Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Clusterheadaches.com
 
Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterEvent CalendarBirthday List  
 





Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Suboccipital injection (Read 8347 times)
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Suboccipital injection
Jun 1st, 2008 at 2:37am
 
This post is continuation to the thread on the Old board
to be found under:

Cluster Headache Help and support
Medications, Treatments, Therapies
Name: Suboccipital injection.



(Link to old Message Board)

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

I am now 16 days past the last „Injection“ and so far so good,
the current combination of meds. is giving me a relatively
peaceful time (1 attack every 1.5 days), this fact is in no way
a success, it is a mile stone on a long road, in the search for a
comprehensive treatment, it is only a little chunk in the fundaments,
but its a start, (one more) in the effort to give us (some of us) a good
way in battling our common malady.

What will be new, if the blood pic. and the endocrinologists
recommendation to reduce the frequency of the Injection, we will try
and use again the “GLOA” - using Bupivacain or Buprenorphin
as a block, and alternate once “Injection” and once “GLOA”

As an anecdote, some of the adverse effects of the lithium are
now reduced to the level of “tolerable”, or "void", namely
the O2 abortive effect is back to its normal effectiveness, and that
makes me happy! I “love” my O2.

Michael

010608_2235
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 5th, 2008 at 1:30pm by wildhaus »  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Batch
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must


Posts: 3706
Bremerton, WA
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #1 - Jun 1st, 2008 at 8:55am
 
Michael,

Thanks for the update.  If cutting the frequency of your attacks to one every 1.5 days isn't a success, it's very close to it.  Great news.

V/R, Batch
Back to top
  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
pete_batcheller  
IP Logged
 
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #2 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 2:24pm
 
It’s been 3 weeks since the last “Injection”
with a  good rate of success, that is
0.85 attacks per day (less than 1 attack a day
as opposed to up to 7 attacks a day)
I went to the pain Clinic yesterday at the
St. Gallen hospital, and had another “Injection”
done, with a high hope that the peaceful time
with my head will hold just another few days,
or even better a few weeks.

The open quotation that we still have is what are
the possible long term adverse effects, risks, as
well as short term risks (immunological, endocrinological
and other) that might exist, in terms of risks
in case of emergency hospitalisation, surgery,
and other medical complications.

All this open questions will be partly answered after my upcoming
visit to the hospital, endocrinological and Immunological
institute as well as the Haematological Institute.

The long term effects, well, I have to be honest, only time,
plenty data collecting, dedication on all ends, will
give answers, and most likely more questions and
speculative / argumentative answers.

Most of all so, I am happy I use only O2, and in 3 weeks
only 2 Zomigs, very little Verapamil (80mg/day) and a low
dosage of Lithium.


Michael
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2008 at 3:42pm by wildhaus »  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #3 - Jul 25th, 2008 at 4:29pm
 
So, the results are in…. (endocrinology tests)
and it’s not what I was hoping to hear…..
I will give the correct and full info as soon
as I have it in English and use the proper terms.

In short, my adrenal gland seems to have stopped
to function the way it should, that is to produce some
essential hormones – namely Corticoid

“Steroid hormone synthesised by the adrenal cortex – Corticosteroids
are a class of steroid hormones that are produced in the adrenal cortex.
Corticosteroids are involved in a wide range of physiologic systems such
as stress response, immune response and regulation of inflammation,
carbohydrate metabolism, protein catabolism, blood electrolyte levels,
and behavior. “
(Wikipedia)

The “bright” end is that it can be compensated by medication…..

There are some technical dawn said…. and some procedural stuff
that come with it…. all of it I will fully describe….

As cynical as I am I find all this tolerable….. and will deal with it
but the people that surround me find it (mildly put) intolerable, namely
“Corticosteroids are involved in a wide range of physiologic systems such
as stress response” and my response is at time way out of the normal……

And then agin one day with out the pain above my right eye is a gift
a week is La dolce vita…..  and I would like to keep this settlement of
La dolce vita….  so I will have to take the good and all that comes with it.


