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marijuana debate on cnn (Read 3661 times)
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marijuana debate on cnn
Jun 17th, 2009 at 9:36pm
 
the major opponents of legalized marijuana are anheuser busch, dupont, and all major drug companies. these are the corporations that pay for those partners for a drug free America. corporatism at its finist

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no matter what your political views are many of you have a great deal of admiration for these pioneers of the american dream.
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #1 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 9:54pm
 
I don't have a huge problem with legalizing pot, but we need to pass and enforce tougher drunk driving laws first. Driving under the influence of any mind altering substance needs to have much lower legal thresholds, and pot would need to be included in that.
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #2 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 11:33pm
 
Brew wrote on Jun 17th, 2009 at 9:54pm:
I don't have a huge problem with legalizing pot, but we need to pass and enforce tougher drunk driving laws first. Driving under the influence of any mind altering substance needs to have much lower legal thresholds, and pot would need to be included in that.


i totally agree. i advocate the legalization not because of the the buzz but because of it vast benefits and uses. dupont is worried about the strengths of hemp givinf them some competition. anheuser busch doesn't what it legal because the thing they will sell less beer. prescription drug don't like it for all sorts of reasons. these are just a small few of corpatons that lobby to keep it illeagal.

think of all millions of $$$ of tax dollar money spent on this mexican drug war. this money is spent to protect the profits of major corporations. 

pot is as easy to grow as tomatoes. its not like mexico is the only place pot will grow yet it moves thousands of miles out across our highways and by ways by smugglers and thugs. if legalized these thugs would be out of a job.  if you didn't want to grow it you could buy it at a tobacco store in town and pay taxes on it. your not allowed to walk into a tobacco shop unless your 18 

keep in mind i'm not talking about coke or meth. i specifically mean marijuana.
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #3 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 2:43am
 
Legalizing drug abuse is like letting the population drink (alcohol) with out limits!
as long as we globally can not contain drunk driving, and we do (in most countries)
have very strong laws, and yet still have a growing abuse, especially in the youth!
Why to add another component, that is a dangers, for recreational use
and in combination with alcohol even more so!

As for medical use, yes..... but then as a prescription drug, and that will make it one more
substance that is controlled by the pharma industry, and the price will rocket sky high, it will
need to get all the approvals, tested and that is very costly.........

selling the drugs over the counter will be a card blanch for abuse.......  

I just don’t see how can the law and law enforcement control abuse,  as perverted as it is
I would rather have a safer streets, and highways, then legalize the substances....
I do not want to see my kids killed by a drug (cannabis) user killed, driving under intoxication!

and yes I do (know) with that stance condemn some to suffering, and deny some from a possible
cure, or at least a better quality of life........

As long as we as a society can not control efficiently the abuse of intoxicating substances that
are legal, namely alcohol, I object strongly to add even more loos cannons on the population!

And to the Parma industry.... yes drugs are very costly, and the pharma giants do control the
markets, that is part of the globalization we all (most of us) promoted.....
BUT! the cost of research is not the only reason for the high cost...... it is the very high (over priced)
complicated certification process cost that is caused by governments! and there are more resons for
the high cost.... but that is a political / Governmental issue....!!!


I am very grateful to the pharma industry...... I have Zomig nasal (treptan), lithium, Verapamill
Bon Viva......  and with all that I can, and do, have a very high quality of life......

Micahel
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #4 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 10:08am
 
marijuana is not comparable to alcohol. if your high on pot and you get pulled over by the police theres no test they can give you to find out if your high at that specific time unlike alcohol.

as far as abuse goes you can smoke it and smoke it. its not going to get you any higher unlike oxycontin, percusets, or methadone. all of which are used for recreation. all of which have do far worse damage to the body than marijuana. and as far as i can see marijuana is far less addictive than rx pain killers by a long shot and cheaper for those of us without insurance.

edited to add: marijuana has already been tested. trouble is that people doing the testing are the people that would lose profits if it legalized.

keep in mind this is something that used to grow wild and plentiful in many parts of north america.
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #5 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 2:49pm
 
I do not say that all the substances you have listed are ok or not….. I don’t know, will have to look it up..... which I will do later.....
All I say is that Canabis is a drug!!! and cannabis has psychoactive and physiological effects when consumed. The minimum amount of THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol the main psychoactive substance found in the Cannabis) required to have a perceptible psychoactive effect is about 10 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. Aside from a subjective change in perception, the most common short-term physical and neurological effects include increased heart rate, lowered blood pressure, impairment of psychomotor coordination, concentration, and short-term episodic and working memory. Long-term effects are less clear.
And with all the attributes listed, cannabis is a drug, and should not be legalized..... unless as I said before..... used as medical substance subject to prescription, and then it will not be inexpensive..... it will be rather expensive.... due to all the reasons that other drugs are expensive...... and I gave a few reasons in my previous post.....

