD, A. Bahra, MRCP, V. Martin, MD, N. Ramadan, MD, S. K. Aurora, MD, N. T. Mathew, MD DM, FRCP(C), M. D. Ferrari, MD PhD and P. J. Goadsby, MD DSc
Neurology February 25, 2003 vol. 60 no. 4 630-633


Quote:

Results: Five study centers enrolled 118 patients in whom 154 attacks were treated: 77 with sumatriptan and 77 with placebo. The responder rates at 30 minutes were 57% for sumatriptan and 26% for placebo (p = 0.002). Pain-free rates at 30 minutes were 47% for sumatriptan and 18% for placebo (p = 0.003). Sumatriptan was also superior to placebo considering initial response, meaningful relief, and relief of associated symptoms. There were no serious adverse events.

So 26% of people responded to a placebo which is impressive when you compare it to 57% responding to the actual drug and this is in response to an actual CH. Even more impressive is that for 18% the placebo makes them go pain free from a CH!

The double blind trial is essential to prove it is working, especially with the background of the drug and how it is illegal in some countries. If this has to have a chance of working well for people it needs to progress through all the appropriate trials.

Excellent Mike......without the placebo effect, medicine...modern or otherwise... would be farther out in the desert than it already is. I personally couldn't care less if something works because I THINK it works, because it DOES, or somewhere in between. The human mind is more powerful than has ever been considered......drug researchers COUNT on the placebo effect for part of the success of most any drug...the trick is to tease out the elements physiological efficacy vs the "believed"...

Trials/research are essential to the progress of science...as ya can't just throw stuff against the wall and "hope"...a placebo must be inspired by "this might work" and I'm gonna give it a good go....

As an aside...I just saw an article about the placebo effect in the treatment of canine ailments. Claimed to be effective..... with the thought that if the vet believes then the dog gets better. I'm thinking that's a different animal...a dog may respond to attention.... but it's not because he "believes"....sorry....

Best

Jon

Because this treatment belongs to no one makes it even better and shouldn't get stalled like BOL 148. 5 MeO DALT has shown to be right up there with BOL and the case study report will be ready soon, probably a few days. Would like to see many entities involved and pick up 5 MeO DALT.  The more that want to run with it the better. I will post a copy of the report when I get it in ha

jon019 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2015 at 9:59pm:

Excellent Mike......without the placebo effect, medicine...modern or otherwise... would be farther out in the desert than it already is. I personally couldn't care less if something works because I THINK it works, because it DOES, or somewhere in between. The human mind is more powerful than has ever been considered......drug researchers COUNT on the placebo effect for part of the success of most any drug...the trick is to tease out the elements physiological efficacy vs the "believed"... Trials/research are essential to the progress of science...as ya can't just throw stuff against the wall and "hope"...a placebo must be inspired by "this might work" and I'm gonna give it a good go.... As an aside...I just saw an article about the placebo effect in the treatment of canine ailments. Claimed to be effective..... with the thought that if the vet believes then the dog gets better. I'm thinking that's a different animal...a dog may respond to attention.... but it's not because he "believes"....sorry.... Best Jon

great post Jon !
The mind is a powerful instrument !
Just wish my mind was powerful enough to realise that a nice "frothy"  ( cold beer )  was indeed a preventative for clusters  !   guess my mind is just weak, hasn't worked so far  ;D
cheers
colin

Just in my personal CH there could've been a placebo effect/factor when I was CCH and nothing was working and everything in the medical field was tried. I got hit so much regularly and there were so many factors present that if something worked even for a little while it was hard to be sure what it was.

Ever since detoxing from all prescription meds and finding ways to control my CH it's been very clear the placebo effect currently - just on my personal CH - is zero. If stuff works I won't get hit. If it doesn't, I do. But with the meds it was a completely different story.

I agree 100% with the power of mind part (suggested reading on the subject: START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or END PRINTPAGE) probably even more than average fellas but just in my CH now my mind won't prevent the hits. Glad there's other stuff that does.

MOD: Don't want to hijack this good 5-MeO-DALT thread so may this be a last one from me  :)

It's mind over matter- "if you don't mind, it don't matter!"

