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Does this sound ominous to you? (Read 22778 times)
Jonny
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #125 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 8:51pm
 
People are getting pissed!

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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #126 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 8:57pm
 
Ah…  Monty…  Well done.  Spoken like a true liberal…  Triangulation, obfuscation, misdirection, cover and deception…  Dayum…  you hit’em all.

Congress writes the laws...  or at least it did before comrade President Obama was elected... 

Your question infers most of the bad loans were made during President Bush’s two terms in office.  While this is true, I’m equally pissed at the Republicans in Congress for not being more forceful in trying to shut down the subprime practice in 2004 when the number of these toxic loans more than doubled.  However, your question begs the analogy that a mother’s stomach grows more rapidly in the 3rd trimester and that it achieves its greatest size at birth, but fails to acknowledge the fact that pregnancy began 9 months earlier.  

It’s a matter of public record that the spike in the number of these toxic subprime loans started in 2004 were Republicans raised the warning flags and didn’t start to decline until 2007.  Having said that, it’s also true that this social experiment in making loans to people who could not pay for them started during the Clintonista regime and that comrades Pelosi and Reid along with their respective politburo leaders, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, have continued to support this practice.

Moreover, the most powerful committees in Congress with the responsibility to oversee banking and housing were, and still are, under the leadership of none other than Barney Frank and Chris Dodd since 2006 yet the practice continued well into 2008.

As far as who and from what socioeconomic level took out these toxic subprime loans...  Wanting to live beyond means is an equal opportunity temptation...

Perhaps the following quotes and video will shed a little light on this topic.


Quote:

Thursday, October 2, 2008
Barney Frank: “I want to roll the dice”

Wall Street Journal (doing the legwork McCain can’t be bothered with) looks at what the Democrats said about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (circa 2003).

Greenspan outlines the risk of Freddie and Fannie:

“What we're trying to avert is we have in our financial system right now two very large and growing financial institutions which are very effective and are essentially capable of gaining market shares in a very major market to a large extent as a consequence of what is perceived to be a subsidy that prevents the markets from adjusting appropriately, prevents competition and the normal adjustment processes that we see on a day-by-day basis from functioning in a way that creates stability. . .”

“And so what we have is a structure here in which a very rapidly growing organization, holding assets and financing them by subsidized debt, is growing in a manner which really does not in and of itself contribute to either home ownership or necessarily liquidity or other aspects of the financial markets. . . “

Here are some of my favorite responses from the left side of the aisle:

Rep. Frank: “I do think I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness that we have in OCC [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] and OTS [Office of Thrift Supervision]. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing.

And:

Rep. Frank: “I believe there has been more alarm raised about potential unsafety and unsoundness than, in fact, exists.”

And:

Rep. Waters: “However, I have sat through nearly a dozen hearings where, frankly, we were trying to fix something that wasn't broke. Housing is the economic engine of our economy, and in no community does this engine need to work more than in mine. With last week's hurricane and the drain on the economy from the war in Iraq, we should do no harm to these GSEs. We should be enhancing regulation, not making fundamental change.

Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and in particular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines [who may or may not have been an advisor to Obama -ed]. Everything in the 1992 act has worked just fine. In fact, the GSEs have exceeded their housing goals. . . .

The following video lets you hear these words from Barney Frank and Maxine Waters for yourself…  It contains a more related clips here for good measure…  you be the judge…

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Hmm…  Ok…  If the truth about sub prime is too difficult to accept…  and I hate to resort to a jump bid of Five No Trump…  But could you please explain the liberal’s rationale for 50 million abortions here in the US since Roe vs Wade went into effect in 1973?

I welcome your comments.  I sense there is much upon which we can agree and that this thread with its differing viewpoints provides a healthy venue that will enable its readers and contributors an opportunity to better shape their opinions.

Take care,
V/R, Batch
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #127 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 9:02pm
 
Quote:
People are getting pissed!

