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AIG shares $$$ (Read 14508 times)
Guiseppi
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #50 - Sep 24th, 2008 at 11:46pm
 
Been enjoying these political threads, brings out lots of facts I never knew..... (some what tongue in cheek, did you know 90% of statistics are made up on the spot? he he he) When my two adult kids come to me for advice on how to vote I just tell them beware of one line answers:

This war is only about oil!
Obama will turn the country Muslim
McCain will lead us into world war 3
Obama is an Iraqui plant...(The guy who told me that really believed it!)

The issues are just too complex for the 30 second ads and e-mails most people tend to base their vote on!

Keep the debating hot and heavy, as annoying as it can be it does flesh out the issues. Even if the bottom line tends to be voting for the lesser of two evils every 4 years, the good news is, you get to vote, it is counted, and it does count!

Guiseppis 2 cents worth!
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #51 - Sep 24th, 2008 at 11:47pm
 
Quote:
BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Sep 23rd, 2008 at 11:09pm:
BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Sep 17th, 2008 at 11:46pm:
FRE and FNM..........I would bet if you bought 1000 shares of each it would be worth $20k in the next 10 years.  1000 shares of each would cost about $750.

Or, it could be worth $0.  

You never know.   Cool


Did anyone listen to Daddy?
That $750 investment one week ago is worth over $2,600 today.  


Your kidding, right?  Shocked Shocked Shocked


Nope.
And today at the close it was worth $3,630.


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BobG
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #52 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 7:44pm
 
I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to all Americans as a 'Dividend'.

To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.
So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals to a hefty '$425,000.00'

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a 'Dividend'
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25.5 Billion right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife have $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your fam ily?
Pay off your mortgage, housing crisis solved'
Repay college loans, a great boost to new grads'
Put away money for college, it’ll be there'
Save it in a bank, create money to loan to entrepreneurs'
Buy a new car, create jobs'
Invest in the market, capital drives growth'
Pay for your parent’s medical insurance, health care improves'

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it..instead of trickling out

If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+

As for AIG, liquidate it and Sell off its parts.
Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and 'AIG doesn’t’ we were not invited to the last 10 years of 'party time' bonuses

And remember, The this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. Tell me why it won't work.................................
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Melissa
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #53 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 7:54pm
 
BobG, you ROCK!!!
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #54 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 7:57pm
 
BobG wrote on Sep 25th, 2008 at 7:44pm:
I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to all Americans as a 'Dividend'.

To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.
So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals to a hefty '$425,000.00'

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a 'Dividend'
Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25.5 Billion right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife have $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your fam ily?
Pay off your mortgage, housing crisis solved'
Repay college loans, a great boost to new grads'
Put away money for college, it’ll be there'
Save it in a bank, create money to loan to entrepreneurs'
Buy a new car, create jobs'
Invest in the market, capital drives growth'
Pay for your parent’s medical insurance, health care improves'

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it..instead of trickling out

If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+

As for AIG, liquidate it and Sell off its parts.
Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and 'AIG doesn’t’ we were not invited to the last 10 years of 'party time' bonuses

And remember, The this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. Tell me why it won't work.................................


OMG, now THAT is some funny shit.
I think this kind of math is probably what got us into this mess!!!
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"Fool me once, shame on, shame on you.  Fool - can't get fooled again"&&&&&&Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half the population is stupider than that.&&&&
 
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #55 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 7:57pm
 
"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
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Jonny
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #56 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 8:32pm
 
Is this bail out crap?....are they rushing into this?

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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #57 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 8:38pm
 
lol, more like 'to each according to fuzzy math..........


Smiley

Thats even better than last week when Stinky got 19/20 correct on her test.........for a score of 90%.

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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #58 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 8:58pm
 
Count me in!  Funny stuff kids.

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Charlie
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #59 - Sep 25th, 2008 at 9:01pm
 
Guiseppi wrote on Sep 24th, 2008 at 11:46pm:
Been enjoying these political threads, brings out lots of facts I never knew..... (some what tongue in cheek, did you know 90% of statistics are made up on the spot? he he he) When my two adult kids come to me for advice on how to vote I just tell them beware of one line answers:

This war is only about oil!
Obama will turn the country Muslim
McCain will lead us into world war 3
Obama is an Iraqui plant...(The guy who told me that really believed it!)

The issues are just too complex for the 30 second ads and e-mails most people tend to base their vote on!

Keep the debating hot and heavy, as annoying as it can be it does flesh out the issues. Even if the bottom line tends to be voting for the lesser of two evils every 4 years, the good news is, you get to vote, it is counted, and it does count!

Guiseppis 2 cents worth!


joe your such a lovable guy Kiss Grin
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #60 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 8:29am
 
Quote:
Is this bail out crap?....are they rushing into this?

