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Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications,  Treatments,  Therapies >> Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
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Message started by JT08 on May 7th, 2017 at 9:46pm

Title: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on May 7th, 2017 at 9:46pm
Hello,

I'm new here but have been following and using Batch's regimen for several years now.  It has worked wonders for my cluster headaches, and has allowed me to go several months at a time with absolutely no pain.

In the past 3 weeks, I've felt the onset of an attack... frequent twinges in back of my head, neck, behind my eye, and any sip of alcohol throws me into a terrible headache (some of the worst I've ever had).  Not even my Sumatriptan prescription can knock it out, and that's usually successful for me.  Just did a week long dose of Prednisone and haven't noticed much difference.

I'm pretty desperate as I'm getting married in 3.5 weeks and really hope I can get these under control before then.

I've been taking the following on a daily basis for several years now with success - I noted the recent adjustments in parentheses.

-Daily multivitamin
-20,000 -- 25,000 IU Vitamin D3 (bumped it up to 50,000 the past 9 or so days).
-1000 MG Omega-3 Fish Oil  (recently bumped up to 2500 MG)
-(added Vitamin A 1000 IU just this week)

I've been taking CLA pills as a supplement for weight loss recently -- about the past 6 weeks.  No clue if this has had any effect on my headaches but want to mention it.  I'm going to stop taking it immediately.

I haven't taken Magnesium in the past as even the tiniest bit upsets my stomach badly, but I ordered Magnesium Glycinate (150 MG pills) to add to the routine ASAP.  Hopefully this type is easier on my stomach.

Any comments or insight are welcomed and appreciated.  Hoping I can figure this out very quickly.  Thank you in advance!

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Chuffy on May 8th, 2017 at 8:35am
I'm sure Batch will be along in a minute but in the meantime that's quite a big ongoing daily dose  :o I know everyone's different but I only take 5,000iu a day??

Are you also taking the Multi and and the K2?

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on May 8th, 2017 at 1:39pm
Thanks for the reply.  I try to lower that ongoing D3 dose as much as I can without getting a headache... so sometimes I'll drop it to 10,000 IU/day and go as long as possible before bumping it back up.  I notice when I drop below certain thresholds during a cycle of headaches, I will immediately notice the headache pre-cursors coming back.

I'm taking a Daily multivitamin which I believe has K2 in it.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by MDR on May 8th, 2017 at 4:10pm
JT08,

I talked to Batch a few days ago he told me that the pollen count is making my head aches worse he told me add childrens allergy liquid to my regament and it really has helped.

Mark.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by pattik on May 9th, 2017 at 10:02am
First of all, congrats on your upcoming wedding. The previous posters brought up some good points, including the allergy issues. Even sub-clinical allergies can consume your D3, and Batch has suggested many times that taking Benedryl or it's generic equivalent might help. I can't take it during the day, since it knocks me out, but you might try taking 50 mg at bedtime. Also, you should eventually start taking the vitamin K2 Batch includes in the regimen--MK7 or the K2 combo he likes isn't needed for the CH, but it is protective from the high D3 doses. The calcium freed up can run amok without it. I'm hoping you will find magnesium you can tolerate. You've picked a good one. Try splitting the dose into 2-3 times a day always with food--easier on the digestive system. I actually rotate between types or mix them. When I start to lose tolerance, I switch. When you are doing the large loading dose, be sure to increase the magnesium a little too. Like you, I have been able to get by with sumatriptan tabs since being on this regimen. So, good luck,and best wishes on your marriage!

Patti

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on May 9th, 2017 at 12:09pm
Hey JT,

The suggestions to start Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) are spot on...  Try it and you'll be pleasantly surprised...

If you haven't already done so, you need download the latest version of the anti-inflammatory regimen CH preventative treatment protocol at the following link.  Be sure to share a copy with your PCP or neurologist. 

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE

You can also scan the following QR code with your smart phone and it will download a pdf copy of the treatment protocol to your phone.  The QR Scanner app is free.  It takes less than 10 seconds to download and install.

START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on May 9th, 2017 at 1:49pm
Thank you all for your responses.  I started taking Claritin Children's Liquid Allergy medicine last night and this morning.  Is this the right stuff or do I need Benadryl brand?

Magnesium being delivered today so I'll start that ASAP.

Thanks again

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by MDR on May 9th, 2017 at 1:52pm
what your taking should be fine

Mark

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by CH Brain. on May 9th, 2017 at 11:21pm
There seems to be a little confusion on the site with this one.
As "Benadryl" is a trade name and in some countries the product can be a completely different chemical name...
What we are after here is the first generation Anti-histamine called; Diphenhydramine
The trouble is, most pharmacies have moved onto 2nd and 3rd generation antihistamines (there is some talk of 4th generation h1 antagonists too...) and rarely stock the 1st generation ones where you can easily access them. In Australia, Diphenhydramine, to my knowledge, is not sold as an "antihistamine" at all.
It goes by many other names, and is used for other purposes (sleep), depending on what country you're in at the time.

Example; In Australia, "Benadryl" brand will not get you anywhere with regard to CH. Instead we need to ask for a behind-the-counter pharmacy medicine called "SnuzAid".
As Mike NZ has pointed out, going into a pharmacy and asking for a 1st generation antihistamine can raise some eyebrows, but so long as you know what you're looking for (Diphenhydramine) and have some evidence that you're going to take it for CH, either from your GP, specialist or otherwise, most pharmacists I find are quite helpful.

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Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on May 11th, 2017 at 10:24pm
I've been taking Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) past two nights and have felt some relief, although it makes me really groggy next day.

I also have the Claritin Children's Liquid Allergy Non-Drowsy, which is also an antihistamine but w/ ingredient Loratadine.

Wouldn't they do the same thing even if different ingredient -- fight off allergies which are depleting D3? 

I prefer to take the Claritin Non Drowsy but want to make sure this stuff has same before eliminating the Benadryl.

Thank you

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Gypsystormshadow on May 12th, 2017 at 4:38am
I'm starting the regime today as the CH's returned 2 nights ago after a 9 year break.  I'm watching this post with keen interest, so thanks for all the information beautiful people.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on May 12th, 2017 at 9:15am
Hey JT08,

Drowsiness is the price we pay with Diphenhydramine HCL so do not drive while taking it...  You can take it when you're home for the day and right prior to bed. A week's worth should be sufficient.

We need a first-generation antihistamine like Diphenhydramine as they pass through the blood brain barrier to block histamine H1 receptors on neurons throughout the brain including the hypothalamus and trigeminal ganglia... "Non-Drowsy" type antihistamines cannot do this so will be less effective if you're suffering from an allergic reaction...

Once the histamine H1 receptors are blocked, vitamin D3 can do its thing with genetic expression to prevent your CH.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on May 12th, 2017 at 4:33pm
Yep, you were absolutely right.  I skipped the Diphenhydramine last night, and opted for Claritin before getting Batch's latest response this morning.  Got a killer headache mid-day today.  That was after a full 36 hours of relief following 2 nights of Diphenhydramine.

I'm going to take the Diphenhydramine again tonight, and continue for next 5 days.  How will I know when it's OK to come off it?

I'm also doing the frequent Vitamin C as noted in other threads.  I've been seeing an acupuncturist as well - no idea if this helps but I do feel tension relief.  I feel like a headache trigger for me is tension in my neck/head, possibly from working out, sitting at a desk all day, or sleeping on it wrong.

Thanks for everyones help.  I'll report back when there's more news.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on May 12th, 2017 at 6:41pm
Hey Gypsystormshadow,

Good on you for starting the anti-inflammatory regimen...  You won't be sorry... 

Please keep us posted.... There can be a few bumps in the road to a CH pain free existence on this regimen and nearly all are easy to navigate once we know about them.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on May 12th, 2017 at 6:49pm
Hey JT,

A week to 10 days is usually sufficient time on the Diphenhydramine... You'll know if you need to stay on it longer...

That said, if the pollen is still heavy, you many need to stay on it longer...  If that's the case, I take the Children's Allergy Medicine, Liquid Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL)... 12.5 mg in the morning (5 mL in the measuring cap) and another 12.5 mg in the evening work just fine for me. 

I try to hold it in my mouth for 3 to 4 minutes swirling it under my tongue and between cheek and gums to get the sublingual administration...  The only problem is that stuff is very sweet...

Even at the lower dose, Diphenhydramine will make you drowsy so don't drive while taking it... If you need to drive, take one dose when you get home for the day and the second prior to bed.

Take care

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Gypsystormshadow on May 15th, 2017 at 6:54am
Thanks Batch.  It's been 3 days on the anti-inflammatory regime and I'm following the 4 week vitamin D3 schedule.  A bit of a background.  Diagnosed with CH's in 2000 with all the usual suspects of having to take all my own research to the GP (I have been having cluster headaches since I was 12 years old, episodic, 6 - 12 week clusters every 3 to 5 years, diarised) he was great and put me on Ergotamine and I found that this worked but I needed really high do\ses and often - ice works well for me to.  In 2003 I tried Verapamil and 02...both worked well and the CH's stopped in about 6 weeks.  Next cluster was in 2008 and I tried Sumatriptan nasal spray, tablets and injections....I have up to 4 CH's per night and wake with a kip of around 7 or 8 so toxicity was a problem with this med - 02 worked well again.  So now I've been 9 years clear of CH's....YEAH 9 YEARS!  This cluster started on May 8 and I'm waking with them every 2 hours.  Since starting the anti-inflammatory regime I've had shadows, nothing full blown.....

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Mike NZ on May 19th, 2017 at 12:31am
Great that D3 is working well for you.

Are you working off the latest D3 info? This can be found at - START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Chuffy on May 20th, 2017 at 10:54am
JT08, I hope you are getting on top of it.

I must have jinxed myself with my previous reply as shortly after that I got woken up at 1am by shadowing, first time in 5 years!! Took 10,000iu of D3 and went back to sleep. Couple of nights later same thing again so I thought I'd better sort it properly. My 5,000iu a day dose had obviously let my levels drop too low over time.

Anyway, for the last three days I have been taking 20,000iu in the morning and again in the evening and also upped the Magnesium. Got hold of some diphenhydramine hcl which isn't that easy these days in the UK and took 50mg of that a day split into two doses. So far so good, the beast seems to be backing off. Boy that HCL knocks you out  :o

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on May 23rd, 2017 at 1:02pm
Hey Batch,

I did about 7 days of Diphenhydramine and felt a significant improvement which has lasted about 5-6 days.  I still start to get headaches when certain things trigger, but Sumatriptan knocks them out pretty quickly.  I'll take this over the alternative any day.

I'm still on 50,000 IU of D3 a day.  Is it OK to stay at this dose?  I noticed when I brought it down to 40,000 the past 2 days, I'm getting precursors again.

I've been on the 50K dose for an extended period of time... want to make sure that's OK.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Mike NZ on May 23rd, 2017 at 10:55pm
Batch is currently "out of the office" fishing in Alaska, so it'll be a few days before he can respond.

If you've any doubts about the amount of D3 you are taking, talk to your doctor and ask them to order the following blood tests:
  • 25-Hydroxyvitamin D3 [25(OH)D3]. CPT Code 82306. Quest Diagnostics Test Name: 92888-
    QuestAssureD 25-OH Vitamin D (Total), LC/MS/MS. 95% of CHers with active bouts of
    cluster headache will have a 25(OH)D serum concentration ≤ 47 ng/mL, (117.2 nmol/L). Any
    25(OH)D serum concentration < 50 ng/mL, (125 nmol/L) is grounds for starting this regimen.
  • Parathyroid Hormone (PTH) Intact and Total Calcium. CPT codes 83970, 82310. Establish
    baseline.


