Does anyone know of specific research in blood pressure spikes with regards CH or any Primary HA.

Also what is current technology status on Real Time Continuous Blood Pressure Monitoring.

Reason, I am interested to research possible links of (commonality of) "Tringgers" in creating a ramp in blood pressure.

And also any research on Hypertension remedies that not only reduce BP but level out spikes.

It appears that many of the things that give relief to CH also have a property of reducing BP; Drugs (incl vit D), Oxygen (reducing blood flow), nerve stimulation, relaxation/meditation etc

I am convinced the relationship of internal BP (general and cranial) and atmospheric has an influence, so it may not be an internal trigger; food, drug,alcohol, anxiety/mood change etc but also if there is a rapid enough gradient change in lowering of atmospheric pressure (AP) then the resulting ratio between BP/AP would mimic an increase in BP.

I am particularly interested in what this gradient / ramp (increase in BP / Time) might be (if it exists as a function of CH); so relative BP (BP/AP) increase over "x" time is trigger but over "y" time not?

And it is specifically the ramp that I am interested in; in the population of normally; low, normal and high BP's not just hypertensive individuals.

Any pointers to existing research would be much appreciated.

It appears there is a known condition of excessive variation in blood pressure that can lead to strokes. A drug group that can even out the spikes are Calcium Channel Blockers (CCB), one such blocker is Verapamil.

The theory goes like this; there is an underlying condition eg a trapped, squeezed, nipped, squashed nerve that is sending signals to the processing bits of the brain including the hypothalamus.

The brain becomes accustomed to the signals but notes that something isn't right.

Pain is the brains way of alerting us to danger and protecting an injured area until it has had chance to heal.

If the brain thinks a stroke is imminent it may decide to stop us dead in our tracks with a CH or other Primary HA before ... well we are dead in our tracks.

The precurser to many strokes is a Blood Pressure spike that can occur in anyone (with low, normal or high BP).

Lowering the BP will assist the brain in accepting the danger is over; oxygen, drugs, relaxation etc.

But to help prevent the brain getting panicky the spikes have to be evened out with CCB eg Verapamil or perhaps D3.

It would be good is some neurologists and pain specialists could get together and test the theory in a trial but the endpoint (a "cure") would be to identify the underlying problem (impacted nerve), evening out the spikes in BP and persuading the brain not to be panicked.

"Andrew Booker, 52, had his blood pressure checked by his GP every six months due to a family history of strokes. The readings, he was assured, were fine and he was given  no medication.
But taking his blood pressure at home with a digital monitor revealed occasional high peaks of 190/130.
‘They coincided with times I got splitting headaches and felt hot,’ says Andrew, a safety administrator from Oxford. "
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In just a day the research I've seen is showing BP spikes cause more than just headaches.

I wouldn't mind betting every CH episode is preceded by BP spikes (not run of the mill but out of the ordinary ones)

Boyles Law (or is it Charles'?) would explain why the differential temp / atmos pressure at different times in the season would have an effect on the internal going ons.
Take a balloon and take it from a high ambient pressure and put it in a lower pressure, it will grow. Take an aneurysm and wait for the barometer to drop and it will grow. If the aneurysm is touching a nerve the pressure will increase.
A BP spike (if you have an aneurysm is not good, it could pop). The brain doesn't know whats pressing on a nerve; aneurysm bone, muscle, facet, ligament. The brain cannot tell but if it has an evolved instinct to shut the body down when it senses an aneurysm is about to pop it might create a CH or Fit or unconsciousness.
It might not but it would be interesting if a trial was done to check the BP of sufferers prior to a CH attack. Once the first attack hits anxiety can take over and create the conditions for further attacks.

ps the evidence I'm seeing suggests that D3 does indeed flatten the BP wave. Funny that!

Before I was diagnosed with CH I was admitted to hospital for about a week for tests galore, including MRI / CT scans and every other test they seemed to think of.

One of the tests included seeing if my BP spiked when the headache pain started. I remember one when the CH started and they were doing the tests, being told I'd to remain totally still (not easy with a CH). They also did an ECG at the time too. I don't remember the actual results, but they didn't continue with this testing once they'd got a "good" set of data from a CH.

This memory isn't perfect as it was almost 5 years ago, I was still suffering quite strongly from the effects of a concussion which kick started my CH and I was being given a lot of codeine to try to limit the pain that I was going through. But I won't forget having to remain as still as possible when all I wanted to do was the CH "dance".

BPA  (amongst other things) causes Blood pressure to spike

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BPA causes headaches

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Blood Pressure Spikes Cause Primary Headaches; deductive or abductive reasoning?

Hi LL,

Out of curiosity, or some other compunction (clusterhead compulsive action?), I used to occasionally self test BP during (yikes, that was hard...see Mike's comments above) and after a ch hit. It was always remarkably and scarily HIGH...and I stopped as pointless anyway....as there was nothing I could do about it and I was already on 480-1020 mg/dy verapamil....

I have always assumed pain...adrenaline...panic..anger...the dance...etc were all causing high BP... never considered the alternative that high BP was a trigger...interesting.

The only way I can see to test would be a constant BP monitoring during active CH cycle... with careful correlation to timing of hits. Given the limited research funding for anything ch related. small number of clusterheads, and lack of money making opportunites off of us...I'm not holding my breath...but it would be interesting.

