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Time For Critical Action (Read 16907 times)
Jonny
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #50 - Feb 13th, 2009 at 7:28pm
 
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #51 - Feb 14th, 2009 at 4:39pm
 
What a soup sandwich this is.

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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #52 - Jun 14th, 2009 at 3:00pm
 
Why I fear the Universal Health Care Computer

You have heard of universal health care, but have you thought about the universal health care computer system?

As you may have noticed in their TV ads, the General Electric (GE) Company is trying to get the job to provide the computer systems for a future government run health-care system by saying that they can provide a more intelligent computer network that can provide better health care at lower cost.

This proposed government health-care computer system would arrange appointments, keep information on the patients, compute which tests and treatment would give the most benefit at lowest cost with a triage process, and then schedule tests and treatments.

The “Terminator” movies are about an artificially intelligent computer system which has self-preservation as its ultimate goal, like the computer named “HAL” in the old movie “2001: A Space Odyssey”.  In these movies, the computers try to stamp out human resistance by intelligent computer control.

Governments are sometimes run by single political parties.  Their primary goal, like with HAL or the computers in the Terminator movies, is self-preservation.

The planned health-care computer system would, of course, be connected to the Social Security database; and thus it would know and could optimize treatment on the basis of how much money the system would be likely to get back in future health-care taxes if the patient lives and, more promptly, in estate taxes if the patient dies.

And finally, such a smart computer system could also connect itself to the voter registration databases and factor the patients’ political party preferences into the health-care triage process, in order to keep the ruling party in power, without the need for actual Terminator robots.
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #53 - Jun 14th, 2009 at 8:46pm
 
Could be. I'll take a chance though. Canada, Britain and the rest of most civilized countries must have some experience with this? No one there seems to have been locked out a portal so far.

Charlie
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #54 - Jun 14th, 2009 at 9:29pm
 
Correct Charlie...  Not locked out...  They just die waiting for a prompt.

V/R, Batch
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #55 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 5:43am
 
As an American living in Denmark where this type of health care is the norm I have to say that it is not without flaws. However I think that it is good for all people to have health care and here it is free after you pay about 35percent in taxes. The prescriptions I get I have a low copay on. It does have its good points but there are many danes dying waiting for chemotherapy and things like that. I honestly hope that America does the health care thing better than here. But it is nice to know that if you get in an accident or something you can go to the hospital and not have to lose your house to pay for it. And without this type of health care I would be pretty miserable since in America I had no health care and was fighting this on my own with the docs at the free clinic. And I strongly suspect the ones there graduated at the bottom of the class!
No offense to anyone but please look at both sides. OK?
Sophia Smiley
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #56 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 8:56am
 
No offense taken Sophia and I know nothing is perfect.

Because I'm a crabby old fart, I've managed to get lots of help with medical costs. I pay $3 copay for my anti-convulsants. My appointments, that relate to my epilepsy, are also paid for. I've been able to get this arrangement because I knew it could be done and had the time to go after the powers that be. It took 2-1/2 years and seeing a judge to get disability and  for all its flaws it worked for me. The difference here is that most people who need some kind of insurance are not as mean as me and a lot of them just don't know how to go about this kind of thing. Most of the uninsured are in that category. For myself, I have no right to complain. My country has done me well. For the majority of uninsured however, it's not pretty.


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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #57 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 11:02am
 
Sophia,

Thank you for the objective comments.  Reading a post from someone with first hand experience in both private and government systems of medical health care here in the US and Denmark offers a perspective people need to understand.  

The part where you say health care in Denmark is free after you pay 35% tax contrasted with "many Danes dying waiting for chemotherapy and things like that," illustrates a reality of government run health care too many people here in the US choose to ignore.  

It's only human nature to want something of value for free.  However, in reality, there is always a price that must be paid.  If that price is too high, unfairly levied, and it comes at the expense of freedoms lost, then people need to be very critical. That also makes the notion of national health care, it's cost and consequences, something we all need to understand.

Unfortunately, there are hundreds of provisions for national health care contained in the $878 Billion stimulus bill passed earlier this year by a Congress that didn't even bother to read it.  Moreover, that legislation made well over 100 amendments to existing legislation.  Not one of these provisions dealt with medical tort reform or placed a limit on medical law suits.  Nor did they remove any 1000 Federal mandates for coverage that drive the cost of private health insurance out of sight.

When you combine these changes to public law with the hundreds more contained in the over 800 pages of legislation for national health care being drafted by the liberals in Congress, the citizens of the United States are going to be giving up far more than just the estimated $1.2 Trillion dollar cost to tax payers along with a $313 Billion cut in Medicare coverage over the next 10 years for a system that will ration our medical care...  What is even more disturbing is the present leadership in congress and the present administration want to provide this health care to illegal aliens for free...  at your expense...  

