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Okay - moving forward. (Read 10117 times)
purpleydog
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #25 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 4:36pm
 
Quote:
purpleydog wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 3:19pm:
gizmo wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 2:28pm:
Common sense would do ...

Oliver



I agree here. I think showing mutual respect is all that is needed. And most people already show that common respect.

While I'm sure there may be some specific ideas on how the members of this forum should act, doesn't it really come down to the golden rule? If there is a set of rules to go by, this board would have to be heavily moderated to enforce those rules. And what are the consequences when the rules are broken?


Well... in religion there are rules, say for instance the ten commandments. Some believe that when the ten commandments are broken and if the appropriate regret/remorse/plea for forgiveness has not been excersized to the appropriate parties ... then it goes to reason that they will be condemned to an eternity in hell.

I agree that the forum would have to be heavily moderated around the clock to enforce the rules. Perhaps a committee can be elected of moderators, whose job it will be to monitor the boards in shifts 24/7... or common sense would be good also.

with warm regards,
Tony



I suppose when someone is treated with blatant disrespect (this is what the rules Helen is proposing really comes down to, treating others with respect), the offending person could be condemned to an eternity in hell. But I think this may be beyond the scope of what DJ and Steph are able to do.

I belonged to a board once where you couldn't send PM's, you couldn't post any links of any kind. You couldn't give out your email addy to anyone, nor an IM address. You could not just post what you thought, because it would offend the moderators, and one would be banned for that and for doing anything I listed. And if there was even a hint of attacking someone, the attacker was banned. If you said anything negative at all about anything, you'd get banned.

Quote:
DJ has shut down the board before and I always wondered why he didn't just ban the problem child for a few days instead.

This board is different though and assigning different mods would have to be done very carefully. Not everything is black and white, many times they are just different shades of gray.

What I DO intend to do is not set back silently when I see someone being abused. I am gonna start calling them out. Maybe if someone is being a bully, if 10-12 people rise up and bully the bully, maybe it will get better, maybe not. I think this is what Steph was trying to say a few months ago, that we need to be more pro-active and police ourselves.


Who guards the guards? Banning the problem child as fast as offensive posts are taken down takes about the same amount of time.

Jimi, is bullying the bully going to work? I remember when Steph said police ourselves. It doesn't work. The bullies continue on, and the pro-active are ignored or else singled out.

If all members of this board can't treat each other with respect, then having rules or codes of conduct or agreements won't mean much.
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Racer1_NC
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #26 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 4:47pm
 
I don't think I'll give specific ideas, I'd likely be run out of here on a rail if I did.

I do know something has to give. When I came here back in 2003 one could log on at most anytime in a 24 hour period and see 3 lines of names of "users online" and if you didn't check in 2-3 times a day the new posts would stretch to the 2nd page.

I look back to the archives and see dozens of names that I don't see here anymore. While I'm sure there are many reasons....people do come and go...I can't help but think many aren't here because they found the BS too much to stomach or were simply run off by person or persons unknown.

Our "family" (if one must call it that) is shrinking when it should be growing and that's not a good thing.

B
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Jimi
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #27 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 4:50pm
 
Good questions Chris. Yes I think everyone would accept DJ and Steph banning someone for a time but anyone else having the authority to do it, not so much.


Some peoples personalities are different than others. You could take a comment I made and it not bother you and the same comment made by someone else would if you didn't care for that person.

Treating people as you want to be treated is the perferred way of course, and one that I subscribe to (or try to) but does it work on here? For some........not yet.   Will it ever? I don't know.
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LeLimey
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #28 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 4:54pm
 
I would also like to add that if anyone has a point they would like raised but doesn't need the controversy of raising it - pm or email me.

I'll do it! I have no compunctions about it.

My aim is very simple. To create a nicer atmosphere to be in.
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LeLimey
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #29 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 4:58pm
 
And another thing, lets keep this impersonal please.

No "naming names" or vilifying people. What's done is done, we're trying to move on not stick in the same rut.

I'd like it if we can discuss incidents but not those involved specifically as that way will descend into a free for all before we can blink. Hanging people now serves no purpose really, you throw a stone, one gets flung back and so on and it never ends.

Lets have a ceasefire.

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LeLimey
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #30 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 5:03pm
 
How about

Do not post on the new board unless you can be constructive?

Please remember, new people finding this site are largely uneducated about CH, they do not have coping techniques and they do not have knowledge. Please try to help with all those issues instead of taking issue with the way they are trying to deal with CH currently.

We cannot prevent disagreements but can we at least moderate our language and personal attacks when airing differences?
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Racer1_NC
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #31 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 5:21pm
 
Just to give people an idea of what other forums use for guidelines and rules, check this out.
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This forum is popular (204,556 users) and reasonably moderated.

