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WTF O.U.C.H. ?? (Read 10497 times)
ClusterChuck
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WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Jul 2nd, 2009 at 8:38am
 
Those of you that have not been on the O.U.C.H. web site, and read the posts, NEED to go and read!

I am SO pissed off, and depressed over this stupidity, that I am afraid to write any of my thoughts down here, as I would probably get censored or at least locked down.

Deej, I know you are not happy about us discussing O.U.C.H., here on your site, but this information MUST be put out, seeing how the O.U.C.H. leadership has kept us in the dark for so long, and they have even virtually disappeared.

Log in, people, and look what they are thinking of doing!

Chuck (who will AGAIN be accused of being a rabble rouser ...)
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #1 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 8:57am
 
Cal OUCH will also be disappearing soon.

I think OUCH tried too hard to be a BIG organization.  All the effort had to be directed toward meeting the legal requirements of the org. rather than getting things done for clusterheads.

What is it clusterheads want OUCH to do anyway?
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #2 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 9:22am
 
I have received a couple of PM's asking what I am talking about, and where it is.  (Typical of that confusing site)

Follow these steps:
Click on the OUCH website button on your left edge of this screen.
Click on Members' Area Login
Click on Business Board (you may need to log in again)
Click on OUCH news & updates
Read post Notice to Membership - Convention dated June 8th

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #3 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 9:33am
 
I have not been able to log in there for well oer a year.sad but true......I have no clue what's going on, ande I am finally comfortable with that. I Began by e-mailing the powers that be for my log in info-regularly, but, I gave that up after being ignored repeatedly.

Acourse, that's just me.........

Cathi

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #4 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 9:36am
 
The "original" purpose was to get Clusterheadaches KNOWN as a disease and make doctors aware that we were suffering. To get some research started on finding a cause thus coming closer to a cure.

A lot of work went into making it a nonprofit and legalities HAD to be aherred to (whether we liked it or not). The ball fell to a "few" people to do most of the work and take the "criticism" of the rest.

Members were involved in the beginning and Bob P had a website where everyone could have a say (whether you agreed or not, but everyone had a say in everything). I remember a LOT being accomplished - Letters to employers, research to take to doctors, O2 research - for all to print and read. This was posted on ch.com as well as our OUCH website.

We gave support to each other and conventions were something to look forward to - just meeting another Clusterhead was something we all looked forward to doing.

Ideas were thrown out freely and some of them stuck. A doctor list (which still is in existence today) was suggested and posted almost immediately. A lot of good ideas came from OUCH that are still here today.

My personal opinion - OUCH is still a good organization, but needs to go back to its roots and undergo some reorganization and remember it's original purpose. It's members are its backbone and they need to be involved and informed.

Barbara D
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #5 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 9:45am
 
Mrs Deej wrote on Jul 1st, 2009 at 1:27pm:
I just spoke with Royce personally on the phone and gained permission to post his email that was sent out.

I just spoke with Royce personally on the phone and gained permission to post his email that was sent out.

Quote:
As you may have heard through the cluster headache grapevine, I was layed off by Linde Healthcare, and, will not be attending the OUCH meeting in St. Louis.

It is not fully clear yet, how the work I was doing will be picked up and pursued within Linde.

My hope is that Linde will offer me a consulting contract to finish much of what I had started, such as the 4-5 survey based journal articles with Dr. Rozen, the 3 Patent applications on new devices/methods to further enhance oxygen therapy beyond the demand valve based therapy I was working on with Peter and Michael, development of those devices in Linde, and, supporting Dr. Rozen’s clinical study of the oxygen demand valve based DEVO2THERAPY.

However, I wanted to make sure you all knew, that the 2 abstracts on the survey data Dr. Rozen and I previously submitted to the International Headache Congress were accepted as posters.  Dr. Rozen will be presenting them.  The meeting is this September in Philadelphia.  As soon as the abstracts are officially published in August or September, OUCH, CH.com and other websites should be able to post them for everyones education/information.

It has been very rewarding and great fun meeting and working with all of you on various cluster headache related efforts.