Rightfully so:

Major stock market indexes fall to 1997 levels


Dow, S&P 500 fall to 1997 levels as sagging confidence pulls stocks lower; Dow falls 251

Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer
Monday February 23, 2009, 6:31 pm EST

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street has turned the clock back to 1997. Investors unable to extinguish their worries about a recession that has no end in sight dumped stocks again Monday. The Dow Jones industrial average tumbled 251 points to its lowest close since May 7, 1997, while the Standard & Poor's 500 index logged its lowest finish since April 11, 1997. It's as if the decade's dot-com surge, collapse and subsequent recovery never occurred.

The Dow is just over 100 points from 7,000. Both indexes have lost about half their value since hitting record highs in October 2007.

"People left and right are throwing in the towel," said Keith Springer, president of Capital Financial Advisory Services.

Investors pounded most financial stocks even as government agencies led by the Treasury Department said they would launch a revamped bank rescue program this week. The plan includes the option of increasing government ownership in financial institutions without having to pour more taxpayer money into them.

Although the government has said it doesn't want to nationalize banks, many investors are clearly still concerned that this could be a possibility as banks continue to suffer severe losses because of the recession. They're also worried that banks' losses will keep escalating as the recession sends more borrowers into default.

"The biggest thing I see here is the incredible pessimism," Springer said. "The government is doing a lousy job of alleviating fears."

The Treasury and other agencies issued a statement after The Wall Street Journal reported Citigroup is in talks for the government to boost its stake in the bank to as much as 40 percent. Analysts said the market, which initially rose on the statement, wanted more details of the government's plans.

"It's only a very partial picture of what we may get," said Quincy Krosby, chief investment strategist at The Hartford. "This proverbial lack of clarity is damaging market psychology."

Meanwhile, technology stocks fell after The Journal reported that Yahoo Inc.'s new chief executive plans to reorganize the company. But the selling came across the market as pessimism about the recession and its toll on companies deepened.

"There's no where to hide anymore," said Jim Herrick, director of equity trading at Baird & Co.

The market's decline extends massive losses from last week when the major stock indexes tumbled more than 6 percent. While falling to their 1997 levels, the major indexes plunged through the lows they reached in late November, at the height of the credit crisis.

"There's no main driver of the down day," said Ryan Detrick, senior technical strategist at Schaeffer's Investment Research. "There's just so much skepticism in the overall market and (the question is) is the government doing proper things to get us out of this problem. Obviously the stock market is voting no."

The Dow dropped 250.89, or 3.41 percent, to 7,114.78. It last closed this low on May 7, 1997 when it finished at 7,085.65. The Dow hasn't traded below the 7,000 mark since October 1997. The index is down 14 percent over the past 10 sessions.

The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 26.72, or 3.47 percent, to 743.33. It was the lowest close since April 11, 1997, when it ended at 737.65.

When the indexes were last at these levels, they were in their ascendancy, climbing amid the dot-com boom. But 1997 was also the year that saw stock prices later plunge amid a growing financial crisis in Asia. Far away from Wall Street, it was the year that the U.S. first heard the name Monica Lewinsky, whose relationship with President Bill Clinton led to his impeachment and trial. And it was the year that the world was stunned by the death of Britain's Princess Diana, on Aug. 31.

On Monday, the S&P 500 did close above its Nov. 21 trading low of 741.02. But the 14-month recession has decimated the major indexes: The Dow is down 49.8 percent from its record highs of October 2007, while the S&P 500 index is down 52.5 percent.

Detrick warned that a move below the S&P's Nov. 21 low could set off "violent selling" as even more confidence drains from the market.

The technology-laden Nasdaq composite index dropped 53.51, or 3.71 percent, to 1,387.72.

Investors looking for a bottom also dumped smaller stocks. The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 16.38 or 3.99 percent, to 394.58.

Declining issues outnumbered advancers by more than 6 to 1 on the New York Stock Exchange, where consolidated volume came to 6.35 billion shares compared with heavy volume of 8.12 billion shares on Friday.

Morgan Smith, investment counselor for Burns Advisory Group, said investors are now pushing out their expectations for a recovery in the industry until after this year.

"Everyone is trying to grasp at some type of bottom," Smith said. "The market is just trying to figure out if it has priced in a worst-case scenario."

Among tech stocks, Hewlett-Packard Co. fell $1.96, or 6.3 percent, to $29.28, and Intel Corp. dove 70 cents, or 5.5 percent, to $12.08.

