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Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East (Read 13453 times)
Potter
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #50 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 6:17pm  
    What if the Jews bought Florida and moved?

               Potter
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Melissa
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #51 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 6:34pm  
I was going to say, the US could absorb the population of Israel...

just sayin... Undecided
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #52 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 6:44pm  
Why should they? And why should Israel leave their country and evacuate the Holy Land? I'm not a Christian or a Jew, but even I recognize the importance of that land to the Jews and Christians.

I suppose that after 9/11, the United States should have turned New York City over to Al-Qaeda because the rest of the country could easily absorb the population of Manhattan and New York City. Is this what you're saying?
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #53 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 6:51pm  
No Frank, I'm not.  I'm just saying that they have been at war with each other for DECADES.  Can you honestly say that either side will concede??  Seriously????  Do you think that property rights are respected ANYWHERE in this world??  Really??

I'm just sayin, it'd be one (albeit a really far fetched one) solution...
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #54 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 6:55pm  
Hrmmm... And how long until Islamic extremists were making incursions and launching attacks, and we had the same situation, here? Honestly, it would probably really great if Israel could feasibly pull out and find a more peaceful place to build their homeland, but they shouldn't have to, and I agree that at this point, Hamas is reaping what it has sown.

The Palestinian civilians of Gaza are as much victims as the Israeli civilians that Hamas has been rocketing for months, now. On Christmas day, 80 rockets were launched by Hamas into southern Israel. Can you imagine what the US retaliation would be if Mexico launched 80 rockets into El Paso?
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Melissa
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #55 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 7:02pm  
I totally understand what you're saying, ok?  I'm not completely oblivious to it.
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #56 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 7:07pm  
Why should the Christians have a dog in this fight?  If they are going to be represented here, then the Muslims have that right too.

The Jews have been fighting for that particular area since 1800-1500 BC.  The Muslims have been in that area since 658 AD.  Between them killing themselves off and the Christians (Crusades wiped out Muslims and Jews alike) killing both off, it's no wonder that it's a long convoluted story here.
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #57 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 7:13pm  
The whole situation really sucks... I don't know that there will ever be peace, there. No doubt about it: War sucks. I've been twice, and have no desire to ever go again...

Israel is really between a rock and a hard place. If they do nothing, they keep getting hit with attacks. If they wall off Gaza and end humanitarian and diplomatic ties with Palestine, they are vilified. If they defend themselves, they are vilified. If they make concessions, they are met with aggression and seen as weak. If they don't make concessions, they are seen as the oppressor.

When these rocket attacks first began, I thought, Oh hell.. Here we go... And I was surprised that Israel did nothing. When the rocket attacks continued, I was amazed that Israel did nothing. As the days and weeks of rocket attacks continued, I wondered what they were waiting for.

I'm sure the Arab world wondered the same thing. At this point, according to the Israeli Defense Minister, the goal is not regime change in Palestine. The goal is for the rocket attacks to stop, and for the Israeli people in southern Israel to be able to live in peace. He said that if the rocket attacks stop tomorrow, the Israeli operation will end tomorrow.

It's hard to argue with that.
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #58 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 8:03pm  
Frank:

BOHICA sums it up.  If you're a Jew or a Christian, that land was given to Abraham and his descendants (seed) forever.  The Koran lists Abraham as a prophet, but didn't seemingly get that property rights correctly.

sigh,

Ray
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #59 - Jan 3rd, 2009 at 10:49pm  
It seems hopeless. They used what little chance they had to do everything but find a way to get along. Terror, not a hint of something constructive. Israelis have only so much patience with this bunch.

Charlie
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #60 - Jan 4th, 2009 at 5:01am  
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #61 - Jan 4th, 2009 at 7:32am  
Quote:
this conflict has 2 countries, one strong and one weak.


Actually it has just one country involved, Israel.  This is Israel vs the terrorist group Hamas.  As usual the terrorists hide within the general population hoping to increase civilian casualties and turn public oppinion against the attackers.  It astonishes me how quickly people fall for this tactic!
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #62 - Jan 4th, 2009 at 4:56pm  
i'am not sure which of the peoples have a right to be in the area. for me, what is occurring is wrong. andrew.
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #63 - Jan 4th, 2009 at 5:03pm  
Discussing land rights and who was there first and all that stuff is just getting very far afield from the issues at hand: Whatever the history, the borders of Israel are what they are, and rather than living in peace, they have been rocketed day after day by a neighbor who refuses to live in peace. Israel is defending itself.

That being said, I'm unsure of why there is a ground offensive and what the aims of that offensive are.

At this point, there needs to be some avenue opened up for refugees to leave Gaza so that civilian casualties can be kept to a minimum.
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #64 - Jan 4th, 2009 at 5:59pm  
Frank_W wrote on Jan 4th, 2009 at 5:03pm:
At this point, there needs to be some avenue opened up for refugees to leave Gaza so that civilian casualties can be kept to a minimum.


They've been told for days to leave, thousands of leaflets dropped on them.

Oh well!
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #65 - Jan 4th, 2009 at 8:56pm  
Well, i was listening to one man who was being interviewed by telephone, and he said, "Where am I going to go? There IS nowhere to go! Besides, I'd rather die in my home, if it comes down to that."

It's a sentiment I can understand... I think the Palestinian civilians are as much victims of Hamas as the Israeli civilians in southern Israel. They just seem like they're caught between the hammer and the anvil...

There aren't going to be any easy answers forthcoming. It's a tragedy all the way around. Until the civilized world wakes up and joins together to combat extremism, this problem is going to continue.

Arabs, moderate Muslims, Christians, Jews, secular governments... All need to forge an alliance and a united front against the scourge of radical fundamentalism and terrorism.
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #66 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 9:13am  
I feel so absolutely horrible for the people caught in the crossfire.  It just tears at my heart.