Needless to say, I am very disappointed that I did not get to continue and finish my efforts on your behalf.  My being layed off when all of the cluster headache projects were at such a major stage of moving forward, was obviously not my decision and I must say came as a shock to me, and, others I have worked closely with in Linde Healthcare.


Hopefully this personal statement will alleviate any questions or rumors.

Steph



Bob, asking what do clusterheads want OUCH to do..that's a good question.  

This quote above is from the St. Louis 2009 thread, posted by Stephanie.  Look at the bold.  The work initiated last year with Royce Fishman was, finally, a start in gaining ground.  I'm not here to speak on behalf of anyone FYI, and neither for nor against OUCH.  As OUCH members, it makes sense that I would log in to the OUCH website and see what's going on in the member's section.  I do think however, that a mass email might have been sent out to alert folks as to the agenda, as has been done in the past.  As far as I recall, OUCH has a spokesperson to make announcements, or the mass email is sent out by the webmaster.  

I'm sorry too Deej, I just feel this is important for this community.  I do realize, however, a handful of people can only do but so much. OUCH hAS grown, in spite of critics, obstacles, illnesses, job loss, family deaths, other crises... you name it.  Crossing T's and dotting I's may be looked at as a bureaucratic waste, but when you're really wanting to make a larger impact, it's a necessary evil, in order for it to be taken seriously.  

Last year, OUCH took a huge step forward, in my opinion, having obtained the support of Linde company, and informative and heartfelt presentation by both Royce Fishman and his colleagues, as well as world-reknowned Dr. Goadsby at the Convention.  Not to mention, development of their masks (Linde), particularly beneficial for clusterheadache sufferers, which many people, members and non-members alike, are now using!  

Sufferers and Supporters alike were urged to move, do something- I, and I believe felt the org was on the cusp of a new era. By no means did I think it was the beginning of the end.  

Anyone can go ahead and blast me or pick me apart, I just was one of those who worked for the org, and I can tell you it's no picnic trying to get things done in an org when you're on the defensive for one reason or another.  Getting kicked in the can afterward hurts like hell, and I know I'm not alone.  But I STILL don't think shutting things down is the right thing to do.

I love this community, and OUCH is an extension thereof....I would never have thought everyone would be so near and dear to me.

I don't think I've said anything out of line.. just speaking from the heart, after all, I still do have one.

Pepp
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #6 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 10:01am
 
Cathi_Pierce wrote on Jul 2nd, 2009 at 9:33am:
I have not been able to log in there for well oer a year.sad but true......I have no clue what's going on, ande I am finally comfortable with that. I Began by e-mailing the powers that be for my log in info-regularly, but, I gave that up after being ignored repeatedly.

Acourse, that's just me.........

Cathi



Not just you Cathy...
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #7 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 10:12am
 
I read about this almost a month ago.

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Here is my take. We can complain about where OUCH is today all we want. The bottom line, in my opinion, is that the 3-4 people who have been trying to keep it afloat are worn out.

They have elections begging for help and no one steps forward.  I don't blame the ones left holding the bag to want some some help; or shut it down. But before we tell them what we expect OUCH to do, be prepared to take the reins because they may hand it to you.

If there is not interest from the community, whats the point?
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #8 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 10:23am
 
I'll say only this - The convention is the perfect time and place to talk about all of this, and I am looking forward to a spirited discussion. I don't even care that there won't be any guest speakers. This stuff needs to be thrown out onto the table and sliced, diced, and cut three ways. Is running a medical advocacy organization with nothing but the people who suffer the damned disease the way to go?

Let's talk about it in St. Louis.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #9 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 10:37am
 
What about the people who can't make it to St. Louis, for one reason or another?  I certainly cannot go this year.  I have been going since the Convention in NY, but this year, not possible.  

And Jimi, I love you my friend, but it's a few more than just 3-4 people, although still a small group . You know that officially people served as terms allowed, but unofficially, others helped to make things happen.  

When folks want to step down from official capacity, why not make an announcement to that effect, ahead of time, instead of one about a pending shutdown altogether.

