Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Clusterheadaches.com
 
Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterEvent CalendarBirthday List  
 





Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
IRS - making its presence felt abroad... (Read 3595 times)
Shawn
Ex Member



Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #25 - Jul 22nd, 2009 at 7:00pm
 
We are very quickly reaching the point where a small percentage of taxpayers are footing the bill for entire population.  The top 50% of wage earners already pay over 96% of all the taxes in the USA.  The top 5% of wage earners paid an astounding 53% of all taxes in the USA, and that was in 2001. 

Ah, social justice.  Serves them damn wage earners right.

It stands to reason, when people have the choice between achievement and sloth with no penalty for choosing sloth, the majority will choose sloth.  This is why your system is doomed to fail, Charlie.  And when it does, I fully expect you to blame Bush.


Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Charlie
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Happy to be here


Posts: 18971
Jamestown, NY
Gender: male
Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #26 - Jul 23rd, 2009 at 10:21am
 
Quote:
This is why your system is doomed to fail, Charlie.  And when it does, I fully expect you to blame Bush.


Even I will have a hard time with that. My guess is that he slowed the tax rate increase on the upper end for several years.

From my experience the whole country benefited in the 50s when rates were really hard on everybody. Percentages mean more to the lower end as far as effect.

Warren Buffett says that it's nuts that he has the same or and some cases lower rate than some waitress making $20,000 per year.

Charlie

Back to top
  

There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
135447360 mondocharlie mondocharlie  
IP Logged
 
monty
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline




Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida
Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #27 - Jul 23rd, 2009 at 11:23am
 
Shawn wrote on Jul 22nd, 2009 at 7:00pm:
...  The top 5% of wage earners paid an astounding 53% of all taxes in the USA, and that was in 2001.  


Not so astounding when you consider the fact that the top end of the population makes more. A lot more. The person making $15,000 a year (or $30,000)  doesn't have much left after paying for things like food, housing, a car, etc ...  it makes sense for the people on the bottom to pay less, and the people at the top to pay more. But the shift is not as much as you suggest, since the top 5% are already making far, far more than 5% of the income.

The top 5 percent owns over 60 percent of the wealth in the US. Over the past 3 decades, the tax structure has been changed to benefit the wealthy, than you very much.  In the late 1970s, the top one percent of the US population held 13 percent of the wealth; in 1995 it held 38 percent.

Your reference to 'wage earners' above is interesting ... the typical capital gains tax rate (for investments) has dropped to 15%, which is less than many working people pay on their wages.  Inherit money and do nothing for a living ... 15% tax. Work hard for a middle class living ... pay 20% to 30% in taxes.  That doesn't sound like the wealthy getting soaked to me.




Back to top
  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
IP Logged
 
wildhaus
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 860
Wildhaus|Switzerland
Gender: male
Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #28 - Jul 23rd, 2009 at 12:13pm
 
monty wrote on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 11:23am:
(...........)
The top 5 percent owns over 60 percent of the wealth in the US. Over the past 3 decades, the tax structure has been changed to benefit the wealthy,
(............)


Monty,
you make it sound like the rich steal the money.......
many of them do work very hard for it...... and have to sacrifice
a lot for the wealth!

To be rich is not a crime! ........
nor should it seem like birth defect......

BTW, most of the (top) rich are entrepreneurs that provide a work
place for many individuals.......  Allen, Paul Gardner or Gates, William Henry III
and the list is very long......
if they get rich in the process we all win!
and I am happy for them....... and envy (in a positive way) them and respect them.......

How much tax should they pay..... (?) I don’t know,

I dont like to pay tax.... why should the be defferent?

I only know that we should support them and learn from them, they are
the ones that are the engine of the economy...... the force that provides jobs.......
not like governments that use money..... and have no economical
responsibility......  the tax payer will pay..... and cover the hole....
or simply let the hole get bigger..... the next generation will pay (or not)
This phenomena / attitude is not only a USA phenomena / attitude.....
it is all over the western world!!!

Michael
Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
monty
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline




Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida
Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #29 - Jul 23rd, 2009 at 1:24pm
 
wildhaus wrote on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 12:13pm:
Monty,
you make it sound like the rich steal the money.......



I didn't say that at all - my point is that that if the top 5% makes 35% or 40% of the income, then a fair system might start with them paying 35% or 40% of income taxes. If the system is adjusted to give people on the bottom a break, then shifting the load for the top group from 40% to 50% is not horrific as Shawn made it sound.  They are still managing to accumulate more wealth than the bottom 95% combined, so they are clearly not being stripped of the fruits of their labor in a punitive tax system ... they are prospering over the past decades (unlike the majority of hardworking people in the middle, who see their real income stagnant).  



Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 1:32pm by monty »  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
IP Logged
 
Kevin_M
CH.com Sponsor
***
Offline


withered branches grow
green again.


Posts: 8754
Michigan, USA
Gender: male
Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #30 - Jul 23rd, 2009 at 10:33pm
 
Quote:
The top 50% of wage earners already pay over 96% of all the taxes in the USA.  The top 5% of wage earners paid an astounding 53% of all taxes in the USA, and that was in 2001.




Apart from the genie's "I told you so" website, other info:



 



($ = billions)  source: IRS



Adjusted Gross Income


2001


top 5%       $1,996

top 50%      $5,379

bottom 50%   $862





2006

top 5%       $2,978     +49%

top 50%      $7,106     +32%

bottom 50%   $1,016     +18%

-----------------------------

% share of AGI

2001

top 5%      31.99%

top 50%     86.19%

bottom 50%  13.81%



2006

top 5%      36.66%     +4.67%

top 50%     87.49%     +1.3%

bottom 50%  12.51%     -1.3%

------------------------------





monty wrote on Jul 23rd, 2009 at 1:24pm:
the top 5% ... are still managing to accumulate more wealth ...


If AGI is too narrow, a much larger diverging between top and bottom has been reported using marketable wealth and financial wealth.

Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2009 at 10:48pm by Kevin_M »  
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print

DISCLAIMER: All information contained on this web site is for informational purposes only.  It is in no way intended to be used as a replacement for professional medical treatment.   clusterheadaches.com makes no claims as to the scientific/clinical validity of the information on this site OR to that of the information linked to from this site.  All information taken from the internet should be discussed with a medical professional!