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This is what the democrats...... (Read 17609 times)
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #75 - Aug 11th, 2008 at 2:05pm
 
Oh Damn!! Now where the hell did I store those robes, beads, flowers and sandals????

Let's MAKE PEACE NOT WAR..... Kiss Kiss Kiss

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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #76 - Aug 11th, 2008 at 5:54pm
 
I don't know what I'd do without you people. I had to cut my cable down to basic local channels...real cheap though....so for now, I don't see CNN, MSNBC or Fixed News. I'm in a drought here and with dialup, it's not practical to view this stuff on line.

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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #77 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 11:19am
 
I support the Publicans.
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My name is Brian. I'm a ClusterHead and I'm here to help. Email me anytime at briandinkum@yahoo.com
 
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Brew
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #78 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 11:22am
 
AussieBrian wrote on Aug 12th, 2008 at 11:19am:
I support the Publicans.

I support the Pelicans.
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DonnaH_again
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #79 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 11:42am
 
I see the scarey word "communism" tossed around a bit, but do we all know the true definition of communism? 

I'd really like to hear Charlies view because Charlie thinks before answering.
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Paul98
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #80 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 12:51pm
 
Quote:
I see the scarey word "communism" tossed around a bit, but do we all know the true definition of communism?  

I'd really like to hear Charlies view because Charlie thinks before answering.


There has never been a larg human society that was truely Lennistic Communism.  Unless mankind can find a way to hardwire the human brain to that of an Ant or Bee, there will never be one.  Humans have been hardwired for survival over millions of years.  Early survival was based upon taking what you could get/find.  That doesn't fit well with true Communism.  Even Ants and Bees don't have a true communistic structure because you have heirachy within the colony.

I think everyone knows what is meant when using the term Communism and it is the accepted working definition as used today.  A one party system of government.

-P.

edit to add:  Think of China, Cuba, N. Korea, pre Soviet collapse Russia......Living as a common person within those frame works....Yes, that IS scarey!
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DonnaH_again
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #81 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 2:09pm
 
Quote:
I think everyone knows what is meant when using the term Communism and it is the accepted working definition as used today.  A one party system of government.


A one party system is a Totalitarianism.  The two are often confused.

Quote:
Humans have been hardwired for survival over millions of years.  Early survival was based upon taking what you could get/find.  That doesn't fit well with true Communism.  Even Ants and Bees don't have a true communistic structure because you have heirachy within the colony.


Human beings are social.  We've been hardwired to work together.  Alone, we are too weak and slow to exist in the wild without technology or cooperation.  Taking what you can get/find doesn't work. You'd be kicked right out of our group. Our emotional make-up and group dynamic tend to support older group members or weaker group members regardless of their ablilties to contribute.  Sound like anything familiar?  

I'm not saying that Communism is the best economic system.  I don't know what the best ecomonic system is.

What I AM saying is that when people react with fear to the word communism, they're really afraid of Totalitarianism.

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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #82 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 2:26pm
 
I'm skeert of ism's. Any of em. They all have one thing in common. They're own interests. At the cost of the people. All people everywhere. The few the rich and the powerful.
The big red machine is rollin now.
Pray for the people of Georgia.
thebb
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #83 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 2:54pm
 
Great post Pete.
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #84 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 3:00pm
 
Quote:
Quote:
I think everyone knows what is meant when using the term Communism and it is the accepted working definition as used today.  A one party system of government


A one party system is a Totalitarianism.  The two are often confused.

Quote:
Humans have been hardwired for survival over millions of years.  Early survival was based upon taking what you could get/find.  That doesn't fit well with true Communism.  Even Ants and Bees don't have a true communistic structure because you have heirachy within the colony.


Human beings are social.  We've been hardwired to work together.  Alone, we are too weak and slow to exist in the wild without technology or cooperation.  Taking what you can get/find doesn't work. You'd be kicked right out of our group. Our emotional make-up and group dynamic tend to support older group members or weaker group members regardless of their ablilties to contribute.  Sound like anything familiar?  

I'm not saying that Communism is the best economic system.  I don't know what the best ecomonic system is.

What I AM saying is that when people react with fear to the word communism, they're really afraid of Totalitarianism.



See bold in first quote above.   Wink   The word communism today is used like the word Kleenex is.  While a facial tissue may not be a Kleenex everyone knows what you are talking about.  

