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midwestbeth CH.com Sponsor Offline Posts: 1123 Edwardsville, IL Gender:	It's even worse than we thought Feb 4^th, 2009 at 4:26pm Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Million, Billion, Trillion, it may as well be Gazillion.......do these words mean anything anymore? When words are used too freely without any thought, I believe they do lose their meaning.........I don't think she has a clue.
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zwibbs-Scott

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Stay Strong !!!

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #1 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 4:44pm

Yup--Nancy is a charmer, but then again so is Dodd, and my ultimate favorite Barney Frank. I just put a bumper sticker on my car---DO NOT BLAME ME I DIDN'T VOTE FOR OBAMA. Can everyone say " Jimmy Freakin Carter all over again. Also don't pay your taxes because the man's name on our money now forgot...It's a freakin nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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There's always light at the end of the Tunnel.

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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #2 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 4:50pm We are in so much trouble... Most people don't realize how much trouble we're in.
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echo CH.com Alumnus Offline Chronic and still alive --- I Win! Posts: 4544 Overland Park, KS Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #3 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 4:56pm Brew wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 4:50pm: We are in so much trouble... Most people don't realize how much trouble we're in. True, And those that think we've already hit bottom are looking through rose colored glasses.
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midwestbeth CH.com Sponsor Offline Posts: 1123 Edwardsville, IL Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #4 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:01pm Brew wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 4:50pm: We are in so much trouble... Most people don't realize how much trouble we're in. I do and I'm fucking terrified. This is just the beginning.
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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #5 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:20pm Dang, 500 million jobs lost (must be counting the illegals also).
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Redd CH.com Sponsor Offline Posts: 8457 Stevens Point USA Wisconsin Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #6 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:27pm Illegals aren't counted to start with. These are recognized FTE jobs that were lost, and the number is expected to grow by the end of the First quarter.
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Jeannie CH.com Sponsor Offline Live, Laugh, Love.... Posts: 2333 St Louis, Missouri Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #7 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:29pm 500 million a month? ? ? ? Or total???
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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #8 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:29pm The US only has 305 million citzens. Where are the toher 195 million jobs?
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Redd CH.com Sponsor Offline Posts: 8457 Stevens Point USA Wisconsin Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #9 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:32pm I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer. The total nubers of jobs lost are calculated only based the reported FTE job losses. I didn't mean to imply that her stated numbers were accurate, only that illegal job losses can't be quantified. Sorry.
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Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #10 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:34pm echo wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 4:56pm: ...those that think we've already hit bottom are looking through rose colored glasses. The apparentness is more aglow as this long walk has neared the off-lying bonfire.
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Redd CH.com Sponsor Offline Posts: 8457 Stevens Point USA Wisconsin Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #11 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:45pm US job losses 522,000 in January: ADP survey Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Thats just last month alone...I'm part of the millions who lost their job in the last 4 months of 2008.
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Bob P

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Shut up Bob!

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #12 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:54pm

Quote:

$500K spent on Dem caucus retreats
By Susan Crabtree
Posted: 02/03/09 07:10 PM [ET]
The House Democratic Caucus spent more than $500,000 in taxpayer money over the past five years for its annual retreats at resorts in Pennsylvania and Virginia.

On Thursday, Democrats will head to the Kingsmill Resort and Spa in historic Williamsburg, Va., for the three-day planning powwow. The resort boasts multiple championship golf courses, a full-service spa and six restaurants.

Individual lawmakers pay for most of the expenses related to retreat lodging through their campaign committees, but the Democratic Caucus subsidizes some of the costs for what aides consider “official business” — to the tune of nearly $100,000 each year, according to a Democratic aide involved in retreat planning.

For instance, the caucus picks up the hefty transportation tab, as well as the thousands of dollars in expenses each year for guest speakers, food and entertainment, according to financial disbursement records.

Democratic leadership sources were reluctant to talk about any aspect of the trip, but they defended it as an important planning session for the entire country.

“This retreat is strategic planning for the country,” said Democratic Caucus spokeswoman Emily Barocas. “The president, vice president and three Cabinet secretaries will be meeting with the caucus to plan the direction we are taking the country in.”

The topic is particularly sensitive this year after several Democratic lawmakers slammed American International Group (AIG) executives for spending more than $440,000 at a company retreat in Monarch Beach, Calif., just days after the federal government bailed the company out with $85 billion in taxpayer funds.

It goes to parties!!!!!

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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!"

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Lobster

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #13 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:57pm

So I put a shitload of money into unhedged foreign investments, knowing that the USA is dogfucked. When we start handing out money we do not have, inflation is supposed to shoot to the stars. And what happens? Our dollar goes through the roof, like a freaking monster truck mowing down old ladies. It is a powerhouse all of a sudden.
Wtf is up with that?