Other big losers included General Electric Co., which dropped to a 14-year low of $8.80, but ended down 53 cents, or 5.7 percent, at $8.85. Aluminum producer Alcoa Inc. tumbled 48 cents, or 7.6 percent, to $5.81.

Some financial stocks managed to gain, including Citigroup, which rose 19 cents, or 9.7 percent, to $2.14, and Bank of America Corp., which gained 12 cents, or 3.2 percent, to $3.91.

Bond prices were mixed. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note, which moves opposite its price, fell to 2.76 percent from 2.79 percent late Friday. The yield on the three-month T-bill, considered one of the safest investments, rose to 0.29 percent from 0.26 percent Friday.

The dollar was mixed against other major currencies, while gold prices fell.

Light, sweet crude fell $1.59 to settle at $38.44 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Overseas, Britain's FTSE 100 fell 0.99 percent, Germany's DAX index fell 1.95 percent, and France's CAC-40 slipped 0.82 percent. Earlier, Japan's Nikkei stock average fell 0.54 percent.
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #128 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 9:08pm
 
Quote:
People are getting pissed!

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Yeah.  Um....

Quote:
Santelli: The government is promoting bad behavior because we certainly don‘t want to put stimulus forth and give people a whopping $8 or $10 in their check and think they ought to save it and in terms of modifications.


I listened to that, and had no idea what that means. So I looked up the transcript, which doesn't help at all.  Maybe Sarah Palin can figure it out for us.  Wink

Was watching Mad Money over the weekend, and Jim Cramer said a big cause of the Great Depression was that Hoover wouldn't act ... he didn't want to do anything that would reward deadbeats in any way. So he let the economy collapse. That really taught 'em!
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The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
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Jonny
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #129 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 9:16pm
 
monty wrote on Feb 23rd, 2009 at 9:08pm:
Quote:
People are getting pissed!

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Yeah.  Um....

Quote:
Santelli: The government is promoting bad behavior because we certainly don‘t want to put stimulus forth and give people a whopping $8 or $10 in their check and think they ought to save it and in terms of modifications.


Was watching Mad Money over the weekend, and Jim Cramer said a big cause of the Great Depression was that Hoover wouldn't act ... he didn't want to do anything that would reward deadbeats in any way. So he let the economy collapse. That really taught 'em!


You do have a link for that, right?
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #130 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 9:16pm
 
Redd wrote on Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:21pm:
Me either.  Can't afford cable anymore. Undecided


 PBS is a broadcast channel so you you can watch it free unless you live in an apartment and live where you need a big rooftop antenna to receive stations.

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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #131 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 9:29pm
 
Batch wrote on Feb 23rd, 2009 at 8:57pm:
Your question infers most of the bad loans were made during President Bush’s two terms in office.  While this is true, I’m equally pissed at the Republicans in Congress for not being more forceful in trying to shut down the subprime practice in 2004 when the number of these toxic loans more than doubled.  However, your question begs the analogy that a mother’s stomach grows more rapidly in the 3rd trimester and that it achieves its greatest size at birth, but fails to acknowledge the fact that pregnancy began 9 months earlier.  


The CRA was passed in 1977 - did it take the terms of Carter, Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush and Bush (30 years) for the baby to come to term?  I don't think so.

You still haven't explained how all the non-minority, non-poor got loans for more houses than they could live in without any sort of reasonable policies or verification of what they put on the application .... or the fact that most most private lenders that made the most egregious loans were not covered under the CRA at all.  Those aren't subprime loans, merely really bad loans.

Batch wrote on Feb 23rd, 2009 at 8:57pm:
Hmm…  Ok…  If the truth about sub prime is too difficult to accept…  and I hate to resort to a jump bid of Five No Trump…  But could you please explain the liberal’s rationale for 50 million abortions here in the US since Roe vs Wade went into effect in 1973?

Take care,
V/R, Batch


Why must you link everything in this thread to pregnancy?  

No, I don't care to muddle a discussion of economics with the issues related to abortion.  You can start your own thread on that - but don't expect me to read it or post there.  Cool
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #132 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 9:41pm
 
Quote:
You do have a link for that, right?