This info is in this D3 guide - START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by thenucman on May 24th, 2017 at 12:50pm
In the USA, you can even order your own blood test in most areas. They email the lab request and you take it to a local Lab corp office for the blood draw. Email results in a few days.
They don't take insurance, but the test is only $30 and you don't have to see your doctor twice.
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Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on Jun 13th, 2017 at 3:01pm
Hello,

I wanted to check back in here with an update.  I stayed on the 50K IU dose/day through my wedding last week.  It allowed me to get through the last few weeks with no headaches, as I popped a Sumatriptan anytime I felt one coming on even in the slightest (and it worked, which they hadn't been previously).

Over the past 5 days, I dropped back down to 20 IU/day, and have been feeling some discomfort although no full blown headache yet.

I had a blood test yesterday and I'm over 96 ng/mL - to the point where my doctor said it was too high to even be tested accurately.  My calcium levels are fine.

But with level that high, I was still at risk for getting headaches, and had been getting them regularly about a month ago.  Any insight on why this would be? 

Reminder, I took the Benadryl for about 10 days (with a few day break in between), which did bring relief, but it's just not realistic for me to stay on that - it knocks me out, makes me groggy and unable to function at work the next day.

Any additional insight is appreciated.  Thanks so much


Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Jun 13th, 2017 at 6:21pm
Hey JT,

Interesting question and comments...  For starters, there's nothing wrong or dangerous about a 25(OH)D serum concentration of 96 ng/mL...  or even higher as long as your serum calcium remains within limits. There's also no reason to drop your vitamin D3 intake below 10,000 IU/day... particularly if CH symptoms are present.

I maintain my 25(OH)D between 130 to 160 ng/mL from March through July to account for the heavy pollen season.  My PCP just smiles during my annual physical, usually in April, enters my 25(OH)D lab results in my medical record and says... "As long as your total calcium stays withing its normal reference range and your PTH is in the lower third of its normal reference range... you know what you're doing."

You need to understand we live in an uber litigeous society where physicians need to play a CYA over matters like this to avoid scurrilous medical law suits by ambulance chasing lawyers.

Print out a copy of the anti-inflammatory regimen treatment protocol and give it to your doctor...  That way you'll both be singing from the same sheet music...

It doesn't help when pseudo government organizations like the National Academy of Medicine (NAM), Health and Medicine Division (HMD) formerly called the Institute of Medicine (IOM) sets the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for Vitamin D3 at 600 IU/day from birth to 70 years of age and the Upper Level Intake (UL) level for vitamin D3 at 4000 IU/day.

You don't need to be a member of Mensa, the high IQ society, to connect the dots to see where Big Pharma appears to be waging a long-standing major campaign against the use of vitamin D3 for other than maintenance of bone mineral density.  Their minions on K Street make sure key members of Congress write legislation preventing physicians from publicly stating the health benefits of vitamins and minerals like vitamin D3 in the treatment of many non-skeletal disorders.  Meanwhile these laws allow Big Pharma to flood TV with commercials for very expensive biologics like Humira (Adalimumab) when 12 cents worth of vitamin D3 would be equally or more effective in the treatment of the same disorders with no adverse reactions...

So here's the bottom line... Vitamin D3 is very safe...  in spite of Big Pharma's obfuscation and misinformation about the health benefits of Vitamin D3... Yes, you can take too much vitamin D3, but then drinking too much water can be fatal... 

In the history of the FDA's Adverse Events Reporting System (FAERS), not one death has been attributed to vitamin D3... You cannot say that for many of the Rx and OTC medications flooding the market or used to treat CH...  See the following list from a 2015 FAERS report.


Deaths due to VERAPAMIL                 - 229
Deaths due to DEPAKOTE                  - 168
Deaths due to TOPAMAX                   -  66
Deaths due to LITHIUM CARBONATE         -  56
Deaths due to LYRICA                    - 703
Deaths due to GABAPENTIN (Neurontin)    - 202
Deaths due to VALPROIC ACID             - 194
Deaths due to BACLOFEN                  - 102
Deaths due to PREDNISONE                - 513
Deaths due to PREDNISOLONE              - 163
Deaths due to COUMADIN                  - 458
Deaths due to IMITREX                   -  32
Deaths due to INDOMETHACIN              -  18
Deaths due to OCTREOTIDE                -1317
Deaths due to CALAN                     - 208
Deaths due to CLOMIPHENE CITRATE - 8 Intra-uterine Deaths
Deaths due to PROPRANOLOL HCL          -  67
Deaths due to ATENOLO                  -  62
Deaths due to AMITRIPTYLINE            - 184
Deaths due to PAXIL                    - 357
Deaths due to LIPITOR                  - 865
Deaths due to CRESTOR                  - 238
Deaths due to NEXIUM                   - 357
Deaths due to AMBIEN                   - 243
Deaths due to PRILOSEC                 -  0
Deaths due to DIHYDROERGOTAMINE        -  0
Deaths due to OXYGEN                   -  0

Over The Counter NSAIDs                  
Deaths due to NAPROXEN (Aleve)  - 142
Deaths due to ASPIRIN           - 645
Deaths due to TYLENOL           - 964
Deaths due to EXCEDRIN          - 500
Deaths due to IBUPROFEN         - 661

Over The Counter Supplements/Nutrients
Deaths due to MELATONIN       -  0
Deaths due to MAGNESIUM OXIDE -  0
Deaths due to CALCIUM CITRATE - Not Listed
Deaths due to BORON       -  Not Listed
Deaths due to VITAMIN A (Retinol)  -  6
Deaths due to VITAMIN B (Complex)  -  2
Deaths due to VITAMIN B 12 -  0
Deaths due to VITAMIN C    -  0
Deaths due to Vitamin E    -  2
Deaths due to VITAMIN D3   -  0
VITAMIN D3 TOXICITY        -  2
Deaths due to VITAMIN K    -  2
Deaths due to VITAMIN K2   - Not Listed
Deaths due to ZINC OXIDE   - Not Listed


There's a very recent study published in the   Journal Dermato-Endocrinology Volume 9, 2017 - Issue 1, that should put your doctor's fears of vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity to rest.

Evaluation of vitamin D3 intakes up to 15,000 international units/day and serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations up to 300 nmol/L on calcium metabolism in a community setting

S.M. Kimball, N. Mirhosseini & M.F. Holick
Dermato-Endocrinology
April 13, 2017

Abstract

Supplementation by the general public with vitamin D at doses above the Tolerable Upper Level of Intake (UL) is becoming quite common. The objective of the current analysis was to characterize the effect of vitamin D supplementation at doses up to 15,000 IU/d in a community-based program on vitamin D status, calcium homeostasis as well as on kidney, liver and immune function. We evaluated data collected for 3,882 participants in a community program for whom there were blood measurements at program entry and at follow-up within 6–18 months between 2013 and 2015. Participants were supplemented with a wide range of vitamin D doses (1,000 – 15,000 IU/d) aimed at achieving serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] levels of at least 100 nmol/L. Serum 25(OH)D concentrations up to 300 nmol/L  (120 ng/mL) were achieved without perturbation of calcium homeostasis or incidence of toxicity. Hypercalcemia and hypercalciuria were not related to an increase in 25(OH)D concentrations nor vitamin D dose. To achieve serum 25(OH)D levels >100 nmol/L on average, required vitamin D intakes of 6,000 IU/d for normal Body Mass Index (BMI), 7,000 IU/d for overweight and 8,000 IU/d for obese. Doses of vitamin D in excess of 6,000 IU/d were required to achieve serum 25(OH)D concentrations above 100 nmol/L, especially in individuals who were overweight or obese without any evidence of toxicity. Serum 25(OH)D concentrations up to 300 nmol/L (120 ng/mL) were found to be safe.

Were you taking the Benadry tablets or Children's Liquid Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) Allergy Medicine? 

I've found that 12.5 mg of the Children's Liquid Benadryl in the morning and another 12.5 mg in the evening causes a lot less drowsiness while still helping vitamin D3 to do its thing preventing my CH...

Regarding your doctor's comments on the assay method used to measure serum 25(OH)D being unreliable...  The gold standard for the 25(OH)D lab test is Liquid Chromatography Dual Mass Spectrometry (LC-MS/MS).  He can order this lab test from Quest Diagnostics using the following CPT Code and Quest Diagnostic Test Name:

25-Hydroxyvitamin D3 [25(OH)D3]. CPT Code 82306. Quest Diagnostics Test Name: 92888-QuestAssureD 25-OH Vitamin D (Total), LC/MS/MS.

This assay method is accurate up to 512 ng/mL for Vitamin D3 and 512 ng/mL for vitamin D2.

I realize this reply is a bit long, but I hope it helps...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by pattik on Jun 13th, 2017 at 6:35pm
Hi JT,
I had a similar experience to yours regarding a blood test being over the lab's limit and too high to measure accurately.  If you had a blood draw at a medical facility, I would suggest getting a home self-test kit. I have used The Vitamin D Council's test a couple of times, as well as another company's home test.
The blood spot test you do at home will have a greater value range than the blood draw you just had done. Plus, I think it's a good idea to do this test a couple times a year. It will help you to learn what numbers are right for your personal situation.  Batch has useful information about viamin D toxicity, and having numbers you can trust will help you to make dosage  decisions. 
After four years mostly pain free, I'm now having CH trying to return. Keeping it at bay is challenging--always a moving target. But knowing what range you need your blood test numbers to be in can be really helpful.

Patti

Edited to add a thanks to Batch for posting that new toxicity study.  :)

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:09am
Hey Patti,

Thanks for the kind words... Your comments on the home blood spot test kit for 25(OH)D are right on target as are your observations that this method of measuring serum 25(OH)D yields higher results that some of the other medical lab test assay methods.

There's a good reason for this.  The home blood spot test kit for 25(OH)D uses the same assay technology as Quest Diagnostics, the gold standard LC-MS/MS. 

When the same blood draw sample is tested with the DiaSorin (LIAISON) Assay method that uses chemiluminescent immunoassay (CLIA) technology for the quantitative determination of 25(OH)D (a total of 25(OH)D3 and 25(OH)D2) and the LC-MS/MS assay method that measures the same total of 25(OH)D3 and 25(OH)D2, they yield different results with the LC-MS/MS higher by as much as 20 ng/mL.

Before you get confused over all this... allow me to muddy the water even further. The LC-MS/MS is slightly more accurate with a concordance correlation coefficient (CCC) of 0.99 and bias of 0.56 μg/L (1.4 nmol/L) where the DiaSorin CLIA assay method has a CCC of 0.97 and a mean bias of 1.1 μg/L (2.7 nmo/L)... Ultimately, they both meet the coefficient of variation (CV) limit of acceptability of < 10%.

Bottom line... Either assay method will work just fine as long as you stick with it for two or more consecutive lab tests.   That said, there is an upper limit on readability for the chemiluminescent immunoassay (CLIA) assay method... It can only measure total 25(OH)D up to 167 ng/mL where the LC-MS/MS can measure 25(OH)D3 serum concentrations up to 512 ng/mL.

That might not appear to be a big thing for most CHers who maintain their 25(OH)D between 80 and 100 ng/mL as suggested...  I'm a little different... well... maybe a lot different... 

Having spent the last 6 years reading every vitamin D3 study listed in ClinicalTrials.gov (over 830 of them since 2000) and meeting with or exchanging email with some of the giants in the field of vitamin D3 therapy like Dr. Robert Heaney, Dr. Cedric Garland, Dr. Reinhold Vieth and Dr. Cicero Coimbra, I'm very comfortable with long term vitamin D3 doses up to 20,000 IU/day. 

I'm also comfortable with vitamin D3 loading doses up to 50,000 IU/day for upwards of two weeks and a 25(OH)D serum concentration up to 200 ng/mL (500 nmol/L) as long as my serum vitamin D3 stays within its normal reference range of 8.5 to 10.5 mg/dL and PTH in the lower third of its normal reference range (17 to 70 pg/mL).   