Peter Schiff...
My take was that U.S. government's response to the crises would be so inflationary and so detrimental to the long-term health of our economy, that it would overwhelm any temporary boost the dollar would get from deleveraging. Here my error was my overestimation of the market's ability to comprehend the long term inflationary effects of a massive expansion of money supply. The irony here is that while the government is acting even more irresponsibly than I had forecast, the dollar has managed to rally in the face of it!

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Rock beats Scissors.

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midwestbeth CH.com Sponsor Offline Posts: 1123 Edwardsville, IL Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #14 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:58pm Bob P wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:29pm: The US only has 305 million citzens. Where are the toher 195 million jobs? Exactly!!!
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Kevin_M

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withered branches grow
green again.

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #15 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 6:12pm

by Bob P.
Quote:

$500K spent on Dem caucus retreats
By Susan Crabtree
Posted: 02/03/09 07:10 PM [ET]

...they defended it as an important planning session for the entire country.

“This retreat is strategic planning for the country,” said Democratic Caucus spokeswoman Emily Barocas. “The president, vice president and three Cabinet secretaries will be meeting with the caucus to plan the direction we are taking the country in.”

They could have used the meeting rooms in one of the many closed library buildings.

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« Last Edit: Feb 4^th, 2009 at 6:30pm by Kevin_M »

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Lobster

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #16 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 6:22pm

Exxon... the worlds largest company... cleared $45 billion last year.
The oil executives must continuously defend their profits in front of congress.
Yet congress gave $90 billion to C & BAC with practically no strings attached. Our country is seriously fucked.

We have a rental we have been showing for two weeks. Nearly everyone shits their pants when we give them the credit check auth form to sign. Out of the 4 that actually filled out apps there are:
2 recent bankruptcies
1 refuses the credit pull
1 with 5 figures of credit card debt and is underwater on her various scheduled payments by at least $1000 a month BEFORE we consider rent, but drove up in her 2008 Escalade

I dunno. The last 3 decades have fostered an irrational stance toward debt and consumerism. Very few planned for a bad case, let alone worst case.

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Rock beats Scissors.

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Paul98

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What, it's all in my head?

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #17 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 7:43pm

Lobster wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 6:22pm:

Exxon... the worlds largest company... cleared $45 billion last year.
The oil executives must continuously defend their profits in front of congress.
Yet congress gave $90 billion to C & BAC with practically no strings attached. Our country is seriously fucked.

We have a rental we have been showing for two weeks. Nearly everyone shits their pants when we give them the credit check auth form to sign. Out of the 4 that actually filled out apps there are:
2 recent bankruptcies
1 refuses the credit pull
1 with 5 figures of credit card debt and is underwater on her various scheduled payments by at least $1000 a month BEFORE we consider rent, but drove up in her 2008 Escalade

I dunno. The last 3 decades have fostered an irrational stance toward debt and consumerism. Very few planned for a bad case, let alone worst case.

I think it is because of the generation or two that never knew what it is like to do without. Saving for a rainy day isn't "normal" any more. Perhaps schools in this country should get rid of the I'm ok, your ok teachings and substitute meaningfull eduaction about economics, money managementand how to live within ones means. It dosn't take a laptop for every student or state of the art classrooms. Chalk board and good books still work. the kids I see in Amish schools and children in the Bahamas in the out islands can read and write and do math better than most public schooled children in the USA.

-P.

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Artonio

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I Love

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #18 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 8:09pm

Bob P wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:54pm:

Quote:

$500K spent on Dem caucus retreats
By Susan Crabtree
Posted: 02/03/09 07:10 PM [ET]
The House Democratic Caucus spent more than $500,000 in taxpayer money over the past five years for its annual retreats at resorts in Pennsylvania and Virginia.

On Thursday, Democrats will head to the Kingsmill Resort and Spa in historic Williamsburg, Va., for the three-day planning powwow. The resort boasts multiple championship golf courses, a full-service spa and six restaurants.

Individual lawmakers pay for most of the expenses related to retreat lodging through their campaign committees, but the Democratic Caucus subsidizes some of the costs for what aides consider “official business” — to the tune of nearly $100,000 each year, according to a Democratic aide involved in retreat planning.

For instance, the caucus picks up the hefty transportation tab, as well as the thousands of dollars in expenses each year for guest speakers, food and entertainment, according to financial disbursement records.

Democratic leadership sources were reluctant to talk about any aspect of the trip, but they defended it as an important planning session for the entire country.

“This retreat is strategic planning for the country,” said Democratic Caucus spokeswoman Emily Barocas. “The president, vice president and three Cabinet secretaries will be meeting with the caucus to plan the direction we are taking the country in.”

The topic is particularly sensitive this year after several Democratic lawmakers slammed American International Group (AIG) executives for spending more than $440,000 at a company retreat in Monarch Beach, Calif., just days after the federal government bailed the company out with $85 billion in taxpayer funds.