Micahel
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #6 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 3:03pm
 
I tried one marijuana cigarette one time in my life. It was supposedly "very good stuff" gotten for me by a Vietnam Vet friend who knew about that stuff. I was 33 years old, married, with two small children at that time. Why? Because I wanted to see what all the hoopla was about. I smoked it and fell asleep. That's all. I mean, WTF was all the hullaballoo about?

I'm all for legalizing pot, but controlled the sale, just like cigarettes and alcohol. Buy it at the grocery store, just like cigarettes and beer, or make it even harder to buy - control the purchase to state run stores just like liquor stores.

The government can tax the heck out of it and make some money that they can then spend on trying to get a grip on the "war on the big drugs" like cocaine, heroin, meth, etc

Right now, people can make their own beer, wine, and even booze for personal consumption, but will get arrested if they try to sell it. Make growing pot with sale and distribution of it a felony with mandatory jail time.  You could grow your own, but for personal consumption only.

Pot is like alcohol. In most cases, one drink will not make you drunk, get behind the wheel and kill someone. One joint also, again in most cases, will not cause the driver to be incapacitated. Those that drink too much, or smoke too much will.  I agree that there are those who will and do abuse pot, just as there are those that will and do abuse alcohol. Both are hazards on the roads, and cause heartache to their families and to those they harm.   Certainly if someone could invent the breathalizer for alcohol, they should be able to invent a roadside test for drugs. 

Driving laws as they are now are not stiff enough for drunk drivers.  Laws should be strengthened in any case, can be expanded to treat pot abusers the same way they treat drunk drivers.

Given the fact that marijuana has been shown to help alleviate the pain and suffering of some horrible diseases, making those who grow and use their own criminals, I think is a travesty.

Sandy


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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #7 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 3:24pm
 
Michael,

You're fears of rampant abuse are unfounded.  In countries where pot is legalized (semi-legalized) none of these problems have surfaced.  In fact, usage among teens has dropped, not increased.

Alcohol is far more dangerous, addictive, and deadly.  It is literally impossible to overdose on marijuana.  We see students die every year from alcohol poisoning or drunk driving.

Here in California, we have 'medical' marijauna.  The system is a joke as anybody can get a prescription.  I haven't heard or seen of any rampant increase in abuse.  Some cities are getting $millions in new tax revenue from it.

I have witnessed people in my life be completely destroyed by alcohol and prescription drugs.  I have never seen someone whose life was ruined by abusing pot.

I would argue that it has the ability to enhance performance in some areas.  I smoked a lot back in the day when I was a computer programmer.  I have won several awards based on ideas that only came to me when I was stoned.  I have made computers 'do the impossible', and found it greatly enhanced my problem solving ability.  I invented products that changed industry.  One of my product lines just sold for almost $300M (not to me, sadly)

I would advocate legalization as long as it fell under the same kinds of rules we have for alcohol.  Keep it away from kids, restrict where it can be used, tax the hell out of it, and everybody wins.  Except the pharmaceuticals...

-Shawn



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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #8 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 5:56pm
 
Ahh Ha!

Well...  If Obamacare gets passed, and smoking MJ is a bad habit, you'll be forced to pay more for your Obamacare health insurance....  Crap!  What am I saying....  We'll be paying for your bad habit... Howz that?  Screwed up as Hogan's Goat!

BOHICA

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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #9 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 6:15pm
 
Smoking Pot must be a Senatorial past time...  With 5 versions of ObamaCare floating around the Senate...  New road signs are already starting to sprout...

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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #10 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:18pm
 
I have some new neighbors down the block and I'm trying to figure out why they have bedspreads over the windows but 8 foot florescent lights running 24 hours a day in a vacant second floor apartment.

Seems interesting to me. I wonder what else may be brewing?

Charlie
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #11 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:21pm
 
wildhaus wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 2:49pm:
I do not say that all the substances you have listed are ok or not….. I don’t know, will have to look it up..... which I will do later.....
All I say is that Canabis is a drug!!! and cannabis has psychoactive and physiological effects when consumed. The minimum amount of THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol the main psychoactive substance found in the Cannabis) required to have a perceptible psychoactive effect is about 10 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. Aside from a subjective change in perception, the most common short-term physical and neurological effects include increased heart rate, lowered blood pressure, impairment of psychomotor coordination, concentration, and short-term episodic and working memory. Long-term effects are less clear.
And with all the attributes listed, cannabis is a drug, and should not be legalized..... unless as I said before..... used as medical substance subject to prescription, and then it will not be inexpensive..... it will be rather expensive.... due to all the reasons that other drugs are expensive...... and I gave a few reasons in my previous post.....