To the GON…. we are using a new method of infiltration..  slightly lower then
where we have started….. and using a Doppler ultra sound…. the system
and the “position” provide a higher efficiency, and there for a higher rate of
successes, I will post photos. in the next few days…..  after my visit to north
Italy – the area of Merano.

Michael
Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #4 - Aug 2nd, 2008 at 1:47am
 
As promised I am adding 3 pic. of the procedure (GON) using the Doppler
ultra sound  at the “lower” location on the skull, about 1.5 inc. lower then
the original spot, I must say it seems to do as good as the old location I hope
for better results….. and there for lower dependency on the Betametazon - GON.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register



Michael


020808_150


Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
sandie99
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline


Wish it, dream it, do
it - inspite the pain!


Posts: 11975
Finland
Gender: female
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #5 - Aug 2nd, 2008 at 3:51am
 
Thanks for the update, Michael! Smiley

Sanna
Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Garys_Girl
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline


Making biscuits


Posts: 821
Planet Cat, NJ
Gender: female
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #6 - Aug 6th, 2008 at 7:26pm
 
Michael,

Thank you so much for continuing to post updates, progress, changes, and results. 

I'm so sorry to hear about the results of the endocrinology tests - but very glad the problem is treatable.

I really hope the new location works to reduce the amounts needed!

(((((hugs)))))

Laurie
Back to top
  

This is enough already
WWW  
IP Logged
 
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #7 - Aug 28th, 2008 at 2:32pm
 
It is, by now some time since I have posted and updated our little
community about my Injections…. that is the GON treatment I am undergoing
in hope that I will get some substantial PF time.

The target of substantial PF time (it is a relative / subjective term, and I am very careful using
this term – “substantial PF time” ) has been achieved, about 1/3 of a year PF, that is 120
days PF and another 50-60 days with only 1-2 attacks a day with a lower “magnitude”
(These are still a prognosticated No’s. based on the accumulated data until now) are for me
as a CCH’er (used to have an average of 5 attacks a day with 7-8K average) a great achievement
and I am grateful for every day I have without fighting the malady we all have been doomed to share.

BUT

With every “up side” there is bound to be a “down side”, and the adverse reactions to the treatment
are significant, and as much as I would like it to be different it is still very significant!
Due to the semi-high quantities of cortisone used with the injection I have developed a ‘secondary adrenal insufficiency’ -------   which is a very “un-happy” situation, though a treatable one and it is a reversible situation; but never the less, an unsettling and worrisome situation, as I have to chemically balance my system with daily intake of hydrocortisone.

I am under constant and close monitoring, to prevent any further deterioration in the situation
and to prevent any further / added complications

I will go on and use this method – The Injection, after long contemplation and weighing all the
known’s and possible “un known’s” I still come to the conclusion that every PF day I get is a
MIRACLE, and I am simply and humbly grateful for this blessing! in other words I am “commited”
to the “Injection” with the adverse effects.

I am very sorry I can not hauler I HAVE THE ANSWER,  I wish I could.
it’s a set back from the “road map” I have “drowned” my self, but with the help of the Dr’s at the
pain clinic and the neuro clinic as well as the Dr’s at the endocrinological institute and some
others

BUT MOST OF ALL THE LOVE AND SUPPORT OF MARTA AND THE BOYS

I will be (I believe, and hope) back on the right track…..  its just patience and faith!

I will ask DJ to help me post the excel sheet again with all the info. and treatments I have
accumulated for all that might be interested…..

Michael

280808242
Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Garys_Girl
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline


Making biscuits


Posts: 821
Planet Cat, NJ
Gender: female
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #8 - Aug 28th, 2008 at 3:46pm
 
Michael,

Thank you again so much for being so thorough in your posts!  I think it's wonderful of you to be so attentive and share all of this.

Again, I'm so sorry about the side-effects - but you've obviously made a very informed decision, and I'm so thankful it's all been worth it!

