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WTF O.U.C.H. ?? (Read 10611 times)
DJ
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #50 - Jul 5th, 2009 at 9:56pm
 
And another one...

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Jim, can you ensure OUCH knows of these options for LouCon?

Deej

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #51 - Jul 5th, 2009 at 10:08pm
 
I think the best idea for individuals at this point would be to find an attendee who they can  contact directly for ideas/questions.  That way it would not be 1 persons job to try and convey the thoughts of an entire group.  Then, we could use a webinar for them to see and hear the conference, but they could have 1 person who they could trust to try and help get their ideas/thoughts out.  However, that will be tough.

I will be there and my vote is going to be to make the final decision on this topic via online vote so that the final decision would be made by membership.  I also will suggest that vote be postponed until all open requests for access to the site/vote are reconciled.

Finally, I wonder if members could give proxy rights to an attending member to vote for them.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #52 - Jul 5th, 2009 at 10:24pm
 
Actually, I disagree with the idea of non-attendees contacting attendees (i.e., the buddy system). Attendees are shelling out $$ to be there so that they can participate, socialize, learn, etc. For that low, low price, we're supposed to be using non-meeting time to keep others up to date in close to real time and soliciting their ideas? No way. We should provide, to the best of our ability, a way for non-attendees to get as much info as possible (without putting undue burden on the people that are there), and leave it at that.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #53 - Jul 5th, 2009 at 10:59pm
 
Brew wrote on Jul 5th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
Actually, I disagree with the idea of non-attendees contacting attendees (i.e., the buddy system). Attendees are shelling out $$ to be there so that they can participate, socialize, learn, etc. For that low, low price, we're supposed to be using non-meeting time to keep others up to date in close to real time and soliciting their ideas? No way. We should provide, to the best of our ability, a way for non-attendees to get as much info as possible (without putting undue burden on the people that are there), and leave it at that.


Brew, if you disagree, then don't make yourself available, period.  y suggestion is purely voluntary.

I am paying my money, but somehow I don't think that entitles me to more of a say in the direction of this group.  To me the money is going to pay for the extras I get for being there, not towards having a say to the future.

Just my opinion.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #54 - Jul 5th, 2009 at 11:07pm
 
People who are there, like myself, plan all year (or sometimes longer) to be able to be there. I expect to be able to enjoy myself during non-meeting time, and I suspect many others will want to do the same.

If you want to spend your non-meeting time on the phone with members who aren't there, have at it.

ETA: Nowhere did I suggest that I should have more of a say because I'm physically there. Don't put words in my mouth, please. I fully agree with any voting happening online after the convention.
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« Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2009 at 11:09pm by Brew »  

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #55 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 12:14am
 
seaworthy wrote on Jul 3rd, 2009 at 10:43pm:
Quote:
This meeting is the legal and official Annual Meeting of OUCH, INC.  Like General Motors, or AAA, or any other corporation


Except its not General Motors or AAA. Its an all volunteer organization made up of a bunch of headache sufferers and nothing more.

Get back to the roots , get off the high horse, shitcan all the lawyers that got involved, and focus on the mission statement.

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Don, Jim was referring to the fact that OUCH Inc. is having their annual meeting, just like any other corporation. OUCH may not be General Motors, or any other large corporation, but a corporation it is. And being a corporation, it has legal obligations to meet.

And just as it is at other corporations annual meetings, the meeting is announced, some folks are there, some are not.

To me, saying "it's an all volunteer organization made up of a bunch of headache sufferers and nothing more" is insulting to the work that OUCH has done. Is there something wrong with the BoD volunteering their time?  OUCH could pay salaries to get some experienced people in there to run it.   

At this late date, it will be hard to accommodate all members of OUCH to attend virtually. I suggest an agenda be listed, and stuck to in the discussion.

To everyone who wants to have the members involved, just exactly what do you mean by that? I don't mean putting up a message board, so come people can talk about how they would do things, and flame the current BoD, I would like to know what you all mean by involving the members. Are you all prepared to volunteer to work for OUCH? Or to sit on the sidelines and comment?

Having streaming video so people can see is one thing. Having everyone not in attendance able to comment will stagnate the meeting, and it will get nowhere fast.



A few things I'd like to see on the agenda:

Having a 3rd party webhost, overhaul and host the website. Fix the log in problems.

Bring in a BoD that has a business background. They don't all need to suffer from CH. They need a business background. Pay them.

Keep Family Services.

Plan the annual meeting, preferably in the middle of the country, so more people can attend, and be involved in the meeting. Afford more time to discuss OUCH business.