State owns all, one party system of government = totalitarianism= the working definition of communism.  Say it and people know what you are referring to and it is not the strict dictionary meaning.

-P.
and yes, I would be very afraid to live under such a system.  
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DonnaH_again
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #85 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 4:52pm
 
What you say is probably right on the mark, Paul, but my question was Quote:
but do we all know the true definition of communism?  


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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #86 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 5:56pm
 
Paul has it right as far as I know. The state owns the works and is happy to take a nice slice of the pie for showing you how to run your booth at the farmers market selling your corn crop. Out of this...in effect.... you are alloted one coat, one pair of shoes, one place to shop for one kind of food, one kind of entertainment, and so on. It's not exactly meant to be totalitarian but it runs against human nature and usually winds up.....perhaps.....like a really crappy example of  fascism. It was bounced around here for a time but to no avail. It ain't any fun.

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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #87 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 6:22pm
 
Quote:
What you say is probably right on the mark, Paul, but my question was Quote:
but do we all know the true definition of communism?  




Donna, I do not think the majority of folks realize pure communism is without heads of state, no personal ownership, no class stratification, and basically no government.  You own nothing and all are workers.  It is supposed to be the final social evolution of a society. 

Since pure communism can never exist the true meaning of the word is relegated to academic settings.

-P.
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #88 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 7:12pm
 
Paul said it better than I. I should have said that because it doesn't work, a pretty nasty bunch grabs hold and tries to make it seem like it does.

Charlie
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #89 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 7:58pm
 
Holy smokes, the discussion turned intelligent.

Paul and Charlie, I agree with you both.  (world ends... film at 11)

The reason I call Obama a communist (and remember, I really said Marxist but I began using the word communist exactly for the reasons Paul talks about) is because he consistently says that it is governments job to take our money and give it to others to 'even things out'.  If the oil companies make too much money, punish them.  If I make too much money working my ass off, I should pay a hefty penalty (higher taxes) because I can afford it.  If you want to be a dirt bag and not work, it's MY job to earn enough money to give the government enough to support your sorry ass.  If I die and want to leave my wealth to my children, TOO BAD, I have to give it to the government.  Why, because that's our responsibility.  It is like he's saying I'm a bad person if I work hard and make myself successful, because the only way I can do that is by taking away somebody else's opportunity to succeed.  It is not communist at all, actually, it is Marxism.

Republicans SUCK, well and truly.  But I will not vote for a man who wants to use my back to carry the idiots who refuse to help themselves.  Call me an insensitive a-hole if you like, but I am one of the most giving people you will ever meet.  The thing is, I like to give from the heart, not have it removed from my paycheck according to some Marxist plan.  From each according to their ability, to each according to his need.  Who said that?  Sounds all nice and Utopian, but it is Marxism, plain and simple.

And it's not like I'm some tax dodger either... I lost everything I owned (EVERYTHING) because of a f'd up tax code.  I lost my house, my business, my cars, my RV, my toys.  Every thing I owned.  Did the government care?  Hell no, they didn't care if I lived in a shopping cart.  They didn't care if I could feed my kids.  They only saw an outstanding tax bill of $672,000 and come hell or high water, they were going to get it.  I paid it in full and I am starting over.  Fine.  But I'm not helping vote in another Marxist.
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #90 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 8:17pm
 
Quote:
 If I make too much money working my ass off, I should pay a hefty penalty (higher taxes) because I can afford it.  If you want to be a dirt bag and not work, it's MY job to earn enough money to give the government enough to support your sorry ass.  


Kinda like this quote, bro?......I agree! Angry

Quote:
We do pay for it with our extremly high taxes and script charges however its not all in 1 lump some and we dont need insurance or we suffer like they do in the us so ya the UK has it better i would hate to be poor and live in the us just food for thought!!!


Some people just dont get it!  Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2008 at 8:34pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #91 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 8:26pm
 
The sad pattern of Obama friendships
- Post Media Reply

One has to really wonder how well Barack Obama knows his close associates. When Obama finally put distance between himself and his pastor of 20 years, he claimed that the Jeremiah Wright who spoke at a press function in Detroit was not the man he heard preaching every Sunday. Now he claims that the Tony Rezko who got convicted yesterday on 16 counts of fraud and corruption isn�t the Tony Rezko who raised over $250,000 for Obama through 2004:

Obama has said whenever asked � and he has been asked repeatedly � that his relationship to Rezko, who had a history of befriending up-and-coming Illinois politicians, never strayed into official business. Obama said Rezko asked no favors and that he did him none.