In short, I'm not a risk taker...  I read and comprehend...  I listen to and read what the real vitamin D3 experts say.  I also listen to what my body is trying to tell me... I know when everything is functioning properly and I know when something isn't right. 

As CHers, we've become very adept at listening to our bodies...  How many times have we sat there in the throws of a major head banger with a red hot poker jammed through the temple, eyelid swollen and tearing, nose running like a faucet... and we knew instantly when the CH pain started to diminish even the slightest as that signaled the beginning of the end of that attack.

We've learned a lot about our disorder in the last six years and we've compiled enough evidence to say with confidence, that a CHer with active CH is vitamin D3 insufficient/deficient and that vitamin D3 with the cofactors should be able to prevent CH.

I've used data from the online survey of over 200 CHers taking this regimen to prevent their CH and comments from many more CHers here at CH.com to fine tune the anti-inflammatory regimen... 

As a result, the survey data for 2016 indicates better than 90% of CHers taking the survey that year experienced a significant reduction in the frequency of their CH from an average of 3/day down to 3/week.  Better than 70% of the CHers reporting in 2016 experienced a complete cessation of CH attacks... That's all in the first 30 days from start of regimen... 

I attribute this increase in efficacy to the improved availability of the anti-inflammatory regimen treatment protocol, the use of the 2-week vitamin D3 loading schedule and the addition of a week to 10 day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL).

Sooo... if you're taking this regimen and still have lingering CH symptoms... Tune the regimen...  As long as the 25(OH)D serum concentration is between 80 and 100 ng/mL your vitamin D3 intake is adequate.  After that it's easy to bump the doses of Omega-3 Fish Oil, double the magnesium dose to 800 mg/day split am/pm and add a week to ten day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) at 50 mg/day split 25 mg in the am and pm.  Just be careful and not drive if at all possible.  If you do need to drive, take 25 mg when you're home for the day and another 25 mg prior to bed...  You'll sleep like a baby...

If there's no joy after all that, go back on the vitamin B 100 complex, start taking vitamin C at 1000 mg every two hours throughout the day and if there's still no joy, start a course of curcumin at 500 mg/day with meals.

If you've had an infection and your doctor put you on an antibiotic, be sure to start a course of probiotic... 

The reason for this is simple...  The human gut is colonized with friendly colonies of bacteria and biota called the microbiome. It contains roughly 70% of our immune system...  The antibiotic is indiscriminate, so has wiped out the friendly colonies of symbiotic bacteria in the microbiome...  This leaves us with a weak immune system and usually a case of the runs... The probiotic helps recolonize the microbiome... In short, a happy gut is a healthy gut...

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by pattik on Jun 14th, 2017 at 10:09am

Batch wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:09am:

I also listen to what my body is trying to tell me... I know when everything is functioning properly and I know when something isn't right.


I have given this part of using this regimen a lot of thought. The home test I took in March was 120 Ng, and I have had tests come back higher. At that point everything was great. But just a few weeks later, while still on an elevated dose of 15K/day, a CH cycle started up, albeit pretty mild. When it wouldn't shake off (and worsened a little), I started the 40K dose for a few days, and things are now improving.

I wish we knew all the health conditions/inflammation which can hurt this regimen's effectiveness. I have my share of age-related issues, and when my chronic back or shoulder pain increases, I can be pretty certain my D3 levels are dropping, and the odds are better for a CH attack. That's why I have to be so cognizant of minor changes I experience. And that's why I'm also wondering what a normal and safe blood level is for someone like me who has multiple issues using up the D3. Who knows, maybe 120 Ng or even higher is normal and safe under certain conditions.


Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by LasVegas on Jun 22nd, 2017 at 2:59am
Yo Batch,

The pdf link within this thread states Magnesium recommendation is chloride, magnesium malate, magnesium glycinate or
magnesium citrate.....I thought Oxide was preferred? Please clarify.

Also, which type of Calcium is best if multi-vitamin does not contain enough mg dosage? I'm pretty sure you recommended Citrate, but please clarify that too.

Lastly, how was the fishing trip? Photos please!

Thanks ole buddy ;)

-Gregg in Las Vegas

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:13pm
Hello! I’ve gone pain free since my wedding in June.  I think changing of seasons has brought my headaches back just the last few weeks. 

I’ve been on a loading dose of 80K IU of D3 because I’m desperate.  Still taking everything else on the regimen except K2. Could that be a difference maker?

I considered taking Benadryl but I have no allergies at all and the pollen count is currently zero in my area.  I hate taking Benadryl because it slows me way down and hinders my work.

Any other suggestions on how to kick this cluster quickly?  Thanks!

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Mike NZ on Jan 12th, 2018 at 12:46am
Getting married is a new preventive - congrats!

Vitamin K2 could be what is making the difference. Add it and see.

With Benadryl, consider adding it if the K2 doesn't help. It is possible that you have an allergy that you're not aware of.

Benadryl has a half live of 8-10 hours, so try taking it when you get home from work, that should avoid it impacting your work.

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Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Jan 12th, 2018 at 4:11am
Wow! Great posts and great questions... I'll try to address them in order...

Patti, as I indicated in the earlier post, I'm comfortable with a 25(OH)D serum concentration up to 200 ng/mL...  I've had it that high for a few weeks with no problems.  My serum calcium remained well within its normal reference range and my PTH was in the lower third of its normal reference range.  I'm a chronic CHer so have maintained an average 25(OH)D serum concentration at 140 ±50 ng/mL taking an average vitamin D3 dose of 20,000 IU/day for the last three years.  This gets me through the high pollen season with only a few days of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL).  My PCP is ok with my 25(OH)D in this range as long as my calcium and PTH remain in the green.

Accordingly, I would work with my PCP to set up prescriptions for the before and after labs of serum 25(OH)D, calcium and PTH then start titrating the vitamin D3 dose up from the present maintenance dose by 5,000 IU every 3 days until completely pain free for 3 days then stay and that dose for at least 15 days before getting another set of labs.  It's also important to drink 2.5 liters of water a day if you're going to push your 25(OH)D above 120 ng/mL.  This helps flush excess calcium from the kidneys.

Yo Greg, Howzit in Idaho? Great question regarding the calcium supplement, which calcium salt works best and what I take...  Nearly all the vitamin D3 experts say calcium chloride works best primarily due to the low incidence of osmotic diarrhea.  In order after that come magnesium glycinate and magnesium oxide.  The consensus holds that magnesium citrate has the highest incidence of osmotic diarrhea. 

I should point out that I've tried all of the above or I wouldn't suggest them in the treatment protocol. I happen to take the Nature Made High Potency 400 mg liquid gelcaps containing magnesium oxide... I've not had any problems with them, but then I've a cast iron GI tract...  What I've found over the years is if I miss a dose of magnesium, I'll start getting hand/finger and leg cramps. Our bodies consume magnesium during the enzymatic reactions that hydroxylate vitamin D3 to 25(OH)D, and 25(OH)D to 1,25(OH)2D3.  Without magnesium supplements, we can easily end up with a calcium-magnesium imbalance and that leads to muscle cramps.  The cramps clear in a couple hours after taking the magnesium.

Hey JT, you're my kind of CHer... I've taken 100,000 IU of vitamin D3 in a single dose after one of my 25(OH)D burn down tests where I stopped taking vitamin D3 until I got hit... Just don't stay at 80,000 IU/day vitamin D3 for too long... and be sure to drink 2.5 liters of water a day...  A trip to your PCP for labs of your serum 25(OH)D, calcium and PTH is also in order after you've stabilized at a new maintenance dose for a couple weeks.

Have you completed the 3-month course of vitamin B 50 Complex?  This was a topic of interest with Dr. Stasha Gominak at the 20th Conference on Vitamin D3 last March in Orlando, FL.  She now suggests her headache patients stay on the vitamin B 50 complex year round.  If you're taking the Kirkland brand 50+ Mature Multi, you should be getting sufficient amounts of the B vitamins...  The Mature Multi formulation also contains chromium picolinate recommended by Dr Coimbra in his vitamin D3 regimen used by MS patients to prevent outbreaks.

Regarding the Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL)... Many allergic reactions are subclinical, i.e., no outward or obvious symptoms yet they're still there triggering mast cells to degranulate dumping histamine into your system... The histamine triggers neurons within the trigeminal ganglia to express calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP).  This is the nasty neuropeptide that stimulates neurogenic inflammation and the pain we know as CH... Accordingly a first-generation antihistamine like Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) crosses the blood brain barrier to block histamine H1 receptors and this stems the release of CGRP.  25 mg of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) every four hours during the day for a few days will tell you if an allergic reaction is part of your problem in going CH pain free.  Just be careful and not drive while taking this much Benadryl as it will make you drowsy...  If you need to drive during the day, take 50 mg when you get home for the day and another 50 mg at bed time... If there's no joy... i.e., favorable changes in your CH patterns after 3 to 4 days of Benadryl, discontinue...  I'd also start taking vitamin C at a 1000 mg every 4 hours throughout the day to see what happens. Vitamin C is a great antiviral, antibacterial and antifungal agent.

The other items on the check list include starting a good probiotic and a 1000 mg/day Turmeric (Curcumin).

Hope this answers the questions...

Take care and please keep us posted. 

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by pattik on Jan 15th, 2018 at 10:22am

Batch wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 4:11am:

Accordingly, I would work with my PCP to set up prescriptions for the before and after labs of serum 25(OH)D, calcium and PTH then start titrating the vitamin D3 dose up from the present maintenance dose by 5,000 IU every 3 days until completely pain free for 3 days then stay and that dose for at least 15 days before getting another set of labs. 


Batch--thanks for the feedback. When I made that last post on June 14th, I didn't yet realize that I was entering a full-blown CH cycle. I think I was in a little denial from the lovely four year remission from the D3, as well as the time of year (summers are very unusual). What was also unusual, was the length. My previous cycles have been consistently 6 weeks, and this one lasted eight weeks. That might be a subject for another thread. I tried some loading doses with only short-term improvements. So titrating up will be a new thing to try.

My recent blood test came in at 118 ng after being on 15,000 mg for most of 2017. I'm not that worried about this level, except for the fact that this last cycle showed up anyway. But I have lots of age-related inflammation issues, so I'm kind of flying blind with figuring out what is appropriate and safe.

Thanks again for the input. Much appreciated.

Patti

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on Sep 20th, 2018 at 11:03am
Hey Batch,

Replying to my original post from last year - headaches are back as of the last 3 weeks and this is the worst they've been since last May (my original post).

I've been on the D3 regimen continuously as it's the only thing that keeps me sane.  I was around 30K-35K IUs pretty regularly over the course of the past year (anything below that I started to suffer).  As of the last 3 weeks I've been at 70K IU.  I'm honestly considering bumping up to 100K IU to see if I can knock it out.

I'm also on the other vitamins/supps like magnesium, fish oil, vitamin K, vitamin A, multi-vitamin.  Just started the vitamin B50 complex two days ago and have started to pop Vitamin C throughout the day.

I've tried the allergy meds in the past and it absolutely kills my work days, even when I take it the night before.

Is there anything else I can be trying?  Is it possible I've built up a tolerance to Vitamin D3?  Is there any way to reset that tolerance so it's more effective for me going forward?

Thanks!


Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Sep 21st, 2018 at 3:58pm
Hey JT,

I know what you're going through...  Been there... Had the same thing happen to me while fishing in Pelican, AK last June... Clearly not fun.  In my case, it was exposure to heavy doses of mold spores.

The first three weeks of my month long fishing trip to Pelican were spent blissfully CH pain free taking 10,000 IU/day vitamin D3 plus the cofactors...  Then we had an electrician rewire the circuit box.  In doing so he removed the sheet rock around the circuit box.  That night I got whacked three times. 

