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It Don't Figure...! (Read 1734 times)
Lefty
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It Don't Figure...!
Jul 10th, 2009 at 7:50am
 
Recently a close friend of ours returned to work after hurting her back nursing.Due to her injury she had to stop working in theatre and retrain in taking bloods. Unfortunately she has also recently separated and has one child aged 3. Now this is the clanger....! By returning to work she is almost 150 Euro worse off than if she had stayed on social welfare.

I'll give you an e.g. of the type of benefits that a single unemployed man or woman can earn in the Irish state. I've converted it from euro to dollars.


Unemployment assistance = $283.969 per week

Housing benefit = Most common rate for renting house $194.780 in which the state pays the full whack.

Free access to a medical card. A visit to the Doc cost $69

By returning to work our friend also has to cover child care costs and travel expenses and she has to pay her own rent in full. I know social welfare is very important and I am a strong supporter of this, but there are many who take full advantage of this generosity and have no intentions of getting of their arse and getting a job.

Is America and other Countries so generous to their unemployed. Undecided


Lefty...!
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« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2009 at 7:52am by Lefty »  

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Melissa
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #1 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 8:06am
 
Well, due to my husbands job, when he was laid off in the past, he'd max out the unemployment amount.  For example, normally he brings home a NET check of anywhere between $1700-$2400 every 2 weeks.  Unemployment only will pay a maximum of $416 per week (that is from 2 years ago, which is the last time he collected.  This time he didn't even bother and we used our emergency fund to cover his lay off as well as him taking on extra side jobs like roofing and handyman work).

The medical welfare is a good one as it's all paid for by the state, but to go on welfare due to it, Jesse would have to lose his job which in turn we'd lose our house.

For us, it's definately not worth it!  But some here DO abuse the system.  Which is unfortunate because currently there are many who need it due to no fault of their own.  Fortunately, there are companies like my husband works for that do week long layoffs here and there in order for them to keep them operating and the workers in their jobs.  

I am VERY grateful every single day!
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« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2009 at 8:08am by Melissa »  

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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #2 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 8:15am
 
Lefty - And on the 7th day, the politicians created the dependence class. The politicians provided just enough for the masses to eek out a meager existence, but did not require more of them than the occasional form to be filled out.

I provide for you, you vote for me.

Democracy only works until a majority figure out that they can vote themselves a pay raise.
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monty
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #3 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 8:23am
 
Lefty wrote on Jul 10th, 2009 at 7:50am:
Is America and other Countries so generous to their unemployed. Undecided

Lefty...!


Not in my experience.  When the real estate market collapsed here about 2 years ago, I was made redundant and got unemployment insurance for a short period while looking for a new job.  The unemployment benefits were less than 1/3 of my previous salary - it provided a buffer while looking for a new job, but sure didn't encourage me to stay unemployed. There is also usually a time limit - after 8 months or a year, no more unemployment.  These policies vary from state to state ... some may be more generous, others may be rather stingy.
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« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2009 at 8:29am by monty »  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #4 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 8:25am
 
Unemployment assistance has been braced to offer a meager survival and lengthened to be realistic with the time it takes to find reemployment, but the fact remains it does run out.

My brother recently got laid off and in his case, a difficult descending blow to the household, eight kids previously well supported by two talented incomes. 

About $5000 can be applied for toward retraining, schooling.


I was unemployed in latter 2007, doing everything possible to get off it was a very anxious time, it's hard to last.
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #5 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 10:22am
 
For those accustomed to a good paying job with good benefits it doesn't match up.  However, for those on the lower rungs of the ladder when housing assistance and food stamps and Aid For Dependent Children gets thrown in it can be more than a minimum wage job pays.  Often even a bit higher than that.

As Brew said, it is enough to eak out a meager existence, but to those who are to lazy to make something of themselves it is a way to get by.

I had to take unemployment one time, and could not wait to get off of it.  I felt like I had to hang my head when I deposited the check in the bank.  I qualified for food stamps, but refused to take them. 

Unemployment insurance is something you pay for (via your employer), so it is not charity, and there is nothing wrong with using it when needed.  I was just raised with the idea that you earned what you got, and could not get by the idea of getting it for nothing.

Jerry
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #6 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 10:42am
 
my sister, like so many others in middle management was laid off a few months ago. She had been with the company 12 years though and received about 3 months severance. She's divorced, a son still at home. Her unemployment leaves her $700-800 month short of meeting her bills. She has no car payment, no credit card debt, just normal insurance, food, mortgage on a condo, etc. Fortunately the severance and vacation check she got will eek her by through about the end of the year if she is really careful.

And like so many others, she's applied for hundreds of jobs, FINALLY has had 1 interview this week with a recruiter that looks like it will lead to an interview with the prospective employer. But 200 applicants for that job!

It's very tough out there I know, and believe me, I'm not taking my job (or Joe's) for granted.
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Lefty
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #7 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 4:19pm
 
Callico wrote on Jul 10th, 2009 at 10:22am:
For those accustomed to a good paying job with good benefits it doesn't match up.  However, for those on the lower rungs of the ladder when housing assistance and food stamps and Aid For Dependent Children gets thrown in it can be more than a minimum wage job pays.  Often even a bit higher than that.