You betcha!  All of them.  Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink
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The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #133 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 10:10pm
 
Batch wrote on Feb 23rd, 2009 at 8:57pm:
Could you please explain the liberal’s rationale for 50 million abortions here in the US since Roe vs Wade went into effect in 1973?


Actually it's pretty easy to explain, but I'll leave it at that. Lips Sealed
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #134 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 10:35pm
 
Charlie wrote on Feb 23rd, 2009 at 12:36am:
Just out of curiosity, Batch: Has there ever been anything good at all ever done by a politician not part of your impression of Republican or conservative politics?

I'd like to know.

Charlie


Charlie, That’s an excellent question.  Thank you for the opportunity to respond…  

The simple answer is yes…  there have been some politicians past and present that have acquitted themselves with distinction doing far more good in elected office than not.  

Off the top, I’d say Presidents Lincoln and Truman made the best of terrible situations they faced by making the tough decisions to keep our great Nation united and free.  I consider them both Great Americans and two of my favorite Presidents.

Senators Henry M. "Scoop" Jackson and Warren G. Magnuson from the State of Washington were true anti-Communist Democrats that fought the evil empire of the USSR and helped build and maintain a strong Defense as called for in the Constitution.  Magnuson served in the United States Navy during World War II aboard the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise, seeing heavy combat in the Pacific Theatre.  Both were Great Americans and Great Senators!

I voted for both Jackson and Magnuson even though my family has been staunch members of the GOP since Lincoln was President.  

On the local level Joyce and I voted for Corey Stewart as Chairman of Prince William County Board of County Supervisors.  He is another great American and elected official.  In keeping with his first and foremost campaign promise, he passed a County Ordinance in 2007 allowing county law officers to strengthen its Zero Tolerance stand against illegal aliens.  

The ordinance passed on July 10th, 2007.  The initial enforcement came into effect on January 1 2008, and came into full enforcement on March 3rd, 2008.  The resolution empowers local police officers to inquire about the legal status of suspected illegal aliens when they are suspected of violating a local law or ordinance, expands the county's participation in the Section 287(g) Program, and restricts some taxpayer-funded public benefits from illegal aliens

When a vehicle is stopped for any violation of State vehicle law, PW Police do the standard “Wants & Warrants” and an automatic cross check of the driver’s license and vehicle registration along with another automated check for US Citizenship.  If the query response indicates a non-US Citizen status, the driver must produce a valid Green Card or Passport…  If vehicle operators are unable to produce a valid Green Card or Passport they are taken into custody and turned over to ICE within 12 hours for deportation.  Other vehicle occupants are subject to the same ordinance at the discretion of the arresting officer.

This ordinance went into effect on the 1st of January 2008.  In the last 10 days of 2007, over 500 homes were vacated as most of the occupants moved under cover of darkness from Prince William County to other “sanctuary” counties in Virginia and Maryland.  

Now here’s the real payoff and benefit to the citizens of Prince William County:

The DC Examiner reported in June, 2008 that crime decreased 22% in Prince William County (the largest crime reduction in seven years) while Fairfax County saw an increase of 6%. Murders were down in 2007 by 44% despite illegal aliens being responsible for five of the nine murders in 2007.

As of June 2008, The Prince William County Adult Detention Center had issued 816 immigration detainers under the Section 287(g) Program, and turned 740 criminal illegal aliens over to the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement for deportation since July of 2007.  These illegal aliens were arrested for crimes including attempted murder, cocaine possession, grand larceny, felony hit-and-run, shoplifting, assault, DUI, identify fraud and sexual abuse.

