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Obama Lawsuit (Read 6042 times)
Kirk
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #25 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 4:10am
 
  OK since his birth certificate shows that his father is a Muslim, By Muslim law that makes him a Muslim. Doesn't matter that he is now a Buddhist. Under Muslim law, and custom that makes him an apostate. Which means if he becomes a head of state, he must be killed. His representatives can not be dealt with. Or be given any standing, in any negotiations. Of any kind. This is the law in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Afganistan, Syria, etc. As well as the Hamas and other organizations. If you think raising up an apostate to the level of head of state of the great Satan, is not going to put a serious burr under the hair shirt of the Mullahs in the Muslim countries. You haven't been paying attention. These are the same clowns that make suicide bombings an art form. That flew planes into two of our tallest buildings in New York. And think that burning and then hanging American civilians from bridges is great fun.
  The fact that Mr. Obama is pulling one of the biggest snow jobs on the American public in history to get himself elected is almost beside the point compared to that.
  If the man had any sense of decency, he would have bowed out of the campaign long ago. He spent his formative years in a Muslim country. He knows how they think. He didn't go to American schools until later in his childhood.
   You just can't trust politicians.

Smiley
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #26 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 6:26am
 
Being head of state has nothing to do with it, he'd be an apostate and "must be killed", president or not.  His representatives have nothing to do with him in that regard either.  Apostate killings actually aren't practiced much any more, especially ones in other countries.

"Obama’s conversion to another faith, in short, makes him a murtadd.

That said, the punishment for childhood apostasy is less severe than for the adult version. As Robert Spencer points out, “according to Islamic law an apostate male is not to be put to death if he has not reached puberty (cf. ‘Umdat al-Salik o8.2; Hidayah vol. II p. 246). Some, however, hold that he should be imprisoned until he is of age and then ‘invited’ to accept Islam, but officially the death penalty for youthful apostates is ruled out.”

On the positive side, were Obama prominently charged with apostasy, that would uniquely raise the issue of a Muslim’s right to change religion, taking a topic on the perpetual back-burner and placing it front and center, perhaps to the great future benefit of those Muslims who seek to declare themselves atheists or to convert to another religion.

But would Muslims seeing Obama as a murtadd significantly affect an Obama presidency? The only precedent to judge by is that of Carlos Saúl Menem, the president of Argentina from 1989 to 1999. The son of two Muslim Syrian immigrants and husband of another Syrian-Argentine, Zulema Fátima Yoma, Menem converted to Roman Catholicism. His wife said publicly that Menem left Islam for political reasons—because Argentinean law until 1994 required the president of the country to be a member of the Church. From a Muslim point of view, NYT 8 Jan 89Menem’s conversion is worse than Obama’s, having been done as an adult. Nonetheless, Menem was not threatened or otherwise made to pay a price for his change of religion, even during his trips to majority-Muslim countries, Syria in particular.

It is one thing to be president of Argentina in the 1990s, however, and another to be president of the United States in 2009. One must assume that some Islamists would renounce him as a murtadd and would try to execute him. Given the protective bubble surrounding an American president, though, this threat presumably would not make much difference to his carrying out his duties."

"So is Obama under a death sentence? Probably not. As far as I know Obama has never explained when he left Islam and became a Christian. This is a crucial point, for according to Islamic law an apostate male is not to be put to death if he has not reached puberty (cf. 'Umdat al-Salik o8.2; Hidayah vol. II p. 246). Some, however, hold that he should be imprisoned until he is of age and then "invited" to accept Islam, but officially the death penalty for youthful apostates is ruled out.

There are several ways this could go with Obama. Fjordman writes, "This is a golden opportunity for American anti-Jihadis to expose the intolerance inherent to Islamic teachings. And it is even better that it is a man from the black community and the political Left, where Muslims find many of their sympathizers."