The case study just concluded having about 50 patients used but more than 200 started to late to be involved in the case study. 87% success rate at a positive experience. So as of now a very large majority using 5 MeO DALT are now in full remission. Safety is 100% to date.

Forgive me if this has already been covered, but is there any way to test what you get in the mail to be sure that it is actually 5-MEO-DALT?

-Ricardo

Hi Ricardo...
If you read all the info Mitch put out on this it does explain it all and tells everyone what they need to do to be successful.  We all have to find our own supplier. Mitch made suggestions on how to check the reputation of a supplier...Good Luck!

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The type of test that I was talking about was more along the lines of one of these- 

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as opposed to seller reputation.  Completely just my opinion, but this is one of the things I don't like about the 5-MEO-DALT.  There is no way to tell if what you got in the mail is really what you think it is.  All you have to go by is a whole bunch of other people's opinion.  One problem with this is that DALT has not been around for that long, not that many people have tried it--and as far as I know there is no way to test it.  So how do they know they got the real thing anyways?  To me it seems too easy for a person to get a funny white powder in a timely fashion from a supplier, get lit off it, and give a good review of the seller because they had a good experience.  Most people have no experience with DALT so how are they going to say "that doesn't feel like DALT to me..."? 

The second thing I really disagree with is the lack of legal repercussions that could possibly happen by getting caught with this substance.  Under the analog act you could most definitely be charged with drug possession.    I think with a good lawyer you might be able to get off those charges, but that is after being arrested, charged and brought to court numerous times.  I find it hard to believe that when you tell the police officer that is holding up your bag of white powder "hey that's not illegal, look it says 5-MEO-DALT" that it's going to do you much good.

I'm not trying to be snarky and most of this is just my opinion, not to mention that to me it looks like DALT has some serious potential--but I do think we should be realistic when talking about the potential upsides and downsides of all Cluster treatments.

Peace

-Ricardo

I have to admit, a bit of the info on the information page seems to me to be incomplete or not quite right.

Like this:

I stumbled upon 5-MeO-DALT because I was looking for a molecule that had some of the good properties of the things we know, like psilocybin and LSA (stopping my cluster headaches) without the bad properties (psychedelic trips, nausea, jail time).

Jail time is still a possibility. 

And this:

What makes it better? A: I’m not willing to say that it’s “better” than other alternative treatments, but I will point out the advantages. One advantage is dosage control. When you take 15mg of 5-MeO-DALT, you are getting 15mg of 5-MeO-DALT. By comparison, when you take an extraction of rivea corymbosa seeds, you are getting an unknown amount of LSA along with hundreds of other chemicals, some of them volatile. When you take 1g of mushrooms, you are getting an unknown amount of psilocybin along with hundreds of other chemicals, some of them volatile.

All though this is true (for my own info though, which of the chemicals in Psilocybin would you consider "volatile"?  Maybe I'm just getting stuck on the word...Did you mean "undesirable"?")  LSD, LSA and Psilocybin have one major advantage in that they have been studied to a ridiculous degree.  All 3 were around and studied quite extensively before our stupid drug war suppressed psychedelic research.  One big thing we know is that toxicity of these 3 drugs is practically non-existant, but with 5-MEO-DALT there is no published literature on the toxicity.  5-MEO-DALT was invented just over 10 years ago and has barely been studied at all.  We know that when you ingest 5-meo-dalt you are just ingesting one chemical, but the same would be true about pure Psilocybin.  You can take pure Psilocybin, but once ingested it metabolizes into Psilocin.  You can take pure Ketamine, but it metabolizes into Nor-ketamine.  What does Dalt metabolize into?  What is it actually doing in the brain?  As far as I have read nobody knows because it is an extremely new substance that has been hardly tested at all.  I greatly dispute the claim that

5-MeO-DALT is a single molecule that does one thing.

This is not something we really know, and just from the research that I have done on drugs--it is a very rare thing for a drug to "just do one thing"

Frankly, some chronics are quite content taking a dose every five days no matter what. With its low cost and minimal side effects, that’s not a problem.