I didn't connect the dots for the next 4 days and the frequency of my CH jumped from 3 to 6 hits/night.  50,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and 200 mg/day Diphenhydramine proved useless.  Had it not been for oxygen therapy with hyperventilation that aborted my CH in an average of 7 minutes, I would have been in deep ka ka.  I finally took a look at the circuit box and found the internal wall space loaded with a thick layer of gray furry mold.  The house was built in 1951 and the roof had leaked at times.

I'd brought along some simple saline nasal spray and a bottle of Bio-Tech D3-50 (50,000 IU water soluble vitamin D3).  I rinsed my nasal passages a couple times with the saline nasal spray and took one of the Bio-Tech D3-50 capsules the night before the Beaver sea plane dash and splash back to Juneau and Alaska Airline flight to Seattle.  I slept like a baby that night.  I've continued to use the Bio-Tech D3-50 at one capsule a week and have been CH pain free ever since.

The bottom line to this story is allergic reactions to CHers are like kryptonite to Superman... Accordingly, I wouldn't take the vitamin D3 dose any higher.  Your problem is more than likely an allergic reaction and depending on the allergen exposure level, even Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) will be ineffective.

Here's a list of what I did to solve this problem.

1.  Get on amazon and order some Bio-Tech D3-50.  Overnight delivery might be prudent if you can get it. Try one 50,000 IU capsule of the D3-50 every three days as an initial dose.  If you stay CH pain free, reduce the dose to one capsule every 5 days then once a week.

2.  Pick up some saline nasal spray and rinse your nasal passages twice a night.  I haven't tried one yet but one of the Navage nasal irrigation systems might be helpful.  This reduces the exposure to airborne allergens that collect in the nasal passages.

3.  Give yourself a vacation and get out of your home for a couple days.

If any of the above actions cuts the frequency of your CH, start looking for the source of the allergens. 
  a. Replace the air filters in your home air handler.

  b. Pick up a hypoallergenic (dust mite proof) mattress cover and new pillows.  Wash the sheets and pillow cases frequently and have the blankets and bed covers dry cleaned.  Lots of people are allergic to dust mite poo.  It's everywhere in the bedding and bedroom.

  c. Make sure your vacuum has a new hypoallergenic dust bag

  d. A hypoallergenic air filter in the bedroom is the next thing to try.

These steps have proved effective for other CHers with our problem so please keep us posted.

Take care,
V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on Sep 21st, 2018 at 5:52pm
Thanks as always, Batch.  Placing the order now and will start nasal spray asap tonight.  Coincidentally leaving town tomorrow for a few days so fortuitous timing.  Do I take the D3-50 in addition to my usual dose of D3 or is that a replacement?  The 50K dose will last 3 days?


Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Sep 21st, 2018 at 8:11pm
Hey JT,

Thanks for the reply. The Bio-Tech D3-50 is a replacement...  I've found it to be faster acting (I hesitate to call it an abortive, but it knocked down a CH in less than 20 minutes) and more effective at a lower dose.

I found one D3-50 was effective every 3 days (72 hours) after flying back from Pelican, AK so tapered the dose by extending the time between doses to one capsule every 5 days, then 7 days.  I've gone two weeks without taking a D3-50 on two separate stints without a CH hit, but still made it a point to take all the cofactors, magnesium in particular. 

I've settled on a D3-50 once a week and will stay at that dose for a month then go in for labs for my serum 25(OH)D, calcium and PTH to get a good sensing of the response at this dose.

I suspect the change in venue and nasal rinse with saline nasal spray will have a significant effect in lowering the frequency of your CH...

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by pattik on Sep 27th, 2018 at 10:42am

Batch wrote on Sep 21st, 2018 at 8:11pm:

I've settled on a D3-50 once a week and will stay at that dose for a month then go in for labs for my serum 25(OH)D, calcium and PTH to get a good sensing of the response at this dose.


Hi Batch.
I'm trying this new D3-50 too. Please share your reaction to this new form after you get tested. I'm trying one every 5 days, and my fat-based D3 dose has been 15K/day. I'm interested to know if a smaller dose is more effective than the fat-based version for you. Thanks.
Patti

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Sep 27th, 2018 at 3:38pm
Pattik,

I've found the water soluble vitamin D3 to be more effective at a lower dose than the liquid soft gel formulations.

I was getting hammered by CH 5 to 6 times a night due to an allergic reaction to mold spores. 25,000 to 30,000 IU vitamin D3/day liquid soft gels plus 200 mg/day Benadryl proved ineffective.  Had it not been for oxygen therapy with hyperventilation, I would have been in the hurt locker.  I switched to the Bio-Tech D3-50 as my supply of the 5,000 iU vitamin D3 soft gels was running low.  I slept like a baby that night even with the mold spores still floating around our fishing cabin.

I went 3 days without any vitamin D3 (an average of 16.6 IU/day) then started to feel the onset of a CH so took another 50,000 IU water soluble vitamin D3 capsule.  The CH shadow vanished in less than 30 minutes.  I flew home the next day so waited 5 days before taking another dose of vitamin D3.  As I indicated earlier, I've been taking one of the 50,000 IU water soluble vitamin D3 capsules/week ever since and have remained CH pain free.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JennaP on Sep 27th, 2018 at 4:29pm
Paging Batch
I was sent here from the fb page. I have no idea how to start a new thread and it wouldn’t let me message you, so I’m highjacking this one (sorry everyone who is receiving alerts on here)
My question is....are verapamil and d3 a good combo? I’m kind of new to both. Reading the vit d wiki I saw someone had an issue with the calcium and magnesium making the verapamil not work....maybe? Tips? Does it just depend on the person? I feel like I maybe have a week tops before my head goes nuclear and I’m desperately trying to stop it. My water soluble d3 will be here today but I have been loading 50,000 with my old stuff for the last two days (along with everything else). Also turmeric will be in the amazon package coming tomorrow. Can’t get into the dr til next Thursday and I’ve moved to a new city so I’m jumping in without testing my levels. Should I throw Benadryl in there? Should I nix the verapamil completely? Had it rx’d the for the first time last CH (may) but chickened out on taking it ( I was breastfeeding at the time). I can’t figure out how people are taking verapamil for episodic CH? I’m too scared of becoming chronic (and/or needing a pacemaker) to take it daily 365....mine are not predictable enough though to know exactly when to start to be ahead of the headache by much. I saw some people combine it with prednisone...so is predinose killing the headache until the verapamil kicks in? That’s one of the very few prescriptions I have not tried yet, should I ask for prednisone at the dr appt next week? Should I just take everything I mentioned??? :D honestly tho I very much hate taking medication of any kind but DAMN I really really really do not want this headache to kick in so I’m desperate. Thank you in advance for everything you do!

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Sep 27th, 2018 at 6:28pm
Hey Jenna,

Great questions and welcome aboard CH.com.  In nearly 8 years, there's been no complaints from CHers taking both the anti-inflammatory regimen with vitamin D3 at 10,000 IU/day and verapamil...  Same goes for magic mushrooms should you decide to go in that direction.

The only possible side effect between the anti-inflammatory regimen and verapamil, deals with the calcium in this regimen that may lower the effectiveness of verapamil... if too much calcium is taken...

Most CHers find the anti-inflammatory regimen works so well to prevent CH, they eventually stop taking verapamil.

It sounds like you're off to a good start with the 12-Day vitamin D3 loading schedule.  I would switch to the Bio-Tech D3-50 as soon as they arrive.  When you complete the 12-day loading schedule at 50,000 IU/day vitamin D3 for 12 days, lower the vitamin D3 dose by extending the dosing interval to one 50,000 IU water soluble vitamin D3 capsule every 5 days.  That will work out to an average dose of 10,000 IU/day.

A little background on the 12-day vitamin D3 loading schedule.  There are a couple studies where people with a vitamin D3 deficiency were given a single oral dose of 600,000 IU of vitamin D3.  In three days, their serum vitamin D3 gained 60 ng/mL on top of their starting 25(OH)D serum concentration.  No adverse events reported. 

The following chart illustrates the advantage of the 12-Day vitamin D3 loading schedule with respect to achieving a therapeutic 25(OH)D level of 80 ng/mL rapidly.

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As you can see, the time course 25(OH)D response to a vitamin D3 dose of 10,000 IU/day for a CHer deficient in vitamin D3 could take several months to reach the therapeutic serum concentration of 80 ng/mL where it only takes two weeks using the 12-Day loading schedule.

BTW, turning chronic is not as bad as it sounds as long as you've oxygen therapy at the ready and take the anti-inflammatory regimen.

Hope this helps.  Please keep us posted and do let us know if you have any problems or have any additional questions... 

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JennaP on Sep 27th, 2018 at 9:30pm
Thank you so much I will definitely switch as soon as they get here (love that sweet sweet free amazon one day shipping lol). So you said nothing wrong with the verapamil and 10,000 IU but I’ve already popped two verapamil today and I’m still loading with 50,000 😬 hope that’s ok. Is that a no to the Benadryl? I don’t keep up on the message boards (obviously) and that’s something new to me that I’ve seen mentioned several times in my search for answers about vit d3 and verapamil. And thoughts on prednisone? If I have taken my verapamil soon enough I wouldn’t need the prednisone right? Or should I not be taking the verapamil at all in case the vit d3 doesn’t stop it.... in that case would it be preferable to do the predinose to verapamil routine instead of verapamil alone? As much as I would love to bet the farm all on the d3 (and I have my fingers crossed) I want to make sure I come at this the best way.
And idk about that being chronic bit lol I don’t have much luck with medications. For some reason I can never kill a cluster with MM, at most I get a pain free night the night I take them. Really just desperately seeking a preventative instead of abortive.....I might try microdosing between cycles and see if they work better for me that way

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JennaP on Sep 27th, 2018 at 9:58pm
Oh! And: I’m taking the Kirkland mature multi...that doesn’t qualify as too much calcium does it?
Also: Ajovy? Aimovig? Saw these migraine medicines mentioned on the fb group...thoughts? Mentioned by what seemed to be a trusted dr that is familiar with CH on the page.

Many thanks always!

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Sep 27th, 2018 at 11:39pm
Jenna,

I chose the Kirkland 50+ Mature Multi for this regimen as it only has 220 mg of calcium and most of the other vitamin D3 cofactors needed in Vitamin D3 pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics in one daily tablet.  I've taken it for nearly 7 years.

As far as the anti CGRP monoclonal antibodies (mAbs) like Ajovy (Femanezumab) and Aimovig (Erenumab) go in preventing migraines... My analysis of their RCT results and the alternative, vitamin D3, indicates $1.50/month worth of vitamin D3 is slightly more effective in reducing monthly migraine days than the $1,725 to $1,800/month mAbs...  You can do your own cost effectiveness analysis...

As far as Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) goes, I would only take it if I hadn't responded to at least the first 5 to 7 days of the 12-Day vitamin D3 loading schedule. No response in that amount of time is a likely indication of an allergic reaction. 

An allergic reaction to CHers is like kryptonite to Super Man.  It makes nearly all forms of CH intervention ineffective.  If adding the Diphenhydramine does work to reduce the frequency of CH, start looking for the allergen causing the problem avoid exposure to it.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on Nov 19th, 2019 at 4:21pm
Hey Batch,

I'm replying again to my ongoing thread so you have the history if needed. I've been headache free for 9+ months using the D3 regimen. As of 3 weeks ago, I started getting headaches again pretty regularly. Usually happens to me when the seasons start to change.

I'm still on the regimen and have been forced to up my D3 to 90K IUs per day (D3-50 + 4 10K liquigels) as of about 2-3 weeks ago. As soon as I reduce by even 10K, I get hit. I added in B50 Complex, been using saline nasal spray 2x day, washed the sheets and changed air filter. I'm desperate again - any additional thoughts? Benadryl seems to help slightly when I'm on it but it absolutely destroys my productivity. I wake up super groggy and out of it no matter when I take it or how much I take. Can't be doing it and going to work next day.

Any additional recommendations?  I do have a blood test scheduled in early December with my doctor. I also have a dose of Aimovig at home but not sure it's worth it + side effects. I've never tried it before.

