So here it is..

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In 2006 they had 52 self-report on the effectiveness of psilocybin. About half of them said it completely terminated their annual cycle. The doctors involved in that study said further research may be warranted. Now obviously self-reported studies with no control group and no random sampling are obviously not the best source for good data but it makes me a little curious to say the least. Was anymore research ever done? Has anyone here ever tried it? Does anyone want to try it? Does anybody have any for sale? (probably shouldn't answer that last one)

I'd guess most all of the 52 are or have been participants of this message board.

Visit Clusterbusters.com for more info.

I am one who has had tremendous if not miraculous results with clusterbusters.
RC seeds are my weapon of choice. Very similar to Psilocybin.

For any understanding of how and why these drugs work for CH one must understand the areas in the mind and body they work on.

Concrete studies with CH are few and far between, but a lot of work has been done through sufferers like you and I. The survey you mention above is one.
LSA bearing seeds, Psylocybin, LSD are all tryptophans and research in this area reveals a lot. The effects on serotonin are what appears to be the action we need. Understanding what little we know can help in the decision process for a curious mind.

Psylocibyn has been used to break addictions from alcohol and other drugs and is itself non addictive.

The success of the clusterbuster treatments on CH appear to be around 80% (correct me if I'm wrong Bob W)

Heres a little reading to get started with.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or    This link covers a lot of area but you can begin to understand the 5Ht receptors and the role in CH.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or    A good review of headaches and the chemical makeups.
"advances in functional brain imaging clearly suggest that vascular changes are not the primary cause for head pain in  cluster headache, experimental and clinical data suggest an activation of the trigeminal innervation of the cranial circulation with involvement of vasoactive neuropeptides such as CGRP"

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or   A serotonin review worthy of reading.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or The largest assemblage of knowledge in regards to CH.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to or   and another pile of links.

Maps.org  has information and studies regarding psilocybin, cluster headaches, and the ceasing of drug and alcohol addictions.

I think most who use these methods take sub halucinogenic doses and feel very little effect other than the cessation of CH.

Quote:
To my knowledge there are none.

I am one of the 52.  I am also a recovering alcoholic.  The shrooms didn't work for me.  Nor did they knock me off the wagon.  In fact, I didn't like the experience at all (tremors, chills, anxiety) and choose not to go back there again.

However, I will try RC seeds if my CH ever returns.

Hmmmm........"Why to use it?"

Let me count thy reasons.
1. EVERY manufactured prophylactic / abortive med I had tried over a lengthy and (in my opinion) lab rat like period of time had SERIOUS side effects. If these side effects were not sudden (tunnel vision while driving, lethargy, rebound headaches) the long term effects (serious liver damage, heart attack) where scary as hell.

2. NOTHING worked for me.....ever. No relief except for pure O2 and that was only some of the time when I was actually near it.

3. Attacks were coming closer together (gap was closing) and the length and intensity were increasing substantially. Oh yeah, did I mention that NOTHING worked!

Since discovering this alternative I have had the following experience of the last 6 years of so (give or take a year).

- Completely aborted an attack mid cycle - Gone / Gone / Gone for good.

- Completely SKIPPED a scheduled attack by prevent method. Never shadowed never happened. I know this to be true as I had NEVER missed a scheduled attack in many many years.

- Got lazy, skipped a prevent and did a half assed prevent when shadows came back. Never got above a kip 6 hit, only got hit sporadically sometimes every other day only once, cycle disappeared with a whimper and never took hold of me or my life.

The real question here is 9if you have tried everything else) would one NOT try this. I am completely drug free, have NO FEAR of the once terrorizing Beast (now just an annoyance) and have complete control of my life NO DOCTORS or BS LAB RAT experiences / side effects / ect ect ect.....

I theorize that some on this board like the community feel of suffering together and some just like the attention / sympathy that this condition can generate. I know (personally) some who are just not ok with the alternative and will forever suffer through the hell of it for reasons that they understandable hold dear to themselves.