Micahel


have you ever tried it?
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #12 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:32pm
 
Charlie wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:18pm:
I have some new neighbors down the block and I'm trying to figure out why they have bedspreads over the windows but 8 foot florescent lights running 24 hours a day in a vacant second floor apartment.

Seems interesting to me. I wonder what else may be brewing?

Charlie


out where i live its grown in the corn fields. the people that grow it are clean cut hard working farmers. the deputies went to school with the farmers. most of them go to the same church. every year thiers something in the paper about 1000s of pounds confiscated out in the fields. they never mention that they were confiscated after the beds were harvested.

if legalized the # of creepy neighbors with the sheets on the windows would drop. may see an increase in greenhouses though.
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #13 - Jun 19th, 2009 at 1:12am
 
Shawn wrote on Jun 18th, 2009 at 3:24pm:
I would advocate legalization as long as it fell under the same kinds of rules we have for alcohol.  Keep it away from kids, restrict where it can be used, tax the hell out of it, and everybody wins.  Except the pharmaceuticals...

-Shawn



LOL, is that your conservative approach? 

Those damn liberals got you talkin just like them, Bro.
Wink

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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #14 - Jun 19th, 2009 at 2:08am
 
Just when you think you have me pigeonholed...

edited to add, I don't think my stand is inconsistent with conservative principles.  Conservative != Republican and conservative != religious right.

If I had to put a label on it, I would call myself a constitutionalist conservative.
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #15 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 4:28am
 
No! I did not use cannabis!!!

I don’t believe that trying and experiencing is the only way to know or learn.....
I rather believe in: “Who is a wise man? He who learns of all men.” (Talmud)
I take the experience of others and try to educate my self..... I have seen
and heard about abuse, or just casual use of cannabis...... and I have made an
educated evaluation..... and formed my believes.....

one can trivialize and belittle the use, and most likely along the way abuse of cannabis, one can try and propitiate, to seek excuses…… it does not validate or facilitate the fact  that cannabis is  not a drug, that can, and does cause harm…. effects ones judgment, and therefore is a potential risk…. be it on the road, or in other situations that might harm the surroundings……

it was suggested to create stores, such as liquor stores to market cannabis…. do controlled sales at liquor stores prevent alcoholism?……  or drunk driving?…..

It is an illusion to advocate the use of cannabis, stating that marketing cannabis in controlled stores can, and will prevent abuse.....

Cannabis in the USA (as in Switzerland) is very widely used.... the “war” in Mexico proves that cannabis is a “commodity” that is much desired and very demanded.....

We as a society do not need one more legalized substance that brings with it misery
in most cases....
or believe that by legalizing the use and trade of cannabis will reduce the abuse....
or reduce the price....
It will only validate and facilitate the trading of a harmful substance.....

Cannabis for medical use..... yes! as a prescription drug, as any other drug on the market.... but the price will not be cheep...  so what did we achieve.....  one more medical substance highly priced by the Pharma industry…. high price dictated by over regulation and greed!

Since the late 1960s, consumption of hard and soft drugs is a much discussed topic. The most widespread is the use of cannabis.
In a global comparison, Switzerland is among the countries with the highest cannabis use, together with Britain and the United States.

Approximately one fifth of 15 to 64-year-olds have at least once in their life smoked hemp and about a quarter of whom were regular cannabis users. This corresponds to between 500,000 and 600,000 people annually about one hundred tons of hashish and marijuana use.

The consumption of soft drugs among Swiss youngsters’ 11 to 15 years, however, according to a survey by the Federal Office of Public Health in 2006, after a peak in 2002. The 15-year-old gave 34% of boys and 27% of the girls at least once to have smoked cannabis. Four years earlier, there were still 26% or 37% of the alleged, at least once in their lives, to have smoked cannabis a deference of 1%, but still about
1/3 of the youngsters are familiar with the drug.....  and that is worrisome.....

The increased awareness of the authorities working on the long-term consequences of cannabis use, more stringent checks at schools and the closing of many Hanfläden (cannabis shops) helped.......


Michael
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #16 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 1:47pm
 
wildhaus wrote on Jun 20th, 2009 at 4:28am:
No! I did not use cannabis!!!