I'm so glad you have such a supportive family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Laurie
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 28th, 2008 at 3:49pm by Garys_Girl »  

This is enough already
WWW  
IP Logged
 
thebbz
Ex Member



Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #9 - Aug 28th, 2008 at 4:05pm
 
Any pain free time is subtantial Micheal. Glad your getting some relief. You deserve it.
all the best to you. Smiley
thebb
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Agostino Leyre
CH.com Sponsor
***
Offline


"Hit like a phillips head
into my brain."


Posts: 3803
Madison WI USA
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #10 - Aug 28th, 2008 at 4:52pm
 
Sorry to hear about the adverse condition from the treatment.  I am hoping that all goes well for you.
Back to top
  

Triptans cause increased number of hits and increased intensity.  Learn it, believe it, live it.  I use triptans as the absolute LAST RESORT when treating my CH.&&
 
IP Logged
 
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #11 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 3:15pm
 
As promised I am adding a link to the Excel tabel
with all the info. and treatments I have
accumulated for all that might be interested…..

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

do let me know if you have Questions, or the table is not totally
understood, I will try and have answers, If I can or know.......

And just a small ADD to the post..... I did get some lovely pictures, of a lovely boy (toddler) and his parents, which made my day......
It just jumped in my head, the quote from the The Book of Zohar
Prologue – Tue Blossoms / Buds:

“And who sustains the world…..
It is the voices of the children ………..
And the world is saved………….
for the sake of these children……..


Michael

010908290


Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #12 - Sep 8th, 2008 at 2:37pm
 
After a visit today to the hospital, for another injection (GON) and to talk to the neurologist, about the latest
results from the Endocrinology and the (by now limited options) for treatment….

After the meeting with the neurologist, I had to go to the department of Osteologie  ( measuring the bones
denseness) and meet with the specialist…..  well this meeting didn’t go very well….  I was told that the
cortisone treatment effects my bones and with very high likelihood has caused Osteoporosis….  

All that after I have told earlier to a “double attack” from the pain therapist and the Neuro. to start and consider
more pragmatic ways to fight CH and that are less aggressive then the GON, and my answer was why should I
I get ample PF time, and am fighting the adverse effects that come with it.

But after the new addition, Osteoporosis, I have right then and there, after a call to Marta, notified the Neuro / pain
that the alternative they have suggested is more then welcome, and they should do all what is needed and initiate
a meeting with the neuro surgeon, as well as the endocrinologist for a (at the moment) implantation of brain
stimulators, occipital brain stimulators.

I know I have to do something, The GON is a good alternative, just not for me, My reaction to the cortisone is way
too strong, and out of the norm.

I have delayed the Operative (surgical) alternative, but now the options are narrowing rapidly, the alternatives,
which way I look are non apealing, or un acceptable for me….. due to high risk at my job, namely the CB alternative,
which was brought up in the meeting with the neuro, but is due to its legal status is out of reach for me, even tough
it could be and with some likelihood a good alternative.

Now that I have to start and befriend my self with the “un spoken” alternative, and start from square one, I feel
frustrated, disappointed, and in a way foolish, I hang my hopes way to high, even tough I was aware of the possible
adverse reactions, and still went for it, and now I have some additional problems which are not trivial, and it will take
some time (about 1 year) to get it back to normal or at least to tolerable status.

I am not defeated… just a lost fight,  I am still out there to fight, I will win the battle…..  and live my life, as I do now
as in PF times  as in fighting times, happily and fully with my supporters bunch.

Michael

080908320
Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2008 at 2:39pm by wildhaus »  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
MJ
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline




Posts: 1205
x1||USA|usa|299|85|MN
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #13 - Sep 8th, 2008 at 11:25pm
 
wildhaus.

I have followed your journey with this and your devotion with open eyes was admirable.

So many of us have followed varying paths to reach that elusive feeling of being without pain.  You are a pioneer and a teacher to all.

Good luck with however you proceed.