Wish I could be there this summer, but there are circumstances.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #10 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 10:43am
 
Would it be possible to set up one of the sessions in STL as a conference call, to give members who can't be there the opportunity to voice their opinions? Maybe a live chat session with one computer projecting the screen so all STL attendees can see what's going on?

I'm just throwing ideas out there....
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #11 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 10:53am
 

SEVERAL months ago this agenda was put up on the convention page for everyone to read.  I even posted a reminder down below on the convention page which had 70-something hits but no replies.

I'm sorry if you're just now seeing it Chuck.

  This is merely a meeting/discussion for the membership to talk about what they want the future of OUCH to be. 

All of the other comments have validity too.  There have been errors and omissions every year, and as Jimi has pointed out a few individuals can not keep the ship afloat.  Only one new person has offered to step forward and join the board this coming year.  ONE PERSON!    OUCH has 3000 members.  Only 70 bothered to vote in last years elections.

Those coming to the Convention can participate in determining the future of OUCH.  Leave the wisecracks and attacks on the past at home and come with ideas and offers to help the future. 

Linda
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #12 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 10:53am
 
Quote:
When folks want to step down from official capacity, why not make an announcement to that effect, ahead of time, instead of one about a pending shutdown altogether.


And maybe I was speaking out of turn because I don't know of any officials planning on stepping down.  Like Brew said, it definetly needs to be laid out on the table to see how the board feels now, what the problems they are having, if there is any interest on new people stepping forward etc. It is too bad there will be such a small group for the discussion.  It will be interesting.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #13 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:01am
 
Uh..the only one stepping down is Mike Day, our president and that is because his 2-year term is up.  Helen, Liz and one new person are running, and Jim, Paul Logue, myself and Patrick have one more year to serve.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #14 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:09am
 
Maybe OUCH is trying to do too much.  Perhaps pick one pet project and work only on that.  It's true OUCH is kept afloat only by a few people.  It's agenda should reflet that.

Kinda nice to have an open forum like this to discuss it in.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #15 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:15am
 
Jimi wrote on Jul 2nd, 2009 at 10:53am:
And maybe I was speaking out of turn because I don't know of any officials planning on stepping down.  Like Brew said, it definetly needs to be laid out on the table to see how the board feels now, what the problems they are having, if there is any interest on new people stepping forward etc. It is too bad there will be such a small group for the discussion.  It will be interesting.


Jimi, I know as much as you do.  It was a suggestion in reference to individuals who might feel the need to step down because they've given all they can - not a reference to any one person in particular. 
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #16 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:26am
 
Thanks Pepp...

I couldn't have said it any better... In any organization, if you're a leader, you must wear a Bullet Proof Vest or coat of armor at all times.

I’m on the boards of “The TIME CENTER (Men Homeless Shelter) & GCAP (Greater Community Aids Project)"; and I'm hit with negatism all the time. But I just keep smiling and pushing forward. Because I realize that "Tearing someone else down, is the only way some people can build themselves up"

We can sit back an criticize or we can work together. I have gotten so much out of OUCH,. from the written info to the Speakers. 

Taking a quote from a speech I gave at one of my Fraternal Organizations many years ago: "ORGANIZATIONS DO NOT DIE, WE KILL THEM, ORGANIZATIONS ARE NOT LIVING THINGS. WE MAKE UP THE ORGANIZATION".

I am willing to do what ever I can to help this organization survive.

I don't have much, (in fact I'm as broke as the 10 commandments Smiley) but I make sure that I hit that PayPal button at the bottom of OUCH & CH.Com a couple times a year... The Survival of these two great entities should not be placed  on the shoulder of one or two people; if each of us that use these sights and benefit from them, would donate $10, 15 or what ever we can each year; WE WANT DIE, WE WILL MULTIPLY!!

Peace & Blessings
LadyLuv

Mr. & Mrs. Deej, I Pray that I'm not in trouble for writing this, but these to entities means a lot to me... Just putting my 2cents in...
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #17 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:56am
 
I have got but one thing to say publicly on this subject.....

What you plant, you will harvest.