If you'll take the time to read these two pieces of legislation, you'll see that too many freedoms are going to be lost when none should be lost at all.
Were is the common sense?

I hope everyone takes a very critical and common sense look at both sides of this issue, then take a look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

Fixing these three entitlement programs will up the tax towards 100% for generations.  If they come up with the same disturbing conclusions, the only real action is to call, email, and fax members of Congress telling them to stop this insanity or seek employment elsewhere come election time.

Most people live on a budget...  Unfortunately, the leadership in congress and the present administration do not.  They freely overspend our tax dollars effectively saying "They" know better than we do in how to spend our hard earned tax dollars.

As a final note, please recall that Medicare will not cover the cost of oxygen therapy...  As the national health care legislation is patterned after Medicare, guess what will not be covered...

Thanks again for the great comments and take care,

V/R, Batch
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Shawn
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #58 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 12:37pm
 
Batch,

I am in violent agreement with almost everything you say about ObamaCare, but the Annointed One has made it clear that if we don't do what he says, the whole system is going to collapse.  There's no time for debate, no time to read the proposed changes, and no time to worry about how to pay for it.  So, don't try to stop him from saving us or you are being unpatriotic and selfish.

-Shawn

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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #59 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 1:11pm
 
Shawn,

What I hear you saying is the good idea cut off time has come and gone with respect to fixing health care, but there's no limitation on bad ideas...  Have I got that right?

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Shawn
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #60 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 1:40pm
 
Batch,

Almost right.

The time for any ideas from outside of Obama's brain trust have passed. The time for opposing any ideas from Obama's brain trust have passed.

ObamaCare is the only answer now.

Accept it, or you are just being unpatriotic and selfish.

-Shawn
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #61 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:11pm
 
Shawn,

Please tell us who says it is unpatriotic and selfish to protest a rogue Congress that's forgotten who they work for, and that can't do anything but vote itself pay raises and free medical care at the best military medical facilities for life?  

Please tell us why is it unpatriotic and selfish to protest a Congress that can't pass a budget unless it has the single largest deficit in history of the world all because a Marxist trained community organizer wants socialist inspired redistribution of wealth and a single payer government health care bill.  

Why is it selfish to protest the pending National Health Care legislation that will saddle all US tax payers with generational debt, make deep cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and destroy private health care while it provides free health care to unregistered and illegal aliens who reside in the United States?  

I just heard Obama say peaceful protest is a universal right.  Gotta name please?

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #62 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:26pm
 
Since 1929, in various forms, some health care assistance has at least been thought about. The Blues and other plans were no-profits at first for the most part and some mostly local plans did well. Today, Wall Street medicine is too big and the criminals....some of them have records...just can't stand the idea of any form of government health care. You know how sweetly we have been treated by insurance companies over the years. Even doctors hate their arbitrary "guidlines." They are the ones that raid your hospital rooms to make sure you aren't staying an extra day. They threaten patients and doctors. One of their goals....and it is a serious one is to make childbirth a one day event and hopefully something not requiring an overnight stay. I kid you not.

These are the sweet and caring insurers of our health care. Oh, I trust them to watch out for us.............

Charlie
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #63 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 8:16pm
 
As this thread winds, I notice we were urged to write and advise our representitives, one reason singled out being because of additional funds for Medicaid.


Quote:
the spending includes about $90 billion in increased federal matches to states to help pay for Medicaid


Batch wrote on Feb 12th, 2009 at 8:18pm:
$90 billion for Medicaid... that's part of the down payment for Universal Health Care...




More recently urged to advise them because of cuts to Medicaid.


Batch wrote on Jun 12th, 2009 at 3:58pm:
June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Health-care overhaul legislation being drafted by House Democrats will include $600 billion in tax increases and $400 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel said.

I've got it too and this is BAD NEWS!

Please keep sending your cards, letters, faxes, and email to your idiot congressmen who are voting for this piece of crap!  Advise them to seek employment elsewhere come reelection time if not before...



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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #64 - Jun 15th, 2009 at 11:18pm
 
Kevin,

Thank you.  You've made my point in spades...  The porkulus bill Congress didn't bother to read before passing, added $90 Billion for Medicaid as a down payment for Universal Health Care and the new legislation for Universal Health Care will take that $90 Billion away from Medicare and Medicaid along with an additional $223 Billion just to cover the estimated expense of this terrible legislation...  and you already know how exact Obama's estimates have been to date...

Accordingly, please complain to the idiots in Congress for the insane put and take socialist agenda legislation that overspends our tax dollars and takes away more of our freedoms...  

BTW...  Howz yer weight, what's yer cholesterol count, and God forbid you smoke, eat candy, or drink coke?  You see... they want to control your behavior and they want all the tax they can enact from you to do that.