Rezko has not raised money for Obama since 2004, and the Obama campaign gave to charity the donations linked to Rezko.

�I�m saddened by today�s verdict,� Obama said in a statement Wednesday. �This isn�t the Tony Rezko I knew, but now he has been convicted by a jury on multiple charges that once again shine a spotlight on the need for reform.�

Well, hold the phone for a moment. The timetable of the prosecution clearly shows that Obama �knew� this Rezko. The activities for which Rezko got convicted took place in 2004 and before. Rezko raised money for Obama for several years, the last of which was 2004, after which Rezko tapped out and got too hot for Obama and other politicians.

Obama�s association with Rezko coincides with Rezko�s corruption. Obama wants us to ignore the obvious and go away with the impression that Rezko somehow changed after their association ended, but that�s simply not the truth. Either Obama turned a blind eye to Rezko�s corrupt behavior or he didn�t have the judgment to see it.

It doesn�t work like that when a politician wants to sell his superior judgment as a key reason to elect him. So far, Obama wants us to trust his judgment despite the fact that he supposedly was ignorant of his preacher�s hate-filled sermons, directed taxpayer money to a Catholic priest who thinks America is the �greatest sin against God�, thinks William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn and their �overthrow capitalism� rhetoric is �mainstream�, and now is shocked, shocked! to find out that his fundraiser and real-estate partner was a corrupt fraud.

That shows extremely poor judgment in selecting associates. Why should we want to see that kind of judgment applied as President?

You be the judge!  Wink
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #92 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 8:27pm
 
Quote:
Some people just dont get it!


And some people (the same people) have become so dependent that they've forgotten what freedom tastes like.

Their forefathers - the ones who founded this country - are rolling over in their graves.
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #93 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 8:30pm
 
Quote:
Their forefathers - the ones who founded this country - are rolling over in their graves.

More like spinning like a rotisserie chicken.
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #94 - Aug 12th, 2008 at 11:11pm
 
Ok...a couple of things. First, the Obama pastor thing. Sad to say that this is the kind of thing we are supposed to worry about rather than war, energy, financial collapse, drug company greed feeding off the poor and sick, and all the financial wizards that are estimated to make 650 billion this year in the poverty industry, refinancing mortages at ursurious rates and the credit industry that eats away home equity of what's left of the middle class...and they prey on those least able to understand the very businesses that are "helping" them by charging 120% interest and even more in some cases...but no. We have to worry about some goofball's lack of what some think of as patriotism and that fact that Obama happened to be in the same church. It's not important, I guess that the Southern Christian Leadship Conference is a partner in a medical debt collection business and is quietly working to issue its own credit cards. Shameful! How un-Christian can you get? This makes Obama's gaff a little less important.

I would like it if everybody had bootstraps with which to pull themselves up. They don't. It's not a redistribution of wealth to make sure the old and infirm don't have to choose between keeping the heat on or getting drugs so they can stay alive. It's common decency and the way it was 50 years ago when people did pretty damned well for themselves and really did look out for the other guy.

Just how many times are we to swallow the tax cuts for CEOs when it's been demonstrated for 10 years that it's a flop. You can't buy trickle down economics after all this time. It's just the opposite: The money is flowing up from the bottom to a very thin slice of the economy that is doing just fine. The last figures I read are that those making billions, have had about a 2% increase in their wealth while those making less than $30,000 a year have lost about 4%. It's not communisitic to look twice at this. It's fine for the rich to get richer but it's dangerous for everybody when no one cares that the poor steadily get poorer every year. It's dangerous. Warren Buffet said it well: He thinks that something is askew when his tax rate is the same as someone making $20,000 a year. Tax cuts are insane today.

Even Reagan should have known better. You have to toss us a bone now and then. He had some experience with the poor and had his foot in the door at least but he didn't care. Since then, the Republicans have ceased to exist. I don't know what the party is today but it isn't anything resembling what I grew up with.

It's time to kill Republican vetoes, which is why I will vote Democratic. That alone is enough for me.