As Brew said, it is enough to eak out a meager existence, but to those who are to lazy to make something of themselves it is a way to get by.


Jerry, I couldn't have summed it up better myself. You captured the very essence of my angst. I totally understand the difficulties faced by recently laid off people with family. Social security payments will never cover the cost of bills , mortgage payments and daily living costs.

The social security payments in the UK are very bad indeed. A single man or woman will only receive $90 per week compared to the $283 you get in the Irish republic. In the last year alone a little village in Co.Cavan (pop:1100) bordering N.Ireland reported it had 3100 on it's unemployment registrar. The figures just don't add up, we call them benefit tourists over here. Why work when you can just pop over the border and get a decent enough wage for doing sweet Fanny Adams.

I don't know if it was reported in the States but recently in Belfast a large amount of Eastern Europeans were intimidated out of their homes by a group of racists thugs. Unfortunately the same story is being reported all over Ireland. The same old excuses for their actions were spouted i.e. " They are taking all our jobs" but if you were to ask one of these thugs to apply for a hotel or hospital porter job they would laugh in your face or more likely punch you in it.

I think more pressure should be put on these people to actually get of their arses and contribute to society. Schemes similar to which Kevin M mentioned like $5000 can be applied for toward retraining and schooling. We do have training schemes over here but there a bit of a joke. They basically a ploy by the Government  to get numbers  of the live registrar so it doesn't look as bad.




Lefty...!



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"When money's tight and is hard to get
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #8 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 4:33pm
 
I cannot understand the mentality that thinks people should be bribed to do what's right.
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monty
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #9 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 5:39pm
 
Lefty wrote on Jul 10th, 2009 at 4:19pm:
Why work when you can just pop over the border and get a decent enough wage for doing sweet Fanny Adams.  


Yeah, I guess being a gigolo is always an option, and it's not really work. At least not if you do it right.

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« Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2009 at 7:14pm by monty »  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
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cavalier
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #10 - Jul 10th, 2009 at 8:20pm
 
How’s it hanging young man?
Nice pics by the way.
Some of us have been brought up to stand on our own two feet in situations like this.
I too are one of the great unemployed and although it doesn’t look likely for one reason or another that I was going to get that job to pay my way in life, I have opted for another route.
I realise I’m fortunate to be able to live off savings but they are!! savings that have been accumulated over a lot of years hard and dedicated work.
“It’s just as well!!”
To fight your way past the queue of drunk or doped up regulars at the local jobcentre (yes I know they’re not all like that.) that is required from my insurers, is pretty demeaning, and to be asked from this unsmiling grey figure behind the desk “where have you been looking over the past 2 weeks”
Now this would be a sensible question if is wasn’t for the fact that I’m sitting in front of him showing all the applied for jobs listed, recruitment agencies, names, phone numbers, responses, search engines, E mail addresses are they hot or cold, how far etc.
All for the princely sum of £64 per week.
Now considering my mortgage alone is over £185 per week, they’re not really giving me anything.
Today in the post, I’ve received notification that after 182 days that assistance will stop, I’m currently on 167.
After I received my redundancy pay which was capped because it was paid by the government the £64 per week was deducted for 12weeks as deemed pay.

If I’d bummed around didn’t have a mortgage, didn’t save and scrounged all my life.

You know something,

Yes you’ve guessed it, I’d get more help.

Here’s one for you.
I’ve got a sixteen year old niece who’s trying to get pregnant if you can believe that!! so she can have her own home supplied by the state.
Shake my bloody head in disbelief.
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #11 - Jul 11th, 2009 at 12:17am
 
If you have had the unfortunate bit of bad luck to have been caught in the whirlpool of the recent down turn and have paid into the unemployment insurance program than you should feel no shame in receiving funds that is part of an agreement that you participated in. It is an agreement.

Also, I have no problem with providing assistance for training or re-training and along with that additional funds to help one through the rough patches. It's part of being Human and our ability to experience empathy. After all, helping someone from being a taker verses a life of stability and becoming a giver is most certainly preferred.

But along with being human some may do the math and choose to work the system instead of working in general. I mean, why bother when you have several layers of social mechanisms standing by to facilitate the notion of just getting by. The net provided has a tendency to become a bed in which offers a slight bit of comfort and at the same time destines one to atrophy and ultimately resulting in an inability to get out of the bed of complacency entirely.

Generations, having been raised in this nanny state have resulted in an ever doomed segment of society blocked out slightest notion of living any differently. The concept of rising above is limited to the few and those without that slight bit of hope and courage are left to continue in an unproductive existence.

On our trips the the Smokys, we cannot help but notice the incredible infrastructure built by the folks who signed up to work for the CCC and WPA programs of the depression years. We drive through City Park in New Orleans and notice the dates, in relief, on the structures built by our ancestors.

