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Time For Critical Action (Read 17098 times)
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #25 - Feb 11th, 2009 at 8:28pm
 
From the code of conduct.

Quote:
Debate is welcome (and encouraged), but attack ideas and opinions; not personalities. 


I hope to read more opinions and ideas.  Sans personal attacks of course.

These are issues that face us all, and I believe healthy debate helps us all to deal with the realities of thes issues as they effect each of us.
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #26 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 9:45am
 
I would say this is a fairly non-partisan thread... at least as non-partisan as this manner of thread can be.  

Kudo's to all...
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #27 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 10:09am
 
Quote:
Obama's signature "Making Work Pay" tax credit for 95 percent of workers, though negotiators agreed to trim the credit to $400 a year instead of $500 -- or $800 for married couples, cut from Obama's original proposal of $1,000. It would begin showing up in most workers' paychecks in June as an extra $13 a week in take-home pay, falling to about $8 a week next January.

There is also a $70 billion, one-year fix for the alternative minimum tax. The fix would save some 20 million mainly upper-middle-income taxpayers about $2,000 in taxes for 2009.


$8 a week!!!  I'm rich, I'm rich!!!!!!!

Quote:
States stand to gain help with their budget shortfalls and assure the viability of Medicaid and education programs.

Collins said the spending includes about $90 billion in increased federal matches to states to help pay for Medicaid, along with a $54 billion "fiscal stabilization" fund that states could use to build and repair schools and improve facilities at institutions of higher learning.

It's still debatable whether the stimulus package will get the economy back on track. Many leading economists have concluded that the stimulus alone may be insufficient to bring a quick turnaround for the economy.

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Economy.com, called for a larger package of spending and tax breaks and predicted that unemployment could top 9 percent next year, up from the current 7.6 percent, even if an $800 billion package is enacted. Nobel laureate economist Paul Krugman also contends that $800 billion will fall short of filling the gap left by projected reductions in consumer and business spending.

Obama has also acknowledged that the stimulus measures are only "one leg of the stool" needed to stabilize the economy. Spending initiatives and tax cuts, he has said, must be combined with the ongoing massive effort to restore confidence and integrity to financial markets, get credit flowing again and right the collapsed housing market.

Other highlights of the bill includes:

Education: The package has some $11.5 billion to support the IDEA program for special education. There's another $10 billion for a federal program to help low-income students.

Energy: The package includes funds to modernize the electrical grid -- in part by incorporating renewable energy resources -- and to make federal buildings more energy efficient and help low-income households weatherize their homes.

Health: The plan includes subsidies to allow people who are laid off to purchase health insurance through the federal COBRA plan. There is also money to support hospitals seeking to modernize health information technology.

Infrastructure: The infrastructure section of the package includes funds for building and repairing highways and bridges, expanding transit systems, upgrading airports and rail systems and building and repairing federal buildings -- with the focus on making them more energy efficient. Funds are available for clean water projects, cleanup of environmental waste areas and nuclear waste cleanups.

Money devoted solely to transportation infrastructure reaches almost $50 billion. Collins said that when all the infrastructure projects for roads, sewers, energy and electricity transmission are added up, it will reach about $150 billion.

The package includes money to bring broadband Internet service to under-served areas.

Other highlights: The plan also supports National Institutes of Health research and contributes to programs in the departments of defense, homeland security, veterans affairs and state.

Some of the tax breaks in the bill include:

Obama's signature "Making Work Pay" tax credit for 95 percent of workers, though negotiators agreed to trim the credit to $400 a year instead of $500 -- or $800 for married couples, cut from Obama's original proposal of $1,000. It would begin showing up in most workers' paychecks in June as an extra $13 a week in take-home pay, falling to about $8 a week next January.

There is also a $70 billion, one-year fix for the alternative minimum tax. The fix would save some 20 million mainly upper-middle-income taxpayers about $2,000 in taxes for 2009.

Infrastructure spending will offer a big boost in job creation according to the Federal Highway Administration, which has estimated that every $1 billion the federal government spends on infrastructure projects translates to 35,000 jobs. Collins put the total infrastructure spending -- including highways, mass transit, environmental cleanups and broadband facilities -- at $150 billion. Do the math and that translates into more than 5 million jobs, based on the highway administration's assumptions.