Charlie


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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #95 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 12:02am
 
As a country, we deserve what we vote into office.  You're right Charlie, there are no Republicans anymore.  But I still have to choose between someone who promises to make it much worse (my opinion, I acknowledge that) and someone I don't like but can find some common ground with.  Every single 'policy' that Obama has ever touted involves sucking more money from my pocket to build up more government programs.  Where the hell does he think this money is going to come from?  I can at least point to a *few* policies of McCain that I agree with.  Like never once voting for earmarks.  Ever.  Try to keep that up in the dragon's lair of Washington DC!  That man has some integrity, at least a little.

I don't know who Obama is.  I don't trust a single word he says.  I don't like the long list of associations with established criminals and anti-Americans like Ayers.  I don't think he has our best interests at heart at all.  I think he will say anything to get elected.  Those are just my opinions, and Republican or Democrat, I would never elect a man like him.  Thank God I have that right still, to vote my conscience.

From all the rhetoric I hear from the pro-Obama camp, this vote is just retaliation for 8 years of Bush and has nothing to do with the qualifications or integrity of their candidate.  That's a sad fact.
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #96 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 12:20am
 
I happen to like McCain. He used to give the worst of the GOP a hard time but when he began showing up at rallies with Jerry Falwell, things got iffy.

Charlie
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #97 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 7:59am
 
You tube=> Freedom to Fascism

Also check out "We the People Foundation"

Take your BP meds first.

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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #98 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 11:28am
 
Charlie wrote on Aug 12th, 2008 at 11:11pm:
You can't buy trickle down economics after all this time. It's just the opposite: The money is flowing up from the bottom to a very thin slice of the economy that is doing just fine.


Trickle down, the name given to the Mellon Plan in an era after the Gilded Age that capitalist's new sense of social responsibility would preclude the need for aggressive federal intervention in the marketplace.  It seemed to stand dependent upon an ethical capacity of business somewhat.
 Coolidge agreed and believed that corporate productivity would trickle down to all and did not typically constrast the needs of business with those of the public.  Cutting taxes to the rich would lead them to invest the windfall and spur production advances, which would benefit consumers and workers alike.  Also though, the term "special interests" was coined at this time.
 This then masked the dangers of a public investment deficit, a swelling of a middle class could now afford luxury, largely on the installment plan (parallels to housing today). It was a hope of Cal that the mores of the previous century might survive the new one, and that competition wouldn't degenerate into a mere selfish scramble of rewards.  This perhaps is what Charlie's posts seem to look at.

In a sense, what has trickled down has also trickled down and out of the country, in one example, jobs.  



Quote:
From all the rhetoric I hear from the pro-Obama camp, this vote is just retaliation for 8 years of Bush and has nothing to do with the qualifications or integrity of their candidate.  That's a sad fact.


I can see this as a part.  

With the emergence of media back in the 20's, films and radio, different compentencies were required in politics, horse-trading skills and public persona the chief political instrument.  There's an internet today.
 Cal mentioned success lies in "how a president gauges, guides, and gives expression to the mood of the people he leads."  In this particular economic atmosphere there are listening ears to the word "change", easy enough to understand without caring about the particular details.


As to a thread entitled, "This is what the democrats..." and then discussing communism, I can't quite follow the dotted lines.  I'll agree with Charlie, "bounced around but to no avail."  Safeguard?  Cal again: "...human nature cannot be changed by an act of the legislature."
 Paul touched upon that similar idea about communism in his posts.
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Re: This is what the democrats......
Reply #99 - Aug 13th, 2008 at 2:22pm
 
Kevin_M wrote on Aug 13th, 2008 at 11:28am:
[As to a thread entitled, "This is what the democrats..." and then discussing communism, I can't quite follow the dotted lines.  I'll agree with Charlie, "bounced around but to no avail."  Safeguard?  Cal again: "...human nature cannot be changed by an act of the legislature."


I think the topic of communism cropped up because of the likes of Pelosi et. al.  These are the "new democrats" or "progressive" democrats.   They are not democrats, they are socialists or basically communists (I use the common working definition here)  You can bet they would like to just have their party and no other.  They think you are to stupid to run your life and manage your money.   Obama was mentored by a communist and he has learned well.  (Frank Marshall Davis)  Obama's voting reccord is one of the most liberal in congress.  These facts should give raised eyebrows about the true direction he will take this country if he was elected.  Congress, with a good bunch being the "new democrats" and a president cut from the same cloth.........

I would worry.

-P.
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