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Swine Flu anyone? (Read 8457 times)
stevegeebe
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #25 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 7:38pm
 
Wonder how many people died today in car accidents while dialing their cell phones...?  How many per month...how many per year?

Steve G
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Grandma_Sweet_Boy
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #26 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 8:11pm
 
My company put out an email today saying if anyone had just returned from Mexico they were to take a week off before returning to the office.  It will be with pay.

Carol
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #27 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 8:17pm
 
Grandma_Sweet_Boy wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 8:11pm:
My company put out an email today saying if anyone had just returned from Mexico they were to take a week off before returning to the office.  It will be with pay.

Carol

What company would that be, Carol? The one that you own? Because I seem to remember you retired a little while back....

Hmmmm.....

Wink
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Jackie
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #28 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 8:18pm
 
We had a confirmed case here in Indiana today.  A Notre Dame student in South Bend.  That's only about 30 minutes from us.  They can't figure out where he picked it up as he hadn't been off campus for several weeks.  So far it's the only case.

Let's hope this thing doesn't turn into what they think it might.
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #29 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 8:29pm
 
The plant I work in just ordered over $2K worth of hand sanitizer for desks, hand sanitizer refills to be used in the dispensers we installed all over the plant, more dispensers, and antibacterial wipes to be used in the break areas, due to swine flu. They also cleaned me out of all forms of sanitizer I had in stock today.

I had to place an order with my supplier, and they told me to write SWINE FLU on my purchase order before I sent it, and they'd get it out right away.

The plant is stopping all trucks coming in and asking the drivers if they've been in Mexico in the last 10 days. If so, they are being turned away.

They are also not allowing anyone in the plant who has been to Mexico in the last 10 days, if they have business with someone in the plant, they are expected to do it on the phone in the foyer(s). If any employees have been to Mexico, they are being sent home.

Posters from the CDC on hand washing and using the hand sanitizer have appeared everywhere overnight. They are taking this seriously.
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #30 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 8:45pm
 
I still don't get it. I heard that hand sanitizer, while doing a good number on bacteria, doesn't kill the H1N1 influenza virus. The report I heard was that only vigorous hand washing will do the trick.
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #31 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 8:51pm
 
Panic!!!
run for the hills, well i would if it wasn't reported there were cases in Derbyshire.Are there any more hills out there,
"Swine flu", pigs fly, they're not kidding us??
Last time I saw pigs fly was at the end of a bottle
Shouldn't joke should I.
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #32 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 9:12pm
 
[/quote]
But I thought it was a virus we were concerned about here - not bacteria.
[/quote]


sorry brew...in a hurry (logged in at work and not supposed to be)...bacteria AND viruses...

BTW, since I have more time now...a few soapbox comments:

given the CHOICE between soap and water or alcohol sanitizer for hand cleaning, I HIGHLY recommend the soap and water (minimum 20 secs of VIGOROUS scrubbing, hand over hand not piston-like, even better, add a fingernail brush too). A good way to gauge time is to sing the Happy BD song twice...

Basis of my opinion:

hand washing AND towel drying (and nail brush scrubbing)  removes bacteria/viruses by emulsion and friction, alcohol gels smear them around...

alcohol dries the skin, leading to cracks and fissures where bugs can grow unimpeded...

alcohol gels kill bad AND good bugs alike ...and that's definitely NOT a good thing. The human skin is populated by millions of bacteria which are ESSENTIAL to maintaining health...they out-compete the bad ones that can come along. Remove too many and anything that comes along can grow...

as long as I'm at this...I would also suggest just plain regular soap. The new antibacterials (w/triclosan) have been shown in studies to be no more effective than regular soap. The concern is that bacteria will develop an immunity...and that there is REAL scary...

Best,

Jon
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #33 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 9:26pm
 
jon019 wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 9:12pm:
as long as I'm at this...I would also suggest just plain regular soap. The new antibacterials (w/triclosan) have been shown in studies to be no more effective than regular soap. The concern is that bacteria will develop an immunity...and that there is REAL scary...


Like the antibiotic resistant staph infections found mainly in hospitals . . . . . scary indeed!

Not to be snide, but isn't ALL soap by its very nature anti-bacterial?  I've never heard of one that was purported to be pro-biotic . . . .  Roll Eyes
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #34 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 10:01pm
 
Mosaicwench wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 9:26pm:
jon019 wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 9:12pm:
as long as I'm at this...I would also suggest just plain regular soap. The new antibacterials (w/triclosan) have been shown in studies to be no more effective than regular soap. The concern is that bacteria will develop an immunity...and that there is REAL scary...


Not to be snide, but isn't ALL soap by its very nature anti-bacterial?  I've never heard of one that was purported to be pro-biotic . . . .  Roll Eyes



NOT snide at all...a VERY good question...and the answer is surprisingly NO! Bacteria can live just fine and dandy on your "clean" soap. Which is why your soap dish should have one of those pointy scalp scrub looking thingies to let it DRY... the bugs hate THAT...
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #35 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 10:45pm
 
Well I just learned all kinds of stuff tonight. Gonna go wash my hands.