We have no way of saying this for sure.  A more accurate statement would be "so far no one has had any negative effects from dosing every 5 days on a regular basis"

Won’t I go to jail for this? A: No. In most countries, 5-MeO-DALT remains unscheduled/unregulated. Japan and Sweden have made it illegal, and the UK is trying hard to make it illegal. In the US, it is possible to be prosecuted under the analog act, primarily if you decide to sell 5-MeO-DALT as a “street drug”. There is absolutely nothing illegal about buying or possessing it for personal use.

A more accurate statement would be -  Maybe. It is currently illegal in Japan, Sweden and the UK (they made it illegal in January)  In the United States you can possibly get charged with it under the federal analog act.  This means that if your package gets opened by the USPS you could end up with an agent at your door.  If you get caught with it by a police officer you could most definitely end up in jail. 

Also, I have never heard of anything saying that the federal analog act does not apply to personal possession or personal use.  Where did you hear this?  I am pretty sure that is not true.

Again, I think this sounds like a great substance with a lot of potential BUT I think we need to tread carefully and be realistic about what we know and don't know and about the legal dangers that exist with this drug. 

-Ricardo

Just an update and we are working on getting DALT into trials. It has continued to be 100% safe with no reported serious problems at all. I think the worst side effect I have heard in the group is nausea but that is also very rare or like you drank a couple of beers. For most you feel nothing at all, just stops the attacks and many hundreds in our group using it.

Here is a page on the website with more info ..Best of luck and again Study it well if your interested in this treatment study cluster busters use of tryptamines and 5 MeO DALT... I have a couple more pages in my directory on it too. So study and work with your doctors/neurologists...

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John, thank you so much for the updates!!! [smiley=thumb.gif]

-Melissa

My turn to jump in here. 2006 was my last post.  ::)
Surprised my login still works.
I have been successfully treating my CCH since 3/1/2015 and pain free. It works for most as well as John suggests.
It is not illegal in most states. Believe me, the DEA and local law enforcement have no interest in prosecuting someone for trying to find relief from the Beast. A number of people using 5-meo-dalt ARE in law enforcement and see the sense of using a small very controlled amount of synthetic tryptamine over a somewhat uncontrolled trip experience using shrooms, LSA, or LSD.
There are 3 very good source left since the chemical is now banned in China.
I will post the sources if the Moderators OK's it.
Dave

I am in Canada and would like to know where /how to get it.  Nothing has worked for my atypical chronic cluster headaches which last a lot longer than most people's clusters do.

I want to share my experience with this drug so people know its a hopeful treatment but not a cure-all.  I have taken Dalt for a few weeks, 4 doses actually. 15mg every 5 days. I started taking it about a week or so after my cycle started. (I'm episodic btw) so far it has reduced the number of attacks and gives me almost 24 hours pain free before slapping me back in the eye almost exactly 24 hours later. Related to my other cycles over the 11 years ive had them, I dont know if its the Dalt thats done it or what but the hits have not progressed this cycle. What i mean is, my experience has been that at the beginning of a cycle, with no medications or abortives, i would get an attack and then pf for a day or so and then get another one. After a week or so of that i would get them everyday and within a few days i would be up to 3-4 attacks a day. 4 weeks later, after being hit 3-6 times a day, it would stop and i would be pain free until my next cycle. Who knows when that would be because ive went into cycle in the fall, spring, summer, winter....never know. This last year i got random attacks where i got a full cluster headache out of cycle. Just one attack one day and then pain free for a few months and then anither attack one day and then pain free a few more months... thats never happened before. My last dose of 5 meo dalt was at the onset of an attack. I took a 15mg capsule of it and i took two 200mg caffeine tablets (vivarin). Omg. That was the worst feeling of nausea I've ever got during an attack. I normally dont get nauseous. Now, i take the 2 vivarin every time i wake up because i dont drink coffee, and i have for years, so the caffeine couldnt be the culprit. So far, the dalt hasnt stopped my cycle and from previous experiences with the CH's over 11 years, once that 24 hours is up i get the worst attack ive ever felt. 24 hours after my first dose of dalt i had a 4 and a half hour kip 10+ attack. I literally thought i had screwed up and made something pop inside my head. The whole side of my head went numb, the pressure in my upper jaw, roof of my mouth and into my nose and eye was so unbelievable. Its reminds me of pinching off a water hose thinking that turned off the water. It all just built up and came out later and at full force for an extremely long time. Im still going to continue taking the dalt for the duration of the cycle. I'm 3 weeks in and i usually have 4 week cycles (give or take) when i dont use Sumatriptan, which i haven't taken this cycle. I got my dalt from a fellow CH'er and dont know where to get it either. I thinks its pretty funny that nobody will help anyone find a place to get it. Seems pretty dumb to me. And ive noticed quite a few smarta....rude comments on here from people who you can tell have some serious attitude. Whats with that? And i know if i wouldnt have been given the 5 meo dalt i would never have been able to try it because i actually did try finding a place to buy it, all dead ends. I have even tried up to this moment and i have yet to be able to find a way to get it. Im kinda dumbfounded to see fellow sufferers telling people "its the greatest thing since sliced bread! Go find it yourself!" Ok, start the bashing. Who knows, you might knock something back right.