Back to top
  

MJ
 
IP Logged
 
Pixie-elf
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline


I've tried the rest, and
busting is the best!


Posts: 517
Beaumont,Tx
Gender: female
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #14 - Sep 8th, 2008 at 11:35pm
 
Wow, thank you for posting all of this here...

I was keeping this as an option I was willing to consider, but hearing that it caused you osteoporosis has changed my mind, as I'm recovering from osteoporosis. (Had it since I was 9.) I'm sorry that it did this to you. The treatments for osteoporosis have come a long way, hopefully they'll find one that works for you fast.

Good luck, and PFDAN...
Back to top
  

As far as I'm concerned, cluster busting has been the best treatment I've tried. No migraines since I started it, and my hits have gotten so much better. Wanna know more?
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

It's saved my life.
 
IP Logged
 
George
CH.com Moderator
CH.com Alumnus
*****
Offline


Black-Billed Magpie


Posts: 8126
Boise, Idaho USA
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #15 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 1:13am
 
Michael, many thanks for your systematic reports on your experimental treatment with this method.  I've been following it with interest.  It's valuable information, and has been most informative.  I commend you for keeping us so thoroughly informed.

I'm sorry to hear that substantial side-effects have shown up--but I'm hopeful that these effects will be quickly resolved. 

All the best,

George
Back to top
  

"Whoever loveth me, loveth my hound."  (Thomas More, author of "Utopia", and Chancellor of England.  1477-1535)
WWW George jacox6820 7165032563  
IP Logged
 
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #16 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 3:13am
 
It is ME that has a problem with the GON, my cortisone tolerance is equal “0”
and there for all the problems….   the GON is a very good alternative, providing
the cortisone tolerance is good (can be tested), and as soon as one monitors closely the effects
and possible adverse effect, the risks are most likely kept under control.

I will have 2 more GON’s and then the surgery, to become a cyber / electro brain man……

Michael
Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Rolomatic
Ex Member



Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #17 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 4:14am
 
wildhaus wrote on Sep 8th, 2008 at 2:37pm:
After a visit today to the hospital, for another injection (GON) and to talk to the neurologist, about the latest
results from the Endocrinology and the (by now limited options) for treatment….

After the meeting with the neurologist, I had to go to the department of Osteologie  ( measuring the bones
denseness) and meet with the specialist…..  well this meeting didn’t go very well….  I was told that the
cortisone treatment effects my bones and with very high likelihood has caused Osteoporosis….  

All that after I have told earlier to a “double attack” from the pain therapist and the Neuro. to start and consider
more pragmatic ways to fight CH and that are less aggressive then the GON, and my answer was why should I
I get ample PF time, and am fighting the adverse effects that come with it.

But after the new addition, Osteoporosis, I have right then and there, after a call to Marta, notified the Neuro / pain
that the alternative they have suggested is more then welcome, and they should do all what is needed and initiate
a meeting with the neuro surgeon, as well as the endocrinologist for a (at the moment) implantation of brain
stimulators, occipital brain stimulators.

I know I have to do something, The GON is a good alternative, just not for me, My reaction to the cortisone is way
too strong, and out of the norm.

I have delayed the Operative (surgical) alternative, but now the options are narrowing rapidly, the alternatives,
which way I look are non apealing, or un acceptable for me….. due to high risk at my job, namely the CB alternative,
which was brought up in the meeting with the neuro, but is due to its legal status is out of reach for me, even tough
it could be and with some likelihood a good alternative.

Now that I have to start and befriend my self with the “un spoken” alternative, and start from square one, I feel
frustrated, disappointed, and in a way foolish, I hang my hopes way to high, even tough I was aware of the possible
adverse reactions, and still went for it, and now I have some additional problems which are not trivial, and it will take
some time (about 1 year) to get it back to normal or at least to tolerable status.

I am not defeated… just a lost fight,  I am still out there to fight, I will win the battle…..  and live my life, as I do now
as in PF times  as in fighting times, happily and fully with my supporters bunch.