That is true -- it is an opportunity to call attention to this aspect of Islam that so many are so eager to cover up. However, I think that Obama's candidacy and religious history are more likely to work to the advantage of the Left and the jihadists, even if he flames out a la Howard Dean in 2004. For if the Islamic death penalty for apostasy is even allowed to come up in the mainstream media, smiling Islamic spokesmen will deny that Islam teaches this. They can even be honest and simply affirm that it doesn't apply to Obama at all, since he left Islam while still very young.

I believe it is most likely that the media and Obama's campaign will ignore the apostasy law altogether, and tar anyone who brings it up as a "bigot." The propagandists of CAIR, MPAC et al are quite savvy at portraying themselves as victims in response to presentations of uncomfortable aspects of Islam. And it is virtually inconceivable that there will be protests in the Islamic world over his apostasy, calls for his execution, etc. Remember that the Cartoon Rage and Pope Rage riots were orchestrated from above. The people who orchestrated them know enough not to shoot themselves in the foot. They (as well as Obama's campaign) have a chance here to portray Obama as someone who was raised as a Muslim and thus has a keen understanding of the Islamic world and the Islamic mind -- rather like the positioning of Bill Clinton as our "first black President." Given Obama's politics, it will not be hard to present him internationally as someone who understands Islam and Muslims, and thus will be able to smooth over the hostility between the Islamic world and the West. Muslim leaders worldwide will not be saying, "He was raised a Muslim. Isn't that terrible?" Rather, I suspect that both Obama's campaign and Muslim leaders worldwide will say, "He was raised a Muslim. Isn't that wonderful? At last, someone who can see our point of view.""

"These same clowns that make suicide bombings an art form" are only a small radical part of it, just like there are radicals in any group or religion.  To portray every Muslim as a suicide bomber is ignorant.
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Bob P
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #27 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 7:09am
 
Quote:
"The jury is still out on evolution."

I believe God has done a fine job of directing the evolution of species.
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #28 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 7:54am
 
Bob P wrote on Oct 29th, 2008 at 7:09am:
Quote:
"The jury is still out on evolution."

I believe God has done a fine job of directing the evolution of species.


Man then seems to have somehow acquired a skill of God, through observing the mechanism of natural selection, directing the evolution of plants, fruitflies, bacteria, etc., if that is a skill of God rather than done by a process of natural selection.  Hard to believe.
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Bob P
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #29 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 8:30am
 
Quote:
Man then seems to have somehow acquired a skill of God, through observing the mechanism of natural selection, directing the evolution of plants, fruitflies, bacteria, etc., if that is a skill of God rather than done by a process of natural selection.  Hard to believe.

Created in His image.

God has given us lots of talents.
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #30 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 8:56am
 
Bob P wrote on Oct 29th, 2008 at 8:30am:
God has given us lots of talents.


Of that appears the ability to see what does not require his hand.
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #31 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 9:00am
 
It probably won't make much difference in this free-range thread, but getting back to the original point, Berg's lawsuit was dismissed by a federal judge in Philadelphia:

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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #32 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 10:34am
 
The court found the allegations were "ridiculous" and "patently false" but you are right - that probably won't change anything for the people that think that Obama is a non-citizen marxist islamic terrorist loving sleeper cell agent or possibly the antichrist.  Doesn't matter for Joe the Plumber, who is now preaching that a vote for Obama is a vote for the destruction of Israel ... 3/4 of the Jewish citizens in this country support Obama, but Joe has found secret conspiracy evidence that he can't reveal (but which is available on the internet if people would only go look for it) ... innuendo, smears and hyperbole are all the right wing has left. It won't work, but it will help the Republican party self-destruct.
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« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2008 at 10:36am by monty »  

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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #33 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 11:04am
 
Quote:
The Los Angeles Times is refusing to release a videotape that it says shows Barack Obama praising a Chicago professor who was an alleged mouthpiece for the Palestine Liberation Organization while it was a designated terrorist group in the 1970s and '80s.