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Well Jonny, here is Congressman Ron Paul's letter to the President (I also sent it in an email, I thought it was pertinent)...

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Quote:
My Answer to the President
September 25th, 2008 by Ron Paul
Dear Friends:

The financial meltdown the economists of the Austrian School predicted has arrived.

We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market’s attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets.

Last night the president addressed the nation about the financial crisis. There is no point in going through his remarks line by line, since I’d only be repeating what I’ve been saying over and over - not just for the past several days, but for years and even decades.

Still, at least a few observations are necessary.

The president assures us that his administration “is working with Congress to address the root cause behind much of the instability in our markets.” Care to take a guess at whether the Federal Reserve and its money creation spree were even mentioned?

We are told that “low interest rates” led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support, and that would not have been made at all if the interest rate had been permitted to tell the truth instead of being toyed with by the Fed.

Not a word about any of that, of course, because Americans might then discover how the great wise men in Washington caused this great debacle. Better to keep scapegoating the mortgage industry or “wildcat capitalism” (as if we actually have a pure free market!).

Speaking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the president said: “Because these companies were chartered by Congress, many believed they were guaranteed by the federal government. This allowed them to borrow enormous sums of money, fuel the market for questionable investments, and put our financial system at risk.”

Doesn’t that prove the foolishness of chartering Fannie and Freddie in the first place? Doesn’t that suggest that maybe, just maybe, government may have contributed to this mess? And of course, by bailing out Fannie and Freddie, hasn’t the federal government shown that the “many” who “believed they were guaranteed by the federal government” were in fact correct?

Then come the scare tactics. If we don’t give dictatorial powers to the Treasury Secretary “the stock market would drop even more, which would reduce the value of your retirement account. The value of your home could plummet.” Left unsaid, naturally, is that with the bailout and all the money and credit that must be produced out of thin air to fund it, the value of your retirement account will drop anyway, because the value of the dollar will suffer a precipitous decline. As for home prices, they are obviously much too high, and supply and demand cannot equilibrate if government insists on propping them up.

It’s the same destructive strategy that government tried during the Great Depression: prop up prices at all costs. The Depression went on for over a decade. On the other hand, when liquidation was allowed to occur in the equally devastating downturn of 1921, the economy recovered within less than a year.

The president also tells us that Senators McCain and Obama will join him at the White House today in order to figure out how to get the bipartisan bailout passed. The two senators would do their country much more good if they stayed on the campaign trail debating who the bigger celebrity is, or whatever it is that occupies their attention these days.

F.A. Hayek won the Nobel Prize for showing how central banks’ manipulation of interest rates creates the boom-bust cycle with which we are sadly familiar. In 1932, in the depths of the Great Depression, he described the foolish policies being pursued in his day - and which are being proposed, just as destructively, in our own:

Instead of furthering the inevitable liquidation of the maladjustments brought about by the boom during the last three years, all conceivable means have been used to prevent that readjustment from taking place; and one of these means, which has been repeatedly tried though without success, from the earliest to the most recent stages of depression, has been this deliberate policy of credit expansion.

To combat the depression by a forced credit expansion is to attempt to cure the evil by the very means which brought it about; because we are suffering from a misdirection of production, we want to create further misdirection - a procedure that can only lead to a much more severe crisis as soon as the credit expansion comes to an end… It is probably to this experiment, together with the attempts to prevent liquidation once the crisis had come, that we owe the exceptional severity and duration of the depression.

The only thing we learn from history, I am afraid, is that we do not learn from history.

The very people who have spent the past several years assuring us that the economy is fundamentally sound, and who themselves foolishly cheered the extension of all these novel kinds of mortgages, are the ones who now claim to be the experts who will restore prosperity! Just how spectacularly wrong, how utterly without a clue, does someone have to be before his expert status is called into question?

Oh, and did you notice that the bailout is now being called a “rescue plan”? I guess “bailout” wasn’t sitting too well with the American people.

The very people who with somber faces tell us of their deep concern for the spread of democracy around the world are the ones most insistent on forcing a bill through Congress that the American people overwhelmingly oppose. The very fact that some of you seem to think you’re supposed to have a voice in all this actually seems to annoy them.

I continue to urge you to contact your representatives and give them a piece of your mind. I myself am doing everything I can to promote the correct point of view on the crisis. Be sure also to educate yourselves on these subjects - the Campaign for Liberty blog is an excellent place to start. Read the posts, ask questions in the comment section, and learn.

H.G. Wells once said that civilization was in a race between education and catastrophe. Let us learn the truth and spread it as far and wide as our circumstances allow. For the truth is the greatest weapon we have.

In liberty,

Ron Paul
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« Last Edit: Sep 26th, 2008 at 8:31am by Melissa »  

Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way.  ~Bernie S. Siegel
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #61 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 9:24am
 
After losing my job Wednesday, I am truely frightened about the state of the economy and how this will play out on a very personal level.