Looks like the students picked a bad time to go to Mexico on spring break.
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #36 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 10:47pm
 
PL259 wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 7:09pm:
The national media reports it has located case number "0".
Computers use the binary system of 1 and 0. Now they have the same value. No mathematical formula is now valid.
JIm


Computers and people who program them usually start counting with 0 (zero) as it is the first digit in our decimal counting system. This seems to have rubbed off on the scientists that use the same counting method now. Zero means "nothing" in math but is the first digit in our number system so starting with 0 in a count is valid.

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icedragon
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #37 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 10:51pm
 
Mosaicwench wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 6:53pm:
Quote:
The 37,000 people you mention are typically elderly and/or immunodeficient.  


Huh?  

37,000 people (perhaps elderly or immune-suppressed, demographics unknown to me ) still died from flu related complications last year.  Are you saying that since they might have been elderly or immune-suppressed that they are somehow less than human? That no one mourned their passing?  That they were somehow less valued than the young and the healthy?

Dead is dead.  There is no qualifier.


Really?  That is what you took from that?

You mentioned people don't give a hoot.  I was pointing out that people actually do give a hoot, but they are probably making a bigger deal out of this for the reasons I already mentioned.  

You are taking one line out of my statement, and using it out of context.  You were the one that implied nobody gave a hoot, Right?
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icedragon
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #38 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 11:12pm
 
Brew wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 8:45pm:
I still don't get it. I heard that hand sanitizer, while doing a good number on bacteria, doesn't kill the H1N1 influenza virus. The report I heard was that only vigorous hand washing will do the trick.


I am not saying that it is wrong, but I am curious to whom you heard say this?  Of course, washing your hands is going to be better, but the CDC is saying that alcohol based sanitizers are also effective.  

There are also products out there that have pretty convincing studies on the effectiveness of such sanitizers against a variety of viruses, such as this one: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
Not saying that this one is effective against swine flu but just curious...

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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #39 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 11:35pm
 
Whatever happened to Mad Cow disease or the Bird Flu?
Why do we sit around worrying ourselves sick over something we have no control over?

              Potter
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #40 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 5:29am
 
Jimi wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 10:45pm:
Well I just learned all kinds of stuff tonight. Gonna go wash my hands.

Looks like the students picked a bad time to go to Mexico on spring break.


The're walking Pitri dishes I tell ya!  Want to spread something you have an absolute perfect delivery system in the college students!   Shocked

-P.
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #41 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 6:13am
 
So far here in Finland we can feel quite safe: two suspected patients, no panic and the government has promised that we already have the plenty of necessary treatments in stock.

But we are, naturally, following what is going on around us and hope that the two current "maybe" patients will have only regular flu.

I, for one, am down with regular cold and allergies - for the first time since Spring 2000. Although this has been the worst flu I've ever had, it's nothing in comparison to the swine flu, so my thoughts certainly are with those who suffer from that.

Sanna
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #42 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 8:23am
 
I have three courses of Tamiflu on hand.

So... while you folks are hunkered down in your basements during the worst of it, my family and I will be walking among the infected undead with impunity.

We will bring you our leftover Chinese if we go out to eat, being careful to not let the zombies in.
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #43 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 8:35am
 
Quote:
Mosaicwench wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 11:41am:
Every year in America, 37,000 people die of Flu related complications.

Nobody seems to give a hoot about that until they name it something new and different - or in this case something recycled.  The swine flu last went around with gusto in the 70's.




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I believe the difference here is that this version of the flu is attacking and killing young healthy people.  The 37,000 people you mention are typically elderly and/or immunodeficient.  This strain also has no vaccinations available as of yet, which is why people are giving more of a hoot about this than the usual push to get vaccinated.  I don't think being overly cautious is a bad thing.  I think people are just being proactive in their approach to this trying to prevent it from becoming something more.  What is the harm in that?

Thomas


Any data to back the bolded statement up?  Yes, young *healthy* (and how do we know that they were healthy) people are getting the virus, but dying?  Where did you find this information?  BTW, in any particular flu season, young healthy people can get the flu if they are not immunized.

WHO has not raised the alert to pandemic as of this morning.  They are now at stage 5, which is still one level below being pandemic.

Hand sanitizers do work.  The hand sanitizer I use has aloe in it and does not cause drying or chapping.  Hell, I'm a merchandiser in Wal Mart, there is no possible way that I can stop every few minutes and go wash my hands.  BTW, overwashing of the hands will also cause dry, chapped hands.