According an LA Times article written by Peter Wallsten in April, Obama was a "friend and frequent dinner companion" of Rashid Khalidi, who from 1976 to1982 was reportedly a director of the official Palestinian press agency, WAFA, which was operating in exile from Beirut with the PLO.

In the article -- based on the videotape obtained by the Times -- Wallsten said Obama addressed an audience during a 2003 farewell dinner for Khalidi, who was Obama's colleague at the University of Chicago, before his departure for Columbia University in New York. Obama said his many talks with Khalidi and his wife Mona stood as "consistent reminders to me of my own blind spots and my own biases."
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #34 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 11:10am
 
monty wrote on Oct 29th, 2008 at 10:34am:
The court found the allegations were "ridiculous" and "patently false" but you are right - that probably won't change anything for the people that think that Obama is a non-citizen marxist islamic terrorist loving sleeper cell agent or possibly the antichrist.  Doesn't matter for Joe the Plumber, who is now preaching that a vote for Obama is a vote for the destruction of Israel ... 3/4 of the Jewish citizens in this country support Obama, but Joe has found secret conspiracy evidence that he can't reveal (but which is available on the internet if people would only go look for it) ... innuendo, smears and hyperbole are all the right wing has left. It won't work, but it will help the Republican party self-destruct.


The court did not say that.  The DNC and Obama said that.

" Obama and the Democratic National Committee had asked Surrick to dismiss Berg's complaint in a court filing on Sept. 24.

They said that Berg's claims were "ridiculous" and "patently false," that Berg had "no standing" to challenge the qualifications of a candidate for president because he had not shown the requisite harm to himself."

The court said this:

"Surrick agreed.

In a 34-page memorandum and opinion, the judge said Berg's allegations of harm were "too vague and too attenuated" to confer standing on him or any other voters"




So basically, instead of forcing Obama's lawyers to prove their documents were authentic, the judge threw it out saying Berg had not proved injury to himself or others.  I believe this ruling to be the correct one, but nowhere does the court find that his claim that Obama was born outside the US is incorrect.  The judge didn't believe he had grounds to file the suit. 



3/4 of Jewish people support Obama (Gallop has it at 74%) yet the vast majority of absentee ballots from Israel have come in for McCain (as reported on my local news).   Isn't that interesting.  I guess our military and others in Israel support McCain.

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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #35 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 11:14am
 
While realizing I'm only a wimminz, I do have a MRI proving that I have a brain and I think that if this video really DID exist it would be plastered all over 24/7 TV coverage by now.
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #36 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 11:26am
 
Bob P wrote on Oct 29th, 2008 at 11:04am:
Quote:
The Los Angeles Times is refusing to release a videotape that it says shows Barack Obama praising a Chicago professor who was an alleged mouthpiece for the Palestine Liberation Organization while it was a designated terrorist group in the 1970s and '80s.

According an LA Times article written by Peter Wallsten in April, Obama was a "friend and frequent dinner companion" of Rashid Khalidi, who from 1976 to1982 was reportedly a director of the official Palestinian press agency, WAFA, which was operating in exile from Beirut with the PLO.

In the article -- based on the videotape obtained by the Times -- Wallsten said Obama addressed an audience during a 2003 farewell dinner for Khalidi, who was Obama's colleague at the University of Chicago, before his departure for Columbia University in New York. Obama said his many talks with Khalidi and his wife Mona stood as "consistent reminders to me of my own blind spots and my own biases."


Probably a non-starter. 

This from the Huffington Post (yeah, yeah...I know--consider the source).

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Hasn't hit the MSM yet, but no doubt it will if the McCain campaign decides to push this one.  Which I doubt.

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George
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #37 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 4:16pm
 
Bob P wrote on Oct 29th, 2008 at 11:04am:
Quote:
The Los Angeles Times is refusing to release a videotape that it says shows Barack Obama praising a Chicago professor who was an alleged mouthpiece for the Palestine Liberation Organization while it was a designated terrorist group in the 1970s and '80s.