In addition to the identification of illegal aliens and crackdown on illegal alien criminal behavior, other significant public benefits have been observed.  These include the following:

   * Prince William County Schools reported a mid-year drop in ESOL enrollments that saves county taxpayers at least $6-12 million annually.  All jurisdictions surrounding Prince William County, including those that have seen a steady decline in student enrollments, are reporting significant increases in ESOL enrollments.  By May 1st of 2008, 1,200 ESOL students have been reported as transferring to other Northern Virginia jurisdictions, each of which costs taxpayers between $2,500 and $5,000 above the base student cost.  This does not include the number of students who have repatriated to their home countries. (source: DC Examiner)
   * The Town of Dumfries has reported that complaints of residential overcrowding have gone from over 80 annually to zero. (source: Manassas Journal-Messenger)
   * Prince William Hospital has indicated that the number of requests for prenatal care for the indigent has gone from over fifty a month to five. (source: Prince William Hospital)
   * The appearance of graffiti attributed to criminal gangs such as MS-13, Surenos-13 and the "South Side Locos" has dramatically reduced. (source: member reports)
   * Residential overcrowding in several neighborhoods in the Manassas area has abated significantly since enforcement of the Rule of Law Resolution began.  Complaints were down 62% in 2007 over 2006. (source: Prince William County Police Department)
   * Traffic safety has improved.  Alcohol-related fatal crashes were down 25% and vehicle accident fatalities are down 31%.  Total vehicle accidents are down 17.4%. (source: Prince William County Police Department)
   * As of November 30, 2008 Prince William County has detained 1,353 illegal aliens of which 1,269 have already been turned over to the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement for deportation.

The Rule of Law Resolution is yielding significant positive benefits for county taxpayers, the quality of life in our communities, and the safety and security of our families.

I think you’ll agree with the law-abiding residents of Prince William County that the results of this ordinance have been very positive and beneficial …

BTW, my neighbor Mulu and his wife Janet are naturalized US Citizens who emigrated legally from Ethiopia over 12 years ago.   Janet roasts up some great coffee and serves excellent Ethiopian meals…

Take care and thanks again for the great question.

V/R, Batch

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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #135 - Feb 23rd, 2009 at 10:43pm
 
Charlie wrote on Feb 23rd, 2009 at 12:36am:
Just out of curiosity, Batch: Has there ever been anything good at all ever done by a politician not part of your impression of Republican or conservative politics?

I'd like to know.

Charlie


I know it's not my opinion called for, but if I waited an initial newbie intro would be my only post.   Wink


In June '51 on the Senate floor, Joey McCarthy accused Gen. George C. Marshall as the principal culprit behind "A conspiracy so immense and an infamy so black as to dwarf any previous venture in the history of man."  Truman or Marshall would not answer directly, or "get down in the gutter with a gutter snipe."

The Pres held a meeting with some members of Congress and a handful of others about what to do.  Marshall, an architect of victory in WWII and central figure in anti-Communist actions 1945-51 had rejoined the administration Sep '50 as secretary of defense to help with problems of the Korean War.

I'd guess if someone reeeeeally wanted to see it, ANYONE can be denounced as comrade or not, friend or foe.  Kinda the sort of thing you see in Communist countries of the time.  

A certain wise and patient senator from TX told Truman to hold his fire, predicting McCarthy would overreach himself.  That opportunity arose years later in '54 when this same senator arranged a certain McCarthy hearing to be televised to a mass audience.  A spectacular display of self-destruction.





Senator:  LBJ


That might be an "anything".
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #136 - Feb 24th, 2009 at 9:08am
 
Wow Kev..... you're making me feel old. We had TV during the McCarthy hearings. I was too young to know what was going on of course. Kinda bled into the Kefauver hearings too.

It's a shame that abortion has become part of political debate. It's nearly done in politics.....as is displayed here. So much time and energy has been spent looking for acceptable socially correct politicians by pro-lifers, that it forces the Sara Palins of the world on serious politicians. McCain....if it weren't for the crash....might have had a shot if he hadn't had to deal with the now fading impact of social conservatives....at least among younger voters.... in the country. For the most part, the GOP uses them only to get elected. Abortion tends to be put on a back burner after November elections.

This depressing thing has affected the makeup of Congress in such a way that only "safe" debate on anything but social conversative programs is allowed......which brings out some awfully silly crap that has no business in Congress....and of course opening up as something common, the description of opponents as fascists or commies.

Bleaugh.

Charlie
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2009 at 9:10am by Charlie »  

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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #137 - Feb 24th, 2009 at 1:24pm
 
monty wrote on Feb 23rd, 2009 at 9:29pm:
No, I don't care to muddle a discussion of economics with the issues related to abortion.  You can start your own thread on that - but don't expect me to read it or post there.  