Thanks as always.

JT

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Nov 21st, 2019 at 12:58pm
Hey JT,

Sorry the CH beast has been jumping ugly.  What you're experiencing happens from time to time to all of us taking the anti-inflammatory regimen.  It's likely due to an allergic reaction.  This time of year the culprit allergen is likely leaf mold spores but it could be due to dietary sources like wheat products.

The best course of action is to start a vitamin D3 loading schedule at 50,000 IU/day and continue at this dose until you experience a significant reduction in the frequency of your CH or a lasting pain free response for at least 48 hours.  At that point you can drop back to your usual maintenance dose of vitamin D3. Remember to double the magnesium dose to 800 mg/day split 40 mg with breakfast and 400 mg with the evening meal. while loading D3. 

30 days after starting this loading schedule, see your PCP/GP for labs of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH.  As long as your serum calcium remains within its normal reference range, there is no vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity.  It's best to have your PCP/GP write the lab orders for the nearest Quest Diagnostics.  They us the Liquid Chromatography Dual Mass Spectroscopy (LC-MS/MS) assay method.  It has a maximum reading of 512 ng/mL where the DiaSorin assay is only good to 117.4 ng/mL.

The Quest Diagnostic labs you want are:

25-Hydroxyvitamin D3 [25(OH)D3].  Quest Diagnostics Test Name: 92888 - QuestAssureD 25-OH Vitamin D (Total), LC/MS/MS CPT Code 82306.

Parathyroid Hormone (PTH) Intact and Total Calcium. CPT codes 83970, 82310.

Taking Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) at 25 mg every four hours throughout the day for a max of 10 days might help.  Just be careful and not drive as this much Diphenhydramine will make you drowsy.  If you need to drive or be sharp as a tack duringu the day, wait until you're home then take 50 mg as you walk through the door and another 50 mg at bedtime.

It's essential to take all the supplements in this regimen within 10 to 20 minutes after finishing the largest meal of the day.  Stomach acid will be highest at this point and that helps ensure these supplements are properly broken down for absorption when the reach the small intestine. 

Diet and in particular sugar and wheat products (bread, pasta, crackers, cookies and pizza) should be avoided completely until you've been back CH pain free for at least a week or two.  Even then I'd avoid all sugars and limit wheat products.  I would also start a course of a good probiotic.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:30pm
Thanks, Batch. I’ve been taking the Benadryl for about 8-9 days. Only 50mg or so per day but it’s worked great. Pain free for the most part. I stopped taking it today and headaches came back. How long can I stay on the Benadryl? And is it important to be at that every 4 hours dose you mentioned even if I’m getting results with less? Thanks!

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Dec 4th, 2019 at 6:34am
Hey JT,

Thanks for the feedback.  That your CH came back when you stopped the Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) is actuall a good sign.  It tells us you're battling an allergic reaction to something in your environment or the food you're eating.

The solution that has worked best for CHers in your situation is to start loading vitamin D3 at 50,000 IU/day and continue loading until you've experienced at least 24 hours CH pain free.  If you haven't done so, many CHers have found switching to the Bio-Tech D3-50 water soluble 50,000 IU vitamin D3 capsules cut the time to CH pain free results.  The D3-50 capsules are faster acting with a higher bioequivalence in elevating serum 25(OH)D3 than the same dose of the oil-based liquid softgel vitamin D3 formulations.

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Be sure to double the magnesium intake from 400 mg/day to 800 mg/day split 400 mg with breakfast and 400 mg with the evening meal.  Take all the other vitamin D3 cofactors with the evening meal.

When you've been CH pain free for 24 hours, drop back to a maintenance dose of 10,000 IU/day if taking the liquid softgel form of vitamin D3.  If you're taking the Bio-Tech D3-50, drop back to a maintenance dose of one (1) D3-50 capsule a week.  It's a good idea to see your PCP/GP for lab tests of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH 30 days after you've stopped loading vitamin D3.  As long as your serum calcium remains within itss normal reference range, there's no hypercalcemia, a.k.a., vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity.

All the supplements in this treatment protocol should be taken within 10 minutes of finishing the largest meal of the day. The reason for doing this is simple.  Stomach acid content is highest at this point and that helps break down the food you've eaten as well as the supplements for better absorption. 

Depending on the meal size and fat content, the pancreas starts squirting pancreatic juices into the duodenum in as little as 30 to 40 minutes after eating.  These juices are high in bicarbonate (like Arm & Hammer Baking Soda) and this neutralizes the hydrochloric acid so it can pass into the small intestine.  Accordingly taking these supplements more than 30 minutes after eating may cause them to pass into the small and large intestines undissolved so will do little good.  The following X-Ray illustrates three days worth of two calcium tablets/day taken on an empty stomach.  As you can see all six tablets are still undissolved in the large intestine.

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Diet is also an important thing to change at this point as the allergen(s) causing your problems may be dietary.  Accordingly, it's best to cut out all sugars and fruit juices.  Avoiding all wheat products is also essential.  That means no bread, pasta, cookies, crackers or pizza starting now and lasting for at least a month after a 24 hour CH pain free response.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on Dec 6th, 2019 at 12:50am
Hey Batch,

Thanks for the reply and all the great info. I’ve been at a high dose of D3 for several weeks now, up to 90K IU mixture of the D3-50 and soft gels. Should I take to higher to get a more intense loading dose for next few days? What I’m taking is just barely getting me by, headaches been back as of the last week, any time I bring it down even 10K I get hit. I’ll try taking it right after dinner. Haven’t done that yet. Gonna start trying to identify the allergy as well - wash bedding, new pillow, etc.   Let me know if yo have any other thoughts. I really appreciate it.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Dec 6th, 2019 at 10:46am
Hey JT,

Thanks for the update.  I've been in your shoes...  "Do I take more vitamin D3 or what?"  The first thing to remember about vitamin D3 therapy is it is not the dose that counts, but rather the 25(OH)D3 response and of course, a cessation of your CH attacks.

That's a not so subtle hint to see your PCP/GP for lab tests of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH ASAP!  If your serum calcium is still within its normal reference range and even if it's up against the upper limit...  continue loading vitamin D3 at 50,000 IU/day then taper the dose to find how much you need to remain CH pain free then test again. 

Have your PCP/GP order your labs from the nearest Quest Diagnostics collection site.  You may as well have your PCP/GP write two sets of lab orders.  One now and the second 30 days later.  The orders should be written as follows:
  • 25-Hydroxyvitamin D3 [25(OH)D3]. CPT Code 82306. Quest Diagnostics Test Name: 92888-QuestAssureD 25-OH Vitamin D (Total), LC/MS/MS.
  • Parathyroid Hormone (PTH) Intact and Total Calcium. CPT codes 83970, 82310.
You can also pick up some 3 mg boron tabs and take one a day.  Boron down-regulates the expression of Vitamin D3 24-Hydroxylase (CYP24A1).  This is the enzyme that hydroxyates (Adds a hydroxyl [OH] group) to vitamin D3, 25(OH)D3 and 1,25(OH)2D3.  This starts their destruction and eventual elimination down the dumper so they become useless in preventing CH.  The net effect is lower serum and cellular concentrations of vitamin D3 and its metabolites 25(OH)D3 and 1,25(OH)2D3.  Without 1,25(OH)3D3 we have no effective CH prevention regardless of the vitamin D3 dose. 

Accordingly, taking 3 mg/day boron helps preserve oral vitamin D3 and its metabolites resulting in a higher serum vitamin D3 and 25(OH)D3 concentrations. This translates to higher cellular concentrations. The mechanism of action underlying vitamin D3 and its capacity to prevent CH involves vitamin D3 and 25(OH)D3 passing through the blood brain barrier and into neurons within the trigeminal ganglia.  Once there, they are further hydroxylated to 1,25(OH)2D3 the genetically active vitamin D3 metabolite that down-regulates the expression of CGRP, SP, VIP and PACAP preventing our CH.

As far as being in your shoes goes...  I got hit with a major allergic reaction to mold spores in June of 2018.  My 25(OH)D3 serum concentration was upwards of 140 ng/mL at the time to get through the spring pollen season, so was a little surprised, but I continued loading at 50,000 IU/day for over a week along with the Benadryl at 25 mg every four hours during the day until I experienced a CH pain free response.  Here's a chart of my labs for 25(OH)D3, Calcium and PTH over the past three years.

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I keep my PCP in the loop on all this so asked for labs every 90 days.  My PCP understands my need to take higher doses of vitamin D3 and has no problem with my 25(OH)D3 being as high as (188 ng/mL) as long as my serum calcium remains within its normal reference range... and it has.  It's also important to note that my serum PTH trace mirrors serum calcium. 

This is a classic indication of calcium homeostasis in action. As the serum calcium goes up, serum PTH goes down.  This results in less 25(OH)D3 being hydroxylated in the kidneys to 1,25(OH)2D3 and as this genetically active metabolite pulls calcium from the gut and bones, less calcium is pushed into the bloodstream to keep its serum concentration within its normal reference range. I also use MyQuest at the following link to review my lab results.  Open an account...  its free.  START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE

Bottom line... See your PCP/GP for lab tests of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH.  If your serum calcium is still within its normal reference range, load away with 50,000 IU/day vitamin D3 and add 3 mg/day boron.  Test again once you've reached a CH pain free state and have found a lower vitamin D3 dos that keeps you there.

If you haven't eliminated all wheat products and sugars, now would be a good time to do so.

Hope all this makes sense.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by William on Dec 9th, 2019 at 6:58am
Hello Batch,

Once again, and as always, thanks for all of your help here over the years. It is no overstatement to say that the vitamin regimen may have saved my life. I am an episodic sufferer who has benefitted greatly from the D3 regimen. I've 100% noticed the decline in frequency and severity during my episodes. It's been three years since my last episode, but I recently got hit. I immediately started the regimen and have increased to the 50k loading dose last week (I know I should have stayed on a maintenance dose, but three years, you know...) With some tinkering, especially adding 25 -50 mg of Benadryl, my KIP 5/6's have gone down to shadows, with a few exceptions. Here is my regimen:

Fish Oil      2000 iu
Calcium      600 (carbonate, not citrate) mg
Magnesium 800      (split between am and pm) mg
K2              100 iu
A              2400 iu
Zinc       7.5 mg
Boron       1mg
D3.           50,000 iu or more

I went four days headache free after a KIP 7 when I started the loading dose, and everything was going great. Then yesterday, I went on a nice long hike to a waterfall with some friends, got home, and went to lunch at a Mexican restaurant. I had two draft beers with lunch and then BAM--thirty minutes later and I had the worst cluster of my life, by far. A KIP 9 going on a KIP 10 that lasted for over an hour (I do not have oxygen).

I have a few questions: 1) I've recently noticed diet recommendations here on the message board. Was my attack likely triggered by the wheat/sugar in the beer and lunch? This would be a little weird, as similar lunches haven't triggered me since I started the loading dose. 2) Should I be taking more D3 as an abortive during an attack? 3) How essential is calcium citrate v. carbonate?

I am going to start the B50 regimen today and add Vitamin C.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Dec 9th, 2019 at 8:30am
Hey William,

Thanks for the update and kind words.  It's exchanges like this over the last 9 years that have enabled me to compile a working knowledge base of CHers taking the anti-inflammatory regimen including how it works, when it doesn't work, why and what to do when it doesn't work.

You took the words out of my mouth about ECHers staying on this regimen year round so I won't belabor that point.  What I will say is in the absence of vitamin D3 intake and no cutaneous vitamin D3, the average adult burns through 15 ±5 ng/mL of 25(OH)D3 per month. 

