Click this link to read a post I like on the clusterheadaches.com message board...

Charlie

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Happy to be here

Posts: 18971
Jamestown, NY
Gender: male

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #25 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 11:04am

I'm not a Letterman watcher unless he has someone interesting like McCain as a guest. I guess you know McCain was a no-show on his show a couple weeks ago and Letterman went nuts for several days. Anyway McCain was invited back and I'm surprised he didn't hit Letterman. Letterman torn into him good, especially about Palin. It was painful. While I agree with him on Palin and most of his politics, it was something better left to a debate. Of course moderators are forbidden to ask real questions.

I doubt McCain will return in his lifetime. I suppose this thing is on Youtube or whatever its called.

OUCH

Charlie

Back to top

There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill

IP Logged

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #26 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 11:21am Hey Charlie, did you watch the Alfred E. Smith Charity event last night? Too funny!
Back to top	Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #27 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 11:39am Saw it. Nice to see the candidates being regular people.
Back to top	Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!" IP Logged

BarbaraD CH.com Alumnus Offline Hugs to ya Posts: 8333 Douglasville, TX Gender:	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #28 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 12:02pm That Al Smith thing was the funniest thing I've seen since this political season started. Now if they'd just campaign like that.... I woke up this morning still laughing at BOTH of them. Think I'd vote for both of them if they'd be like that all the time.... Hugs BD
Back to top	What don't kill ya, Makes ya stronger! IP Logged

fubar

Ex Member

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #29 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 12:18pm

Audre wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:56am:

I think you're really blowing this out of proportion, Fubar.

That's me, chicken little.

Audre wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:56am:

From the Tax Policy Center:
"few small business owners face the highest marginal income tax rates. Less than 9 percent of returns with small business income are in tax brackets of 28 percent and above, less than 3 percent face rates of 33 percent and above, and only 1.3 percent are in the top bracket. Roughly 97 percent of small businesses would not be affected at all by increases in the top two
tax rates. More than two-thirds of all returns with small business income are in the 15 percent or lower tax bracket, and 88 percent face rates of 25 percent or
below."

Once again... this is NOT about the 97% who wouldn't be affected. It's about the 100% who will be affected. 100% of the businesses that do have their taxes raised will pass on 100% of that cost to 100% of us in the form of higher prices or lower wages and benefits. It cannot be any other way. This is the simple truth.

Audre wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:56am:

Small business actually create 2/3 net new jobs.

The ones who will get higher taxes are the ones who are creating (not in theory, in truth) ALL of our new net jobs. It's a fact.

Audre wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:56am:

I highly doubt that increasing a business' tax rate by 3% is going to break them so much that they're going to fire their employees.

And there it is... the foundation of the push for socialism. Idiocracy at it's finest.

Audre wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:56am:

You mention corporations getting taxed and raising prices for consumers. If we leave taxes as they are (a lot are paying 0% right now) or give more tax breaks to them, they're not going to lower their prices for the consumer. The prices are going to stay the same so they can make more profit.

That is just not true, and not supported by any facts. The facts tell a different story. Raise the taxes, reduce the revenue and jobs. That's how it works. You can't make it work any different by wishing it so, or hoping it so. This is how it works.

Audre wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:56am:

I see a lot of people always attacking Obama, his supporters and his ideas. While I may not like Obama or all of his ideas, not all of them are horrible.

All of his ideas are horrible. That is an opinion. His economic policy is horrible. That's a fact.

Back to top

IP Logged

BarbaraD CH.com Alumnus Offline Hugs to ya Posts: 8333 Douglasville, TX Gender:	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #30 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 12:27pm I thought this was interesting.... We might want to throw out all the tax laws and start here.... (again) Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Hugs BD
Back to top	What don't kill ya, Makes ya stronger! IP Logged

monty

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #31 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:37pm

Quote:

...

And there it is... the foundation of the push for socialism. Idiocracy at it's finest.

...

All of his ideas are horrible. That is an opinion. His economic policy is horrible. That's a fact.

Or it's Hyperbole and opinion.

Obama's plan reduces the total amount of taxes the government collects, McCain's reduces it a bit more. If we didn't have a huge deficit and the economy was in great shape, McCain's plan might make sense.

