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Right to life....? (Read 5687 times)
Paul98
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Right to life....?
Aug 23rd, 2008 at 10:42am
 
This is a continuation of Jonny's thread of "what the dems's want"  didn't want to hijack his thread anymore.

Ya know, when I was young and in my 20's I used to think abortion was OK.  Now I do not think that way.  Ya know why?  I have lived enough and have seen death, killed many animals and I have changed my thinking about life and nature.

I used to think nothing of shooting an animal.  Never did it for sport, only of pest control.  As I got older, it became harder to pull the trigger.  I allways did a direct head shot to make a quick kill.  As I got older and saw the extreem determination and tenaciousness (sp?) of mother nature, I have begun to change my mind about life in general. 

Life is pretty cheap if you look at it in the broad sense.  you can allways make another (human or animal) and some form of life will fill the void.  I have had animals on death's doorstep and just beyond (Zomie) live to grow and prosper....I have had healthy animals just die with no apparent reason.   

Now that I am older and have seen what nature dishes out I have come to the conclusion that life isn't cheap.  In the blink of an eye it , life can be snuffed out. 

I have no regret of exterminating violent killers.  Human or animal.  I do have a problem with abortion.  I think in early stages of pregnancy, it is OK to terminate it if it is the result of rape or bad genes.  (you know the child is doomed to a life of pain and suffering) beyond that, late termination of pgegnacy is wrong. 

If humans engage in reproductive activity, they should either prevent preagnancy or be willing to support the result.  I really have no sympathy with someone (women in this case) bitching about fucking around and then want to squirt a kid into the trashbasket.  it is just wrong.  You have a choice.....Would walk into a field of poison ivey and not take precaution?  Don't get me wrong, it is a males job too, but females are the incubator.

-P.
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Melissa
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #1 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 10:53am
 
Is it freedom to have others regulate what we can or cannot do with our bodies, baby inside or not? 

It's a very prickly line that's drawn. 

There are always consequences to our actions, and personally, I am not the one they'll have to answer to eventually.   

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.
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ClusterChuck
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #2 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 11:12am
 
Although I would never want my child aborted, it really isn't my call.  It is called the right of choice.  The mother ultimately should have the right to decide.  Hypothetically, I could be the father (fat chance of THAT ever happening!) but it would still not be my decision.  It is hers.

No one should be able to force their beliefs and morals on another.

So, what I am saying is that I am against any of my offspring to be aborted, it should still be a person's right to choose what is best for themselves.  That being said, I am dead set against some of these bimbos that use abortion as a means of birth control, with multiple abortions!  Anyone can make a mistake, but you SHOULD learn from that mistake, and take steps to ensure that it never happens again.

This is a VERY touchy subject, but glad to see that it is being discussed.  I just hope and pray, that it CAN be discussed, and every one allowed to have their own opinion, without being ostricized for that opinion.

Chuck
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deltadarlin
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #3 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 12:15pm
 
If anybody here thinks that abortion is an easy decision, I suggest you go talk to the counselors at some of the clinics.

'darlin
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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2008 at 12:20pm by deltadarlin »  

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Mat
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #4 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 12:36pm
 
If abortion rights is about the rights to do something to ones bodies, then tell me why suicide and assisted suicide is a crime. Dems say that they are out for the little guy, but yet they support the deaths of the littlest guys of them all.. Mel is right, actions have consequences, you play, you pay. Maybe not in this lifetime, but.......I am sure killing your baby is a hard decision, one that will weigh on ones conscience for the rest of their days.
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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2008 at 12:38pm by Mat »  
 
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BarbaraD
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #5 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 1:57pm
 
In the case of incest or rape there may be justification (in my opinion) but I just can't see abortion in any other way being right. Maybe it's my Catholic upbringing, but there are just too many people who WANT babies and can't have them.

And yes, there is a choice. A woman does NOT have to get pregnant.

And yes, I've been to abortion clinics, homes for unwed mothers and seen backstreet abortions - none are a pretty site.

But it is legal and women do have a choice and until that is changed, it will continue and there's nothing my opinion can do about it.

As to the death penalty -- there are just some crimes that require it (in my opinion) and I live in a state that uses it for the purpose it was set out for.

Hugs BD
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ClusterChuck
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #6 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 2:46pm
 
BarbaraD wrote on Aug 23rd, 2008 at 1:57pm:
As to the death penalty --  I live in a state that uses it for the purpose it was set out for.


Ummmm ... If they use it for its intended purposes, WHY are YOU still around???

Chuck

(BAD Chuckie!!!  Bad, BAD, BAD!!)
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Charlie
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #7 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 3:59pm
 
I shouldn't do it but I'm helpless as you know.......  

If you are Catholic, I fully understand a position on abortion and the abolition of the death penalty. I have to say that I admire this consistency rather than picking and choosing. No one should like abortion. I don't but basically it's nobody's business and has always been around for those than can afford it. It's not at all new. It's wrecked politics and results in lots of unqualified legislators that get elected on pro life issues only and make things worse by having no idea of history other than attempts to demonize most women.