That means if your 25(OH)D3 serum concentration was 80 ng/mL while taking this regimen and the average 25(OH)D3 CH threshold is 60 ±10 ng/mL below which you get hammered, 2 months without vitamin D3 lowers your serum 25(OH)D3 to 50 ng/mL.  Accordingly if you're hit with an allergic reaction any time after that... the CH beast is going to jump real ugly in no time at all.

That your most recent CH was most likely due to an allergic reaction is a no-brainer...  What caused the allergic reaction is another story.  It could be your walk to a waterfall.  They have a habit of putting out mist and nano droplets loaded with lots of mold and moss spores from the moss and ferns growing around the falls.  It could be the Mexican food and it could be the two draft cervezas. 

Allergic reactions can be subclinical with no outward or obvious symptoms - unless you're a CHer in which case it's like Kryptonite to Superman triggering the CH beast to jump real ugly.

As this appears to be a one-off occurrence, I wouldn't worry about the cause and focus instead on the treatment.  The tried and true course of action in this case is to start loading vitamin D3 at 50,000 IU/day, double the magnesium to 800 mg/day split AM/PM along with all the cofactos take with meals (10 to 20 minutes after eating) and start a week to 10 day course of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) at 25 mg every 4 hours throughout the day. 

When you've been CH free for at least a week to 10 days, taper the vitamin D3 dose back down to your usual maintenance dose over a two week period.  This much vitamin D3 should elevate your serum 25(OH)D back up well above the 25(OH)D3 CH triggering threshold of 60 ±10 ng/mL.

30 days after you start loading vitamin D3, it's prudent to see your PCP/GP for lab tests of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH.

Regarding the vitamin B complex...  The latest change to the anti-inflammatory regimen will include switching to the Bio-Tech D3-50 50,000 IU water soluble form of vitamin D3.  I and many other CHers have found it to be faster acting with a higher bioequivalence in elevating serum 25(OH)D3 than the same dose of the oil-based liquid softgel vitamin D3 formulations.

I'm also suggesting METHYL FOLATE + by One Elevated as it contains the B complex we need in the most bioactive forms.  30 days should be sufficient.  After that there's ample B Complex in the Kirkland brand Adult 50+ Mature Multi.

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Take care and please keep us posted.  Again it's the feedback that helps make this regimen and treatment protocol better for the next CH.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on Dec 13th, 2019 at 12:39pm
Hey Batch, in desperate need of some guidance here. I got my test results back this morning and was at astronomical levels of D Serum - 311 ng/mL.  My calcium serum is at the very upper end but within normal range.  Reminder, I've been on a very extended loading does of 90K IUs of D3 for over a month now. As soon as I pull back even 10 IUs of the D3, I get hit like clockwork either at 1130am or in the middle of the night, or both. It quickly ruins half my day. Imitrex has been a lifesaver but still not great.

As suspected, my doctor was pretty unsure of me taking these high amounts of D3 and had some pushback. He did recommend to bring the D3 way down immediately and cited possible toxicity.

It's quite a conundrum because as soon as I pull back the D3, I'll be suffering on a daily basis. What else can I do? Go back to the Benadryl for the next few weeks? That helped when I took it for about 8 days at end of November. I've started 3mg of Boron. Been on B50 complex for several weeks now. I've changed the sheets, bedding, removed allergen possibilities, etc.

I usually get hit with headaches for 2-3 months at a time. this is about week 7 since this latest bout came back. Is it unsafe to continue taking such high levels of D3 through the end of the year to see if I can ride it out?

What else is left to try? Thanks as always for your advice.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Dec 15th, 2019 at 7:10am
Hey JT,

Thanks for the update.  Sorry you're still having problems.  My first suggestion is to relax, maintain the vitamin D3 dose that keeps you CH pain free and enjoy the Christmas season.  Although you're now the current record holder for the highest 25(OH)D3 serum concentration at 311 ng/mL on the anti-inflammatory regimen, your serum calcium is still within its normal reference range so there's no vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity.  That said, you should be able to control your CH at a lower vitamin D3 dose so I suspect you've another condition or conditions cooking away.

To put this in perspective, Dr. Coimbra's MS patients on his protocol (very similar to mine except they take 1000 IU vitamin D3 per Kg body weight/day) don't even have labs for their 25(OH)D3 as they're off the scale, too high to measure), but they do measure serum calcium and PTH.

What is your current weight and BMI? Are you taking any other Rx or over the counter medications? If so, what are they and why are you taking them?

What you and your doctor do need to monitor is your parathyroid hormone (PTH) serum concentration.  It;s important to keep it low, but not in the single digits without frequent monitoring.  With your 25(OH)D3 at 311 ng/mL, it's obvious your labs are being done at Quest Diagnostics or another lab that uses the same Liquid Chromatography Dual Mass Spectroscopy (LC-MS/MS) assay for 25(OH)D. 

The LC-Ms/MS assay method is capable of a maximum measurment of 512 ng/mL of combined D2 and D3. As your vitamin D2 intake is likely nil, your 25(OH)D3 serum concentration can be measured as high as 512 ng/mL. 

If your labs are being done at Quest, then you need to create an account on "MyQuest" at the following link.  START PRINTPAGEMultimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or RegisterEND PRINTPAGE. It's free.  When you've registered, check for any indications of a PTH lab test.  If none are listed, call your doctor on Monday and ask for a lab order for PTH.  The labs for this regimen include the following:
  • 25-Hydroxyvitamin D3 [25(OH)D3]. CPT Code 82306. Quest Diagnostics Test Name: 92888-QuestAssureD 25-OH Vitamin D (Total), LC/MS/MS
  • Parathyroid Hormone (PTH) Intact and Total Calcium. CPT codes 83970, 82310
This will allow you and your doctor to monitor your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH over time as illustrated in my labs over the last three years.
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This 3-year log clearly illustrates my 25(OH)D3 has been elevated well above its normal reference range shown in greed to as high as 188 ng/mL. It's been averaging 150 ±5 ng/mL since I switched to the Bio-Tech D3-50 taking one capsule a week in January of this year.  You'll also note that my serum calcium remained within its normal reference range the entire time indicating no hypercalcemia, a.k.a., vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity.

The interesting thing to note is my PTH trace. As you can see it mirrors the calcium serum concentration.  When serum calcium concentration goes up, the serum PTH concentration goes down.  This is a classic indication of normal calcium homeostasis.

In this case, less PTH means less 25(OH)D3 is hydroxylated in the kidneys to 1,25(OH)2D3, the hormonal form of vitamin D3 thatpulls calcium from the gut and/or bones to maintain serum calcium in its normal reference range.  As less 1,25(OH)2D3 is produced, less calcium is being pulled from the gut/bones.  In short, our parathyroid glands keep us from experiencing hypercalcemia while taking higher doses of vitamin D3.

I'm an old Navy fighter pilot so when things don't look right, I trade airspeed for altitude and climb up to look things over before making any serious decisions.  In your case, the high vitamin D3 intake and resulting high serum 25(OH)D3 concentration tells me your body is fighting inflammation and/or an allergic reaction in what I call a Calcitonin Gene-Related Peptide (CGRP) cascade.  CGRP cascades are usually triggered by histamine from an allergic reaction.  That makes histamine to a CHer like Kryptonite to Superman.

That a first-generation antihistamine like Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) worked to lower the frequency of your CH is a good indication an allergic reaction is part of your problem.

As an allergic reaction is the likely culprit, the histamine released has turbocharged the neurons and glia in your trigeminal ganglia, hypothalamus and likely other parts of your brain to express CGRP, Substance P (SP), Vasoactive Intestinal Peptide (VIP) and likely pituitary adenylate cyclase activating peptide (PACAP). 

This is a cocktail of bad news to CHers as it triggers a circular chain reaction where these neuroactive peptides trigger the release of even more histamine and that histamine triggers the expression of even more of the bad news cocktail.  In the mean time, this cocktail of neuropeptides is causing neurogenic inflammation and uncontrollable CH pain.

There are three ways to stop this circular chain reaction.
  • Reduce exposure to the allergen to the greatest extent possible.  You've taken some steps here but there are others
  • Start a week to 10 day course of a first-generation antihistamine like Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) at 25 mg X4/day.  You've already done that
  • Increase/titrate the vitamin D3 dose until you experience a CH pain free response.  You've done that too
I've gone over your posts so know you've already taken some steps to reduce your exposure to some allergens.  That said, I saw nothing in your last 14 posts about diet.  There's a better than even chance there's something in your diet causing an allergic reaction.  Accordingly, I would start the Atkins - Ketogenic diet asap. 

This combo diet is not as spartan as one might think.  For starters, no sugars of any kind and that includes fruit juices.  They're high in fructose and we don't need fructose.  No wheat products, bread, pasta, crackers, cookies, cakes or pizza.  Avoid grain oils like Mazola and Canola.  Not only are these the wrong kind of fats, they're also likely contaminated with glyphosate, a.k.a., the herbicide RoundUp.

Good fats include organic butter, lard, extra virgin olive oil, avocado oil and my favorite, extra virgin coconut oil.  You can eat all the organic meats, poultry and eggs you want.  A couple of servings of wild caught salmon, halibut and Ahi tuna is great.  You can also eat all the green and colored organic Non GMO veggies you want.  Limit fruits to a couple handfuls a day of dark berries like blueberries, blackberries, raspberries or grapes.

It's best to start this diet with a two day fast drinking only water and taking your supplements.  Doing this will burn through the glycogen (blood starch) stored in your liver.  Once it's gone you'll start metabolizing fat and when that happens, hunger pangs go away.

Some things you should do at this point to reduce the calcium load on your system include:
  • Avoid all calcium supplements. (the 200 mg in the Kirkland Adult 50+ is OK)
  • Avoid all calcium rich foods, i.e., all dairy products and most nuts
  • Drink at least 2.5 liters of water a day. This helps flush any excess calcium down the dumper.
I would also start taking Resveratrol and Quercetin as illustrated below.  Take as directed on the label.
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These two supplements increase the expression of the vitamin D3 receptors that attach to DNA strands to enable the genetic expression controlled by vitamin D3 that down-regulates the expression of CGRP, SP, VIP and PACAP, the neuroactive peptides responsible for the neurogenic inflammation and pain we know as cluster and migraine headache.

I would also add CoQ10, Turmeric (Curcumin) and Liposomal (fat wrapped) Vitamin C that stays in your system longer.
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These three supplements all act as anti-inflammatory agents.  Coenzyme Q10 revs up mitochondria and is good for the old ticker. The liposomal vitamin C acts as a potent antioxidant and a natural antiviral, antibacterial and antifungal agent.   Accordingly, I would mosey over to Costco today and pick up the additional supplements and keep your headache diary up to date so you can track any trends.  You can also order them from amazon.com.

The goal of all this is to remain CH pain free, but at a lower vitamin D3 dose.  It will take time for your 25(OH)D3 serum concentration to fall.  Data I've collected so far indicates our 25(OH)D3 burn rate under normal conditions, without any vitamin D3 supplements or cutaneous vitamin D3 from sunlight, drops at a rate of 15 ±5 ng/mL/month. 

If you're unable to remain CH pain free at a lower dose, see your doctor for a set of labs including the following and any other labs he thinks you need as there may be another condition cooking away:
BASIC METABOLIC PANEL
CBC (INCLUDES DIFF/PLT)
URINALYSIS, COMPLETE W/REFLEX TO CULTURE

A consult with an immunologist for allergy skin tests is another step in finding out what's cooking.  Finally, there are several physicians trained in the Coimbra Protocol here in the US.  The following link provides a map with contact data.  There may be one near you. 
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MS patients on the Coimbra Protocol take as much vitamin D3 as you're taking and many take even more.  It's a way of life for them

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by JT08 on Dec 16th, 2019 at 7:56pm
Thank you, Batch. You're a life saver. Copy that regarding continuing the D3 at needed dose. All of this explanation and context is very comforting and interesting learning experience.

Current weight is 175, and I'm 5 ft. 11 inch. BMI is 24.5 according to an online calculator I just used.