Senate leaders have offered their own estimate -- they said Wednesday that the total stimulus package will sustain some 3.5 million jobs.

Lawmakers say most of the projects could be up and running within 90 days, although it could take somewhat more time in northern states with longer winters. Highway construction groups have estimated that there are thousands of projects that could be started within that 90 days.

$90 billion for Medicaid - now there's a job creator!  Must be the Government employees needed to monitor the program!
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2009 at 10:21am by Bob P »  

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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #28 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 3:02pm
 
And a few more of the job makers:
Quote:
The following measures in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act have not been included in this list based on any scale of worthiness but merely on whether they fit the definition given by the president of helping stimulate the economy in the next two years. The provisions were identified by FOX News readers prior to the final conference agreement, which is scheduled for votes in the House and Senate in the next two days

Tucked in among the vast construction projects and tax relief programs is an effort to revive a law that's been dead for over 60 years that would provide up to $198 million in pensions for Filipinos who fought alongside the U.S. during WWII. U.S. citizens would get $15,000 a year, but even non-citizens would still get $9,000 a year.

The bill also invests heavily in research and technology. NASA is set to receive $450 million for "Science" and another $200 million for "Aeronautics."

More than $28 billion is being provided to put kids in special education, Head Start and child care and development programs for disadvantaged children.

FOXNews.com readers pored over the package and found a host of expenditures that might not pump money in any time soon. What follows is a list of some of the more fascinating -- if less stimulating -- items in the bill:

-- $100 million for the Lead-Based Paint Hazard Control Grant Program
-- $200 million to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund Program
-- $300 million for "Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs"
-- $900 million for the IRS for the "Limitation on Administrative Expenses"
-- $1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs
-- $2 billion for the Drinking Water State Revolving Act
-- $50 million for Health and Human Services to carry out injury prevention programs
-- $1.1 billion for studies on the effectiveness of different medical treatments -- $200 million to upgrade labs and facilities for the Department of Agriculture "to improve workplace safety and mission-area efficiencies"
-- $10 million for urban canal inspection
-- $16 billion to pay for student financial aid
-- $1 billion to pay for the U.S. Census
-- $600 million to pay for a fuel-efficient federal auto fleet
-- $650 million for the Digital Converter Box Program to help the constantly delayed transition from analog television
-- $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire"
-- Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24
-- $40 million for the occupational research agenda
-- $3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control wellness programs and vaccinations
-- $410 million for Indian health facilities
-- $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstrations

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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #29 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 7:09pm
 
I've said it before, but.......

Take a poll. I believe that you will find that opinions will vary closely with who "has" and who "doesn't have".  It's a sorry state of affairs, but the reality is there.

1) Folks who have managed to earn a strong financial future are unwilling to have it taken away.

2) Folks who don't have a whole lot see a bright light at the end of the tunnel.

If your instinct tells you that I'm wrong, take a close honest look at the posts/posters and I suspect that you will change your mind.

The real pity is that this fact is clearly being played upon by the people we elected and is only making the divide deeper.

Respectfully,

Marc

Edit to add: If you think I'm off base on this tell me how. I've spent a lot of time observing and I believe that I'm correct. Keep in mind that I'm talking about the general population and this board - not a few super-rich people here and there.
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2009 at 7:23pm by Marc » 
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #30 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 7:34pm
 
Marc,

Currently I would fall into the "have-not" category, but I dobn't intend to stay there, and consequently I STRONGLY oppose this bill.  I have had more than now, although never as much as I wanted Grin, but I have never wnated more than an opportunity to make it. 

Jerry
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #31 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 7:42pm
 
Jerry,

Same boat.

Just lost a decent paying job and I have no idea what I'm going to do next. BUT...I've earned some decent money on and off over the years so I know that it can be done.
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #32 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 7:46pm
 
Bob P wrote on Feb 12th, 2009 at 3:02pm:
And a few more of the job makers:


So Bob, what would YOU do if given the reigns of power? 

Do you think that the US should honor its promises to Filipino soldiers we enlisted to fight with us ... before they all die?