Some folks think the idiots in Congress really care about us...  The dirty little secret is they don't.  If they did, they wouldn't be telling Government Motors to build subcompact golf cart sized cars with 14 times greater fatality rates per million miles than the evil full size cars and SUVs.

As long as you're good at quoting my earlier posts, please recall that in 2006, the death rate for motor vehicle deaths per 100,000 was 15 for a total of 45,000 deaths a year according to NTSA figures...  As the majority of these deaths were accrued by subcompact vehicle drivers and their passengers, that amounts to a potential savings of over $50 Billion a year to Universal Health Care in coverage that doesn't need to be paid along with the additional revenues from the death tax all because some folks were so taken by obama-mania they had to drive Government Motor golf carts...

While you're at it, why else do you think they want to bring back the death tax...  the longer you live... the more you cost Universal Health Care.

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #65 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 1:42am
 
So was that a $90 billion stimulus infusion and

Quote:
a $313 Billion cut in Medicare coverage over the next 10 years


as explained here:

Quote:
$90 Billion for Medicaid as a down payment for Universal Health Care and the new legislation for Universal Health Care will take that $90 Billion away from Medicare and Medicaid along with an additional $223 Billion


for a cutback of $223 billion over ten years?


With the number of baby boomers coming of age for these programs in the next ten years, this would seem problematic.  However, that being hard to say yet without looking at what a health care proposal will be providing also.

It appears now that smiling Joanie McDonalds cannot get that gall bladder taken care of without insurance and can't get insurance for pre-existing conditions, so suffers and takes time off work when needed, to hit emergency where they script her a short-term painkiller. The job is in great jeopardy at a bad time.  Hard working gal too, while trying to get her husband a job at McDonalds, he's looking for work.  Then there's Joanie's child.

How many pleading letters do you think reps have piled on their desk like that to read?
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #66 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 4:28am
 
As an American (most of us) family living in Switzerland, where guaranteed social health care (compulsory) insurance is the norm for all citizens.

I have to say that it is not without flaws, probably big flaws. However I think that it is important that all people have the right for health care!

Link:The Swiss Healthcare System (2002) pdf.

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What is the right way? (I don’t know), every country / citizens have to determine what is the right way for its country / citizens…. I like it the way we have it in Switzerland……
but one has to be able to afford it…… and it is not inexpensive……
And it fits the mentality of the Swiss, self responsibility……. and accountability….. which allows the system to work somewhat very good…..

The Swiss system is not with out flaws, it is not with out a very high cost, the pdf. article I have attached to this post is from 2002, and the cost is now way higher..... and it is still going to get even higher.....  limitations to the full coverage are considered..... and probably implemented......
be it in complimentary medicine, alternative medicine, and other limitations.....

I have an opinion about the social health care in the USA and its plausibility, but I don’t live there at the moment, and don’t have to pay for it, so my opinion is somewhat semantic and most likely irrelevant...... and therefore I will avoid posting it (for the moment).....

Michael
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #67 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:41am
 
Kevin,

You still haven't given us the answer to the question WHO?

The preliminary CBO analysis of Universal Health Care a.k.a. "Kennedy’s Health Care Bill" that came out yesterday indicates it will result in a net increase in Federal deficits by $1 Trillion dollars for 2010 through 2019.  Please go to the following link for the full CBO estimate, download and read:

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If you read it carefully, the "Kennedy Bill"/"Affordable Health Choices Act" will cover 16 million presently uninsured folks for a Trillion Dollars over 10 years so the real expense is going to be much higher under Universal Health Care or the "health care exchange" as Obama now calls it to provide health care to the rest of the uninsured...  

If you do the math, that works out to over $60,000 per person over 10 years ($6,000 a year per person - That's more than three times what Joyce was paying for full coverage under Blue Cross/Blue Shield and if you add in long term care it's still a thousand dollars more a year.) just to get 16 million of the 47 million presently uninsured people covered with health care at our expense...  

What a deal!!!  But, as there's no Tort reform and you'll need start paying for it with increased taxes now so 20 years later... it might be a good deal... then again...  it might not...  That make sense????

BTW, Medicare is already rationing coverage for procedures and medications for some 83 million senior citizens 65 and older...  

I think you'll find the Medicare plan below that's already in process cuts more than 50% in home oxygen therapy coverage for over a million COPD sufferers by 2011, very illuminating... and they still don't cover oxygen therapy as a treatment for cluster headaches...

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What makes you think universal health a.k.a. Obama's "health care exchange" will be any better or that Joanie's gall bladder won't land her in the queue waiting behind all the illegal aliens for a government provided surgeon contracted at McDonald's wages from a 3rd world country?