I've signed up at MyQuest and requested my results to be uploaded there. Seems like the doctor needs to approve first.

I've made another appointment with an allergist. Few months ago I did food allergy test and everything came back pretty negative. No real allergies. I'll go back for environmental stuff in a few weeks, as I suspect that's what could be bothering me.

Only prescription medication I'm on now is Finasteride to prevent hair loss. Take .25 mg once a day. Everything else I take is D3 regimen related.

I've actually eaten pretty close to a Keto diet for several years now. So I'll tighten up the restrictions on that.

And lastly I just received all the additional supplements you recommended. Starting those today. What's the mgs/per day on the Resveratrol you recommended? Inflammation is exactly what it feels like.. I'm not sure if that's the right way to describe it, but I frequently feel pressure in my head near my temples, eye, and back of skull when I'm in a cycle. It's almost like my head/brain are inflamed which has me feeling like I'm often right on the verge of another headache. Those feelings have been extra pronounced the past several weeks. And when I'm not in a cycle, they go away completely.

Is there any harm in doing another 10 days of Benadryl? I'll be traveling for Christmas and will be in a house with several pets and potentially new allergens. No idea how that will affect me, for better or worse, but perhaps the Benadryl helps as a preventative of things getting worse?

Thank you!

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by William on Dec 17th, 2019 at 6:42am
Update

As of this writing, I am in my 14th day of the loading dose regimen (50k iu/day of D3), seven days of which I’ve been using the recommended soluble D3 and methyl folate, and I have been pain free now for four days straight. In the 14 days after starting the regimen, I had 3 real bangers. Two of them were 4-hour “Why me? Woe is me!” KIP 9/10s that also included residual headaches the entire following day. (I must have been in “peak cycle”.) Needless to say, this was when I wished for oxygen. (Those two were also triggered or exacerbated by alcohol, which I have now completely cut out.)

The way I describe it is: I know I’m still in cycle, as I can still feel the beast occasionally “knocking,” but the vitamin regimen has reduced this knocking to a faint, polite, gloved, old lady’s knock rather than the Viking battering ram it would otherwise be.

My one question is this: I don’t have a PCP or GP doctor because I am an otherwise healthy 36 year-old and just have never (fortunately) needed a doc. Would a PCP or GP be able to order the lab tests AND prescribe the oxygen? And would one of those urgent care, doc in a box places work? Or how should I go about finding the right doctor?

Thanks again! So much, so much.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Dec 18th, 2019 at 9:24am
Hey JT,

Thanks for the reply to my questions.  Your weight, height and BMI are spot on and exactly the same as mine were prior to Thanksgiving...   Now I need to follow my own advice on diet. . . well, after Christmas.  I know how well it works. 

Another 10 days of Benadryl (Diphenhydramine HCL) is OK.  That said, William brought up a good point and another option in lieu of the Benadryl, the three month course of Vitamin B Complex.  The updated version of this treatment protocol (I hope to have it up on vitamindwiki.com for download before the end of the year), now suggests Methyl Folate plus in place of the vitamin B 50/100 complex.  It's a formulation of Methyl Folate, Methylcobalamin (B12), Niacin, B1, B2 & B6.

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These are the same B vitamins suggested by Dr. Stasha Gominak, MD in her headache and sleep regimen and Dr. Cicero Coimbra, MD, PhD, in his vitamin D3 treatment protocol for MS.  After the 3-month course of these B vitamins, there are sufficient amounts of the same vitamins in the Kirkland Adult 50+ Mature Multi to prevent any deficiencies.  There's no problem taking the Kirkland Mature Multi with the Methyl Folate plus.  It will just replete any deficiencies a little faster.

Regarding the Finasteride.  It could be part of your problem.  It's a 5α-reductase enzyme inhibitor that reduces the formation of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and the molecule is small enough to cross the blood brain barrier.  This could have a downstream effect on vitamin D3 pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics.  Finasteride has a relatively short half-life of 6 to 8 hours so stopping it for 3 to 4 days should give you time to see if it's been reducing the effectiveness of vitamin D3 in preventing your CH.

Here's another thing to try, a sodium bicarbonate tonic.  This was one of the country doc's go to remedies for a wide number of ailments.  Sodium bicarbonate (Arm & Hammer baking soda) is a natural alkaline agent that elevates systemic pH to the alkaline side of neutral. 

As CHers and Migraineurs tend to have a low systemic pH, too much acid during their in-cycle periods, a sodium bicarbonate tonic made with a half teaspoon of Arm & Hammer baking soda in 4 oz of water taken every 2 to 3 hours might make a difference in getting your CH back under control.

Take care and please keep us posted

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Dec 18th, 2019 at 4:02pm
Hey William,

Thank you for the update on the efficacy of the vitamin D3 loading schedule.  It's music to my ears and better yet, a testimony that will encourage other CHers to give this very safe and effective method of stopping the CH beast from jumping ugly a try.  Thank you also for reminding me about the Methyl Folate Plus.

Regarding finding a PCP/GP, great question.  My suggestion is to find a Naturopathic Physician near you by filling in the required information in the following link.

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Why a naturopath?  Simple.  They're doctors (ND not MD) who have graduated from one of the 7 accredited Naturopathic medical schools in North America. The curricula at an ND med school is roughly the same as the MD med schools with one major exception, NDs are taught a minimum of 150 hours of nutritional medicine, then there there's another class in nutritional science.  All that is followed by direct hands on work with patients. 

The MD will get at most, an hour of nutritional medicine and that is to tell patients to follow the very sad Standard American Diet (SAD).  The following two links will explain why the SAD diet is so dangerous.

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As MD med schools are heavily financed with large grants from Big Pharma, their curricula are biased to treatment of patients with a pharmaceutical solution and the majority of these pharmaceuticals treat only the symptoms, not the cause.

Accordingly, where the MD will turn to the school book solution taught in med school, to a man made pharmaceutical to treat what ails you, the naturopath will take a holistic approach to look for the cause of that ailment with a complete exam, lab tests, and a lot of questions to get a total picture of your overall health. 

With that information in hand, the ND will likely suggest a lifestyle change complete with diet, sleep and exercise.  The ND will also suggest or prescribe vitamin and mineral USP supplements to augment the diet.  The naturopath will only turn to a pharmaceutical as a last resort.

If push comes to shove - depending on your state's laws, you may be able to go to a medical diagnostic lab to request these three serum assays without a physicians lab order.  Some of these diagnostic labs have a resident physician who will write the lab orders. 

Accordingly, I would do an Internet search using the search terms "medical diagnostic lab" plus your zip code.  In some cases, the cash price for these labs is less than what they charge the medical insurance companies. Accordingly, when you do find a lab to do these three lab tests, it doesn't hurt to ask about their cost.

Hope this helps.  Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Ivana on Jun 29th, 2021 at 4:33am
Good morning,

regards to all of you :)
This is my firs post but I'm reading you carefully for the last three years when I self diagnosed CH later confirmed by neurologist (for more than 10 years doctors treated sinus infection).

To make long story short, I've been on D3 regimen for almost a year now (started last summer when the beast hit hard on me), and I've been 9 months PF. Nice period of my life..

Now, started again.. no matter on regimen, I even tried Benadryl last 10 days + 50000 iu D3.. still hurts.

Is it possible that extreme summer temperatures wake up the beast?? Guess Benadryl will not help (we have around 36 - 38° C last two weeks in Croatia)

I'm desparate, don't know what to do anymore (we cannot get oxygen here, neurologist only prescribed some kind of corticosteroids but I really don't want to use these)

In April I tested 25(oh), was 247 nmol/L

Should I higher the doses of vitamins? Or?? Please help..  :'(

Many thanks,
Ivana

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by AussieBrian on Jun 29th, 2021 at 6:31am
G'day, Ivana.  Welcome,  and it's so terribly sad the beast is treating you badly.

Have you noticed previous comments about using Red Bull as a possible abortive?  Tastes awful,  I know,  but chug-a-lugged down at the first hint of a hit it has been known to give many CHeads a bit of a break.  Something to do with the caffeine/taurine mix and many people swear by it.

Hanging your head under a seriously cold shower also helps many,  though others swear by using a boiling hot shower instead.  Some of us switch between hot and cold which seems to confuse the monster completely so it goes away.

Sudden and strenuous exercise is known to be a help,  though others find it to be a trigger so everything depends on what works best for you.

Please let us know how you're getting on with things because we care,

Brian down under.





Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by MDR on Jun 30th, 2021 at 9:48am
hot cup of coffee first sign of pain a/c in your car breathing that in always helped me.

Mark.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Ivana on Jul 1st, 2021 at 7:49am
Thanks Brian & MDR,
Will try with Red Bull & coffee, a/c definitely makes it easier.
Melatonin helped two cycles before, attacks stopped completely in a few days, but don't work anymore. >:(
I'll keep with D3 & will add Benadryl for few days again.



Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Jul 2nd, 2021 at 3:21pm
Hey Ivana,

What you're experiencing where the vitamin D3 anti-inflammatory regimen is not working to prevent your CH like it did earlier is actually quite common.  For some reason, usually an immune system reaction to allergens, neurons and glia in the trigeminal ganglia go into what I call a Calcitonin Gene-Related Peptide (CGRP) cascade, producing more CGRP than the present 25(OH)D3 serum concentration and maintenance dose of vitamin D3 can handle.

I've worked this problem with several CHers, myself included and the solution is simple.  You need to elevate your 25(OH)D3 serum concentration higher by starting an accelerated vitamin D3 loading schedule with higher doses of vitamin D3.

For starters, you need to have the Bio-Tech D3-50 50,000 IU water soluble vitamin D3 as shown in the following photo if you don't already have it.

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You'll also need a bottle of Micro D3 drops shown below. I order it from amazon.com

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The loading dose I now suggest is two (2) of the Bio-Tech D3-50 capsules/day (100,000 IU/day) and 0.5 cc (40,000 IU) of the Micro D3.  The micro D3 has an even higher bioequivalence than the Bio-Tech D3-50 so this elevates your 25(OH)D3 rapidly.

Stay at this loading dose until you've been CH pain free for at least two (2) days then taper the loading dose by droping the 0.5 cc of Micro D3, but keep taking the two (2) Bio-Tech D3-50/day for another 3 to 4 days.  If your CH stay away, you can drop back to one (1) D3-50 a day for another week then drop back to one (1) D3-50/week as a maintenance dose.  Be sure to take all the supplements shown in the first photo.  If your CH return during this taper, return to the previous loading dose for another 3 to 4 days then restart the taper.

It's also best to double the magnesium dose while loading by taking 400 mg with breakfast and 400 mg with the evening meal.  This provides 12 hours and 12 feet of GI tract separation between magnesium doses to help prevent osmotic diarrhea.

It's important to see your PCP for lab tests of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH when you're done loading and CH pain free.  Don't be surprised at the new 25(OH)D3 serum concentration as it will be much higher than usual.  Your PCP will likely have his or her knickers in a wad if your 25(OH)D3 comes back over 150 ng/mL.  Not to worry. As long as your serum calcium remains within its normal reference range there's no hypercalcemia, a.k.a., vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity and your PTH (Parathyroid Hormone) is between 15 and 10 pg/mL, your good to go and the actual 25(OH)D3 doesn't really matter except as a reference point the next time you experience a CGRP cascade.

I experienced the same CGRP cascade problem in April and May due to a high pollen count so kept titrating my loading dose up to 100,000 IU/day of the Bio-Tech D3-50 and 0.5 cc/day (40,000 IU/day) of the Micro D3 for nearly two weeks in mid-May to remain CH pain free.  The following 4-year chart of my labs for 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH tells the story.

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The inverse relationship between serum calcium and PTH is interesting.  This is a classic example of calcium homeostasis in action preventing too much serum calcium - hypercalcemia.  This also indicates I'm getting the maximum therapeutic effect from the vitamin D3.