The membership should be paying annual dues. Tax deductible.  How many members does OUCH have? Then lifetime memberships would be just that. In addition to being honored with this award, the awardee would not paying dues for the rest of their lives. Otherwise having lifetime members is kind of meaningless. If we aren't paying dues, then we are all lifetime members.


Anyone care to add to this?

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #56 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 12:23am
 
FramCire wrote on Jul 5th, 2009 at 10:08pm:
Finally, I wonder if members could give proxy rights to an attending member to vote for them.


Fram, Proxy votes are signed over to the board of directors to vote. If you are not in attendance, and proxy voting has been set up in advance, the person voting can fill out the proxy and mail it, or send it via a third party website that is set up for such purpose. If they are not filled out, then the board votes as they see fit.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #57 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 2:47am
 
When I asked to be able to “join” the discussion about OUCH, and be able to voice my
opinion I meant doing it now before the meeting! tossing ideas, tossing thoughts, in a way, a barometer to what the “mood” toward OUCH, and the priorities of the members......

During the meeting at the convention, I would love to be able to see, to listen.....but not to take an active role, the nature of meetings such as this one - it is not
a video conference
- it is a members meeting, members that are present at the meeting
place, and not only I accept it, I support it.....
One can deposit a excuse letter with some points that he would like the chair to consider
during the meeting, but it is up to the chair to bring it up......

The discussion in the for front of the convention is important, it is in a way a compass
to the priorities of the members, to the commitment, to the interest in the organization
and goals.

Unfortunately I do not see much of that.....  I don’t know why, I can only speculate......
I am also (in a way) a frustrated member.... but I don’t give up..... I think OUCH is
not a corps! it might be (Seem to some of us) stagnating...... disconnected from the
members..... well I have the impression that it is our fault.... the members fault......
we ignored the instrument OUCH.....
we trusted someone else will do the job for us.....
But it doesn’t work that way....  it takes involvement..... if not direct then in direct....
but ignoring..... being apathetic dose not do!!!!
and when the situation we are facing
accurse it is mostly to late to say why didn’t we / they do any thing........

For OUCH it is not to late, it is almost midnight but not yet............
if we the members, are interested in an instrument called OUCH, we need to be
simply more involved.... on both ends.... but it is the individuals responsibility.....
to seek information, and the organizations to provide it..... at the same time
the organization needs to be more transparent...... and communicative..... and
try to do less and achieve more...... to set goals and priorities, (I do not suggest
it was not done) and communicate it to the members......

I know it is simple to suggest and not to have to take responsibility......
I know I am one that quit responsibility..... for what ever reason....  
But I still care..... I still would like to see OUCH immerge out of this with a strong
leadership..... (and we do have some very good ppl. in OUCH BoD)  and most important
membership that care and involve in the “life” of the organization.....

Michael

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« Last Edit: Jul 6th, 2009 at 2:49am by wildhaus »  

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #58 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 7:08am
 
Quote:
Are you all prepared to volunteer to work for OUCH? Or to sit on the sidelines and comment?


Are you suggesting that if you are not active then you should not have a voice?

Members have a right to sit on the sidelines and comment and direct those comments to the BoD if they so choose by virtue of the fact they are members. There is no requirement that a member must be active to voice an opinion.

A message board of some sort could be set up prior to the meeting so that comments and ideas can be tallied and discussed during the meeting. Moderate the MB as Deej has done here and there should be no problem. Incorporate the comments and ideas into the agenda and/or add a panel discussion to address the ideas and comments virtually.
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« Last Edit: Jul 6th, 2009 at 7:11am by seaworthy »  
 
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #59 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 8:14am
 
I read the Bylaws a couple of weeks ago (and I think I'm right on this) and proxy votes are not allowed - only those present and voting are counted, so I think proxies are a moot point.

But a lot of people will have laptops so members can watch and type in "suggestions" and "questions".

And anything said needs to be either a quetion or a "suggestion" not a cirticism - we know OUCH has problems - we don't need to expand on that - we need to figure out what to do to "solve" these problems.

One thing that (with volunteers) that can HELP OUCH is take a volunteer's "expertise" and use it for that PURPOSE. What I'm saying is if we have someone who's a computer whiz (like DJ - sorry Deej - you just came to mind) put that person to improving the website and making it the best it can be. If the person writes grants for a living - give him/her a shot at getting grants for OUCH.  If we've got someone who knows insurance - put them on a committee to research insurance, etc...

Right now we need an "organizer" - someone who's good at organizing - an office manager so to speak. As someone said a while back - we've got a lot of good cooks in the kitchen, but we're not getting a lot of cooking done.