One day, the work put in by the pioneers of this method (the folks serious about moving on) will be looked upon as the aspirin is to modern day regular headaches, it only a matter of time.

For those of you who continue to suffer, I do empathize with you but want you to know that you can one day be free again. It is amazing how much more the freedom means once you have lost it to the beast and regained it though nature and not some quacks prescription pad.

OK - Off of my high horse for now....carry on.

"as I'm an alcoholic and have abused many drugs in the past"

reply:"Due to the discussion of LSD as a workable CH treatment and the possible conflicts with my overall recovery program, I asked my sponsor group for advice.
I was surprised to find support for the use of LSD by the recovery group, especially in the older more sober group. It seems Bill W, AA's founder, used LSD to fight depression, with success.
Last night I was given an AA-approved book, "Pass It On", which devotes a whole chapter to Bill W's use of LSD. This is AA's official biography of the organization's founder. The reading is facinating.
It seems he quit public support of LSD in order to maintain AA unity, but he himself never stood against it.
Further, it seems, that his depression was blamed on an incompete spiritual conversion, a situation he sought to remedy with assistance from LSD. Within a year of starting use of LSD, his depression left never to return.
My concern with making this post on CHMB is to drag the topic into the sunlight for those in recovery considering the LSD treatment. I do not want to start a discussion on the difference between organic and psychological depression, nor on the linkage between depression and CH.
I wonder if someone in the NY City area could go to AA's GSO office to investigate what AA has on-file about CH. The number of CH'ers in recovery is too great for them to be ignorant of the condition. I think this is the kind of thing which would require a personal visit."---sorry,I don't remember who said this.


Why to try it?
  I think the why being asked for here is more of why it works.One of the best theorries I've seen for this is from Pinksharkmark (one of the 1st clusterbusters) "Lately I've been doing a lot of research on chemical structures based on the "indole ring" and trying to puzzle out why sumatriptan (Imitrex, Imigran) or ergot compounds (ergotamine, cafergot, sansert) only work temporarily, while hallucinogens such as LSD or psilocybin work for several months to a year.
What is immediately apparent is that both sumatriptan and psilocybin are VERY closely related. Psilocybin is basically phosporated DMT (di-methyl triptamine), while Imitrex is basically sulphonated DMT.
-- anthropological side note --
DMT is a hallucinogenic alkaloid used ritually by many South American tribes. It occurs naturally in the bark and roots of a vine native to the Amazon basin. They brew up a tea of this vine with harmaline (a potent MAO inhibitor) and drink it in order to see mystic visions and receive guidance from the animal spirits, especially the jaguar and the python. The brew is called Ayahuasca. So far I haven't come across any references regarding the use of ayahuasca to treat headaches, but my guess is that it would work quite well.
-- side note finished --
Just as sumatriptan and psilocybin are chemical "kissing cousins", LSD and Sansert (methysergide) are also very closely related. Both are derived from ergotamine.
Given this close chemical link between sumatriptan and psilocybin/psilocin, (and ergot compounds and LSD) it is likely that the two classes of drugs will interact in some way, which is why I advocate abstinence from any of the ergot compounds and triptans before taking LSD or psilocybin.