Returning tax rates to more like they were like 10 years ago (or under President Eisenhower) is not socialism. It is simply reversing the Bush tax cuts, which moved a big slice of the tax burden off of the wealthy and on to working and middle class people and future generations.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:42pm by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

IP Logged

fubar Ex Member	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #32 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:42pm Right Monty, Obama's plan reduces the amount the government collects... can I get some of what your smoking? Oh wait, I forgot, Obama said HE'S going to pay for all the new programs. How could I forget that?
Back to top	IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

monty

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #33 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 2:17pm

The debt is a real concern with both candidates plans. There is no doubt that no matter who is elected, they are going to have to scale back either tax cuts and/or spending, or increase the debt.

Quote:

Both candidates have promised to balance their tax relief programs with budget cuts designed to trim soaring deficits. But the Tax Policy Center has warned that both plans -- coupled with the candidates' high-cost healthcare proposals -- would balloon the $9.6-trillion national debt. The center's analysis reported that McCain's tax proposals would add $5 trillion to the debt over the next 10 years, while Obama's would add $3.6 trillion.

Back to top

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

IP Logged

Jonny

Ex Member

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #34 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 4:47pm

Moreover, the tax credits would mostly go to those who pay little or nothing in federal income taxes. His trick is to make the tax credits "refundable." Thus, if the tax credit is for $1,000, but the taxpayer would otherwise only pay $200 in taxes, the government would write a check to the taxpayer for $800. If the taxpayer pays nothing in federal income taxes, the government would pay him the whole $1,000.

Such credits are not tax cuts. Indeed, they should be called The New Tax Welfare. In effect, Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand a slew of government spending programs that are disguised as tax credits. The spending on these programs is then subtracted from the total tax burden, in order to make the claim that his tax plan is a net tax cut overall.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Back to top

IP Logged

fubar

Ex Member

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #35 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 4:59pm

Jonny, it's OK, Obama said he already paid for all these programs.

Just like he's going to pay for all our new medical insurance by eliminating paperwork. MAGIC!

More amazing than his magical programs is the level to which a large number of Americans are falling for this crap. They think they're voting for taxes 'on the rich', like they are Robin Hood. This plan will hurt those people the most.

It is foolish to think that taxes on business (any business) do not simply just cost us all more. Tax on business is tax on us, period. Tax the 'rich' and the poor will end up footing the bill or feeling the pain much more than the 'rich'.

It's all a little too much math for Joe Six-Pack. Far easier to feel good about sticking it to da man.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:00pm by N/A »

IP Logged

Jonny Ex Member	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #36 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:05pm Quote: Robin Hood. It would have been great when Obama said "spread the wealth" if Joe yelled ............."Dont tax me, bro!"....LMAO Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
Back to top	« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:06pm by N/A » IP Logged

BMoneeTheMoneeMan

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

In remembrance of KingCazman.
RIP

Posts: 2674
Portland, OR

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #37 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:15pm

Quote:

That is just not true, and not supported by any facts. The facts tell a different story. Raise the taxes, reduce the revenue and jobs. That's how it works. You can't make it work any different by wishing it so, or hoping it so. This is how it works.

Not quite so, Shawn. How would you explain the 22 million jobs between 92 and 2000? Taxes were higher back then and borrowing was much lower.
When Bush Jr cut the taxes, it took several years to get the same revenue back. After taxes have been cut, job growth over the last 8 years has been downright shitty.
Back in the 90s, jobs were high, income per family was high, taxes were high and tax revenue was high. According to you, this is an impossibility.....but it happened.

Back to top

"Fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool - can't get fooled again"&&&&&&Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half the population is stupider than that.&&&&

IP Logged

monty

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #38 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:16pm

Quote:

... can I get some of what your smoking?

I sent all mine to the Chicago Tribune - you know, that newspaper that has never endorsed a Democrat for President until this year. The one that said they were impressed by Obama's centrism, while they are disappointed with McCain's campaign.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

That was after I sent some to conservative icon Christopher Buckley, who is also endorsing Obama. And some to all the other fine Republicans at Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

.

Out of kindness, I was going to send some to the people at democratsformccain.com, but that site is run by a registered Republican, and doesn't seem to actually identify any Democrats who are for McCain!

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:22pm by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

IP Logged

Bob P

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Shut up Bob!

Posts: 4573
Clio,California
Gender: male

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #39 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:24pm

From CNN
Quote:

Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama's health care plan, as outlined on his campaign Web site, says an Obama administration "will require that all children have health care coverage." The site refers to coverage for children as a "mandate." The plan says parents will be assisted in signing up their children for coverage either through private insurers, government programs such as Medicaid or the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) or unspecified "options established by the Obama plan."

Beyond raising the possibility that parents may have to prove health care coverage before children can be enrolled in daycare or school, the Web site does not address fines or any other penalties for parents who do not obtain health care coverage for their children.