But the membership needs to be informed of what's going on and they need to be involved. I really feel the more the members are informed the more they'll become involved.

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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #60 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 8:43am
 
Brew wrote on Jul 5th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
Actually, I disagree with the idea of non-attendees contacting attendees (i.e., the buddy system). Attendees are shelling out $$ to be there so that they can participate, socialize, learn, etc. For that low, low price, we're supposed to be using non-meeting time to keep others up to date in close to real time and soliciting their ideas? No way. We should provide, to the best of our ability, a way for non-attendees to get as much info as possible (without putting undue burden on the people that are there), and leave it at that.



I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  Yes, I've saved and shelled out the money to go to convention.  However, I also realize that some people just DO NOT have the extra funds to get there.  I'm lucky that I can drive this year (like I did last year).  If I had to fly, like numerous members would, I would not be able to afford to go.

Chris,
I can't find a particular section in the by-laws that states how proxy votes are to be handled (only that the directors cannot vote by proxy).

Barb,
I didn't find any by-law relating to proxy votes by members, only the directors.

ARTICLE 16. PROXY
16.01.00 Proxy. Directors shall not be permitted to vote in elections by proxy.

BarbaraD wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 8:14am:
And anything said needs to be either a quetion or a "suggestion" not a cirticism - we know OUCH has problems - we don't need to expand on that - we need to figure out what to do to "solve" these problems.


Those *problems* need to be brought to the forefront and possible solutions discussed.  Cannot solve a problem until the problem itself is recognized.

This discussion is a good start.  The biggest problem I see here, is that there is still only a very small group in the discussion.  There has to be mor members out there that aren't expressing their opinions/ideas.  And that, is the biggest problem any organization faces. People tend to want to see change, but they don't want to be the venue for said change.

For starters, I agree with Chris that membership needs to be *paid* as opposed to *free*.  It doesn't have to be that much and those with families could have a family membership.

Any major changes discussed and voted on by the directors needs to be presented to members and voted on by the members at large (given that membership is all over the world, it could be done via a poll on the OUCH website).

Other people have suggestions?
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #61 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 9:40am
 
Carolyn, if you're comfortable being somebody else's eyes, ears, and mouth for the run of the convention, then bless your heart. If everyone there did that, however, the meeting would 1) be way out of order, and 2) become one huge clusterf*ck.

The more I think about this, the more I am of the opinion that the BoD and those members present make an honest effort to:

a) either transcribe or webcast what happens at the meeting

b) provide an avenue for remote members to comment or question (i.e., a chat forum), and

c) save any important votes for an online forum, much like has been done in the past for BoD elections.

If anybody wants to buddy up with somebody to provide briefings, there's nothing wrong with that. But that activity should not be allowed from within the meeting room while in session as it would prove to be extremely disruptive.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #62 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:05am
 
Brew wrote on Jul 5th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
Attendees are shelling out $$ to be there so that they can participate


Sorry man, but that part of your post sounded like those that didn't pay didn't have as much of a right to participate.  I now know that is not what you meant but hopefully you now can see I was not trying to put words in your mouth. 

Next time please don't use the "words in my mouth" line with me.  You should know by now that I don't purposefully do that.  Just clarify what you were saying and move forward.  Just a friendly request.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #63 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:21am
 
I always felt that there are so many voices yet it always appears that the majority only come out to protest or bitch when something happens.

I do not know how many are truly supporters other than those who are active in BOD and others with defined postions.

I do know that I have been asked to run or to hold certain positions and I have been unable to do so over the 5 yrs that I am a member. I will not take on anything that I cannot give 110%

That being said, I have always said that dues even if a minute amount are necessary for an organization to run. It also ensures some level of accountability for those who actually want to have input regardless of what it may be. It does make people feel as if they are a part of something.

Dues can be as little as $1.00 and those who do pay have the voice. If dues are not paid, then one cannot voice, vote nor participate in certain events.

There has to be some level of accountability for the members not just the BOD.

Members also have to take into consideration that these are volunteer positions and many may have the heart but (no disrespect) not the skill sets. So appreciation should be given to the individuals and also the situations that they may be involved in.

There's my opinion. I guess I compare it to those who discuss politics yet do not pay taxes nor vote. If you are not accountable or take the opportunity to make change then you really should keep your mouth shut.

This was not directed at anyone. It is directed at the spinning circle that seems still be occurring.

Some great things have happened.
The question is, how can it be brought to the next level and that remains everyone's issue.