Do you think that cleaning up underground tanks that are leaking gasoline and dry cleaning solvents into groundwater is a bad thing? Or that the tanks might somehow clean themselves up, with out a need for hiring geologists, engineers, and backhoe operators?

Don't you think a better vaccine for influenza (which kills 20,000 to 50,000 Americans each year) would improve this country (and maybe give us another product to export)? Or that maybe we should do something proactive to prevent another flu pandemic like we had in 1917??

Do you think that student aid isn't needed, and that most students today graduate with too little debt?  Or that we are wasting too much as it is on special ed?

Seems the Republican call to action is limited to opposing and obstructing anything the Democrats propose.  Do you guys even think there is an economic problem, or will the invisible hand of the market make everything ok? 





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The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #33 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 7:47pm
 
Priceless: GIVE ME FREE STUFF!!!....LOL  Grin

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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #34 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 8:18pm
 
$90 billion for Medicaid... that's part of the down payment for Universal Health Care...  that will be offered for free to illegal aliens being paid by the porkulus plan to take jobs away from American citizens.
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #35 - Feb 12th, 2009 at 9:13pm
 
Quote:
Folks who don't have a whole lot see a bright light at the end of the tunnel.


Under Bush that light at the end of the tunnel was Twentieth Century Limited.

A lot of the "pork" in this bill is an attempt to rectify the mess Bush left when he gutted or underfunded things popular in blue states.

The Medicaid provision however, is the best thing that could happen to the states. New York has been going broke in a big way trying to keep its citizens alive after Bush refused to support health care programs.

Perhaps when business dosen't thave to worry about the absurd costs of health care insurance, they will be inclined to hire or rehire workers because medical insurance won't be a direct cost that gets in the way.

Bring on socialized medicine.

Charlie
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #36 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 12:16am
 
Nice try, but it's not going to work.  Liberals have had control of the budget for the last two years and could have fixed Medicare, but the fact is they just don't care about you, me, or Medicare unless it buys them votes to stay in power. 

Pelosi and the politburo would rather give free medical treatment to illegal aliens to buy their votes after they ram amnesty for all of them up our backsides. 

Besides that when they feed our ages into the Universal Health Care computer to determine the most cost effective treatment, all it's going to give us is an overdose of phenobarbital.
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #37 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 12:39am
 
This giant pork boondoggle serves to 'stimulate' only select segments as either payback for campaign support or pay-it-forward for a large block of indentured voters. As long as someone has the ability to vote for someone else's earnings to arrive in their breadbasket even a dim lightbulb recognizes that they'll be assured of the recipient's support.

To note: The Federal Government has no Constitutional authority to initiate this proposal for ANY reason no matter how many people will <ahem> benefit from it's birth.
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #38 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 1:03am
 
Quote:
... unless it buys them votes to stay in power.


That's why I can't see all the talk about commies, who's going to grasp the political stepladder of vulnerability to this subversion in America, it's not an election year.  Anti-communism is more of a political bludgeon than realistic campaign.  It worked for the Nixon campaign in '46, hey, McCarthy made it in that year, too.  A political, manufactured problem, little concerned about subversion in government.

Recalling the Federal Employees Loyalty and Security Program, civil servants were exposed not on hard evidence but reasonable grounds of disloyalty.  Under suspicion without the chance to confront their accusers or even know the evidence against them.  
 Serving national security?  Several thousand resigned under a cloud, over 200 dismissed, but no one ever indicted, no evidence of espionage ever uncovered -- arbitrary abuses.  Real American fundamental importance.
 The established Temporary Committee on Employee Loyalty's biggest undertaking was denouncing the New Deal as unAmerican and unconstitional.  Yeah, useful also for denouncing reforms.
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« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2009 at 1:29am by Kevin_M »  
 
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #39 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 3:02am
 
$100,000 for doorbells in Laurel, MS!

Part and parcel of how out of control our government has become.

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the entire spending plan at the root here: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #40 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 6:47am
 
So Bob, what would YOU do if given the reigns of power? 

Do you think that the US should honor its promises to Filipino soldiers we enlisted to fight with us ... before they all die?  Yes, but I would do it as a stand alone bill.

