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niva CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 6	CH's and radiowaves Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 12:08pm Hi, I live in India and have learnt from someone that radiowaves may be effecting the onset/intensity of CH's. My wife has a CH problem and the place where she works has a telecom tower very closeby. Further, she generally tends to have a lot more pain at work than otherwise. Do you guys have heard of radiowaves impacting CH?
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monty CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 1056 The Swamp, Florida	Re: CH's and radiowaves Reply #1 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 12:12pm There has been some research suggesting that electromagnetic radiation can reduce melatonin production, but the science is not settled yet. The largest/clearest disruptive factor is exposure to light at night.
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niva CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 6	Re: CH's and radiowaves Reply #2 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 12:18pm Thanks Monty. Do you mean that electromagnetic waves can be a cause for the onset/ worsening of CH's?
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monty

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Re: CH's and radiowaves
Reply #3 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 12:27pm

Potentially, although I think overall (to most people) this is not a big factor. Anything that disturbs melatonin production in the pineal gland will affect circadian cycles and could be a problem for cluster heads.

Normal people have an increase in melatonin at night - graphing out the production and concentration in the body, there is a hill or peak at night, and a valley in the day. People with clusters do not have a steep hill or a deep valley - it is flatter, or completely flat. We do not know why this is yet.

The results for emf and melatonin are not consistent - some studies have shown that emf might disrupt melatonin or have other effects, others do not show that. Also, distance is a big factor ... the intensity of these fields drops very fast as the distance increases. Someone who sat at the base of a large radio antenna for 8 hours might be affected, while those a few hundred meters away would not. And it is hard to separate out other factors at work that might be a problem - stress, mold in the air, working with flickering computer screen, etc.

Even a small amount of light hitting the eyes will cause the brain to stop making melatonin. That factor is clear. Electromagnetic fields? Maybe, for some people, but no certainty.

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« Last Edit: Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 12:30pm by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: CH's and radiowaves Reply #4 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 12:31pm Get her a tin foil hat. Paco's got a good one: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
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monty

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Re: CH's and radiowaves
Reply #5 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 12:37pm

I think it is a reasonable question - the person notices a pattern that clusters might be worse when at work near a radio tower, people have concerns about emf ... only natural to ask if there is a connection.

Here is one study that found that 900 MHz phone radiation increased nitric oxide in the sinuses ... which might tie into clusters, if that effect is consistently seen in people.

Of course, the frequencies of the different types of magnetic field may be important as to what part of the body (if any) it has an effect on.
Quote:

Otolaryngol Head Neck Surg. 2005 May;132(5):713-6.

Nitric oxide level in the nasal and sinus mucosa after exposure to electromagnetic field.

OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to examine the changes in nitric oxide (NO) level in the nasal and paranasal sinus mucosa after exposure radiofrequency electromagnetic fields (EMF). STUDY DESIGN AND SETTING: Thirty male Sprague-Dawley rats were randomly grouped as follows: EMF group (group I; n, 10), EMF group in which melatonin received (group II; n, 10) and the control (sham operated) group (group III; n, 10). Groups I and II were exposed to a 900 MHz. Oral melatonin was given in group II. Control rats (group III) were also placed in the tube as the exposure groups, but without exposure to EMF. At the end of 2 weeks, the rats were sacrificed, and the nasal and paranasal sinus mucosa dissected. NO was measured in nasal and paranasal mucosa. RESULTS: The nasal and paranasal sinus mucosa NO levels of group I were significantly higher than those of the control group (group III) ( P < 0.05). However, there was no statistically significant difference between group II and the control group (group III) regarding NO output ( P > 0.05). CONCLUSION: Exposure to EMF released by mobile phones (900 MHz) increase NO levels in the sinus and nasal mucosa. SIGNIFICANCE: Increased NO levels may act as a defense mechanism and presumably related to tissue damage. In addition, melatonin may have beneficial effect to prevent these changes in the mucosa.