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #18 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 12:17pm
 
Bob P wrote on Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:09am:
Kinda nice to have an open forum like this to discuss it in.


THIS is the key of what brought O.U.C.H to the point that it is now.  Once the board shut down to open discussion the membership felt left out, and uninformed.

It was locked down, at the time, due to the fact that there was so much nastiness and name calling on the board, and that IS true.  There was a lot of that.  BUT, there are better ways to keep the discussions flowing, than locking it down.  

I think Deej and Stephanie have done a wonderful job with setting up the moderators, and how they are used on this site (even though I was against it in the beginning).  Why can't O.U.C.H. do the same thing and get the membership involved again?

Chuck

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #19 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 6:55pm
 
Quote:
Once the board shut down to open discussion the membership felt left out, and uninformed.


Bingo !
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #20 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 8:43pm
 
Funny, I just had a conversation with a past OUCH officer about this today.

Nobody seemed to want to admit it, but OUCH, the potential powerhouse, died a long time ago. Now it's just a vehicle for an annual meet and greet.

In order to get serious involvement from members, you have to make them feel involved. I faded away from OUCH when the open discussion stopped.

Yes, I remember why it happened and still disagree with that decision today. I politely voiced that opinion back then and was more or less told that member opinions didn't count. I was also dead against making membership free - still feel that way.

The sad thing is that it could be revived with far less work than it took to create it. The damage (largely false perception) that was done previously runs so deep that no one, including me, wants to bust their butts to make it happen.

One strong leader, with a narrowly focused initial goal could bring 'er back to life in 6 months. It's strictly a matter of trust. How many of you can honestly say that you have a warm and fuzzy feeling about OUCH?

Change that one aspect and the dynamo starts spinning.

Respectfully,
Marc


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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #21 - Jul 2nd, 2009 at 11:41pm
 
The message board was not put on the new website, due to the long and continual flame fest directed at the OUCH BoD that defined it on the old website. To call it open discussion among OUCH members is a misnomer. Also, when going after grants, corporations would check out that message board. It was the first thing seen on the website. I can only imagine what they thought, seeing that stuff. Officially, but politely, turning us down for other reasons. I can only imagine what new members thought of it.

I don't know of any other non-profit organizations that have a message board on their websites. Regular announcements yes. Is it just that we are used to posting to CH.com?

I think OUCH could begin again, but I believe it will take a narrowly focused, motivated team, with a strong leader, to make it work. A team that is willing to make the time and work together.

I agree with what Jim posted on OUCH.

Many members have not gotten a reply when they couldn't log into OUCH. How many members have not even bothered to check in with OUCH?  There has been appeal after appeal for volunteers to work with OUCH. For member involvement.

It does appear OUCH is in a stagnant state. I too look forward to a discussion in St. Louis. Maybe it would be possible to have streaming video so that members unable to attend will be able to see, and participate in the discussion via webcam, or an online meeting room.

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #22 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 9:30am
 
I‘m concerned about the future of OUCH and it’s obvious from all the comments in this thread, many others are as well…

While I understand Jim’s post on OUCH and some of his frustrations, I have a different view.   And, as I will be unable to attend to take part in the discussions on the future of OUCH,

and yet I would have loved to have a venue so we that don’t attend the convention can take part in the discussion…. like on OUCH message board…..

I’m moved to post the following to ensure there’s greater understanding of OUCH, some of its recent accomplishments, the art of the doable when there are clear goals, and why we need an organization like OUCH.

I have been part of OUCH from the time I started my “journey” with CH in early 2006, initially as an inactive spectator, and for a short time as a member of the OUCH Board of Directors and an active collaborator in some very significant initiatives and achievements.  

These initiatives started in October 2006 when I asked Pete Batcheller, “Batch” to join me in developing a User’s Guide for oxygen therapy as none existed.  We collaborated on a six-month effort that resulted in development of the Supplemental User’s Guide to Oxygen Therapy that is still available for download on the OUCH web site.  

Annette, Chuck, Svenn and some more good people were actively involved in development of this User’s Guide and helped to make it a very useful and comprehensive primer for people who never received the needed instruction on how to use oxygen therapy from their doctors or neurologists.  It was well received and it’s been translated into several languages for use across Europe.