When my PCP received my lab results, he commented that my 25(OH)D3 was higher than usual, but as my serum calcium was within its normal reference range, my PTH not too low, and the rest of my annual physical labs were in the green, he had do problem with my 25(OH)D3 up at 277 ng/mL.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Traveller on Jul 3rd, 2021 at 4:59pm
Wise to consult your doctor before taking this huge, and potentially dangerous dose of D3.   Below are some genuine medical reports from real scientists and doctors who have studied Vitamin D3 toxicity. Well worth reading and discussing with a medical professional in advance.

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Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Stefan on Aug 2nd, 2021 at 4:52pm
Hello Batch,
I am fairly new to this regimen and I am little bit confused.
You mentioned above that one should usually avoid calcium supplements, since D3 dosage increases calcium blood content, but in the list of supplements, listed at the first post of the "D3 regimen thread", there is calcium (220 to 500mg/day). Perhaps I am looking at an older version of it.
Also does vitamin K2 act as a calcium blood level regulator, i.e. it prevents hypercalcemia.
I took high vitamin D3 doses a few years back, without any other supplements, and started having severe mental health problems, consistent with hypercalcemia, which stopped after discontinuing the high D3 dosage. I would very much wish to avoid that.
Thank you very much in advance.

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Aug 17th, 2021 at 5:36pm
Hey Stefan,

There's no need to avoid calcium rich foods or calcium supplements at the maintenance doses called for in this treatment protocol.  It's when you start going over a vitamin D3 maintenance dose of 500 IU/Kg ~ 40,000 IU/day that reducing the calcium load becomes prudent.

Regarding hypercalcemia, in the 10 years I've been providing information outreach to thousands of CHers and their doctors on this vitamin D3 treatment protocol, I have yet to see a report of hypercalcemia.  The 25(OH)D3 serum concentration is a very poor indication of hypercalcemia, a.k.a., vitamin D3 intoxication/toxicity.  The only commonly used laboratory assay used to determine hypercalcemia is a serum calcium concentration greater than the normal reference range.  A 24 Hr urine collection can also be used as a secondary measure.

I've routinely kept my 25(OH)D3 around 150 ng/mL and recently as high as 277 ng/mL, yet my serum calcium concentration has always remained within its normal reference range as illustrated in the 4-Year chart of my labs for 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH (Parathyroid Hormone).

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My PCP has no problem with my 25(OH)D3 serum concentration even at 277 ng/mL as my serum calcium has always remained within its normal reference range.  A 24 Hr Urine collection found my urine calcium well within its normal reference range so I wasn't dumping calcium in urine.

I try to maintain my PTH serum concentration between 10 and 15 pg/mL as this indicates I'm getting the maximum therapeutic effect from vitamin D3.

It's strongly advised to take all the vitamin D3 cofactors illustrated by brand and dose in the following photo of supplements I take and suggest to other CHers.

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One of the more important vitamin D3 cofactors is magnesium.  We need at least 400 mg/day while taking vitamin D3 as the enzymatic processes that hydroxylate vitamin D3 to 25-Hydroxy vitamin D3 consume magnesium rapidly.  Without magnesium supplements, vitamin D3 will decrease serum magnesium concentrations rapidly leading to a poor calcium-magnesium ratio resulting in muscle cramps.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by TheAndyT on Aug 9th, 2022 at 4:12pm
Hello Everyone, Batch!!

Been a while since I have been on here but like a lot of us....the beast brings us back to the comfort zone. I have not stoped the regimen at all since I started it years ago and I have sailed through years of being pain-free; 8 years to be exact!! For reasons unknown, the beast hit me a week ago and it hit me hard. Never in my life have I had more than one hit a day but now I am getting hit 3-4 times a day and at high KIP.  I have raised my doses to the loading numbers for the past 7 days and no improvement. After reading a little, I will also order some Benadryl for
now. Dunno what else to do at this point. Pain-free wishes to all!

-Andy

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Aug 14th, 2022 at 4:49pm
Hey Andy,

Sorry to hear the CH beast is jumping ugly and knocked you out of CH pain free bliss.  This happens and it has happened to me with my 25(OH)D3 serum concentration at 150 ng/mL.  The likely reason is an immune system response to allergens.

The first step is to see your PCP and ask for labs of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH.  I would also ask for the hs CRP (High-sensitivity C Reactive Protein) assay.

it's a safe bet you're battling an immune system response to allergens.  When insulted by allergens, the immune system's Mast Cells degranulate (spit open and dump their contents) releasing large quantities of inflammatory mediators as illustrated in the following graphic.

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Leading this pack of inflammatory mediators is Histamine.  Histamine to a CHer is like Kryptonite to Superman - Bad News as none of the standards of care preventatives like verapamil, MM or vitamin D3 will work when we're insulted by histamine.  That means you need to treat the immune system response to allergens.  This is where the Antihistamine Full Monty comes into play.

The Antihistamine Full Monty is a collection of supplements with antihistamine properties that include 3 grams/day each as a loading dose of Turmeric (Curcumin), Resveratrol, Quercetin and Omega-3 fatty acids.  It also includes 200 mcg/day Selenium, 8 grams/day vitamin C and 5 mg/day Melatonin taken at bed time.   If there's no response in a week, I would add 200 mg/day CoQ10 and 5 grams/day D-Ribose.  Both boost mitochondria health. You can mix the D-Ribose with water and drink it.  As a sugar, it will taste slightly sweet.

Take the loading dose for five days or a significant reduction in CH frequency whichever occurs first, then taper to 2 grams/day for another five days then taper to 1 gram/day.  I tapered to 1 gram/day of the first four supplements in March and I'm still taking them.  Dealers choice on the Selenium, but I still take the Melatonin occasionally at bedtime and 8 mg/day vitamin C daily.  If you're wondering about vitamin C, watch the video of Linus Pauling titled Preventing Illnesses and Diseases with Vitamin C at the following link.

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I buy the bulk powdered vitamin C in 1 Kg bags and stir 2 level teaspoon measures in 8 ounces of water and take sips all day until it's gone by bedtime.  This is the least expensive form of vitamin C and dosing throughout the day is best as our kidneys filter vitamin C rapidly.

I realize this is a boatload of pills to take, but the Full Monty is proving to be very effective in achieving a CH pain free response during allergic reactions as an alternative to Benadryl.  Most CHers respond to the Antihistamine Full Monty during the first week.   You can discontinue the Antihistamine Full Monty following at least two weeks CH pain free, but keep these supplements handy.  You never know when the next allergic reaction will happen.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by TheAndyT on Aug 21st, 2022 at 3:53pm
Batch,

Thanks for the reply. Im not sure I understand the dosage correctly when you put it in grams so I will describe what I am doing in different measurements.

First off, I will be ordering the 4 blood tests today to hopefully get them done by the end of this week. Secondly, yesterday was my 10th day on the Benadryl, I have no changes to the CH yet. I have two days since I tapered my D3 intake from the loading dose down to 20,000IU daily. I must add that I have several years taking additional supplements to the regimen. These are daily: 500mg Bromelain, 1000mg Turmeric Curcumin, 2000mg Quercetin and 3000mg Kudzu Root. I beleive that I should raise these doses temporarily?

I also beleive that this is very important to point out............. I am fully vaccinated against covid-19 (two shots, plus a booster shot). Even being fully vaxxed, I contracted Covid on July 9th. I tested clean from Covid on July 20th. The Beast came back on July 28th. Coincidental? maybe. But I feel a little suspect on it all. Today will be my 25th day straight with the beast visiting me. Yesterday was hell  [smiley=hammer.gif].

I will share the results of the blood work as soon as I have them available. Again, thank you for your time and guidance!

Pain-free wishes to all!  [smiley=heart.gif]

-Andy

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 4:25am
Andy,

You're fighting two devils.  The cluster beast is bad enough, but manageable for most Chers following the anti-inflammatory regimen treatment protocol.  Three jabs of the COVID-19 mRNA biologic coupled with an infection likely by the omicron mutant variant, doubles the degree of difficulty in controlling and preventing CH with this treatment protocol. 

The COVID-19 mRNA jab and an omicron infection both cause inflammation and on top of that, they weakening your innate and adaptive immune systems.  Accordingly, you're going to need larger loading doses and maintenance doses of vitamin D3. You'll also need the Full Monty supplements.  Adding at least 200 mg/day CoQ10 and 1000/day mg NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) will also help.

You've already see your PCP to obtain assays of your serum 25(OH)D3, calcium and PTH.  That's great! You'll also need the hs-CRP (High-sensitivity C-Reactive Protein) assay the next time you see your PCP.  It's a safe bet your CRP will be elevated.  Once we have the results of your assays, we can compute a new total loading dose and schedule.  You'll need the Bio-Tech D3-50 and also the Micro D vitamin D3 nano emulsion.

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In the mean time I would up the vitamin D3 maintenance dose to 50,000 IU/day with the Bio-Tech D3-50 along with all the cofactors and continue the Full Monty supplements plus the CoQ10 and NAC.

Take care and please keep up posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by TheAndyT on Aug 29th, 2022 at 6:09pm
Good day, Everyone! 

Batch...

So I got my blood results in this morning. This is what it all looks like:

HS-CRP  0.6 mg/L
Calcium Serum  10.3 mg/dL
PTH Intact  30 pg/mL
D, 25-OH   >150 ng/mL

I am currently still on the loading doses of the regimen (been loading for 3 weeks) plus the full monty and added the Methyl Folate+ in lieu of the benadryl.
I am still getting hit, but I feel like the intensity of the pain might be going down. They are around kip 5 to 6 on average. Your guidance is greatly appreciated.

pain-free wishes to all.
-Andy

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Oct 9th, 2022 at 10:02pm
Hey Andy,

Sorry for the delay in responding.  I've been on travel all of September.

Your labs look fine.  Howz the head?

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by TheAndyT on Oct 13th, 2022 at 11:51pm
Batch,

I hope your travels were for pleasure rather than business as you well deserve!

As far as the noggin; the last day I got hit was Sep 6. Nothing since.

I am curious and wondering why I was still getting hit even though my labs are where they should be.

I have now finally weaned back to the 10k IU maintenance dose of D3 and am doing well.

Anyways; I suppose a new schedule is not needed as it seems that im keeping good track on my levels.

Thanks again for the help and any advice is always welcome!

-Andy

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Dec 5th, 2022 at 10:08am
Hey Andy,

Howz the head now?  Hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving.  We sure did. 

The reason you were still getting hit with a 25(OH)D3 >150 ng/mL was the elevated hs-CRP.  As suspected, the hs-CRP indicated you were battling inflammation.  We're not sure of the actual mechanism of action associated with inflammation triggering CH and making CH more difficult to control. 

I'll make a SWAG it's an immune system response where the immune system's white blood cells consume available vitamin D3 and its first metabolite 25(OH)D3 more rapidly leaving too little to control CH.  We've seen this happen many times.  When it does happen, the best course of action is to increase the 25(OH)D3 serum concentration with loading doses and a higher maintenance dose.  SWAG = Sophisticated Wild-Ass Guess.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by TheAndyT on Dec 10th, 2022 at 11:35pm
Batch,

Your SWAG is unmatched by any theory. The head is fine now and I had a great Thanksgiving and I'm hoping for a great Xmas and new year.  I suspect that the Covid shots plus boosters may have brought back the beast for me. Although I don't advocate against the vaccines for every one reading this.

So now I chose to stay away from the vaccines and continue the daily regimen....personally.  every one is different and we should all adjust as such. That is my version of the SWAG.

Anyways, thanks again, Batch and may the force be with you always.

My best regards,
Andy

Title: Re: Batch regimen recently stopped working - help
Post by Batch on Dec 11th, 2022 at 3:51pm
Andy,

You've made a sound choice based on the available credible information.  Have a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Healthy New Year.

V/R, Batch

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