I fear the unemployment will not be able to cover the basic bills.  Very very scared.

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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #62 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 9:38am
 
Pegg, I'm so very sorry you lost your job.

I am trying to prepare as best I can for the possibility of Jesse losing his.

Very scary times.
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Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way.  ~Bernie S. Siegel
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Bob P
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #63 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 9:38am
 
Bob, that's $425/person not $425,000.
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #64 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 9:42am
 
See what happens when your calculator doesn't have enough places...
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #65 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 10:12am
 
Bob P wrote on Sep 26th, 2008 at 9:38am:
Bob, that's $425/person not $425,000.



DING, DING, DING!!!!

I didn't have the heart to come right out and say it.  Whoever wrote that seemed pretty proud of their brilliance.


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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #66 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 12:49pm
 
Melissa wrote on Sep 26th, 2008 at 8:29am:
Quote:
Is this bail out crap?....are they rushing into this?

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Well Jonny, here is Congressman Ron Paul's letter to the President (I also sent it in an email, I thought it was pertinent)...


if ron paul is running he needs to be in the debates and he needs to be on the ballot. Angry

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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #67 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 1:07pm
 
Wow!!...I'm still reeling over the 30% tax rate. (that's some fuzzy math). Too bad the citizens that vote are counted only by popular vote, not electorate.
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #68 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 1:29pm
 
-johnny- wrote on Sep 26th, 2008 at 12:49pm:
Melissa wrote on Sep 26th, 2008 at 8:29am:
Quote:
Is this bail out crap?....are they rushing into this?

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Well Jonny, here is Congressman Ron Paul's letter to the President (I also sent it in an email, I thought it was pertinent)...


if ron paul is running he needs to be in the debates and he needs to be on the ballot. Angry


He has withdrawn from the race and recently announced he is backing Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party for President.  There are still many who will be writing Ron Paul's name in on the ballot regardless...
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Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way.  ~Bernie S. Siegel
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #69 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 1:47pm
 
i wonder how many people will pencil in pencil in somebodies name instead of voting with the masses.
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #70 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 1:54pm
 
-johnny- wrote on Sep 26th, 2008 at 1:47pm:
i wonder how many people will pencil in pencil in somebodies name instead of voting with the masses.

Me thinks it'll be quite a few...
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #71 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 2:37pm
 
Dems Bailout Proposal Redirects ‘Paulson’s Profits’ To Left-Wing Groups
2008-09-26 at 3:06 am · Filed under 2008, Activism, Conservatism, CounterPulse, Culture, Current Events, Economics, Media, Politics, Vox Populi

-By Warner Todd Huston

Bush told the country that we are in an economic crisis and his Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson, came up with an idea that would, it is claimed, end up actually making money for the U.S. Treasury in the long run. That’s all well and good, but the Democrats already have a plan to siphon off any repayment of the people’s money back to the treasury by adding one little line to the agreement that would end up stealing money from any repayments and giving it to left-wing political advocacy groups like ACORN, the National Urban League and the Hispanic group La Raza. Instead of trying to help the economy, the Democrats just want more money for their left-wing political constituents. It’s business as usual for the Democrats, of course, but a bigger question is will the media let them get away with it?

On Thursday, the Senate Democrats shopped around a one page “Agreement in Principle” from the U.S. Senate Banking Committee that laid out their proposal for the bailout of the economy. At first it all seems rather straight forward, but hidden inside this document is one little line that proves that Democrats aren’t as interested in the economy as they are in trying to extort a payday for their favorite political advocacy groups. Yes, even in a bill as important as the bailout the Democrats are trying to stuff it with pork!

Of course, the claim that this bailout will make money is not cut and dried. But the idea is that the bailout will put the Treasury Department in ownership of what could easily later become lucrative investments. And, at that later date, the Treasury Dept. can then begin to sell these investments off at a profit and, thence, pay back the Treasury for the bailout — in essence repaying the American people. But, the Democrats already have a plan to spend “profits” that not only do not exist yet, but may never exist. In the “Agreement in Principle” is the following line:

“Directs a certain percentage of future profits to the Affordable Housing Fund and the Capital Magnet Fund to meet America’s housing needs.”

So, the Senate Democrats want to re-direct profits to the “Affordable Housing Fund” and the “Capital Magnet Fund” instead of keeping these future profits going to pay back the American people for this $700 Billion bailout loan. And what are these special agencies the Senate Dems want to fund? We turn to the Wall Street Journal in a July 2008 piece that reports on what sorts of groups that were to be the recipients of the federal pork from earlier bills the Senate tried to pass.