Years ago, I barely knew what abortion was and never heard it called that. Once it became something other than a moral issue, the whole world learned everything about it by pro-life zealots. These people in their attempts to vilify and scare people managed to explain the scores of abortion methods, who provides it, all the things that can happen if you are not careful, drugs, doctors, clinics, history, frequency, ways to do it yourself, make known people who will do it for nothing, what politicians to back to keep abortion legal, what states to go to for help, timing, who and how much quacks may charge for illegal and dangerous procedures, even information not readily known to some clinics and a doctor or two, and what doctors became targets for lunatics. It's pro-lifers that have brought out all this information in incredible detail with thousands of articles, literature and television programs so even people with little knowledge of it, know that it's an option and not as hard as it once was to obtain.  Yessir, what a job they have done to make it more common.

Once abortion is illegal, the frequency of partial birth abortion will increase. Poor or desperate women who want abortion will hide their pregnancy and try to do it themselves or likely use some unqualified help. There will be some truly frightening discoveries in dumpsters....along with a huge increase in deadly botched abortions leaving the remaining children in some families, homeless and some likely stuck with unqualified relatives and even some others that barely tolerate kids in the first place. There is a good case after all this new information provided my anti-abortion ranters...not pro-choicers, that making abortion information common for everybody can be a form of child abuse. Children, in this mess aren't likely to benefit from much visiting imprisoned parents either. These are just some of the consequences and this kind of thing won't make for well-adjusted kids. These things, for the most part, have been overlooked but made much more likely by the very groups that rant about protection of our children.

In short: Pre-birth, you name it, you got it. Pre-school: You're on your own but morally sound to pro-lifers.

Charlie
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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2008 at 7:41pm by Charlie »  

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Sandy_C
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #8 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 4:03pm
 
Mounting soapbox now.

I am not PRO abortion or ANTI abortion.  I don't like the idea of abortion in any terms.  However, I am for a mother's right to choose.  To CHOOSE being the key word. 

I agree, termination of a pregnancy in the last trimester is wrong unless it's because it risks the life of the mother, or the baby is deformed in some catastrophic way.  If the mother is healthy and the baby is healthy, then Mommy has had 6 months to decide whether she wants this child or not.  Too late.  Tough!

In the first(preferably) or second trimester of pregnancy, most women, unless they are woefully ignorant of their own bodies, know that they are pregnant.  Given their individual circumstances, rape, incest, six kids already, no money, have the right to terminate that pregnancy if they so CHOOSE, for whatever reason they so CHOOSE.

This issue has been hashed out for years ever since Roe v Wade.  I'm old enough to remember before Roe v Wade when women took matters in to their own hands by going to backstreet butchers for an abortion, sometimes leading to their own death, or sterility. 

This has gone one since God created humans.  But laws have been made by men almost since God created humans.  Until a man is placed in the position of carrying in his belly an unwanted, can't pay for, can't raise the child situation - let him keep his mouth shut - and that goes for all political Presidential candidates and Congress.

It's the woman's right to CHOOSE - period!

Off Soapbox now.

Sandy





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Brew
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #9 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 4:10pm
 
Lips Sealed
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #10 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 4:29pm
 
Quote:
Lips Sealed



Good choice, Brew.

S
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Tara Ann
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #11 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 4:38pm
 
BarbaraD wrote on Aug 23rd, 2008 at 1:57pm:
In the case of incest or rape there may be justification (in my opinion) but I just can't see abortion in any other way being right. Maybe it's my Catholic upbringing, but there are just too many people who WANT babies and can't have them.


Couldn't have said it better myself.
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LeLimey
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #12 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 4:54pm
 
Yes there are alot of people who want baby's and can't have them but you know what? Any woman is damned if she has an abortion and damned if she gives a child away.

Everyone is so quick to jump on their moral soapbox with how terrible "she" is for either killing a child or giving it away that "she" is that she is nothing but cannon fodder in either case.

There are far too many situations where people who should never have had children have had them and abused them and far too many again where there were 100's of children in orphanages because people didn't want a girl/boy/redhead.

I personally don't think I could cope inside if I had an abortion, it horrifies me, it revolts me, it scares me but thats me, thats my choice and that is why I am and always will be pro choice. It's not my place to make other's decisions for them.

Before we had legal abortion we had plenty of back street abortionists. Criminalise it and we will again. Is that what you want women to go through?

I don't like the idea of abortion, I'd do my damndest to talk my child out of one but, it it was her choice, then I'd support her all the way.


Quote:
Don't get me wrong, it is a males job too,


How very big of you

Quote:
but females are the incubator


and how very revealing.

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Ray
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #13 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 5:27pm
 
This is too tough of a subject for me to comment in an open forum.  If you are tremendously interested in my humble opinion, please call me or PM me and I will do my best to bring my points forward.

Ray
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Mat
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #14 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 5:32pm
 
Choosing to put pot and any other illegal drug in your body is illegal.

Choosing to sell a kidney from your body is illegal.