Hamas sucks! Angry
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #67 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 12:53pm  
Quote:
Hamas sucks! 

They sure do. Lets look at who is supply's the weapons and money.
Syria/Iran sucks as well. Iran has been kicking that pile for 30 years.
Syria has been providing money and weapons for years. Lets not forget Pakistan who turns a blind eye to extremism.
Terrorists and radical muslim extremists will only continue what they do so well, kill innocent people even their own.
all the best
the bb
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #68 - Jan 5th, 2009 at 11:56pm  
What's sad is that modern Israel has been around only since I was 2 and it's been a mess from the beginning. I thought when I was young that a few generations down the road, things would ease up but nope. Their neighbors make sure to teach hatred as a way of life and it's more dangerous to the whole world today than ever.

An aside: Christians and Jews get along well? Now they do but even in the 1950s, Jews in my town were called everything but Jews when I was a kid. My Christian neighbors had very little good to say about Catholics and kids attending Catechism were treated badly as well. It's not so long ago..........

Charlie
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #69 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 7:55am  
Charlie, you have a point. I was one of those Catholic kids and I remember how we were treated. I also remember hearing things like, "You gotta watch that damn Jew - he'll overcharge you if you're not careful." We've come a long way in less than 60 years.

Look at how blacks were treated all over the country as recent as the 60's and early 70s. Granted it wasn't on the "mass" scale as in the mid east, but we had our share of terrorism right here in the good old US with cross burning, bombings, hangings, etc. Some of the younger kids around here don't remember the David Dukes or the Central High School in Little Rock or the Klan (thank goodness) or some of the things we saw right here in River City...

It's just a damn shame that people can't figure out that we're all different, we think different, we worship different, we look different and get over it. That's what makes us unique. All we're succeeding in doing is instilling hate in our children and it will never get better.

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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #70 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 8:55am  
Some more thoughts on the war. Someone said that Israel's actions were immoral and I began thinking on this...

It's not a moral issue. There are some who feel that all violence is immoral, and I can appreciate that point of view and why someone might hold that point of view, but what I fail to understand is why Hamas is getting a free pass on the violence that they've showered on Israel for weeks and weeks, and when Israel finally defends itself, then that moral outrage is directed at Israel.

If Hamas hadn't done anything and Israel was taking their current action without any sort of provocation, then I would find that reprehensible. At this point, I have a few hopes:

1. That civilians will be able to remain out of the line of fire. (Even though Hamas is using them for shields. Talk about immoral!!)

2. That Hamas is crippled so badly in these attacks, that it finally gets through their thick and stupid skulls that terrorism and violence are no longer viable options.

3. That Israeli and Palestinian civilians are allowed to live in peace and security the way they deserve to, because deep down, that's what most people want: To live in peace and to raise their families in safety, with plenty of food and clean water, and decent schools.

4. That Hamas realizes how they have squandered the majority of Arab support for their cause. Hamas was so sure that they were doing what the whole Arab world wanted, by rocketing Israel, and I think they banked on the fact that once Israel retaliated, the rest of the Arab world would pitch in to overthrow and overrun Israel, and that Hamas would be the big heroes of the day. It's interesting that every Arab government, with perhaps the exception of Iran, has turned its back on Hamas and its terrorist tactics. Hamas made a gamble and lost. Badly.
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #71 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 10:16am  
As I pointed out before, Palestine was not the one that broke the cease-fire.  They weren't firing rockets into Israel until Israel went in and killed 6 Palestinians and basically blocked all food, water, fuel, etc. from going into Gaza and not allowing anyone in or out.  How does that make Hamas the one responsible?  They were told for days to leave??  They can't leave, Israel has blocked anyone and everyone from leaving for over 2 months now.  Plus the day before Israel started air attacks, the defense minister was in Egypt and said they weren't planning an attack.

The whole thing is a political move to get the current government re-elected in a month because they're seen as "too soft" on Palestinians.  The other guys have already voiced their ways to rid the whole area of all Palestinians.  This is much like we've seen in our history - Presidents going to a war to secure a re-election.  It has been planned since the cease-fire was signed by Israel.

Palestinians do not hate Israel or Jews.  They hate the government and settlers for the abuse they're doing to them.  Before Israel was a state, Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived together in peace.  The Palestinians just want to be able to work, get to work and live normal lives, not have their homes and belongings taken from them, taking them 5 hours to get to work that would otherwise take them 20 minutes, not be beaten and abused by Israeli settlers and soldiers and not have innocent children killed by the Israeli settlers and soldiers.
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #72 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 10:21am  
Audre wrote on Jan 6th, 2009 at 10:16am:
As I pointed out before, Palestine was not the one that broke the cease-fire.  They weren't firing rockets into Israel until Israel went in and killed 6 Palestinians and basically blocked all food, water, fuel, etc. from going into Gaza and not allowing anyone in or out.  How does that make Hamas the one responsible?

Audre, you are confusing me.  Are you grouping Hamas and the Palestinians together??
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« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2009 at 10:22am by Melissa »  
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #73 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 10:47am  
The Palestinians don't hate Israel or the Jews? Hrmmmm... Then that "Death to Israel!!" screaming and suicide bombing and hostage taking, and teaching their children that Israeli children are related to pigs and dogs -- They were just bullshitting?

Oh... I didn't know that.  Smiley
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Re: Very sad, unfortunate situation in the Middle East
Reply #74 - Jan 6th, 2009 at 11:06am  
I was wondering the same thing Frank. If they (Palestinians) are so interested in "living in peace" then why the hell don't they start helping the cause instead of letting the radicals live among them? It would seem to me that if they are so interested in peace, they would start making calls and letting Israel know where the hell they are hiding.

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