..if ya wanna get "bashed"... ya gonna have to make it readable....try paragraphs...a
page of single spacing is just "annoying"......and limits yur audience

Hi and welcome,
Four and a half hours kip10 seems a long time for a CH. I know of folk that are getting success using Dalt, but the thing is we are all different and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. Have you looked into the vitamin D regime on here, it has lots of us CH free, myself included.

Cheers Hoppy

Well jon09, its a good thing i dont care to speak to jerks. You can keep scrolling. Are you the post police?
Is this better for everyones viewing pleasure?
I came here to share my experience with the treatment because i cant find anyone with the same experience as me. The 4.5 hour attack was a one off and could have been more than one linked together but if it was, it never really subsided between attacks. I never post, only read. I think this is the same with a lot of people and this is why im getting discouraged not finding anyone but full success stories.
I didnt come here to down the drug because It has decreased the number of attacks for me and i know a lot of people it has helped completely.
I also didnt come here to be jumped on by assholes who have nothing to add to the discussion but their criticism of how i type. I'm not a "professional" poster in these places and it took me awhile to even decide to post.
I really dont think I'll be coming back to this place. All i see are people, like Ronaldo(?), someone who obviously doesnt want to get better by picking apart everything to somehow disprove the effectiveness for some people and everyone so concerned about the wording or how the paragraph is formed. This is ignorant. Cant see the forest through the trees. I have no use for people like this.
All you chronic complainers have a great life. ;D ;)

---

towboater wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

Well jon09, its a good thing i dont care to speak to jerks. You can keep scrolling. Are you the post police? Is this better for everyones viewing pleasure? I came here to share my experience with the treatment because i cant find anyone with the same experience as me. The 4.5 hour attack was a one off and could have been more than one linked together but if it was, it never really subsided between attacks. I never post, only read. I think this is the same with a lot of people and this is why im getting discouraged not finding anyone but full success stories. I didnt come here to down the drug because It has decreased the number of attacks for me and i know a lot of people it has helped completely. I also didnt come here to be jumped on by assholes who have nothing to add to the discussion but their criticism of how i type. I'm not a "professional" poster in these places and it took me awhile to even decide to post. I really dont think I'll be coming back to this place. All i see are people, like Ronaldo(?), someone who obviously doesnt want to get better by picking apart everything to somehow disprove the effectiveness for some people and everyone so concerned about the wording or how the paragraph is formed. This is ignorant. Cant see the forest through the trees. I have no use for people like this. All you chronic complainers have a great life. ;D ;)

Who pissed in your cheerios?

                   Potter

Yikes Tow-bro...you're the one that asked to be bashed...didn't get there yet and not planning to...I was jus' pointing out a better way to get what ya want! Stick around...maybe it'll blunt summa that anger ...which aint no damn good fer CH...I know...been there!

And...aint nothing difficult about paragraphs...they been around a LONG time and really help with
clear communication....aint got nuttin to do with professional posting...which none of us are...