We also formed and implemented the OUCH O2 User's Support Team and “helpline”  where we responded to many questions and requests for information about oxygen therapy.  Both Pete and I received several compliments on our responses.

It was the User’s Guide that attracted the attention of the health care managers at Linde Gas Therapeutics in Munich and that led to the initial contact by Royce Fishman in July of 2007.   After calls from Royce Fishman to me and Pete, I met with Royce and Linde Health Care Managers in August for a daylong meeting in Zurich Switzerland (not as part of OUCH at that time) and Pete joined for a part of that meeting over Skype.  

This led to another series of meetings with Royce and Linde Home Care Managers in Switzerland and the USA followed rapidly by another collaborative effort where Linde LifeGas and Linde Gas Therapeutics provided support for a “Quick Look” pilot study of a new method of oxygen therapy Pete and I (I only did some math work and math analysis, Pete did most of the work….) had been working on for several months.   The pilot study started in August of 2007 and by late August we had modified the study protocol and therapy procedures to include use of a demand valve provided by Linde.

Based on the initial success of this pilot study, Helen Williams “LeLimey”, Svenn Thørn, Pete and I were invited to attend a second meeting with Royce and the Linde Home Care Managers in Munich, this time as members of the OUCH BoD
but not representing OUCH.

That meeting resulted in a lot of actions undertaken by us as members of OUCH, Linde LifeGas here in the US and Linde Gas Therapeutics in Europe.  These actions have benefitted and will continue to benefit cluster headache sufferers all over the world.  

Many of the actions taken by Linde as business decisions are still covered by non-disclosure agreements so they cannot be discussed, but the others you’ll recognize.  The O2PTIMASK and Demand Valve Kits as well as the Cluster Headache Survey are some of the most obvious.  As members of OUCH we made this happen.  

There is also a new demand valve that Helen, Svenn, Pete, and I had the opportunity to evaluate and comment on that Linde will market later this year.  The not so obvious results of this meeting and others I had with the Linde Home Care leadership in Munich and Switzerland was securing an agreement for Linde LifeGas to serve as a sponsor providing funding to both OUCH and CH.com.  

Pete and I were also instrumental in securing support and funding from Linde Home Care for Dr. Rozen to conduct an official study of the demand valve therapy.  I’m told this is still on track and scheduled to start in January 2010.  We are confident the results of Dr. Rozen’s study of the demand valve therapy (DEVO2THERAPY™) will confirm the results from our initial pilot study.  When this happens and the results are published, we are equally confident this will benefit cluster headache sufferers with an improved method of aborting their terribly painful attacks.  Again, all this happened while we were active members of the OUCH BoD.  

I know Royce wanted to present the results of the Cluster Headache Survey in St. Louis in return for the outstanding support from over 1130 survey participants.   When it became obvious he couldn’t attend, he asked Dr. Rozen to present the results.  Dr. Rozen passed his regrets as he couldn’t attend due to previous commitments and suggested Pete present the results as he has been working with Royce analyzing the survey data.  Pete agreed and Royce made the offer to OUCH, but by then the convention agenda had been overtaken by events…

I left OUCH active collaboration due to “personal” reasons…. but I still continue to push (with Pete) the O2 Agenda….. and actively look for “money” to help our cause…… for me mainly O2 therapy…

I believe we need OUCH!   I also know it takes a 100% team effort to attain the kind of goals that makes OUCH so important to all of us.  This isn’t something that can be accomplished by a few while others sit on the fence and don’t take an active role or in some cases have good ideas but don’t follow up with the needed support, or worse yet, just simply criticize… without taking any action!

It’s difficult enough trying to push an agenda in support of cluster headache sufferers.  The fact that we suffer from an obscure orphan syndrome and there is so much to do requires a level of dedication and commitment that most of us simply cannot provide… we do have bills to pay…

Look at the interest most of us show in OUCH… the participation in the elections…. or trying to take an active role…

OUCH, I Believe, you try and try hard…. with a full engagement… love, care and dedication…. I do not always agree with some of the policy….  or ways….. but in order to get some change I would need to engage, and try to get the change from within…. and not just sit and have ideas with out the interest to help and do!