Michael

080908320


I’ll have to tell you that you are braver than I considering that before I went on lithium (and I still get nailed 1-3 a day) I got hit 6-10 a day with K7-9 and an occasional 10 just to let me know that it can get that bad.

I went in for an occipital nerve block one time and I’ll never let them (the nero) jab me in the head with a 3” needle again! Botox X4 was a bust also.

I sincerely hope the best for you on this. I know what it is like to think there is no end in sight, as I am a chronic sufferer 6 yrs running. O2 (especially after I learned the flow & mask requirements) has helped me a lot. Also because its effects are felt in minuets, when I get to it fast it saves me from a lot of superlatives and excited utterances!

I hate to hear that any one of us should feel so bad that we would have to rely on the hospital docs for relief (cause they are usually a joke and the last time I went in to the ER, they thought I was crazy dragging in my own O2 and telling them to get the DHE like I was a doctor or something).

PFW To you! Smiley

Roalnd. Wink
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
wayne mc
CH.com Newbie
*
Offline


Live life in the fast
lane


Posts: 13
Goulburn, NSW Australia.
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #18 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 6:14am
 
Sorry to hear of your ordeal,
During march last year, I had an operation to cut the Greater occipital
nerve. (I have also had these injections that you speak of, man they hurt.) When waking from the operation I was in the middle of a kip 9.
the nurses were very concerned because I was in pain. So they called the surgeon, by the time he arrived the ch had eased of abit. He told me that this attack was a phantom ch attach.
During the next couple of months the attcks continued 1-2 per day and always kip 7-8 or higher contacted the neuro several times about this and his answer was always the same, Phantoms.

This cycle lasted until 23 november 2007 then stopped. (also had botox, another big hurt)

Then PF until 2 weeks ago , Back to the old grind.


Sorry This  is so short, don't  really know doctors mumbo, but do know
that these are NO PHANTOMS.


Went back to neuro, and he spent the entire time showing me
reports to reassure me that he got the right nerve.

Still said they were PHANTOMS

Anyway this is my experience hope it helps.



regards

wayne.
Back to top
  

If I knew I would live this long, I would of looked after myself better!
 
IP Logged
 
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Re: Suboccipital injection
Reply #19 - Sep 9th, 2008 at 7:34am
 
1.)      I must be very lucky, my Dr’s at the Medical centre in St. Gallen are very helpful
     opened to new treatments and are very flexible, and genuinely concerned about my
     well being, and constantly monitor, in coordination with my Fem. Dr. my situation
     be it blood tests or other necessary test.
     And The Neuro surgeon has set the first tests for the up coming surgery for the 26
     of this month and tentatively surgery for October.
2.)      My GON was done with a 26 gauge siring, using Lidocain to numb and very slowly injected the Betametason to avoid any pain and after pain, I have to say the
     Anaesthesiologist had taken a extra effort  to spare me the pain and agony that could
     come with the GON, with utmost success!

I must say the team that helps me is a caring and genuinely concerned team, I trust them
and in return they get all the help, info. and data I collect,  an honest, precise and emotionless (as much as possible) assessment of every stage of the way, I try to keep my info to the tangible info. and less to the speculative and subjective, something that helps in choosing the right alternatives, or the most likely tests to avoid lasting and short term adverse effects.

As you can see I keep an Excel Table with all the info related and a CH dairy (electronically)
which is a very helpful and handy information data base, something I recommend to every one,
it dose need some discipline in doing on a daily base, but after a short time it becomes a habit
and there for a very good way to judge in retrospective the situation, and a very helpful tool
for the treating Dr’s.

I will still try to inform you all, about the developments and the treatments to correct the
existing situation.

Michael
Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print

DISCLAIMER: All information contained on this web site is for informational purposes only.  It is in no way intended to be used as a replacement for professional medical treatment.   clusterheadaches.com makes no claims as to the scientific/clinical validity of the information on this site OR to that of the information linked to from this site.  All information taken from the internet should be discussed with a medical professional!