Ex2
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #64 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:24am
 
Brew wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 9:40am:
If anybody wants to buddy up with somebody to provide briefings, there's nothing wrong with that. But that activity should not be allowed from within the meeting room while in session as it would prove to be extremely disruptive.


Im not sure how IM or text messaging disrupts the meeting.  I agree it would be poor form to make phone calls because of the audio distraction, but I often text/IM in class/church and very few people know.  If I am not IM/text, I usually take notes on my phone, so there is really no way that this practice would be any more/less disrupting than taking notes on my phone.

If you but the meeting on webinar, then you only have to IM/text ideas and such because they dont need to be "brief"ed
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You've overstayed your welcome since the day we met but it doesn't seem to matter to you.  No medications are your master, nothing makes you fret, it's a helpless feeling having nothing I can do
 
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #65 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:25am
 
FramCire wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:05am:
Brew wrote on Jul 5th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
Attendees are shelling out $$ to be there so that they can participate


Sorry man, but that part of your post sounded like those that didn't pay didn't have as much of a right to participate.  I now know that is not what you meant but hopefully you now can see I was not trying to put words in your mouth.  

Next time please don't use the "words in my mouth" line with me.  You should know by now that I don't purposefully do that.  Just clarify what you were saying and move forward.  Just a friendly request.

Consider it done.

And I would appreciate not being lectured in return. We're all big boys and girls here.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #66 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:29am
 
FramCire wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:24am:
Brew wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 9:40am:
If anybody wants to buddy up with somebody to provide briefings, there's nothing wrong with that. But that activity should not be allowed from within the meeting room while in session as it would prove to be extremely disruptive.


Im not sure how IM or text messaging disrupts the meeting.  I agree it would be poor form to make phone calls because of the audio distraction, but I often text/IM in class/church and very few people know.  If I am not IM/text, I usually take notes on my phone, so there is really no way that this practice would be any more/less disrupting than taking notes on my phone.

If you but the meeting on webinar, then you only have to IM/text ideas and such because they dont need to be "brief"ed

I am obviously not the one to be throwing suggestions out here. I'm going to defer to the expertise of others to come up with a way we can all contribute, no matter where we are during this meeting.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #67 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:31am
 
Brew wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:25am:
FramCire wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:05am:
Brew wrote on Jul 5th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
Attendees are shelling out $$ to be there so that they can participate


Sorry man, but that part of your post sounded like those that didn't pay didn't have as much of a right to participate.  I now know that is not what you meant but hopefully you now can see I was not trying to put words in your mouth.  

Next time please don't use the "words in my mouth" line with me.  You should know by now that I don't purposefully do that.  Just clarify what you were saying and move forward.  Just a friendly request.

Consider it done.

And I would appreciate not being lectured in return. We're all big boys and girls here.



This isnt a lecture, my friend.  It was just a simple request.  There was no intention of lecturing or talking down at you.  I said I was sorry, so I am not sure how you took that as a lecture.
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #68 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:43am
 
Fram and Bill....................I'm going to put both of you in time out if you don't chill. Tongue

I don't think you two have met. You are going to really like each other when you meet. Trust me on this. You two are both alike and both good guys.   Cheesy
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #69 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:46am
 
I am sorry, but I still miss “strategic” thinking.....
I miss goals..... technicalities and procedures
are set according to, and upon strategy and goals,

I believe the BoD is ewer of the interest of some, or all to be
able to take "part" (long distence) in the meeting, in what ever constellation......

from my point of view – “see” if technically and procedurally possible
and “listen”.... if technically and procedurally possible.......
And this is for the BoD to decide..... and Ill go with it, if I like it or not
it is the responsibility, burden and right the BoD carry.....

but we need to focus at the moment, not much time left..... to look
what do we as members would like to see in OUCH... what should
OUCH strategically concentrate on..... what roll should it play in the
short and long term.....

once we have formatted some Ideas, we can start and look how we
get to them. and from there the BoD is to take the “Ship” and navigate....
and communicate..... success or failure...... ways... in other words inform
let us members be part of the process.....


I know it is for the BoD to provide the above “strategic” goals..... and for
us members to agree or not.....  but for the moment I just cant see it
happened..... not for lack of knowledge or dedication...... it is just that
the “Ship” is in a drift with out a set curse.....

I also miss some what an more active involvement from the BoD in this discussion, and the
officers..... if not now then when.....  this is not the moment for procedures
and collegiality.... or what ever....

It is about something that, as it seems is important to so many of us.....