Finally, you and I both know the only letter that crosses a congressman's desk and prompts any action is one that promises campaign donations or support for a pet earmark...  

However, having said that, when the idiots in Congress realize how pissed the voters are becoming over the horrific costs and loss of freedoms associated with this smelly mess, Obama's health care exchange, as briefed to the AMA yesterday, will go down the drain faster than a turd in Dina's Dumper...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #68 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 4:34pm
 
Quote:
how pissed the voters are becoming


It may also be coming to their attention that resistance and inability to change, yielding to the challenge, could have reps on the faster route to job seeking for the next few years.
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #69 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 6:00pm
 
Batch wrote on Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:41am:
... and they still don't cover oxygen therapy as a treatment for cluster headaches...


Are you sure about that?  Here is a link to the Health Alliance policy for oxygen ... it is a privately administered Medicare contractor that does allow for the use of oxygen in cluster headaches.

Quote:
2.2 Non-Continuous oxygen criteria (exercise, sleep, cluster headaches)
Note: Oxygen for “stand-by” or “PRN” use is not covered except for cluster headaches.

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It seems the biggest problem is that the doctors have not proclaimed oxygen a "medical necessity" loudly enough or often enough (rare disease, not enough research, etc). Sure, there are articles by respected specialists that state that oxygen should be on the first line of therapy, but that view is not universal.  A 2008 study written up in Medical News Today was titled "Oxygen Therapy Might Ease Pain Of Migraine, Cluster Headaches" (emphasis mine).  That article discusses a meta-analysis by the Cochrane bean-counters who proclaim themselves keepers of the 'evidence based' school of medicine, and they simply don't see enough evidence to make a really firm statement. Unfortunately, the so called 'evidence based' wonks seem to be able to sway opinion in the medical community more than people who actually know about clusters.  

Also, is this particular oxygen issue something that the magical free market has dealt with properly?  I don't think so.  Here's the policy from one Blue Cross organization:

Quote:
Oxygen therapy is considered medically necessary for:
...
2. Cluster headaches when other treatment fails.

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Sounds like you have to exhaust pretty much every pharmaceutical option before they consider it.

Regardless of who runs the insurance, there will always be rules to authorize some treatments and deny other forms of treatment - all insurance is about rationing.
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #70 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 6:32pm
 
Charlie wrote on Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:26pm:
Since 1929, in various forms, some health care assistance has at least been thought about. The Blues and other plans were non-profits at first for the most part and some mostly local plans did well. Today, Wall Street medicine is too big and the criminals that run things the Hospital Corporation Of America....some of them have records...just can't stand the idea of any form of government health care. You know how sweetly we have been treated by insurance companies over the years. Even doctors hate their arbitrary "guidlines." They are the ones that raid your hospital rooms to make sure you aren't staying an extra day. They threaten patients and doctors. One of their goals....and it is a serious one is to make childbirth a one day event and hopefully something not requiring an overnight stay. I kid you not.

These are the sweet and caring insurers of our health care. Oh, I trust them to watch out for us.............

Charlie

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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #71 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 6:38pm
 
OOPS. I was trying to modify spelling, not produce a quote. No mind though. My stuff is always gold. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Charlie
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #72 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 8:11pm
 
Lawyers. Tort Reform. Never happen. Money. Lobbies.

US citizens footing the bill for pharmaceutical R&D for the rest of the world. Money. Lobbies.

Insurance. Gate keepers. Money. Lobbies.

Medical Industry lowering costs. Money. See above. Lobbies.

Patients. Money machines. No lobbies.

The Government will make it right. Don't worry. It does so many things well.

Steve G
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #73 - Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:10pm
 
Yup. Almost as effective as unbridled free market health care solutions.

Charlie
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Re: Time For Critical Action
Reply #74 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 8:41pm
 
Here's Plan A, the one we have:

Quote:
Executives of three of the nation's largest health insurers told federal lawmakers in Washington on Tuesday that they would continue canceling medical coverage for some sick policyholders, despite withering criticism from Republican and Democratic members of Congress who decried the practice as unfair and abusive.

The hearing on the controversial action known as rescission, which has left thousands of Americans burdened with costly medical bills despite paying insurance premiums, began a day after President Obama outlined his proposals for revamping the nation's healthcare system.

An investigation by the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations showed that health insurers WellPoint Inc., UnitedHealth Group and Assurant Inc. canceled the coverage of more than 20,000 people, allowing the companies to avoid paying more than $300 million in medical claims over a five-year period.

It also found that policyholders with breast cancer, lymphoma and more than 1,000 other conditions were targeted for rescission and that employees were praised in performance reviews for terminating the policies of customers with expensive illnesses.

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I guess that's why they call it a 'health' plan - as long as you are healthy, you are welcome to make monthly payments. As soon as you get sick, you are no longer eligible.
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