FramCire wrote on Oct 29^th, 2008 at 2:18pm:


Nope.  Time to get rid of the RNC and the DNC.  Do you have any idea how much money those to entities take in every year?  I'm talking about all the way down to the local folks.  How much good could be done with campaign dollars instead of making the media rich?  Huh?  All they do is campaign and attend fund raisers all year, every year in order to increase the size of their coiffers.

The more I learn about both BO And JM the more I'm turning to 3rd party.

I have to vote my conscience.

Agostino Leyre wrote on Oct 29^th, 2008 at 2:43pm:


I don't really think more pain is what we need right now.  A lot of us are in enough pain as is.

As for voting conscience, how does helping obama win by voting 3rd party produce any real results.  Ross Perot taught us that voting en mass for a 3rd party cand doesn't do anything to change the 2 party system.  I respect voting for the Best candidate regardless of chance to win, so dont take this as me saying I dont respect your decision to vote 3rd party.  I just don't like voting for someone who pretty much takes my vote out of my hands.

As for being "programmed" to vote for lesser of two evils..... that's rich.  I have voted many times for the candidate I actually like but in life we have to make choices and sometimes it is the lesser of 2 evils.  I am programmed to vote for the one I think will benefit my country more.  In our last election for US Senate, I didnt vote for either because I thought they were equally likely to be less awful.

Anyway.... this year the best way to vote against our 2 party system is to force them to work together.  Since the Dems will have a filibuster proof Congress...... vote McCain and force them to work together.  Otherwise, the 2 parties will get the idea that it is all about party.

It may be unpopular, but I'm voting on principal also this year.  I'm voting 3rd party.  Both Obama and McCain voted for an unconsitutional bailout therefore neither will be getting my vote.

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A vote for a third party, while noble, is clearly a vote for Obama.  It is sad, but true.  So, if you can live with helping Obama into office as our supreme commander and Messiah, have at it.

I'm usually not on the receiving end of fear mongering and I must say, I don't like it.

“Would you please come down to Chapel Hill so we can talk about what’s coming up.”

"Brian Moore said Barack Obama is not a socialist.

And Moore should know. He's the Socialist Party USA candidate for president.

"It's misleading for Republicans to say that," the local peace activist and perennial candidate said.....Moore said McCain and Palin are abusing the "socialist" label. Likewise, he said Obama's programs wouldn't create a true wealth redistribution.

"It seems like both major party candidates are trying to use socialism to their advantage, in a negative and in a positive way," he said."

The actual socialist candidate says Obama is not a socialist.  Sarah Palin has no room to talk, calling him a socialist when her state is self-described as the most socialist state in the US because the money they get on their "collectively owned" gas and Palin giving the residents a tax credit for the high rise in heating.  So it's ok as long as it's for Alaska and it's coming from the Republicans??

Just because someone is voting for a 3rd party, does not mean you can or should try to guilt them into voting for McCain.  The 3rd party votes are not coming from just republicans, they're coming from both sides.  It is not a vote for Obama, it is a vote for the person they want to vote for.  If we all continue to vote for someone we really don't want to, he's just the "lesser of two evils" then we're going to continue to have a very corrupt government and we're going to continue to be unhappy.  Vote for your principals, not which party they're in.

I asked a woman the other day, perhaps 50 years old or so, how many times in your life have you voted FOR somebody? She sat and thought through all the elections and after a somewhat long pause, said 'never'.

Interesting...I told her that in every election since I was 25 I voted FOR the person I thought was best suited for the job AND the one who stood on a doctrine of personal liberty. These people never won...but I was proud of the guy in the mirror I saw the following morning.

Neither the Republicans nor Democrats have any respect or support for freedoms as defined in the Constitution. Therefore if they don't change their positions on things they shall NEVER earn my vote.

I just heard the morning news and it seems that Joe the Plumber now has an attorney AND a PUBLISTIST and is working on a book deal, a recording contract (seems he's planning to be the next C&W superstar) and is entertaining the thought of running for Congress.... AND he's on the campaign trail with Palin answering questions on foreign policy (you can't make this stuff up - they had the video to go with it).  What happened to his "plumbing job" and his "plans" to buy the company?

Talk about "scare" tactics. NOW I'm really scared!

Hugs BD

Agostino Leyre wrote on Oct 30^th, 2008 at 8:45am:


I guess I'll try a more-or-less thoughtful response to this.

Political action in support of a third-party agenda doesn't begin and end with your vote.  

There are many, many people who are either sympathetic to, or actual dues-paying members of third parties in the United States who are attempting to take a longer view--beyond the perspective of a single election cycle.  Or even ten election cycles.  I can think of several parties who encourage this thinking.

While they concentrate their efforts on presenting candidates in local, regional, and statewide races (wherever they might be) and get their candidates elected, they vote for the major party candidate in House, Senate, and Presidential elections who most closely matches their third-party's platform.  In this way, they build their base until the day that they are finally a credible force to be reckoned with on the national stage.

Permanent change is usually incremental.  While it's conceivable that a major party in the US could suddenly be rendered marginal (it's happened before, but not lately) it's much more likely that a powerful grassroots third-party movement beginning at the base and spreading upward will have a lasting impact.

We have an unprecedented opportunity to do this these days.  The internet allows us to connect with like-minded people wherever they might be, and enables us to build alliances with others who share our views--which was never possible before.  What will we eventually do with this?  I'm not sure, but I think it's beginning to happen, for better or worse.

So--if you're serious about changing the landscape, consider the long view.  It's not about tilting at windmills--it's about eroding the windmills at the base until they collapse.

To mix yet another metaphor--there's more than one way to skin a dinosaur.

Best,

George    

Brilliant post, George!

"Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.” - Jerry Garcia

Regards,
Jim