I don’t believe that trying and experiencing is the only way to know or learn.....


you portray marijuana to be this horrible evil substance yet you've never tried it or even been around it.

come on Michael live a little. cut the tag off your mattress. drink milk a day after it expired. eat spicy food after 9 pm and then go swimming without waiting 45 minutes Smiley
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #17 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 1:59pm
 
-johnny- wrote on Jun 20th, 2009 at 1:47pm:
wildhaus wrote on Jun 20th, 2009 at 4:28am:
No! I did not use cannabis!!!

I don’t believe that trying and experiencing is the only way to know or learn.....


you portray marijuana to be this horrible evil substance yet you've never tried it or even been around it.

come on Michael live a little. cut the tag off your mattress. drink milk a day after it expired. eat spicy food after 9 pm and then go swimming without waiting 45 minutes Smiley

Grin Grin
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #18 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 2:33pm
 
Potter wrote on Jun 20th, 2009 at 1:59pm:
-johnny- wrote on Jun 20th, 2009 at 1:47pm:
wildhaus wrote on Jun 20th, 2009 at 4:28am:
No! I did not use cannabis!!!

I don’t believe that trying and experiencing is the only way to know or learn.....


you portray marijuana to be this horrible evil substance yet you've never tried it or even been around it.

come on Michael live a little. cut the tag off your mattress. drink milk a day after it expired. eat spicy food after 9 pm and then go swimming without waiting 45 minutes Smiley

Grin Grin


OK......  I must come across as a very strict and “tight a$$”

yes, I am conservative.... I am not religious, but I do believe
in the right and wrong that the old testament and the wisdom
of the Talmud, Kabala, Zohar, or the Sulhan'aruch,
teach us, that vast wisdom.......

But I do dance out of the chorus very often, at time Marta (my wife) thinks
it is already embarrassing.........  and I even teach
my boys to swim against the current.... to step out of the line.......
to live it......

but, point taken.....
   Smiley

Micahel

PS
I smoke Winston’s (mostly) and that is killing me.....  so
not likely I will start to scent my cigarettes with “fresh herbs”
and kill my self even faster......


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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #19 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 2:48pm
 
-johnny- wrote on Jun 20th, 2009 at 1:47pm:
you portray marijuana to be this horrible evil substance yet you've never tried it or even been around it.


Not taking sides here but there are many things a human can do that I haven't tried. I'm reasonably certain I wouldn't like those things. Reasonably certain is enough for many people. Many times being absolutely certain comes with more baggage than an individual wants to carry.

B
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #20 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 2:50pm
 
lol. thanks Michael. i respect your views. if everybody agreed with me this thread would be pointless. Smiley
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #21 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 3:08pm
 
Racer1_NC wrote on Jun 20th, 2009 at 2:48pm:
-johnny- wrote on Jun 20th, 2009 at 1:47pm:
you portray marijuana to be this horrible evil substance yet you've never tried it or even been around it.


Not taking sides here but there are many things a human can do that I haven't tried. I'm reasonably certain I wouldn't like those things. Reasonably certain is enough for many people. Many times being absolutely certain comes with more baggage than an individual wants to carry.

B


thats a good point but whether you choose to do it or not should be your choice because its your body. the advocates to keep it illegal would lose profits. think about it. why is  anheuser busch spending millions of $$$ in advertisements and lobbying to keep it illegal. its hypocritical at best.   anheuser busch, dupont, and pharmaceutical companies don't care if you get hooked on pot. there objective is to maximize profits at the expence of our personal freedoms.
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #22 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 6:14pm
 
Shawn wrote on Jun 19th, 2009 at 2:08am:
Just when you think you have me pigeonholed...

edited to add, I don't think my stand is inconsistent with conservative principles.  Conservative != Republican and conservative != religious right.

If I had to put a label on it, I would call myself a constitutionalist conservative.


I dont think so, Bro.
The gist of what I quoted from you is most certainly not constitutionalist or conservative.  You say to regulate it, restrict it, tax it.  Thats the opposite of constitutionalist and conservative.

While I half-heartedly agree with regulating it and restricting it, such as the FDA or ATF, I firmly disagree with taxing it.  The government gets far too much in tax revenue as it is....basically destroying the free market.  If they want MORE in taxes, they can fu(k off.

Thats just my opinion, though. 
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Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #23 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 6:38pm
 
How can you justify taxing tobacco and alcohol but not marijuana?
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BMoneeTheMoneeMan
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In remembrance of KingCazman.
RIP


Posts: 2674
Portland, OR
Re: marijuana debate on cnn
Reply #24 - Jun 20th, 2009 at 6:57pm
 
I'm not justifying it.  I'm saying the government gets too much damn money all around. 
We have too many taxes.
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"Fool me once, shame on, shame on you.  Fool - can't get fooled again"&&&&&&Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half the population is stupider than that.&&&&
 
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