And please...can ya pick one...I have to look in the mirror and it's HARD to pick whether Ima jerk, or an assholio, or an ignoramus, or a chronic complainer...I know I'm onea them but it's so confusing...can ya hep a fella out?

Best

Jon 0 ONE 9

Took Towboater eight hundred days to make their first pissy post and prolly gonna wait eight hundred more to reply. 

            Potter

Easy does it family! Lol!... 5 MeO DALT is now proving to be just another tool in the arsenal for many but as was mentioned we are all different and not everything helps us all. I can only hope it has helped many achieve PF or better days... Hope things get better for those who have yet to give it a try...Best of luck to all.. :)

towboater wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

Well jon09, its a good thing i dont care to speak to jerks. You can keep scrolling. Are you the post police? Is this better for everyones viewing pleasure? I came here to share my experience with the treatment because i cant find anyone with the same experience as me. The 4.5 hour attack was a one off and could have been more than one linked together but if it was, it never really subsided between attacks. I never post, only read. I think this is the same with a lot of people and this is why im getting discouraged not finding anyone but full success stories. I didnt come here to down the drug because It has decreased the number of attacks for me and i know a lot of people it has helped completely. I also didnt come here to be jumped on by assholes who have nothing to add to the discussion but their criticism of how i type. I'm not a "professional" poster in these places and it took me awhile to even decide to post. I really dont think I'll be coming back to this place. All i see are people, like Ronaldo(?), someone who obviously doesnt want to get better by picking apart everything to somehow disprove the effectiveness for some people and everyone so concerned about the wording or how the paragraph is formed. This is ignorant. Cant see the forest through the trees. I have no use for people like this. All you chronic complainers have a great life. ;D ;)

Please don't let the negativity of a couple of curmudgeons on this site deter you from posting and participating. I, for one, was glad to hear about your experience with this treatment. It's the only way others can tell whether something is really effective or not.

[quote author=434C57404B511616220 link=1421441190/40#40 date=1454831637
Please don't let the negativity of a couple of curmudgeons on this site deter you from posting and participating. I, for one, was glad to hear about your experience with this treatment. It's the only way others can tell whether something is really effective or not.[/quote]


Oh this is so confusing...the list of what I am GROWS when all I wanted was clarification! Now  curmudgeon thrown on the pile. This one has real possibilities though...some of my favorite folks are curs..as I call 'em fer short. Cleveland Amory was so self described. If ya like cats you really should read his stories. Another favorite was Andy Rooney...tho he got a little too whiney for me towards the end. Sometimes wondered if I watched 60 Minutes just to see him? I surely don't watch as much any more...and towards sign-off I still expect  ...."and now a few minutes with Andy Rooney"....

I'm still up for a few minutes...occasionally (but rarely) "negative"...tho not on this thread...can ya read?. Frequently "smart-ass"...now THAT really should top the list.......

Best

Jon

If you're finding there's a long list of negative epithets you're being called, by a broad cross-section of people, you >might< want to start re-evaluating yourself and your way of communicating, rather than assuming it's 'everybody else' who's at fault.

You may think all you were doing is asking for towboater to make his posts more readable, but the way you phrased the comment was hyper-critical. There's no 'asking' for being 'bashed'. There's just people who are actively looking to bash others, and then justifying their bashing fetish with excuses like, 'but he didn't break up his comment into paragraphs! So he deserved it!'

Try saying something encouraging next time when you want to ask someone to consider changing the way they speak/write, rather than threatening. I, for one, want to hear other people's experiences with different CH treatment options, and that's far more important to me than critiquing their grammar or writing style, although I can understand it can be difficult to comprehend someone if their writing is convoluted or indecipherable.

...now THAT'S an intelligent, concise and cogent observation...vs an angry rant directed at the FAMILY who may be ones only hope...and I'm the ONLY one in this "discussion" who has been called names....

....and please...just because 'tow and anubis say"....does not mean there is a "broad cross section of people" who think ol jonboy is more than one of the epithets...this family can surely speak for itself....although thanks for the chuckle!