It goes to parties!!!!!

as much as this burns my ass... and I find it an extravagance that is not justified.. I am at least grateful that the money was pumped back into the US economy.... It's a shame they don't host one of their little parties in my home town... we sure can use the cash... and I'd be thrilled to rent a room at a reasonable rate.

with warm regards,
Tony

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For in our hands lies the ability to shape our world for good or for ill. President Barack Obama

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Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #19 - Feb 4^th, 2009 at 9:23pm It's also true that the real unemployment rate is probably more than 10% perhaps 12% more. It's always underplayed and it never counts the millions of underemployed. Read it more than once and heard it elsewhere. Charlie
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monty

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #20 - Feb 5^th, 2009 at 7:24am

Lobster wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 5:57pm:

So I put a shitload of money into unhedged foreign investments, knowing that the USA is dogfucked. When we start handing out money we do not have, inflation is supposed to shoot to the stars. And what happens? Our dollar goes through the roof, like a freaking monster truck mowing down old ladies. It is a powerhouse all of a sudden.
Wtf is up with that?

While the problem with debt and other excesses of capitalism is 'largest' in the US, it is larger per person in many other western countries ... housing prices shot up more and the past decade of asset inflation was greater in many parts of Europe. The countries that 'deregulated' most and celebrated the most irrational exuberance (like the UK, Ireland, Iceland) are worse off than US.

Canada avoided much of the asset inflation simply because their banks continued to use common sense in giving out loans (amazing - require a 20% downpayment, don't give a person a loan that is 10X their annual income!) But the Canadian economy is highly dependent on producing commodities like oil and minerals, and they are a high cost producer that won't do well when prices deflate, as they have done recently.

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The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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karma

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #21 - Feb 5^th, 2009 at 6:29pm

most of the numbers seem to use 1982 as a benchmark.. ie unemployment is the worst since 1982
housing starts worse sinec 1982 etc. etc.
I was a young adult in 82 and didn't pay much attention to news or numbers. It is now 09 and the world is still turning.
My point is that yes the economy is in the crapper and things look grim but all we here about is how bad everything is. People are scared to death about what will happen. How much is becoming self fullfilling?
We survived 82, we survived the depression, we will survive 09. How well depends on how well we can adapt our lives to the situation.

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Mat CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 85	Re: It's even worse than we thought Reply #22 - Feb 5^th, 2009 at 6:53pm But hey.....its change......nobody ever said it was for the better.. Know why they don't mind spending your money? They don't pay their taxes, so its no sweat off their back.
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stevegeebe

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #23 - Feb 5^th, 2009 at 8:35pm

Karma... it is self fulfilling especially when 70% of the US economy is dependent upon consumerism. But it's more than that.

Everyone is trying to reduce their personal debt and without debt there is no money. The Fed has orchestrated this condition sublimely and as long as we agree to become slaves to debt, the system continues as they have planned. The Fed, in concert with Government, is promoting a "Spending Bill" in the hope that we will be energized to prompt us and spend as we once did.

It is very different now and to compare it to other downturns is a lie. People are going to be forced into a condition that has not been seen for a long time. Seed and gun sales are up for a reason and it's not because gardening and hunting are the new golf. Our children are going to be very angry and are not going to contribute to Social Security when the Government has nothing but IOU's left in the kitty. Unfunded Medicare...I don't even want to go there.

Youtube Credit Default Swaps and Derivatives and you will begin to get a notion of how bottomless the hole is. Also Youtube the Federal Reserve.

Sorry for the doomer attitude but I've been gathering information from varied sources as I try to obtain information to protect my family with sound sources to understand the direction we need to pursue.

As I've said before...learn the benefits of composting. Learn to grow you own food. The Government is not your friend and they, along with the Fed, look at us as revenue producing free range chickens.

Steve G

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purpleydog

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Re: It's even worse than we thought
Reply #24 - Feb 5^th, 2009 at 9:24pm

Paul98 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 7:43pm:

Lobster wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 6:22pm:

I dunno. The last 3 decades have fostered an irrational stance toward debt and consumerism. Very few planned for a bad case, let alone worst case.

I think it is because of the generation or two that never knew what it is like to do without. Saving for a rainy day isn't "normal" any more. Perhaps schools in this country should get rid of the I'm ok, your ok teachings and substitute meaningfull eduaction about economics, money managementand how to live within ones means.

-P.

Very few people have saved for a rainy day. And it's raining.

Consumerism has been encouraged so much, and loans were so easy to get. Living beyond your means became the standard. Schools should be teaching economics and money management to children. Who is teaching their parents?

Layoffs are coming fast, and people are scrambling to take different jobs, or take the buyouts to retire early. Salaried office workers with seniority are getting laid off, payrolls are being cut. I wonder how many of these people planned for this rainy day?

More foreclosures, credit card debt is sky high. Bankruptcies will be on the rise. People will learn to do without. Like our grandparents did back in the 30's.

We are well and truly fucked.

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