I guess I am one of the many bad things some can say about my cruel beliefs.  I am however perplexed about why, when there is so much to do, do we not insist something in return for the generosity.

Again, there is some much that needs to be repaired, built and provided. What's wrong with requiring input? I am certain that the stone masons, along with all the other bridge building participants, walked away from those beautiful arched works of art with a sense of pride, worth, accomplishment and the invaluable knowledge gathered in that journey.

This is not even possible today. What a total loss. What a prison.

I'd rather be dead.

Steve G
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #12 - Jul 11th, 2009 at 6:52am
 
   As a Commercial Fisherman I don't receive Unemployment Insurance or Workmens Compensation. You buy an Annuity Policy or two and pay into them over the years and your own medical insurance. Both of which you know damn well you're going to need. I don't know of any state agency that will help a Fisherman that falls on hard times. If you get hurt too bad to work, SSDI only pays a little over $800 a month. So when you buy your first licencse and foulweather gear, your next stop better be your insurance agent. Because like other professionals you need to insure yourself against damages.

Smiley
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #13 - Jul 11th, 2009 at 8:13am
 
Hey Lefty,

My sis is in South Wales and yes, it was the same. She had to leave uni in her 2nd year after becoming pregnant with my nephew. She wanted to return but the uni creche had an 18mth waiting list and she couldn't get extra funding or student loan to help with private childcare if she returned as a student.

However, when she had Ollie, she was just classed as 'unemployed' and got full benefits which were WAY over what she would have needed just to cover childcare while she studied! She did go to work when he was a year old and has struggled ever since. She couldn't finish her teaching degree and now works for a car insurance company. Admittedly, after 3 years there, she's now in their training and development team doing something similar to her uni training, but the salary is nowhere near what she would earn as a teacher (and not her dream career either).

It seems to me that if you're wanting to help yourself or better yourself, the UK govt make it more difficult, or rather easier to get money for nothing. I still wonder that if my sister wasn't the kind of person she is, where would her incentive have been to better herself and get out in the world.

For all those who are in the position of redundancies etc, I am all in favour of a system that supports people in times of need - I'm not bashing people who need this, especially at the moment. But I do question people who abuse the system, and the system itself, which seems flawed.

PS - Cav - my sis was almost 20 when she had my nephew. She never became eligible for a house or a flat from the council because she wasn't high enough on the priority list. She was living with my parents and then renting the most horrible flat in the whole world. So it's not a guarantee that yourIn the end, she gave up asking because it had been over 2 years and she decided to start saving for a house. She's just put an offer in on her first house yesterday. Fingers crossed.
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #14 - Jul 11th, 2009 at 9:23am
 
Oooo, good luck to her Em!!!
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Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way.  ~Bernie S. Siegel
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #15 - Jul 12th, 2009 at 12:44am
 
In 1969 I was fired from my job at a veterinary hospital in Utica, NY. The Vet told me to apply for unemployment. This was something that never crossed my mind but at his suggestion, I got $43 a week for four months until I got another job. I had very few expenses and moved into a better place with a friend. It was not meant as income but something to let you get by while job hunting. God I was young and almost as dumb then as I am now.

I haven't seen many real success stories about retraining people for the job market. Of course part of that is that only the failures make good news copy. In most cases, the abuse starts with the government itself which goes out of its way to let the wrong people get the most from the system. The medical profession is a great example. An awful lot of it sees Medicaid and Medicare as nothing more than an endless revenue stream. They do their worst to bleed it dry. The level of abuse at the top of this system is stunning.

Unlike Wall Street Bankers, I have to justify my disability eligibility every six months. It's probably a good thing actually. I certainly don't have a lot but I have no reason to complain. I have never incurred debt of any kind and my father paid off the mortage in 7 years back in 1970. He dropped dead not long after they had a mortgage burning party but he left mom in good shape. People told me for 30 years that I was an idiot for not applying for SSD. I didn't feel that way and even made enough to pay some taxes over those years. My family would have killed me if I had looked into it too.

It's a weird system but then everything humans get involved in seems like that.

Charlie
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #16 - Jul 12th, 2009 at 9:19am
 
Charlie wrote on Jul 12th, 2009 at 12:44am:
In most cases, the abuse starts with the government itself which goes out of its way to let the wrong people get the most from the system.

And right there, folks, is your quote of the month.

Very nicely crafted, Charlie.
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Re: It Don't Figure...!
Reply #17 - Jul 12th, 2009 at 10:42am
 
Wisconsin's maximum Unemployment benefit is $363.00/wk with an additional payment of $25.00/wk federal stimulus payment for a total of $388.00/wk.  Even if a person had made 80K a year and gets laid off, this is the max one can get.  This is with no taxes withheld.

Like Christy's sister, I've also applied/sent resumes to hundreds of jobs, had a few interviews, but yes there are at least 200 others, many times more, who are in competition for the same spot.

I just learned this week that the Mid Level Manager that put my neck in the noose and hung me out to dry last fall was let go Thursday himself in the latest round of layoffs. 

Wonder what happened to his company paid Cadillac?
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