Sorry…  I know that’s hard to justify.  However, I’m still a little confused on where you stand on the cause of all of this so let’s get back on message with something closer to your strike zone.  Can you spin us some comments on the following two articles?

Thanks again,

V/R, Batch

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending


By STEVEN A. HOLMES
Published: September 30, 1999

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''

Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.

Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualify for a mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites.

Home ownership has, in fact, exploded among minorities during the economic boom of the 1990's. The number of mortgages extended to Hispanic applicants jumped by 87.2 per cent from 1993 to 1998, according to Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing Studies. During that same period the number of African Americans who got mortgages to buy a home increased by 71.9 per cent and the number of Asian Americans by 46.3 per cent.

In contrast, the number of non-Hispanic whites who received loans for homes increased by 31.2 per cent.

Despite these gains, home ownership rates for minorities continue to lag behind non-Hispanic whites, in part because blacks and Hispanics in particular tend to have on average worse credit ratings.

In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001, 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers. Last year, 44 percent of the loans Fannie Mae purchased were from these groups.

The change in policy also comes at the same time that HUD is investigating allegations of racial discrimination in the automated underwriting systems used by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to determine the credit-worthiness of credit applicants.

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Public funds to pay for private debt

Houston aims to clear balances so some can buy homes
By CAROLYN FEIBEL Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle
Feb. 23, 2009, 10:19PM

Houston taxpayers could start footing the bill to help first-time homebuyers pay off debts and improve their credit scores, under a proposal before City Council this week.

The “Credit Score Enhancement Program” will give up to $3,000 in grants to individuals who are trying to qualify for mortgages through the city’s homebuyers assistance program. City officials say some applicants fall short of eligibility by only 10 or 20 points on their credit scores, and paying off some debt balances can quickly improve their numbers.

The proposal has aroused critics who say the city should not use public funds to help people pay down car loans, credit card balances, or other debts — even if the slight credit bump would help them realize the dream of home- ownership.

“We just can’t give away government money to help people with their credit scores,” Councilman Mike Sullivan said Monday. “You’re giving them other taxpayers’ money to pay off the bills.”

Councilwoman Anne Clutterbuck called the program well intentioned but said it would go too far.

“If this credit crisis has taught us anything, we need to focus on paying off our debts and saving more,” she said. “Using government money to help someone pay off their debts is not the same as asking them to pay off their debts themselves.”

The $444,000 for the program is leftover money from a $1.5 million appropriation the city made for emergency home and roof repairs after Hurricane Ike.

The city has three programs that provide grants for down payments and closing costs for qualified homebuyers. The most generous one offers a $37,500 grant to buy a home that costs $135,000 or less, but only in certain disadvantaged Houston neighborhoods the city is trying to revitalize. Participants cannot earn more than 80 percent of the Houston median income.

Affordable housing advocates were cautiously optimistic about the proposal Monday. The tightening credit market has made it harder for previously qualified families to get mortgages, said Stephan Fairfield, president of Covenant Community Capital Corp., a Houston nonprofit that helps low-income families build assets.

Some banks previously had accepted credit scores of 580 or 600 as a qualifying threshold, but most are now requiring 620, Fairfield said.

“New tools are needed to help families move forward towards home ownership,” he said. “If there are lenders that are offering loan approvals subject to retiring the outstanding payables, or if there is something that can help them get over the credit score threshold, it certainly makes sense.”

John Henneberger, co-director of the Texas Low-Income Housing Information Service, called the Houston plan “a very aggressive approach” to housing assistance. He said he needed to know more details but ventured that it could work if the city provided a good pre-purchase homebuyer education program. The city requires all applicants to complete an educational program.

Henneberger said the subprime meltdown and global financial crisis has made housing advocates take a “more conservative tack.”

“We’ve certainly learned that we don’t do low-income people a whole lot of favors when we get them overly extended on credit.”
‘A bad idea’

Anti-tax activists also cited the harsh lessons of the housing crash and recession.

“I just don’t see any way someone could justify this with everything that has gone on in the credit market,” said Michael Quinn Sullivan, president of Texans for Fiscal Responsibility. “This is precisely what got us into it, with the playing fast and loose with the credit score.”