Despite their closely related chemical structure, there is a major difference between the effect of the ergot compounds and the triptans (sumatriptan, zolmitriptan, naratriptan and all) and the effect of the hallucinogens. The ergots/triptans will keep you painfree only while they are in your bloodstream. The hallucinogens, too, will keep you painfree while they are in your bloodstream. BUT a hallucinogen will also keep you painfree for MONTHS after every last trace of it has vanished from your body. The only logical explanation for this result is that the hallucinogens act as a catalyst for some subtle alteration in brain chemistry that is semi-permanent. In other words, it is not the hallucinogen per se that stops the cycle, but rather the ALTERATION it has made to your synaptic vesicles or your 5HT-2A receptor sites or your hypothalamus or whatever.
Envision a coiled spring in a cylinder with a hinged lid over it. The lid has a latch on it. Bump the latch hard enough and the lid opens, releasing the spring. If you push the spring back down into its cylinder, flip the lid shut and place a heavy ball of ice directly top of it (leaving the latch open), the spring is confined. Once the ice melts, the spring pops out again, since the lid is still unlatched.
But, if you push the spring back into its cylinder, close the lid and reset the latch the spring will be confined until the next time the latch is bumped hard enough to open.
Ergot/triptan is like the ball of ice. It confines the cluster headache (spring) temporarily, but it doesn't correct the basic problem -- the open latch. A hallucinogen, on the other hand, closes the open lid AND resets the latch. The spring (cluster) is confined until the latch gets bumped again.
In normal people, no matter how hard you bump the latch, it won't open. Clusterheads have a faulty latch. In the case of a chronic, the latch will never close on its own. In the case of an episodic, the latch closes on its own for long periods of time, then opens for a while, sort of like a time lock in a bank vault.
The 64 million dollar question is:
If the hallucinogens and the ergot/triptans are so similar in chemical structure, WHY do the former close the latch but the latter simply sit on the lid for a while, leaving the latch open?
The only logical explanation I can come up with is that the same quirk in the structure of a hallucinogen that creates its profound mental impact (in high enough doses) also gives it the ability to "close the latch". In other words, if a hallucinogen weren't "hallucinogenic", it wouldn't work.
The best-known example of trying to "de-hallucinogenize" a hallucinogen is methysergide (Sansert), which was deliberately created by Sandoz hoping it would be as effective against migraines as LSD was known to be, but without any hallucinogenic side effects. Methysergide is basically LSD with the "pizazz" removed. The problem is, this new, crippled LSD not only doesn't let you see visions, it is also significantly less effective at stopping cluster cycles. In essence, Sandoz "threw out the baby with the bathwater".
Given the close similarity between sumatriptan (sulphonated DMT) and psilocybin (phosporated DMT), I wonder if the researchers at Glaxo were trying to do the same thing as their Sandoz colleagues? Were they deliberately trying to create a non-hallucinogenic version of psilocybin? Unfortunately, they achieved the same result: their psilocybin with the "pizazz" removed doesn't stop cluster cycles.
Unlike Q (an ex-chronic clusterhead who has been painfree for months now thanks to LSD), I DON'T think that it is the altered mental state ("hallucinations", if you must) per se that stops the cluster cycle, since so many have reported complete success with doses that just barely yield a noticeable "buzz". These people were FAR from the mental state that LSD and psilocybin are notorious for, yet their "latches" have been closed nonetheless.
No, I believe that it is more of a "catalytic" effect. The hallucinogen TRIGGERS a series of events in the body's own brain chemistry that achieves two separate results: altered perception AND a normalization of the faulty serotonin-regulating mechanism that causes clusters. Once the hallucinogen dissipates, perception returns to normal, and the serotonin-regulating mechanism STAYS normal.
Of course, since we clusterheads are defective, the serotonin-regulating mechanism drifts out of whack again after several months or a year or so, and the process must be repeated.
Damn. I really miss GaryG. I bet he would have some useful input to this theorizing of mine. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Miguel? Ueli? BobP? Is there a neuropharmacologist in the house?
pinky"

Hey Guiseppi, sorry about the misunderstanding. This was not directed at anyone in particular but I have met a few who fall into this group.

Yes, I have had only two freekin posts under this name but my experience with the board goes back about ten years. I simply fell out as I chose to end my suffering and moved on. Kinda like a traumatic life experience, it is natural to try to remove ones self after the event has passed.

There was also a level of frustration with watching people continue to poison themselves, a slow death, with all the prescriptions. It is hard to watch your friends killing themselves and I could not continue to watch another heart attack or suicide attempt.

Anyway, I do come back every now and then and thought it was time to once again share my experience of finding a way out with those who have not already decied to just live with the condition.

There is a better way and I still believe it will be the basis for an eventual cure.

Peace - The Cheese   

May I suggest that if you are new to this site or have been lurking for a while that you do some reading around here.  This topic has been around for a long time.