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« Last Edit: Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 12:43pm by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: CH's and radiowaves Reply #6 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 12:53pm Personally, I don't think it's a factor but if she feels better away from work perhaps there's something else or even something to this. Charlie
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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: CH's and radiowaves Reply #7 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 1:02pm and clusters were here long before 900 Mhz phones.
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Potter

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Re: CH's and radiowaves
Reply #8 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 1:05pm

Some recommend simple designs. Some have put great (?) thought into the problem. But they think it is quite important that you wear your tin-foil hat. It would probably be unkind to describe these people as delusional, just as it would be unfair to think they probably vote Republican in a higher percentage than the population at large. So I will do neither. But, in case any of these Tin-Foil Hatters read this, I will point out that you might be inviting the very thing you wish to avoid. Researchers at MIT have discovered that tin-foil helmets may actually concentrate radio waves at frequencies assigned to the US government, the bands between 1.2 GHz and 1.4 GHz. They have pictures and everything. So, if you are wearing your tin-foil hat, maybe this is a good time to take it off.

You should never wear a tinfoil hat.

Kinder gentler Potter

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monty

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Re: CH's and radiowaves
Reply #9 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 1:16pm

Bob P wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 1:02pm:

and clusters were here long before 900 Mhz phones.

Clusters were also here long before gasoline fumes, Old Spice aftershave, purified monosodium glutamate, and Captain Morgan's spiced rum. Does your time-line analysis prove that it is impossible for such things to make the cluster pain worse for some?

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Racer1_NC

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Re: CH's and radiowaves
Reply #10 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 1:18pm

monty wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 1:16pm:

Bob P wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 1:02pm:

and clusters were here long before 900 Mhz phones.

Clusters were also here long before gasoline fumes, Old Spice aftershave, purified monosodium glutamate, and Captain Morgan's spiced rum.

Indeed.....and all those things can be triggers for some. I discount nothing when dealing with CH.

Modified to expand on my thoughts.

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« Last Edit: Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 1:24pm by Racer1_NC »

“We see what we believe, not the other way around." — Varga

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Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: CH's and radiowaves Reply #11 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 2:22pm I'll focus on the question: Quote: Do you guys have heard of radiowaves impacting CH? No.
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john_d

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Re: CH's and radiowaves
Reply #12 - Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 4:10pm

You are probably thinking EMF in general. Possible but unlikely, I work for a communications company and we have all kinds of stuff radiating around here and I have not noticed any difference between at work and home. As matter of fact, I have only ever been hit at home at nighttime, I live out in the boonies.

I did find this, it mentions cell phone frequencies potentially messing with brain activity...

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ANNSIE

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Re: CH's and radiowaves
Reply #13 - Mar 3^rd, 2009 at 2:17pm

Radio frequency may have some subtle influence on some people but I have not observed or heard of it causing a big difference.

You said your wife has a lot more pain at work than at home.

My bet would not be on radio wave but other factors, such as stress at work or heat or even simply exertion, maybe allergy too. These things have been known to worsen CH more universally than a nearby radio tower.

What work does your wife do ?

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Opus

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Re: CH's and radiowaves
Reply #14 - Mar 3^rd, 2009 at 8:18pm

Potter wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2009 at 1:05pm:

<snip>Tin-Foil Hatters read this, I will point out that you might be inviting the very thing you wish to avoid. Researchers at MIT have discovered that tin-foil helmets may actually concentrate radio waves at frequencies assigned to the US government, the bands between 1.2 GHz and 1.4 GHz. They have pictures and everything. So, if you are wearing your tin-foil hat, maybe this is a good time to take it off.

You should never wear a tinfoil hat.

Kinder gentler Potter</snip>

That study was false in the fact that they used aluminum foil instead of the proper tin foil. Since aluminum and tin have completely different properties, and they cannot be considered the same. Unfortunately tin foil is unavailable, even on E-bay. There was a post here about using anti-static bags. A large one should be able to be fashioned into a government ray blocking hat. Further testing is needed.

Paul Smiley

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I no longer post because no one cares what I say.

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