Best

Jon

PS If you wanna discuss further.... how's about we take it offline in PM's and not waste any more of these good folks time and space

jon019 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2016 at 12:05pm:

...now THAT'S an intelligent, concise and cogent observation...vs an angry rant directed at the FAMILY who may be ones only hope...and I'm the ONLY one in this "discussion" who has been called names.... ....and please...just because 'tow and anubis say"....does not mean there is a "broad cross section of people" who think ol jonboy is more than one of the epithets...this family can surely speak for itself....although thanks for the chuckle! Best Jon PS If you wanna discuss further.... how's about we take it offline in PM's and not waste any more of these good folks time and space

  Go fish, smell like beer and bait and be the curmudgeon you were meant to be Jon.

            Potter

...thanks Potter....kinda had my heart set on smart-ass...but the voting is trending cur....

...I volunteer in a social services agency as an "office boy"...which is delightful cuz I get to do
no stress work with a bunch of young vibrant folks. It is a wonderful opportunity to sharpen my curmudgeon skills....... because in this world of stifling political correctness...I can say stuff that they are forbidden to...and they think it's a hoot. They'll say "say something mean Jon"...and I just say something that's true...and they think it's mean. Whatta they gonna do...fire me?

Best

Jon

jon019 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2016 at 3:02pm:

...thanks Potter....kinda had my heart set on smart-ass...but the voting is trending cur.... ...I volunteer in a social services agency as an "office boy"...which is delightful cuz I get to do no stress work with a bunch of young vibrant folks. It is a wonderful opportunity to sharpen my curmudgeon skills....... because in this world of stifling political correctness...I can say stuff that they are forbidden to...and they think it's a hoot. They'll say "say something mean Jon"...and I just say something that's true...and they think it's mean. Whatta they gonna do...fire me? Best Jon

  Notice how OLD and CURMUDGEON are always used in the same sentence?

              Potter

No, I didn't notice. Nor can I see OLD and CURMUDGEON used anywhere in the same sentence on this thread.

What I did notice was an intelligent discussion on an alternative method of perhaps beating a beast.

AussieBrian wrote on Feb 9^th, 2016 at 6:55am:

What I did notice was an intelligent discussion on an alternative method of perhaps beating a beast.

One which seems to be working for one person and he is trying out things to see how effective it is based on dose / frequency and even trying stopping it to see if the symptoms return or not, which is quite a scientific way of trying it out.

Ok...Back to the treatment Ha! It is working very well for hundreds if not more CHers and is comparable to psilocybin or similar tryptamine. What ever it is that makes all these tryptamines so effective for CH,  5 MeO DALT is showing the exact same thing. The good thing about this treatment is there is no tripping or extremely mild effects and most folks have zero side effects. Personally I could not even tell I was taking it.

I am one of the four administrators for the big face book CH group ("Cluster Headaches") for over 3 years now with close to 5600 patients and I know many using it and discussing 5 MeO DALT daily. I have yet to hear any bad side effects and no adverse side effects to speak of at all.

The harshest side effect I have heard after 2 years is some mild nausea and that is very rare. More frequently but still rarely I have heard it's like you just had a couple of beers. The large majority though have no side effects. If your interested in it study all the available literature and do it properly never just jumping into it or any treatment...Knowledge is power!...:)

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towboater wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

All i see are people, like Ronaldo(?), someone who obviously doesnt want to get better by picking apart everything to somehow disprove the effectiveness for some people and everyone so concerned about the wording or how the paragraph is formed. ;D ;)

Seeing as how I am the only person on this thread with any name somewhat similar to "Ronaldo" (You don't win any points in that whole "I'm going to put a tiny bit of effort into getting people to understand what the hell I'm talking about" department, but regardless....) and the fact that I most definitely (and with no apologies) picked and will pick this apart to pieces, until we feel like we really know all there is to know about it, I'm going to assume you are talking about me.   I pick this apart not because I want to disprove the effectiveness of anything but because I am scared of what can happen when taking these drugs lightly.  Another tryptamine that has been billed as "just like Psilocybin" got used in higher doses recently by one of our clusterbusters and it ended up with him having a complete psychotic breakdown and him in a padded cell for 45 days.  When you compare the two you find that 4-HO-MET has been used more and has been around longer than 5-MEO-DALT and yet there are more bad reports on 5-MEO-DALT.  I understand completely that people are talking about small doses of this stuff but to me it seems like what the idea of a "small" dose to the clusterbuster community is different than what a small dose is to the recreational drug community.  For dosages on Erowid it says the following--

Threshold  4-5 mg
Light         5-12 mg
Common   12-25 mg
Strong      25 +

But we have it listed in this thread that the recreational dose is 200 mg  That is one hell of a difference. 