I, too took part in this Harvard study.  Number #49, thank you very much.

I, too am insulted by the same comment that Guiseppi was.  "sorry about the misunderstanding"   really wasn't an apoology at all.   

I also would like to point you to the very first page of this site that DJ started 11 years ago. from DJ's advice to newcomers:

    Quote:


When you said this... Quote:
  red flags went up all over.

There are so very many threads here for you to read regarding this subject.  Please take the time to do so.  You will find a very long one titled will the 75 to 80 % of you stand up"   very enlightening.

Please do not let my being offended drive you away from the board, I became a moderator specifically to avoid that behaviour.

My objection was not to the shroom therapy. I've been in law enforcement 29 years, so it's not an option for me. I have referred numerous people to the busters site when other treatments failed,.....It was the broad brush with which I felt you painted the majority of us.

Joe

Alright. Thank you for the replies everyone. First let me state that I was completely joking when I asked if anyone had some for sale, that is why I included the "(you probably shouldn't answer that)" after I said it. I also did try to do some searches on the board before i brought up the question but when I searched psilocybin or mushrooms I got 0 matches.

I was probably looking more for a biological explanation as to why to use psilocybin when I posed the question but the other answers provided good information as well.

I've recently began using oxygen for my cluster headaches and that works... so long as I'm going through tanks and tanks of it for a long time. So between that and Imitrex at this point I don't have to take a full on headache but I do have to be using the crap out of oxygen and imitrex.

So basically provided this information here I have some good ideas as to the biological means that psilocybin provides in influencing cluster headaches. I also feel that there is some degree of success in peoples use of it. Now I guess the only last thing I'm wondering is how to actually go about using it. I know I can get some through people (I'm a musician in my mid-twenties in a very liberal part of town, another reason why I wasn't serious when I asked if anyone had some for sale). Mainly what I'm wondering though is how much I should take. Has there been any evaluation as to the dosages and at what threshold they become effective? Can I just orally ingest an 1/8th of a cap and be fine?

I really really don't want to hallucinate or trip of mushrooms I have a lifetime of bad anxiety and depression and drug addiction behind me. Im not so much worried about getting hooked on mushrooms, actually i'm not worried about that at all. I guess most of my worry is about freaking out, as that's what has happened when I used to try hallucinogens recreationaly as a teen. I'm really just wanting to take as little as possible so I don't have to experience any of the, in this case, side effects of tripping and just abort my cycle.

Tanks and Tanks of 02?

May I ask you HOW you're using it?  What kind of a regulator and how many LPM?  What kind of a mask?

excellrec wrote on Jul 21^st, 2009 at 12:39pm:


All the basic information you need canbe found on the Mushroom FAQ pages on Clusterbusters.com

You don't need recreational doses of mushrooms. As a matter of fact, this is not a "more is better" situation.

If you have specific dosing questions after reading everything on CB.com (including the WARNING page) send me an email and I'll see if I can help you out.

Bobw
weighing your dose is important. Its not an "eyeball" thing.

The 'criticise normal medication' and 'advertise shrooms seeds etc' is geting a bit tiresome...

...and repetitive...

...and comments like this:

'There was also a level of frustration with watching people continue to poison themselves, a slow death, with all the prescriptions. It is hard to watch your friends killing themselves and I could not continue to watch another heart attack or suicide attempt.'

...do not help at all.

We are nor poisoning ourselves, we are not dying any slow deaths and we are not having heart attacks here and there. We are taking medications and for sure we need to be careful of side effects but most of us are getting results (some great some less so). I spent my first cycle without medication, being a zombie for 2 months, not able to do anything. During my second cycle I decided to go to a doctor...2 months down the road and my loss was 1 day that I didn't go to work and a very small number of headaches. So please think twice before you scare people out of using medication...

Also it takes a lot of nerve to criticise medication and then promote illegal substances with no safe method to control their dose. For sure, it is an adult's choice to use them and they might do wonders and be the medication of choice in the future, but demonising existing medication is a 'below the belt' hit.

Sorry if I sound too harsh