Obama was quoted last year during the Democratic primary campaign as saying he would fine parents if they did not enroll their children.

According to the Des Moines (Iowa) Register, Obama told reporters in November 2007: "If they don't have health care, we will work with the parents to make sure that it's provided, and it would be mandatory. Parents will not have an option. And I would fine parents if for some reason they refused." He did not specify the amount of any fine.

It will be interesting to see what they do when they force those who don't believe in medicine for religious reasons to sign their kids up in health care.

We're all coming under the protective umbrella of the government. Why doesn't that give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:26pm by Bob P »

Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!"

IP Logged

fubar Ex Member	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #40 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:46pm I give up.
Back to top	IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

BMoneeTheMoneeMan CH.com Alumnus Offline In remembrance of KingCazman. RIP Posts: 2674 Portland, OR	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #41 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 5:47pm Huh?
Back to top	"Fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool - can't get fooled again"&&&&&&Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half the population is stupider than that.&&&& IP Logged

Jonny Ex Member	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #42 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 6:01pm LMMFAO! Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
Back to top	IP Logged

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #43 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 6:50pm B$, but what about the way the economy is right now? Back in the 90's we weren't fighting 2 wars and we didn't know about the housing bubble that was building. Would that have contributed to how the times were back then?
Back to top	Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Jonny

Ex Member

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #44 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 7:01pm

deltadarlin wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 9:34am:

He might want to pay his backtaxes before he tries to buy a business.

Thats probably like Obama being called out to pay his hundreds of dollars worth of parking tickets that he got in Somerville, Mass when he was going to school here.......20years ago?

He only paid them because he was called on them when he started running.....Bet ya didnt hear that in the media, did ya? Roll Eyes

Joe aint running for president, is he? Roll Eyes

Back to top

IP Logged

BMoneeTheMoneeMan

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

In remembrance of KingCazman.
RIP

Posts: 2674
Portland, OR

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #45 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 7:24pm

Melissa wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 6:50pm:

B$, but what about the way the economy is right now? Back in the 90's we weren't fighting 2 wars and we didn't know about the housing bubble that was building. Would that have contributed to how the times were back then?

Well, the wars both have cost, what, 500bil? Thats only about 10% of what we have borrowed in the last 8 years.
We most certainly did know of the housing bubble. Personally, I thought the people who took 100% mortgages on McMansions on adjustable loans we going to learn a basic lesson. Had I known the government was going to step in and forbid the bank to forclose on my home, I would have gotten a McMansion too. But, I was thinking behind this veil of personal responsibility and got this house built in 1947 on a busy street.

I do think that the banking regulation changes of the 90s led directly to this. I made a shitload of money in the market in the 90s in regional banks as the regulations changed and allowed investment banks and commercial banks to merge. There was a LOT of consolidation in banking in the 90s as large banks bought smaller banks.
The reason why commercial (deposit) banks and investment banks were separated in the first place (Securities Act of 1929?) is because the banks invested or loaned out their money on deposit and then when people wanted their money, the banks folded. This was a great contributor of the depression. The banks had no money.
So in the 90s we changed the rules, and now we have the worst financial crises in 80 years or more.

Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.
B$

Back to top

"Fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool - can't get fooled again"&&&&&&Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half the population is stupider than that.&&&&

IP Logged

Jonny

Ex Member

Re: Joe the Plumber
Reply #46 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 7:38pm

BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 7:24pm:

Melissa wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 6:50pm:

B$, but what about the way the economy is right now? Back in the 90's we weren't fighting 2 wars and we didn't know about the housing bubble that was building. Would that have contributed to how the times were back then?

I would have gotten a McMansion too. But, I was thinking behind this veil of personal responsibility and got this house built in 1947 on a busy street.

Ditto.....1950 on a main road, I have always lived by how much I can afford and never more!

There are not many of us left, B$......most folks nowa days feel they are owed what they didnt work for!

Back to top

IP Logged

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #47 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 7:42pm BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 7:24pm: We most certainly did know of the housing bubble. Sorry, I realized it after I posted that I worded it incorrectly. Should have said "the public". Thanks for answering.
Back to top	Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #48 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 8:31pm Oooooooooo, I gots another brain fart! Now, wouldn't taxing the people who net $250,000 and up squelch peoples wanting to make that much money? It's almost like being forced to stay in a certain income bracket. Is that fair??
Back to top	Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: Joe the Plumber Reply #49 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 8:49pm No Mel. No one is going to try to make less unless they are insane. I'd love to have to pay taxes on half a million a year. Charlie
Back to top	There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
	Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!