The dosage that I have heard us talking about the most is 15 mg.  You can find reports of recreational users taking 15 mg to get high.  If I am missing something here somebody please point it out to me, but to me it looks like we are having a somewhat cavalier attitude towards a potentially very helpful substance.  I just do not want us to take this lightly and end up with dangerous situations that give helpful substances bad names.  (Try to find a clusterbuster that's going to go for 4-HO-MET at this point)  I also do not want to see anyone get hurt, and I know everyone on this board can say the same thing.  Under it's description on Erowid.org it only has two sentences--

"5-MeO-DALT is a synthetic psychedelic. It is extremely uncommon with nearly no history of human use."

One of the things I mentioned that I do not like about it is that you can not do a reaction test for it.  I point this out not to dissuade people from trying the drug but to point out that they should be extra careful when they get it.  All companies (even good labs) make mistakes.  I also point it out because we have some very smart people on this board who could possibly come up with the exact type of test that I am talking about. 

I am always about more options, not less and I'm not trying to talk anyone out of anything, I am only trying to convince people to tread carefully and above all look out for individual sensitivities or allergies that you might have.  (myself, I would try 1 mg as a test every time you get a new batch)

As far as legality goes, Maybe I'm wrong on the idea that you can be prosecuted under the federal analog act. (but I don't think so)  I'm going to reach out to some drug law experts that I am in contact with and I'll let you guys know their take on it.

The original links that were posted no longer seem to be working.  Are there new links to the details on this busting method?

Towboater-- sorry you are having such a bad experience here but I am hesitant to say it's anyone else's fault.  I know it sure as hell isn't mine :)

-Ronaldo

Regarding my take on the legality of 5-MEO-DALT--

My friend who is in the middle of completing his masters degree to become one of the federal officials involved with actually making and creating drug laws got back to me with his take on it.

I wrote and asked him - "a discussion we have been having on clusterbusters about 5-MEO-DALT I was hoping to get your opinion on.  Any ideas if you can get prosecuted under federal analog act for possessing it? 

He replied

"Yes, you can definitely get charged IF you are possessing and using for human consumption or selling and advocating for human consumption
With that compound actually you can probably be prosecuted for possession alone."

Although I fully believe that what my friend is saying is true,  I'm going to get in touch with a few other knowledgeable folks that I know and get their take on it as well.

-Ricardo

Thanks for yet another  well thought out post Ricardo. There are already so many tried and true options available  for  CH sufferers to choose from on this wonderful site  ,  why would a sufferer order an industrially produced RC from a questionable Chinese factory with a murky legal status.
MM spores can be easily identified once grown and although illegal to consume at least MM has a long history of human consumption. How exactly does one know what said powder(or crystals) actually is that has arrived in their mailbox? A piece of paper shipped with it that says so? I will echo Ricardo's sentiment here when I say that if I am missing something here someone please speak up and correct me.
With all due respect to Mr clusterheadachefoundation it is my understanding that a clinical trial is not performed under such conditions as he has initiated. By default his reports of positive results are flawed. Is having people who are on Facebook with and without proper diagnosis of said condition taking unproven RC'S  from random vendors from questionability regulated countries going to get big pharma to initiate a real trial?
Ordering spores to your home is not illegal , batch's list of vitamins are legal , safe and proven to be effective.
This seems sketchy to me at best.

wrote on Mar 25^th, 2016 at 11:04pm:

Thanks for yet another  well thought out post Ricardo. There are already so many tried and true options available  for  CH sufferers to choose from on this wonderful site  ,  why would a sufferer order an industrially produced RC from a questionable Chinese factory with a murky legal status. MM spores can be easily identified once grown and although illegal to consume at least MM has a long history of human consumption. How exactly does one know what said powder(or crystals) actually is that has arrived in their mailbox? A piece of paper shipped with it that says so? I will echo Ricardo's sentiment here when I say that if I am missing something here someone please speak up and correct me. With all due respect to Mr clusterheadachefoundation it is my understanding that a clinical trial is not performed under such conditions as he has initiated. By default his reports of positive results are flawed. Is having people who are on Facebook with and without proper diagnosis of said condition taking unproven RC'S  from random vendors from questionability regulated countries going to get big pharma to initiate a real trial? Ordering spores to your home is not illegal , batch's list of vitamins are legal , safe and proven to be effective. This seems sketchy to me at best.

Yep what he said^^^^^^^^^^^

      Potter

5 MeO DALT is just another busting option... Another tryptamine showing the same thing many tryptamines show. That they can stop or greatly relieve cluster headaches for close to 90% who use them. Sources of the medicine have already been used for over 3 years and not one incident to my knowledge of anything negative with the medicine in question and know of several people that had the medicine delivered tested for purity and in all cases was no issue.The old sources from China some used for a short time no longer exist for about two years now. To my knowledge there are only two sources available both from Canada that have been used consistently over the last few years by many and has been tested and consistently shown high quality.

If we suppress it and not tell folks what is available in a world where nothing works for everyone especially when such a high suicide rate is involved with CH in my opinion would not be the thing to do. It has put hundreds possibly thousands in remission and much milder side effects in comparison to LSD, psilocybin or any of the other tryptamines and has been recognized by Cluster Busters as well as many prominent neurologists as a viable alternative treatment showing great promise and again showing the ability of tryptamines to shut down or greatly relieve CH. To my knowledge to date it has shown to be consistently 100% safe. I have yet to hear of anyone having any serious problems with 5 MeO DALT or requiring any kind of medical attention as a result of using it.

To my knowledge no one in the history of using tryptamines to stop Cluster headaches has ever been prosecuted or even charged. I think if law enforcement wanted to get down on clusterheads it would have been done long ago after years of publicly exposing and continuously promoting LSD, Mushrooms etc. as a treatment for CH that has been saving lives for around 20 years also quite a bit of serious study, research and science on the use of tryptamines as a medicinal treatment for several severe diseases including CH...

Just my opinion but I would like to think if anyone ever did get charged for using a tryptamine based on it's positive history to control cluster headaches and the CH army that would back them up & huge media involvement probably wouldn't last long in court but to my knowledge it has yet to ever have happened to date. It could possibly force a patient to make the ultimate choice if the only treatment that worked for them was taken away. I certainly wouldn't want to be that prosecutor or want to be involved with the huge can of worms it all would open. (Probably why no one has ever been charged.)  Also would publicly bring to light the fact that our medical field has yet to create a single medicine to specifically treat the most painful disease known to medical science due to severely neglected and underfunded medical research leaving few options for the patient involved especially if the "off label" pharmaceuticals are not working or any other treatment which is not uncommon.

I respect all opinions and in posting this expected some controversy but I have never been into the suppression or withholding information of any treatment that has been working well to stop this nightmare also the potential to save many lives and that can with little to no side effects or tripping to stop this incredible pain we all share for those the D3 regimen or other treatments do not work....

Having controlled trials done has been discussed by the biggest organizations in the world and may be done but nothing set yet.  I recommend for folks to check out the information over on the Cluster Busters site on 5 MeO DALT as just another busting option to treat CH.

I am just giving folks information on a treatment working very well for many and with anything new like this will take time to ease minds... I am also not standing on a box saying hey everyone try this! only a messenger sharing information for those inquiring minds who want to know... Personally when a patient asks me about alternative treatments my first response is always to look at the D3 regimen first and many times to more than a dozen patients every single day for years.

As with any treatment traditional off-label or alternative treatment educating yourself and gaining the knowledge necessary to feel comfortable to move forward "or not" is always the best, safest and wisest thing to do... Also as always continue to work together with your health care professional... PF wishes & much respect to all in Clusterville  :)

Can someone share (or PM me) some known good sources for DALT?