According an LA Times article written by Peter Wallsten in April, Obama was a "friend and frequent dinner companion" of Rashid Khalidi, who from 1976 to1982 was reportedly a director of the official Palestinian press agency, WAFA, which was operating in exile from Beirut with the PLO.

In the article -- based on the videotape obtained by the Times -- Wallsten said Obama addressed an audience during a 2003 farewell dinner for Khalidi, who was Obama's colleague at the University of Chicago, before his departure for Columbia University in New York. Obama said his many talks with Khalidi and his wife Mona stood as "consistent reminders to me of my own blind spots and my own biases."


Just a side note....William Ayres was also at that dinner!  Wink
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #38 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 9:32am
 
Quote:
According an LA Times article written by Peter Wallsten in April, Obama was a "friend and frequent dinner companion" of Rashid Khalidi, who from 1976 to1982 was reportedly a director of the official Palestinian press agency, WAFA, which was operating in exile from Beirut with the PLO.


Was that the same Rashid Khalidi that McCain's group gave half a million dollars to?

Quote:
During the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars.

A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank. (See grant number 5180, "West Bank: CPRS" on page 14 of this PDF.)

The relationship extends back as far as 1993, when John McCain joined IRI as chairman in January. Foreign Affairs noted in September of that year that IRI had helped fund several extensive studies in Palestine run by Khalidi's group, including over 30 public opinion polls and a study of "sociopolitical attitudes."


Oops .. the Rashid Khalidi boogey man they are trying to create got far more love from McCain than Obama.  

Team McCain. Dishonest. Dishonorable.

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« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2008 at 9:34am by monty »  

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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #39 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 9:55am
 
monty wrote on Oct 30th, 2008 at 9:32am:
Team McCain. Dishonest. Dishonorable.


If you can call McCain dishonorable than I can call Obama a closet Muslim extremist!

Monty is so left leaning that he is swimming in the Pacific Ocean with a pack of kool aid.

Obama’s foreign policy will be likened to all his covert meetings with terrorists and crooks in Chicago. He will be uttering God dam America when he comes out of his socialist closet.

Rolo.. Tongue
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #40 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 9:57am
 
Quote:
Oops .. the Rashid Khalidi boogey man they are trying to create got far more love from McCain than Obama.  

Team McCain. Dishonest. Dishonorable.


Quoting the Huffington Post is worse than quoting Faux News.

The IRI was trying to help resolve the Palestinian conflict with the grant.  Obama was just adding another terrorist buddy to his already large stable of the same.

Quote:
IRI Statement Regarding Work with Palestinians

For Immediate Release
October 29, 2008


Washington, DC – “Questions have arisen regarding the International Republican Institute’s (IRI) work with Palestinians in the 1990s.

“In the 1990s, IRI gave grants to the Center for Palestinian Research and Studies (CPRS) for polling in the West Bank/Gaza. The polls measured support for the peace process, for various Palestinian political groups, and for efforts to enhance governance in the West Bank/Gaza. At that time no other organization could credibly conduct polling in the West Bank/Gaza.

“We understand that Rashid Khalidi was one of the many founders of CPRS, and we understand that he was for some (unclear) amount of time a board member. IRI did not in the 1990s conduct background checks of grantees’ founders or board members. IRI did on a number of occasions vet CPRS as an organization, including, as was our custom, with the Israeli government, and we were given no cause for concern.

“We do not recall any contact between Mr. Khalidi and IRI, and there is no evidence that Mr. Khalidi benefited in any way from IRI's grants.

“Other organizations that reportedly gave funding to CPRS include the National Endowment for Democracy, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s Center for International Private Enterprise, the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations, the Japanese Embassy, and Germany’s Friedrich Naumann Stiftung.