Terminating your own life is illegal.

All three are victimless. All are your own choices.

Being poor or ignorant allows you to kill an innocent child. Sure go ahead. Hey its your body, your choice. Whatever rocks your world. Tell yourself what ever you need to to justify your actions so that you can sleep at night. And being a man means you have no right or say whatso ever, except the right to pay 18 years of child support if she Chooses to keep the child.

Funny thing, I have never heard a pregnant woman refer to her baby as a fetus. No one says I have a fetus growing inside my body.

But then again abortion is a great way to control the population, 15 million since Row VS Wade, And anyone who kills a baby really ought not to have one anyway, those kids are probably better off anyway. Keep up the good work ladies.
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #15 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 5:40pm
 
Mat wrote on Aug 23rd, 2008 at 5:32pm:
. Keep up the good work ladies.



Nice- real nice!!!   Angry
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #16 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 5:55pm
 
great thread. there is allways ' the accident ', given the choice, i would rather be born in to a loveing family, or at least a fair world, alas, for an accident, lifes often not like that. and then the 'accidents' to take shit for the rest of its life for being an under achiever. removing the choice would be a great mistake, we have to find a way to grow resonable, responsible adults. 'in my opinion'. andrew.
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Jonny
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #17 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 6:03pm
 
ClusterChuck wrote on Aug 23rd, 2008 at 11:12am:

No one should be able to force their beliefs and morals on another.


Nuff said.......is there anything here to be talked about?
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #18 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 6:15pm
 
I really hate this subject but here goes.

I dislike the idea of abortion when it is used to just get rid of baby after baby when there are so many contreseptives out there it is disgusting.

I do however think abortion is needed by some, rape is a obviouse one also no contreseptive is 100% and it can happen both my children where conseved using contresetives but they where in no way a mistake so if your contreseptive fails then you should have the right to choose, there is also the poor if someone knows they cant give that child a good upbringing and  they know the child will suffer then please I beg of you to choose there is already to many suffering children in the world

I believe there should be forced abortions in some cases if a mother has had 6 children and they all got taken by social servces due to abuse and misstreatment and they get pregnant again they should be forced to termanate by law also if a woman is married to a abuser or pedophile she should be given the choice leave the marrage or termanate your pregnancy, I may sound harsh but there are far to many children already suffering in this world.

Regards
Brian
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PF Wishes to all.&&We all live with this crap But it is not who we are dont let it control you!!!.
 
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Jonny
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #19 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 6:24pm
 
BrianJ wrote on Aug 23rd, 2008 at 6:15pm:
I believe there should be forced abortions in some cases


Your brain dead, right Brian?
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BrianJ
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #20 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 6:37pm
 
Firstly mate read my reasons if you had seen and lived the stuff i have you would agree oh and btw i dont call anyone on here for there opinions weather i agree or not so please dont take this to the level of insults this is a discission forum not a place to abuse others thank you
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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2008 at 6:41pm by BrianJ »  

PF Wishes to all.&&We all live with this crap But it is not who we are dont let it control you!!!.
 
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Jonny
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #21 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 6:47pm
 
BrianJ wrote on Aug 23rd, 2008 at 6:37pm:
Firstly mate read my reasons if you had seen and lived the stuff i have you would agree oh and btw i dont call anyone on here for there opinions weather i agree or not so please dont take this to the level of insults this is a discission forum not a place to abuse others thank you


Do you really feel that I abused you?

I have posted here every day for the last nine years....and your going to tell me whats what?

Sorry, Sir........you are brain dead!  Cheesy
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #22 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 7:14pm
 
Dude please where did i tell you whats what ?? oh i get it you`re a old timer here so i have to agree and if i dont i am brain dead ok tell ya what mate you dont agree with me thats fine i hope you never have to find a abused child starving to in a flat when you go to work
in its own mess crying for its mother who was on holiday in spain for 2 weeks but hey there ya go lets, let them have children and let them children die from starvation only wanting there mother im sure its better to have not lived atall.

I did miss a part out befor sorry my mistake my comments where a last resort thing if they had the chance to get pregnant, if it was my choice  any abusive indevidual should be sterilized by law so they cant produce life anyhow

i dont see my self as brain dead i am just part of a violant ignorant self obsessed race that cares for nothing but there own well being

Oh and yes i consider being called brain dead a abusive comment and i will not lower my self to that on this forum or any other so have a nice day and PF wishes to you

Brian
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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2008 at 7:18pm by BrianJ »  

PF Wishes to all.&&We all live with this crap But it is not who we are dont let it control you!!!.
 
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Jonny
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #23 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 7:29pm
 
PF wishes to you also.  Kiss
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Charlie
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Re: Right to life....?
Reply #24 - Aug 23rd, 2008 at 7:37pm
 
I liked Brew's reply.  It's a bad subject here and as you can see, I'm guilty. The topic brings out the worst in just about everybody.

It's complicated. Our leaders should treat us with some respect. Don't mistake stark simplicity for wisdom. It's a better approach.

That's pretty scarce these days.

Charlie
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