I'm not saying those rules are templet for Ch.com, but it'll give you an idea of how other boards are set up.

B
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #32 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 5:58pm
 
I'm in.


Kelly
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Marc
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #33 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:02pm
 
Will I get banned for posting pictures that other people don't like?  Wink

Just adding a little levity...... carry on.
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Bob P
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #34 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:13pm
 
I don't like it!

With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me and I sure wouldn't welcome more "rules" here.

I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations.  It's served it's purpose well for the last 9 years.

Makes the place feel like home!
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« Last Edit: Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:51pm by Bob P »  

Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.  "SHUT UP HUB!"
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Cathi_Pierce
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #35 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:26pm
 
Marc wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:02pm:
Will I get banned for posting pictures that other people don't like?  Wink

Just adding a little levity...... carry on.


YES!, that's just plain mean, so knock it off.......yeahh..that's it......post  some ugly pics for a change, wouldja??.. Cheesy

Now, if you want to draw a line, I think tall people who take better pics than me should be automatically banned........ Tongue

Seriously, folks, we can not moderate what each and every person here has to say.and banishing some people for posting under duress(from the Beast) would surely be counterproductive. Fact is, mean people suck, so be nice..or, orr........that's where I get stuck! I can't even ground my children anymore, how would one prevent an adult-who could, BTW  be thousands of miles away......from posting meanness>?
When it was my turn, I apologized several times and the upshot was I should simply move on, I had no business here. I was a 'homewrecker"  and a dilletante who would run at the first opportunity. Well, that one, so far, has backfired. When it gets nasty around here, and I'd LIKE to leave, I remember when I was told to leave, and, when that didn't work, I was told I'd get bored and move on......I guess you could say orneriness keeps me here. I try to add to the positivity here and never use hurtful words or phrases. If something angers me, I avoid comment......I am noone's judge and jury.
Once again, I submit we go to that universal Golden Rule. Moderate yourselves. Think before posting. Love everyone, warts and all, and be a positive member of this community.

But, again, that's just me.......
'
Cathi
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« Last Edit: Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:43pm by Cathi_Pierce »  

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Garys_Girl
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #36 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:35pm
 
I'm not a CH.com alumnus, but I certainly wouldn't mind agreeing to rules/guidelines that ask people to be respectful or constructive in the "Cluster Headache Help & Support" forums. !! 

To be "self-policing" to the extent possible, long-time or frequent members can simply report offensive posts to the forum moderator(s) and from there?  Either the offensive post just gets deleted by the mod, or the poster is asked to modify the post?

I participate in and have been a moderator of a very heavily moderated/policed site.  There were two competing sites in the category.  The unmoderated site no longer exists.  Both were founded in 2000/2001.  The heavily moderated site now turns a profit (I know it's not a goal here) - but that is because it brings in advertising dollars with 167,319 threads, 2,409,045 posts, 30,241 members, of which 1,744 are active, and there are 50 - 100 "guests" seeking information on those forums at any given time.  Not suggesting the goals here be changed.  Just points to results in the difference between being welcoming to people (which was a problem there for a time) and trashing them because they're not yet educated to the subject.

One last thought - maybe in the "new visitors" section include info about how people here feel about using the word "cure?"  Then rather than trashing people, we simply have a link we can point to.

Laurie
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #37 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:36pm
 
Bob P wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:13pm:
I don't like it!

With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me.

I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations.

Makes the place feel like home!


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the idea was gravitating to just the "more serious" forums or in dealing with people new to the site?

Laurie
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Jonny
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #38 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 8:14pm
 
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #39 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 8:41pm
 
Bob P wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:13pm:
I don't like it!

With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me and I sure wouldn't welcome more "rules" here.

I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations.  It's served it's purpose well for the last 9 years.

Makes the place feel like home!


I agree 100%..... Lenny
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #40 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 8:42pm
 
I like common sense best but if you must deal with some kind of code, just make sure that it isn't like manditory sentencing. Don't overdo it.

I can get along without it though. DJ & Steph do rather well

Charlie
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Paul98
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #41 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 8:54pm
 
I guess if you post to folks, treat them as you would like to be treated.  It has worked for me on here.

Once again, people should not take things so personal all the time.  I don't see how some people can make it through a day in life sometimes.  Sorry, life isn't about you ALL the time.  In fact it seldom is!

The garbage I just ignore.  Delete button?  I don't need no stinkin delete button Grin

-P.



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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #42 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 8:56pm
 
purpleydog wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 3:19pm:
I remember when Steph said police ourselves. It doesn't work. The bullies continue on, and the pro-active are ignored or else singled out.