“IRI’s relationship with CPRS ended in 2000, and we understand that it no longer exists.”

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« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2008 at 10:09am by Bob P »  

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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #41 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 10:28am
 
For an Israeli perspective (and I'm pretty sure the Israelis are watching this with some interest) on the Khalidi kerfluffle, please consider this article in the right-leaning Jerusalem Post.  In general, the Jerusalem post is distinctly cool on Obama, but I thought that its treatment of the subject was remarkably even-handed.

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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #42 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 1:06pm
 
Ok, I've got a question here (and this may be a little off topic, but...). And I'm not trying to stir up anything - I just want something explained to me that I've never understood long before now.

I know we've got a lot of Jewish Americans here, but WHY is our country so Pro-Israel? I've studied some Jewish history (not a whole lot but some) and Israel has been around for thousands of years and has always survived whatever's been thrown at them and they've always been surrounded by Arabs. Their country is one of the most organized ones in the mid-east - bar none. they should be giving US lessons.  But I've just never understood why we think we have to defend them in everything. And I'm not pro or anti anything except curious.

I personally don't think we'll ever see peace in the middle east in our lifetime (it hasn't happened in the last 2000 years), so why in the world are we so worried about it? And I'm not talking about 9-11 (yes I think we should find Bin Laudin and hang that sob and all his friends), but to condem every person of Arab descent for this is just not right either.

Please don't come back with terrorists being a threat or stuff like that - I just want an answer to a question that I can't figure out for myself. I'm sure there's a reason - I just don't know it.

Hugs BD
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #43 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 1:27pm
 
Democracy
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #44 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 6:46pm
 
Quote:
While realizing I'm only a wimminz, I do have a MRI proving that I have a brain and I think that if this video really DID exist it would be plastered all over 24/7 TV coverage by now.


Oh it exists and the Los Angeles Times has refused to release it although if it were a real blockbuster, McCain and especially, Barbie, would blast it all over the place every ten minutes.

Once again, give the RNC some credit.

Charlie
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #45 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 7:01pm
 
Charlie wrote on Oct 30th, 2008 at 6:46pm:
Oh it exists and the Los Angeles Times has refused to release it although if it were a real blockbuster, McCain and especially, Barbie, would blast it all over the place every ten minutes.


Its to bad you cant see video Charlie (like Fubar said) or I would put up at least five videos of McCain and Barbie blasting them for not releasing it!

Like Shawn said, you know only half of the story when you cant see it all!  Wink
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #46 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 7:45pm
 
Yeah but that it isn't being used by McCain in ads.

Get serious. The RNC isn't comprised of wimps and McCain would be rattling it all over the place at every rally....if the RNC thought it useful. Too much at stake here.

Charlie
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« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2008 at 7:46pm by Charlie »  

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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #47 - Oct 30th, 2008 at 7:52pm
 
Charlie wrote on Oct 30th, 2008 at 7:45pm:
Yeah but that it isn't being used by McCain in ads.

Get serious. The RNC isn't comprised of wimps and McCain would be rattling it all over the place at every rally....if the RNC thought it useful. Too much at stake here.

Charlie


Like I said, you cant see video so I wont waste my time posting them. Kiss
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #48 - Oct 31st, 2008 at 4:39pm
 
You selfish bastards!

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I guess these guys know who skratches their back:

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« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2008 at 4:41pm by Bob P »  

Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.  "SHUT UP HUB!"
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Re: Obama Lawsuit
Reply #49 - Oct 31st, 2008 at 5:46pm
 
Quote:
This is the strategy, and it will work.


It worked for Bush!

What AWOL?
What cocaine?
What DUI?
What WMDs?
What Kenith Lay?
What energy policy I campaigned on?

Funny thing is if he would have gotten his way social security would have been privatized and now, with Wall Street in the tank millions of people would be living in the streets. No one is beating THAT drum anymore, but if it would have won out it would have been:
What Social Security?
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