Michael
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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #70 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:48am
 
Jimi wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:43am:
Fram and Bill....................I'm going to put both of you in time out if you don't chill. Tongue

I don't think you two have met. You are going to really like each other when you meet. Trust me on this. You two are both alike and both good guys.   Cheesy

That's why I said I was done, Jimi.
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"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
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FramCire
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Life like a froward child
must be humored a little


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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #71 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 11:04am
 
Jimi wrote on Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:43am:
Fram and Bill....................I'm going to put both of you in time out if you don't chill. Tongue

I don't think you two have met. You are going to really like each other when you meet. Trust me on this. You two are both alike and both good guys.   Cheesy


I love time out.  i got 3 kids and the idea of sitting in a quiet chair is soooooo nice.
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You've overstayed your welcome since the day we met but it doesn't seem to matter to you.  No medications are your master, nothing makes you fret, it's a helpless feeling having nothing I can do
 
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Cathi_Pierce
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


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Thoughts on OUCH
Reply #72 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 12:37pm
 
I KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WITH THEIR FINGERS TWITCHING RIGHT NOW! I know plenty of people who have worked very hard to see OUCH become what it should be! I know, for a variety of reasons, a lot of what OUCH has accomplished has fallen on deaf ears.
When a large group of people band together for a cause, there are bound to be differing opinions as well as different levels of education. intelligence, ability and involvement. 
This is not the time, necessarily, to thank them, but we need to acknowledge the fact that OUCH HAS  been an effective entity, and even as  we speak, people are quietly going forward with more efffort on your behalf.

How one resolves the issues at hand? I'm not certain. I DO know, some of the movers and shakers in OUCH have been pretty much silent to the larger mass, simply keeping their heads down, working.

There is an old saying "lead, follow, or get out of the way">>>>>>>>well, never has it been so true. Each year, once Conv is done, people jump on the badwagon which is OUCH, extolls the group's virtues as lined out in the Gen Meeting,  it all trickles down to those who didn't attend, some grrumblings begin, and, for all of their efforts, there begins a public tar-and-feathering!

Before you flush this very worthy organization, go back thru the old msg board. Read what people........ I'm not naming anyone here, for fear of forgetting someone.........the GREAT here, FAR outweighs the negative.........BY FAR!
I'm also not going to try to tell you nothing negative has ever occurred......but 'chit happens".....different people, different circumstances and past history from which we can learn.

I'm hoping OUCH can regroup, once again, focus on the successes of the past, find a positive, enlightened BOD, and become the leaders OUCH needs to send the  CH message to the world, because that is the MOST important part.......there NEEDS to be some cure/control found for CH..........

When you think about what should-or should not happen, keep your eye on the prize.

What began in a garage can continue in a garage. What talent one has, be it professional or passion for a cause- it is ALL of value.

Just thoughts, gang, and kudos to those now and in the past, who have dedicated themselves, in whatever capacity.
Cathi
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
 
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ClusterChuck
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The BEAST rises again,
and again, and again,
and .


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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #73 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 12:52pm
 
Here are some suggestions/proposals:

- The whole discussion session recorded and made available to the membership after the convention.

- A list of viable suggestions as to what needs to be done.

- A section of the O.U.C.H. board set up, visible to sufferers and supporters only (not the general public) where open discussions can be held, BOTH ways, WITH moderators.

- After a month or two, the membership VOTES on the proposals.

- O.U.C.H. then goes ahead and follows the will of the membership, even if the vote is to disband (I hope not!).




One of the proposals that I think O.U.C.H. should take is to whittle down the committees, and only focus on one or two projects per year.  I think the organization has been spread too thin, trying to do too much.

Just suggestions.

Chuck
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CAUTION:  Do NOT smoke when using or around oxygen.  Oxygen can permeate your clothing or bedding.  Wait, before lighting cigarette or flame.  

Keep fire extinguisher available, and charged.
ClusterChuck  
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Bob P
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Shut up Bob!


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Re: WTF O.U.C.H. ??
Reply #74 - Jul 6th, 2009 at 1:20pm
 
What do clusterheads want most?

A cure!

How do you find a cure?

Research!

I think that should be the main goal of OUCH, support and participate in research.  At the Atlanta convention, John from OUCH-UK spoke of our numbers being our biggest asset.  The more members OUCH has, the bigger the database to draw from.  That is why OUCH has no membership dues, so it can sign up as many suffers as possible.  That is why the old web site started surveys.  To collect info from those many members.  If you look at DJ's survey on this site, there are umpteen thousand response.  Pretty reliable info.  More specific surveys provide reliable info on treatments, demographics, etc.

Talk with the researcers to find out what we can do.  Limit OUCH's efforts to that.

I'd like to see OUCH continue (shut up Don) Wink
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Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.  "SHUT UP HUB!"
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