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IRS - making its presence felt abroad... (Read 3622 times)

Shawn

Ex Member

Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #25 - Jul 22^nd, 2009 at 7:00pm

We are very quickly reaching the point where a small percentage of taxpayers are footing the bill for entire population. The top 50% of wage earners already pay over 96% of all the taxes in the USA. The top 5% of wage earners paid an astounding 53% of all taxes in the USA, and that was in 2001.

Ah, social justice. Serves them damn wage earners right.

It stands to reason, when people have the choice between achievement and sloth with no penalty for choosing sloth, the majority will choose sloth. This is why your system is doomed to fail, Charlie. And when it does, I fully expect you to blame Bush.

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Charlie

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Happy to be here

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Jamestown, NY
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Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #26 - Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 10:21am

Quote:

This is why your system is doomed to fail, Charlie. And when it does, I fully expect you to blame Bush.

Even I will have a hard time with that. My guess is that he slowed the tax rate increase on the upper end for several years.

From my experience the whole country benefited in the 50s when rates were really hard on everybody. Percentages mean more to the lower end as far as effect.

Warren Buffett says that it's nuts that he has the same or and some cases lower rate than some waitress making $20,000 per year.

Charlie

There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill

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monty

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The Swamp, Florida

Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #27 - Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 11:23am

Shawn wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2009 at 7:00pm:

... The top 5% of wage earners paid an astounding 53% of all taxes in the USA, and that was in 2001.

Not so astounding when you consider the fact that the top end of the population makes more. A lot more. The person making $15,000 a year (or $30,000) doesn't have much left after paying for things like food, housing, a car, etc ... it makes sense for the people on the bottom to pay less, and the people at the top to pay more. But the shift is not as much as you suggest, since the top 5% are already making far, far more than 5% of the income.

The top 5 percent owns over 60 percent of the wealth in the US. Over the past 3 decades, the tax structure has been changed to benefit the wealthy, than you very much. In the late 1970s, the top one percent of the US population held 13 percent of the wealth; in 1995 it held 38 percent.

Your reference to 'wage earners' above is interesting ... the typical capital gains tax rate (for investments) has dropped to 15%, which is less than many working people pay on their wages. Inherit money and do nothing for a living ... 15% tax. Work hard for a middle class living ... pay 20% to 30% in taxes. That doesn't sound like the wealthy getting soaked to me.

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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wildhaus

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Wildhaus|Switzerland
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Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #28 - Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 12:13pm

monty wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 11:23am:

(...........)
The top 5 percent owns over 60 percent of the wealth in the US. Over the past 3 decades, the tax structure has been changed to benefit the wealthy,
(............)

Monty,
you make it sound like the rich steal the money.......
many of them do work very hard for it...... and have to sacrifice
a lot for the wealth!

To be rich is not a crime! ........
nor should it seem like birth defect......

BTW, most of the (top) rich are entrepreneurs that provide a work
place for many individuals....... Allen, Paul Gardner or Gates, William Henry III
and the list is very long......
if they get rich in the process we all win!
and I am happy for them....... and envy (in a positive way) them and respect them.......

How much tax should they pay..... (?) I don’t know,

I dont like to pay tax.... why should the be defferent?

I only know that we should support them and learn from them, they are
the ones that are the engine of the economy...... the force that provides jobs.......
not like governments that use money..... and have no economical
responsibility...... the tax payer will pay..... and cover the hole....
or simply let the hole get bigger..... the next generation will pay (or not)
This phenomena / attitude is not only a USA phenomena / attitude.....
it is all over the western world!!!

Michael

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

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monty

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The Swamp, Florida

Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #29 - Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 1:24pm

wildhaus wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 12:13pm:

Monty,
you make it sound like the rich steal the money.......

I didn't say that at all - my point is that that if the top 5% makes 35% or 40% of the income, then a fair system might start with them paying 35% or 40% of income taxes. If the system is adjusted to give people on the bottom a break, then shifting the load for the top group from 40% to 50% is not horrific as Shawn made it sound. They are still managing to accumulate more wealth than the bottom 95% combined, so they are clearly not being stripped of the fruits of their labor in a punitive tax system ... they are prospering over the past decades (unlike the majority of hardworking people in the middle, who see their real income stagnant).

« Last Edit: Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 1:32pm by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Kevin_M

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withered branches grow
green again.

Posts: 8754
Michigan, USA
Gender: male

Re: IRS - making its presence felt abroad...
Reply #30 - Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 10:33pm

Quote:

The top 50% of wage earners already pay over 96% of all the taxes in the USA. The top 5% of wage earners paid an astounding 53% of all taxes in the USA, and that was in 2001.

Apart from the genie's "I told you so" website, other info:

($ = billions) source: IRS

Adjusted Gross Income

2001

top 5% $1,996

top 50% $5,379

bottom 50% $862

2006

top 5% $2,978 +49%

top 50% $7,106 +32%

bottom 50% $1,016 +18%

-----------------------------

% share of AGI

2001

top 5% 31.99%

top 50% 86.19%

bottom 50% 13.81%

2006

top 5% 36.66% +4.67%

top 50% 87.49% +1.3%

bottom 50% 12.51% -1.3%

------------------------------

monty wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 1:24pm:

the top 5% ... are still managing to accumulate more wealth ...

If AGI is too narrow, a much larger diverging between top and bottom has been reported using marketable wealth and financial wealth.

« Last Edit: Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 10:48pm by Kevin_M »

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