Did you know that Obama has a braclet?......What a putz.....LMAO! 

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No offense, but I highly doubt you have less than $0 (which is the disposable income of the lower %10 of the country).  Now, I understand making a lot more money yet having a ton more in bills to pay but that comment seems rather absurd.  The top %15 of the country makes over 100K while the bottom 20% makes under 25K.  If you are making top %5 money and dont have any disposable income..... that is scary. 

Now, with that said. I expect my personal taxes will go up under an Obama administration and i couldn't care less.  If I seriously am upset about paying more taxes, I probably should vote Democrat since Bush has forced the issue. 

Ok, with that said, I didn't see the debate but a good friend and big Mccain supporter told me he thought they both came off poorly and made me glad I missed it.  Here in Missouri, we vote for Governor and Lt governor separately.  if we did that for pres and VP, Id probably vote McCain/Biden since Obama and Palin both are way too green for my taste.

I hope the next debates are as cordial as this one but maybe with more substance.  maybe sometime we will get a decent candidate for Pres who isnt 800 or 18 years old.

I suppose I could just be a good comrade, and take a low paying job outside of my field and move to Alabama.  Only BAD people want to live where the good jobs are.

FramCire,

I appreciate your post, but I'm afraid I have to agree with Fubar on this.  I have pulled boats in and out of Tracker Marine there in Bolivar, and you live in a great town.  The people are very friendly, the atmosphere is pleasant, and I could realy enjoy living there.  However, your cost of living in Bolivar is proportionally much less than it is in LA or San Diego, Chicago or New York, or many of our other metropolitan areas.  Your fuel prices are MUCH lower than in CA.  Your property taxes are miniscule by comparison.  Your taxes are significantly lower.  Your property values are absurd by comparison. 

When I moved from SC to IL 18 yrs ago I doubled my income, but after six months living up here I calculated that I had actually had a 25% cut in disposable income.  that was without increasing my lifestyle.  In fact I moved from an almost new ranch house with land to a hundred year old two story with less sq footage and less than half the land.  The difference from the Chicago are where I live to LA or San Diego is even greater than from SC to IL.

Unfortunately, I don't fit into the upper 5% of the income.  In fact, I have gotten the earned income credit on my taxes for the last several years, but I recognize the impact a tax increase would have on our economy.  The purpose of the tax increases proposed by Obama is not to increase funds to the Federal Government.  Every time taxes have been decreased in the last 50 yrs it has resulted in a net GAIN in income to the US Treasury, and each increase has had a net loss.  Check it out.

Jerry

Framcire,

Where did I say I had the same disposable income as the BOTTOM 20%?  I said 95%... Talk about spin.  You pulled the 20% out of thin air.

This is not about a policy that addresses the bottom 20%.  This is about Obama saying he is going to give 95% of America a tax cut.  I said, my disposable income is no higher than that 95%, I did not compare myself to the bottom 20%.

Once AGAIN... people like me are made out to be heartless, greedy rich bastards because we make more money, but my point is we have the same lifestyle as everybody else. His tax code makes no allowance for that.  You can pull out the bottom 20% if you want, but the fact is the bottom 20% pay almost NOTHING in taxes anyway.  What is your point?

Oh yeah, the good news I can 'write off' $3,000 of my losses each year until I'm about 3 million years old.

My point was, there are [plenty of people in that bottom 95% (the poor folks, according to Obama) that probably have it much better than I do just because they made better choices about what kind of work to get into and where to live.  Why the hell should I be arbitrarily penalized on one factor (my income) without any regard to my cost of living which is much, much higher than other places?

You say you understand economics... do you?

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Outside of your last line where you inexplicably question me again for NO REASOn, this makes more sense.  Had you just said that you feel that taxing you more without taking your cost of living into consideration makes no sense... I would have agreed with you. 

You kept saying that your lifestyle was THE SAME AS the bottom 95%.   Disposable income, quality of life, personal safety...... are all areas that your income affords you a much better lifestyle than a large percentage of Americans.  this is why I took exception to your comment.  I never called you greedy.  I don't like Obama's tax plan any more than you do, but your comment made you look out of touch with the reality that the lower %20 (which is part of the 95% you put yourself in the same boat as) lives with.  I am int he top 20% in household income as well (not top 5) but both my wife and I work with a lot of people who are in the bottom 20% and trust me your lifestyle is nothing like theirs.

With that said, the more people look at Obama, the more they will realize that his economic plan makes no sense.  Yes, Bush has done a horrible job and McCain is not strong on the economy, but I can't feel good about Obama either.

Just a bit of 'income" information. and who these elite work with/for.

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My problem with this is that for some CEO's the % amount of their bonus increases over time equal the the amount that the price of their shares of stock fall over the same amount of time.  Craig Dubow CEO/Pres. of the company I worked for has more than doubled his income from 2007 to 2008 projections, while the stockprice tanked from near 70 a share 5 years ago when he took the position to less than 20 a share today.

his 2007 salary was 2 mil, with a 1.75 mil bonus.  He's now due an 8 Mil salery while the company is tanking and laying off or fireing over 2000 people in less than 3 months because they aren't turning a profit?  With raises like this its....

Simply astounding.

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And this, it appears, is Obama's trump card in these times.  



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For those who feel there has been a distinctive class separation that is trying to maintain the status quo with a lessening of the middle, interpreting Obama's message with a lens of community rather than with a lens of class may appeal more to many.  A greater sense of equality to be balanced against the seemingly present class differences on voting day, and who will be in the majority?  
 In effect, support for Obama with this political consensus, perhaps holding legitimacy for many with recent economic inequalities all over the news, doesn't always equate with support for his policies.  But the means seems less important than the depiction created, with a bit of socialistic blending, "first to politics, then the features" has captured a good piece of young.

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Soldier's Family Told Obama Not to Wear Son's Bracelet

Barack Obama played the "me too" game during the Friday debates on September 26 after Senator John McCain mentioned that he was wearing a bracelet with the name of Cpl. Matthew Stanley, a resident of New Hampshire and a soldier that lost his life in Iraq in 2006. Obama said that he too had a bracelet. After fumbling and straining to remember the name, he revealed that his had the name of Sergeant Ryan David Jopek of Merrill, Wisconsin.

Shockingly, however, Madison resident Brian Jopek, the father of Ryan Jopek, the young soldier who tragically lost his life to a roadside bomb in 2006, recently said on a Wisconsin Public Radio show that his family had asked Barack Obama to stop wearing the bracelet with his son's name on it. Yet Obama continues to do so despite the wishes of the family.

Radio host Glenn Moberg of the show "Route 51" asked Mr. Jopek, a man who believes in the efforts in Iraq and is not in favor of Obama's positions on the war, what he and his ex-wife think of Obama continually using their son's name on the campaign trail.

Jopek began by saying that his ex-wife was taken aback, even upset, that Obama has made the death of her son a campaign issue. Jopek says his wife gave Obama the bracelet because "she just wanted Mr. Obama to know Ryan's name." Jopek went on to say that "she wasn't looking to turn it into a big media event" and "just wanted it to be something between Barack Obama and herself." Apparently, they were all shocked it became such a big deal.

But, he also said that his ex-wife has refused further interviews on the matter and that she wanted Obama to stop wearing the reminder of her son's sacrifice that he keeps turning into a campaign soundbyte. This begins at about 10 minutes into the radio program.

How fucking pathetic is that?

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WSOP?

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I haven't gone out of my way to insult anybody.  That was pretty insulting.  I'll resist telling you where to stuff your attitude.  Your ignorance about my situation is making YOU look like as A$$.