“One would think from the federal problem we’ve just had, the city of Houston officials would have learned from that,” said Peggy Venable, state director of Americans for Prosperity, a limited government advocacy group. “It’s a bad idea.”

Program backers defended the proposal, saying it certainly is not for people with poor or damaged credit.

“We don’t talk to them about this unless their credit score is pretty close,” said Brian Stoker, community banking manager for Amegy Bank. The bank is one of the lenders the city uses for its affordable-housing programs.

“For somebody who really qualifies and should have a home, it doesn’t take much to help them get there,” Stoker said. “I think it would be a really innovative and good program. And, of course, it’s not for everybody.”

The city made 130 grants to homebuyers last year and hopes to raise that to 540 in 2009, according to Juan Chavez, manager of the city’s Homebuyers Assistance Program.

“What we’ve seen is that $3,000 will increase a credit score significantly and relatively fast,” Chavez said.

Not every applicant will need that much, and the eligibility will be very strict, he added. “We wanted to be conservative in this case and concentrate only on those folks who have overextended as opposed to somebody who needed a lot of hand-holding to repair their credit.”

carolyn.feibel@chron.com

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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #138 - Feb 24th, 2009 at 2:50pm
 
As I have read the ebb and flow of this thread, I can't help but feel reaffirmed in my opinion that the Government has, and wants, us divided. To have the luxury of pointing to the other Party for all of the problems that are heaped upon the Citizens is divine. It is truly a world class work of art as is revealed in the distinct camps of thought contained in this small cross section of people.

What has it wrought? Continued divisiveness by corrupt oligarchy that truly believes it knows what's better for you and uses its power to enforce that belief upon you. Career politicians who are bought and paid for by lobbyist that are singular in their goal. And they keep getting reelected. Amazing!

But what really separates us? Why can we not land on reasonable Common Good? It's because we are divided. It's because we fight for a certain side and fail to explore and define the things we have in common. Those losers in Washington are ruining our lives and all they can do is continue to blame the other side. Folks...they are losers of a higher order. And, until we decide to stop watching and bitching about it from our petty liner thoughts, we will loose this Nation.

What do we have in common? Food, shelter health and security... that's about it. Are these concerns Republican or Democrat. No, but until we step away from where these losers want us corralled, we can only blame ourselves for the result. Are we so simple that we can believe only in a liberal or conservative bent? Are we that narrow?

Become active in Government affairs on every level. Become a smart voter and stay on the bastards until they get it. They have banked on you not doing so.

Happy Mardi Gras everyone.

Steve G
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #139 - Feb 24th, 2009 at 5:29pm
 
Actually.....and I really believe this: Most of these guys in Washington are decent sorts. They get stuck sometimes following ridiculous old ideas but most of the time they get somewhere back in the real world. Those that don't are either voted out eventually or wind up one of the old lunatic curmudgeons....there have been some truly bizarre characters over the years.

Anyway, lets hope these guys take some time to help the country rather than act like spoiled children. It is possible.  Undecided

Charlie  
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #140 - Feb 24th, 2009 at 6:04pm
 
While they're handing out bailout money in Washington, the Hopenchange administration is promising $900 million in American taxpayer money to bail out Gaza.

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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #141 - Feb 24th, 2009 at 7:00pm
 
Charlie, Steve,

Great comments!  Thank you both.  At the risk of over simplification, we live between the two truths in life, death and taxes.  After all, none of us are getting out of this alive...  

What we want, need, and hope for between these two realities is a reasonable quality of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as laid down in the Constitution.  

Unfortunately, standing around and complaining is not an option... My hope is we will be armed with knowledge and firm in our convictions when we step into the polling booth to cast our next vote...  and not swayed by a corrupt media with it's own agenda.  If we do this, we will all be better served.

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #142 - Feb 24th, 2009 at 8:06pm
 
A good site to get the low-down on our servants.  Check it out.

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SG
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Re: Does this sound ominous to you?
Reply #143 - Feb 25th, 2009 at 12:37am
 
Thanks for the Open Secrets thing. I forgot about it.

Makes ya cringe most of the time. Undecided

Charlie
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