Best

Jon

Hi there,

Some 3/4 years ago, while in hospital for tests ( yet more tests) I was on a 24 hour BP monitor. I was being hit hard every couple of hours at the time and sucking oxygen like my life depended on it.

The BP result came back with no change whatsoever during the entire period. I have to say the Doctors were surprised.

My BP, which I check regularly myself and is "officially" checked every 4 weeks, as I donate Platelets, is always 120/80.

Maybe I'm just lucky in this regard, but a CH hit doesn't seem to make any difference to my BP.

Just a comment, for what it's worth.

Keep well everyone.

Peter.

Jon & Peter

The theory, for what it's worth, is that the spike occurs before an attack.

Hence my interest in Real Time Continuous BP monitoring, the non invasive, current stuff, appears to be algorithm based, so BP this at this time vs BP at another means avg must have been somewhere in between the two (false conclusion)

No ones BP remains constant. But the theory here is that a ramp in BP that the brain doesn't like results in CH and other primary HA's. That ramp may be over hours, perhaps minutes but if it over seconds then current (non invasive) motitoring is likely not to catch it.

And as I understand the "in-line" monitoring (invasive) is flow rate, so not the same as BP.

Elasticity in the blood carrying vessels is supported by K2 (long molecule) and D (in various forms) so increased blood flow can have a dampened effect on BP if the environment is right, if not BP will rise and blood carrying vessels expand. If this presses on one of the nerves that can create problems then there is a good chance it will.

ps after the first hit anxiety will kick in to create all the other hits until the brain realises its not dead yet, panic over!

Hence success of placebos (increased effectiveness over norm in primary headache) and CBT and relaxation therapies etc.

If the brain stops thinking a stroke is about to hit then it starts to calm down. Until the next spike.

Hmmmmmm !!!

In the 40+ years that I've been reading about Cluster I don't recall any causal linkage with BP.

A short term elevation as a part of a stress reaction, either to an attack or in anticipation of an attack, is consistent to the literature.

BP spike not a "cause", but part of the cause. A/The final trigger, I suggest.

I think a simple (cheap) trial to establish if excessive BP fluctuations precede a CH would be to investigate the known preventative medications and see if there is a common attribute of levelling out the BP cycle.

It is known that Calcium Channel Blockers (CCB's)(e.g. Verapamil) do. If there is a common effect then a not unreasonable conclusion would be a pre-CH spike/trough in BP is a possible/probable trigger.
(But other co-effects would have to be analysed alongside)

Interesting trial by Yaprak Secil et al "Blood Pressure Changes in Patients Before, During and After Migraine Attacks"

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Although other literature confirms the association to be controversial

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It is known many triggers of CH create spikes in BP, it is known CCB's can level those spikes at the same time as acting as a preventative, a conclusion is that they are related. Atmospheric pressure also has an influence so if spikes (maybe troughs) are a causal trigger then their effects could be subtle but devastating.

Interesting trial by Yaprak Secil et al "Blood Pressure Changes in Patients Before, During and After Migraine Attacks"

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Quote:

...The patients were asked to record their blood pressure changes 3 times: (1) just before or very early, (2) during (when headache peaks), and (3) 1 hour after the attack. Twenty-three of the 62 patients (57 women, 5 men) had migraine with aura (22 women and 1 man), and 39 of them did not have aura (35 women and 4 men). There was no statistically significant difference between systolic and diastolic values obtained before or very early, during the peak level, and 1 hour after the end of the attacks (P > 0.05). Although diastolic hypotensive values were not different statistically between groups, when all the patients were considered, diastolic hypotensive values were detected in a considerable number of patients (a total of 115 measurements). In this normotensive migrainous population, we observed that diastolic hypotension before or very early, during, and after migraine attack was the most significant result (5.1%). Although it was not statistically significant, the total number of hypotensive values was remarkable.

I think it would have been of benefit if the people in the study recorded their BP at regular intervals through the day before and after the migraine so that there would be clear differences between what is "normal" variations in BP and what is migraine related.

Whilst the 5.1% measurement is statistically significant, it is not enough to say that the BP triggers the migraine with the methodology used. Plus if it did then I'd expect to see a higher % than 5.1% as this can also be read as 94.9% didn't show this connection.

The "remarkable" aspect is 115 obserations on hypertension in non hypertensive patients. But yes a proper trial needs to be done.

Coffee, chocolate, alcohol and sex cause spikes in BP (amongst other things) they also trigger Primary headaches.

lancashire Lad wrote on Mar 1^st, 2015 at 6:28pm:

The "remarkable" aspect is 115 obserations on hypertension in non hypertensive patients. But yes a proper trial needs to be done.

The trial will also need to include a control group of non-CH / migraine patients too to really get an understanding of what is "normal".

Now the $64,000 question is who will fund such a study?

"who will fund such a study"

If there's no money in it, the pharmas won't but there is no need for further trials;

The raw data exists, someone might want to pick it up for a phD thesis.

Things that cause BP spikes cause Primary HA's (incl CH). Things that stop spikes stop Primary HA's (incl CH).

Now where's me dosh? (or failing that my phD)