That tax eventually will channel upwards of $600 million annually in grants for developing and restoring housing, mostly as low-income rentals, available to Acorn and other groups (such as the National Council of La Raza and the National Urban League ). Democrats on Capitol Hill and housing groups say the housing-assistance money is vital to helping Americans hit hardest by what some call the largest drop in home values since the Great Depression. But they acknowledge the perception of political conflict in giving federal funds to an organization that does political work. “We are guarding against it,” said Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank in an interview. He secured the Affordable Housing Trust from his seat as chairman of the House Financial Services Committee…

Many may already know that ACORN ( The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) is under investigation in several states for voter fraud. They have been caught turning in hundreds of thousands of fake voter registration cards in an effort to stuff ballot boxes with fake voters and pump up Democrat vote totals. ACORN’s founder also tried to cover up an embezzlement scheme his little brother perpetrated when he stole $1 million dollars of the organization’s money. This has only lately come to light.

Of course, many are also aware of the race oriented Hispanic La Raza group that has been a major player in trying to allow illegal aliens to enter the U.S., vote in our elections, and take freely of schools and social welfare monies.

Naturally, all these organizations exclusively support the Democratic Party.

Lastly, there is one more aspect of this that proves the Democrats are playing politics with this issue instead of being concerned with the saving the economy. The Senate Democrats and Democratic Speaker of the House Pelosi have been pressuring John McCain to sign onto this deal. If he does and this payoff to left-wing groups like the vote fraud infused ACORN or the racemongering La Raza stays in the bill, McCain will be responsible for giving pork to dangerous hardcore, left-wing organizations. If he doesn’t sign onto this because of this pork laden provision, the Democrats can then turn around and say that McCain is a stumbling block in this important bailout bill. The Democrats have, in other words, slipped a poison pill into the plan.

Once again, the Democratic Party proves that it doesn’t care about capitalism, doesn’t care about the economy, doesn’t care about working for the people, but does want to continue slipping huge amounts of cash to their buddies in anti-American groups as well as using important bills to advance mere political partisanship.

So, lets see if the media siezes on this one line in the Senate Democrat’s “Agreement” and reports it for what it is: a cynical, partisan attempt to play politics during one of the most important crises in years.
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #72 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 2:42pm
 
Roger F. Gay

Obama Fails to Solve Financial Crisis
2008-09-26 at 6:27 am · Filed under 2008, Analysis, Conservatism, Current Events, OP/ED, Politics, Vox Populi

Leading up to the break in the presidential campaigns, Barack Obama spoke confidently about his ability to lead the economy; quipping ecclesiastically about the poor leadership of the Bush administration. He had, he claimed, been multi-tasking between the campaign and dealing with the economy by phone with his fellow Democrats. Everybody liked his ideas, his plans, and even John McCain was adopting them. Everything was ok in his view and let’s get on with the campaigning.

The myth fell apart in front of a large assembled crowd of national journalists and cameras yesterday as Democrats and Republicans battled furiously over pork-barrel issues. Democrats were more interested in telling the cameras that they didn’t need John McCain around to solve the problem, but it was clear they were a long way from solving it themselves.
Elizabeth Dole stepped briefly in front of cameras to remind people that she and John McCain had previously proposed regulation that would have averted the crisis.


Barack Obama made his biggest political mistake by not putting country before personal ambition. I am still of the conviction this was a rookie mistake that will end up amplifying his lack of experience and political maturity. He amplified the problem yesterday by being more concerned with political posturing – who gets the blame and the credit – rather than trying to contribute to a solution.

Barack Obama’s name is not as clearly associated with the Democratic Party’s position on addressing the problem. It might be that in the game of political positioning, it’s not a good idea when others are clearly not admiring his skills and knowledge and happily jumping on-board with his proposals. And it might also be because the Barack Obama fingerprints on proposals are starting to lead to something of a CSI investigation – leading back to his associations with shady, untrustworthy political figures and organizations.

Warner Todd Huston reports on the Democratic Party’s attempt to pork-barrel funds returned in the $700 billion bailout proposal, making them available to groups like ACORN, the National Urban League and the Hispanic group La Raza. Chris Adamo opines that Americans should be gravely concerned about Barack Obama’s relationship with the groups as an outgrowth of his experience as a “community organizer.”
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Melissa
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #73 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 3:08pm
 
What I'm a bit peeved about now is that the Dems are trying to push through a 2nd, 60 billion dollar economic stimulus package TODAY while this damn 700 billion bill is trying to be worked out. Angry



btw, Harry Reid chaps my azz.
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« Last Edit: Sep 26th, 2008 at 3:11pm by Melissa »  

Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way.  ~Bernie S. Siegel
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Linda_Howell
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Re: AIG shares $$$
Reply #74 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 3:18pm
 
Quote:
btw, Harry Reid chaps my azz.



  Try a little of Ava's Desitin on that Mel.     LMAO!
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Hurt people.....hurt people.   Think about it.
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