I will not (unfortunately) be at the convention, due to personal priorities…. But OUCH you have my support…  in whatever way you choose to go…

Michael
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catlind
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #23 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 10:42am
 
First, I apologize Steph and DJ, but there is no way to post/ask/reply to the info on the OUCH boards.

When I read the post on the business board, some serious alarm bells went off.

Marc wrote on Jul 2nd, 2009 at 8:43pm:
In order to get serious involvement from members, you have to make them feel involved. I faded away from OUCH when the open discussion stopped.

Respectfully,
Marc


You are correct, member involvement is essential, and to achieve member involvement, the members have to feel like they CAN be involved.

This brings me to what set off alarm bells:

Quote:
We wish all OUCH Members could participate.  It is a very important subject; the conversation will undoubtedly have many twists and turns and thus, will require face-to-face sharing.  We respectfully ask that this be an in-person at Convention discussion.  We are planning on this being moderated to enable an orderly and a semi-formal meeting.  We must agree on the outcome for OUCH by convention’s end.


While I understand that issues addressed at the Annual General Meeting are handled much easier and more efficiently when done with all parties present face to face, I cannot see how something of this magnitude would/could be limited to those select few who are fortunate enough in this economy to have:
a) the $100 registration fee
b) the several hundreds of dollars required for travel and   accommodations as well as other expenses

The above quote from the OUCH business board, tells me that only the members who attend the convention will be allowed any input as to the future of OUCH, whether it will cease to exist, reorganize, or any other potential solution.  Additionally, if OUCH does dissolve, the funds will then have to be dispersed - again, my interpretation of the above statement indicates that only the members that are in attendance at convention will have any say in where those funds are dispersed to.

I may be interpreting the quote entirely wrong, and I hope I am.  
Even if I had the money for travel and accommodations, the $100 registration fee seems a bit high to me, considering the speaker for the technical sessions won't be speaking.  It comes across as having to pay $100 to attend a meet and greet;  In the past, the registration fee went to pay for the goodie bags, banquet, entertainment, speaker fees and transportation, facility rentals (conference & hospitality rooms as well as any equipment rentals) and T shirts.  I don't remember ever seeing a portion of the registration fee listed as the fee to attend to the OUCH meetings.   Again, I may well be misunderstanding, and hope I am, but for me, the wording above indicates that the only way to have input into the future of OUCH (or its demise) is to pay the $100 AND be in attendance.

Any clarification on this issue would be much appreciated.  Having volunteered with OUCH for many years in different capacities, I am well aware of the need for unification.  Please know that I am not asking to try and cause trouble or create discord.  I've personally given much of my heart to OUCH, and do not want to see the efforts and hard work of ALL who volunteered over the years to come to an end if there is another possible solution;  I also don't want to see those same volunteers excluded from the process because the current economic crisis prevents them from attending.

Cat
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Carl D
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #24 - Jul 3rd, 2009 at 2:11pm
 
Cat,
I can't say this is 'the plan' as I have not a clue myself, since I am one of the 'shutout' members of OUCH that never received my log-in info as requested. Now I see I wasn't the only one.

While I realize not everyone can make it to the convention, a discussion HAS to begin as to the future of OUCH or its dissolution.
I think the discussion needs to BEGIN in St Louis, MO - and then overflow here to the board, maybe DJ can put a sticky post up for everyone to respond to - with two rules: no fighting or name calling, and - focus on solutions instead of dragging old problems through the mud.

This is just my 2 cents, but we have to start somewhere before it winds up going nowhere and, what so many people put their heart soul and time into, will just vanish.

I, for one, would like to see OUCH survive and move on with its original vision, expand; but yes, it is going to take people willing to step up to the plate and take action. That is something I swore I would never do, but we will see how things go in St Louis.

Everyone should let their voices be heard even though they can't make it to the convention. But, the discussion HAS to start somewhere.

Just a thought.

Concerned,
Carl D
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