If all members of this board can't treat each other with respect, then having rules or codes of conduct or agreements won't mean much.

My sentiment exactly.  I too observed this dynamic on another board (older and much busier than CH.com) where members are to "self moderate".  It simply doesn't work, period.

99% of people are truly caring, compassionate, loving, and eager to help, especially on boards for medical conditions.  But the remaining 1%, bullies and meanies have no concept of "common sense".  Self-moderation only works if enough people are gutsy enough to point out rude and inappropriate behaviors AND the offending party is willing to be corrected.  But "normal" people tip toe around the bullies or just grab info and stay away, leaving the boards to the bullies to create the public image of belligerent environment.

It's said that there are 100 lurkers to ONE active member on busy & established public boards (I don't know the validity of it).  When civility, common sense, and mutual respect are not enforced, many of the 99% get disgusted and quietly slip away without further contributing to the collective knowledge and sharing of experiences.  We share the violent pain......but who wants clusterheads to be viewed as a bunch of hostile and classless meanies?  Must we take the frustration out on each other???

I don't have an answer to this dilemma of self-moderated public boards.  We can't change people who don't understand hurting and belittling another human being--let alone fellow sufferers--cannot be an acceptable behavior.  I however feel developing a code of conduct is a good idea.  The 99% won't need it, but it helps to have something official to refer to when necessary.  After witnessing and experiencing rudeness upon my return, I for one don't even know if CH.com has become an "anything goes, whatever you want to do with each other" site.

Apologies for the "dumping" part of my post.
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #43 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 9:00pm
 
I'm not usually wild about rules of any kind, even democratically designed ones but in a mostly unmoderated forum there has to be something to protect people

For me, the problem here has never been cranky or rude posts or pm's, it is when it gets personal and attacks the individual, not what they did or said or suggested.

It would help if things could be separated i.e. "You the person are fine, but I don't agree with what you say"

The classic example is the new person who genuinely comes here believing they have an answer or a treatment and want to share it (not the Alis of this world of course- he isn't genuine)
You all know they don't have the answer, but they don't!

Some people on here seem to find it impossible to disagree with a viewpoint without adding in really offensive personal comments and attacks (and believe me I know, she says with feeling)

No-one should be criticised for leaving if they are subjected to that.

Is there a wording of some "guideline" which could be used to respond to offensively personal posts?



W the B
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #44 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 9:08pm
 
What's the B stand for Wendy?  Dare I ask? Cheesy

-P.
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #45 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 9:10pm
 
Wendy the Brit

(or Dubya da Bee as they used to call me here)
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #46 - Nov 21st, 2008 at 9:13pm
 
Ahh!

-P.
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #47 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 6:28am
 
purpleydog wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 4:36pm:
If all members of this board can't treat each other with respect, then having rules or codes of conduct or agreements won't mean much.

Amen!
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john_d
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #48 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 7:25am
 
Bob P wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:13pm:
I don't like it!

With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me and I sure wouldn't welcome more "rules" here.

I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations.  It's served it's purpose well for the last 9 years.

Makes the place feel like home!


Reminds me of a local dude who wants to post warning signs every five feet on our local intercoastal waterway because a family member fell in a hole.  'Rule pollution' as his personal therapy.  The only thing that happens with this place gets 'lawful and orderly' is people get bored and stop posting.
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BarbaraD
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Re: Okay - moving forward.
Reply #49 - Nov 22nd, 2008 at 7:56am
 
Bob P wrote on Nov 21st, 2008 at 6:13pm:
I don't like it!

With the results of the current election, my life is about to be taken over and run by the Government for me and I sure wouldn't welcome more "rules" here.

I think the board should stay wide open for people to express themselves freely without new rules or regulations.  It's served it's purpose well for the last 9 years.

Makes the place feel like home!


Good Grief!! I find myself agreeing with Bob P once more!!! What's the world coming to?

DJ (and now Steph) have done a great job of moderating this board all these years. If someone finds fault - notify them and let them handle it.

As Jimi said, a thing said by one is going to be taken one way - by another - that's a different story altogether. Policing ain't gonna change human nature.

A "polite" PM about board "protocol" to an "offensive" (the word "cure" seems to be the latest "offense")  post might be a better solution that setting up a bunch of rules that will stiffle everyone.

Personally, I've always enjoyed the "freedom" of this board and being able to say whatever came to mind. I enjoy the political arguments even when I'm getting slammed and would hate to see this stopped.

I don't like to see a newbie (or an oldie for that matter) being put down (and will usually jump in when they are) for any reason (even when they have a "cure"). But I don't want to see people not getting help when they need it. That's the purpose of this board after all.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents...

Hugs BD
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