And I stand corrected about adding the vaccine to the currect flu shot.  If developed in time, it probably would be added.  PL259 was kind enough to correct my misassumption  Grin.
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #44 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 9:36am
 
One theory as to why the elderly are not getting hit is due to similarities between this flu and the 1957 pandemic.  Older folks may have some immunity to this strain.  I do not understand that, as 1957 was an H2N2. 

The broad reaction to any variant of Swine Flu (1976, 2009) is attributed to similarity of the Swine Flu virus to the 1918 Spanish Flu virus, which killed 50million.  Both are H1N1's.   

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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #45 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 9:48am
 
First, let me just say, I don't think anyone here is "panicking", or "buying into" anything.  I do think, however slanted the media may be, it's important to pay attention and stay on the alert to what is being said, filter at your own discretion if you will.

As far as what Icedragon said (Thomas), there are many reports, on radio and internet that allude to what he suggested, here are a few:

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Also, this year's flu vaccine offers no protection against swine flu, to which people have no natural immunity. And unlike seasonal flu, which typically affects the very old and very young, initial reports from Mexico suggested that swine flu was affecting young, healthy people.

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Investigators also want to know why the disease has killed young adults, who should have the greatest resistance.

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That’s what investigators from the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control are investigating very actively, because a lot more needs to be understood about the deaths before we can understand the threat. The age of the victims has been reportedly been people in their 20s, 30s and 40s, which is one of the most frightening things about it, because flu usually strikes and kills the very old and frail, and sometimes the very young. In 1918, the ultimate pandemic we know about killed healthy young adults. That’s one of the reasons why this outbreak is potentially frightening. We still have to understand more

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Swine flu and deaths in healthy adults--cytokine storm?
Category: General Epidemiology • General biology • Infectious disease • Influenza • Outbreak • Public health • Various viruses
Posted on: April 26, 2009 9:00 AM, by Tara C. Smith
Over the last 24 hours, I've received a few comments and even more emails asking about or discussing the possibility of a "cytokine storm" triggered by the H1N1 swine flu reassortant. Is this what's happening in the cases from Mexico? Discussion after the jump...
Let me begin with a bit of background on what's meant by a "cytokine storm." In response to infection, the body has a number of ways to fight back against the invading microbe. Cytokines are one part of this defense. These are molecules produced by a number of different types of cells in response to infection that act as signals to other cells in the body--telling them to divide, or to produce certain proteins, or to cease their production. They assist, basically, in orchestrating portions of the immune response. A "cytokine storm" occurs when this regulation goes haywire--the very molecules that are supposed to be protecting the body end up causing it harm by responding too strongly to the infection. (Note that this is quite over-simplified; the cytokine response itself is incompletely understood, and other players in addition to cytokines are also involved).

[See each link for the complete stories]

This last "story" from a science blog, was also brought up in completely separate radio report by 1010WINS in NY this morning.  Interestingly, my daughter is studying this in science class, and wondered a theory on it last night.  There seems to be a combination of factors that are being discussed in ref. to why the Mexican citizens are being affected more severely.  

By the way, it wasn't college students that went to Cancun, St. Francis Prep is a Catholic Preparatory High school.  

Pepp
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #46 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 11:34am
 
My nurse relatives say that often the filthiest thing in a bathroom is a bar of soap. Use the liquid, I guess.

Charlie
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #47 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 11:43am
 
Potter wrote on Apr 29th, 2009 at 11:35pm:
Whatever happened to Mad Cow disease or the Bird Flu?
Why do we sit around worrying ourselves sick over something we have no control over?

              Potter


Mad Cow disease was brought under control after it induced fatal CJD in 164 Brits.  We actually do have control over that - not as individuals, but as a society.  Culling infected animals and ending cow cannibalism ended that episode.

Bird flu is still simmering - might go pandemic any time. Again, as individuals, we can't do more than not kissing parrots (whenever possible). But as a society, research and changes to agriculture (including vaccinating poultry on farms) ... that can save lives.
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The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #48 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 12:19pm
 
I think this might be the study on soap and water vs. alcohol gel that has been bandied about:

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As I read it, both soap and hand gels are very effective at reducing the number of active viruses on the hands.  The study said soap was technically the winner, but the difference is not really important ... all of the hygiene measures resulted in complete inactivation of the virus.  It is not surprising that people using the gels had slightly more virus DNA remaining on their hands- the gels killed the virus in place, while the soap/water treatment led to more being removed.

Bottom line - both soap and gels are effective.

Also, the idea that soap bars can contain bacteria is true, but it is unlikely to be a problem - the soap neutralizes most bacteria (and probably viruses, which are generally more fragile than bacteria).

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« Last Edit: Apr 30th, 2009 at 12:21pm by monty »  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
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Re: Swine Flu anyone?
Reply #49 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 1:15pm
 
Either - soap or gel - beats the livin' shit out of that guy in the public restroom who does his thing and doesn't wash his hands.

And believe me, ladies - more of that guy exists than you would even want to think about.
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