Do you think that cleaning up underground tanks that are leaking gasoline and dry cleaning solvents into groundwater is a bad thing? Or that the tanks might somehow clean themselves up, with out a need for hiring geologists, engineers, and backhoe operators?  I would make the companies that own the tanks do this on their dime or face fines.

Don't you think a better vaccine for influenza (which kills 20,000 to 50,000 Americans each year) would improve this country (and maybe give us another product to export)? Or that maybe we should do something proactive to prevent another flu pandemic like we had in 1917??  I would leave it to the research facilities, drug comapnies to do the R&D.

Do you think that student aid isn't needed, and that most students today graduate with too little debt?  Or that we are wasting too much as it is on special ed?  I would fund student grants & loans in an education bill, not hide it in a stimulus bill.

Seems the Republican call to action is limited to opposing and obstructing anything the Democrats propose.  Do you guys even think there is an economic problem, or will the invisible hand of the market make everything ok?
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #41 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 10:09am
 
notseinfeld wrote on Feb 13th, 2009 at 3:02am:
...

the entire spending plan at the root here: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register


Nice link.
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The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #42 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 10:15am
 
notseinfeld wrote on Feb 13th, 2009 at 12:39am:
To note: The Federal Government has no Constitutional authority to initiate this proposal for ANY reason no matter how many people will <ahem> benefit from it's birth.


Nonsense. You should re-read Section 8 of the Constitution:

Quote:
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


The authorization is there, and it is quite broad and vague. Congress has been using that authority since the nation began. It is worth discussing whether the proposals are good or not, but your notion that Congress cannot spend on energy projects, mass transit, or otherwise increase spending to provide for the general welfare of the country is without any foundation.
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« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2009 at 10:19am by monty »  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #43 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 11:27am
 
Bob P wrote on Feb 12th, 2009 at 3:02pm:
-- $900 million for the IRS for the "Limitation on Administrative Expenses"
[/quote]
Huh?
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #44 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 12:46pm
 
It's called payback after the last 15 years of GOP control....Gingrich's destruction of civility in D. C. when he blocked everything Clinton and the Democrats proposed if only for the sake of being able to do so. The rest of it, blame Bush again. He blocked everything. Everytime something came up....child health care, being the worst example; it was vetoed or threatened with one.

Payback is definitely a portion of this bill....Republicans would have been worse. Lots of monster shadowy contractors to build torture prisons, too.

Charlie
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« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2009 at 12:47pm by Charlie »  

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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #45 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 5:55pm
 
yaaa....Child  health care. If you are a family of 4 and make up to $62,400 a year, you can get you kids health care paid for. That's just a push towards nationalized health care. I made $32,000 last year and have no kids. Guess whos taxes will be paying for that.

Mike

P.S. Oh ya. All your tobacoo products went up a buttload to help to pay for this also.
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« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2009 at 6:08pm by M.R. »  

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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #46 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 6:22pm
 
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #47 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 6:58pm
 
Monte..

If, as has been done time and again, folks put everything under the umbrella of the vague 'general welfare' then what pray tell is the purpose of the Constitution to begin with? If any provision therein can be withered away with someone's notion of what general welfare is then the gov't would be with limitLESS powers.

As for section 8 I agree about infrastructure and those items listed as you presented. However, I think we can agree it's a far cry to call Mississippi doorbells at $100,000 provided by government part of an infrastructure plan. Additionally, there are about a hundred other pork provisions with the same merits in this one, massive bill.

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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #48 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 7:09pm
 
notseinfeld wrote on Feb 13th, 2009 at 6:58pm:
I think we can agree it's a far cry to call Mississippi doorbells at $100,000 provided by government part of an infrastructure plan. Additionally, there are about a hundred other pork provisions with the same merits in this one, massive bill.


Dont forget the 30 million for field mice in San Fran!

Un-Fucking-believable!!!!! Angry
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #49 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 7:18pm
 
Washington (PTI): The support for the US President remains strong, with Barack Obama enjoying an approval rating of 67 percent among Americans for the way in which he has handled the government's effort to pass an economic stimulus bill, the latest Gallup poll has said.

Must be the 67% that says things like this:

Bring on socialized medicine.

or like this:

Payback is definately a portion of this bill.

Roll Eyes
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