Click this link to read a post I like on the clusterheadaches.com message board...

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's Reply #25 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 2:47pm Melissa wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 2:41pm: Brew wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 2:38pm: That was a joke, right? No. Check out the history: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
Back to top	Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Brew

CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Posts: 14163

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #26 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 3:12pm

Melissa wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 2:47pm:

Melissa wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 2:41pm:

Brew wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 2:38pm:

That was a joke, right?

No.

Check out the history: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Don't need to, Mel. I know that's what the proponents of the 16th amendment said at the time. It was supposed to be a joke, as in "show me a politician that couldn't help themselves spending other people's money." They'll tell us it's temporary, and some of us believe them.

Back to top

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand

IP Logged

Melissa

CH.com Moderator
CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Don't give up!

Posts: 7238
Central WI, USA
Gender: female

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #27 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 6:39pm

Sick, isn't it Brew?

Off on a tangent, I can understand the want/need for social programs, but the problem with it, is it's coming off the backs of working America. If we went to just a sales & use tax, eliminating the income tax (plus instilling tarrifs on imports), and it were transparent so the public can see just where the sales tax money is going, things might just turn around and head in the right direction.

Until then, I'll just wait here, grow old and die. Perhaps I'll be able to watch it happen from afar during my great-great-grandkids lives. Undecided

Back to top

Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel

IP Logged

monty

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #28 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 6:58pm

BarbaraD wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 2:05pm:

Monty, you're right about the percentage number. 23% of 130 is 29.9 (basic math on mark ups), but what does that have to do with the price of eggs? Undecided

(I've been trying to explain mark-ups to clients for years.)

Well, when people are pushing a tax plan that claims to be 23%, and it turns out it is actually 30% based on the way that taxes are normally calculated, that should raise a few flags. To put it in terms of eggs, it means that a 'fair tax' would make eggs 30% more expensive than they are now!

Edited to add: went to the grocery store last night. The large container of eggs I bought were $2.99. With the fair tax, those eggs would cost $3.89. That would be an increase of 30%. Anyone who bills the fair tax as a 23% tax is not being fair.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 12^th, 2009 at 8:23am by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

IP Logged

Charlie

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Happy to be here

Posts: 18971
Jamestown, NY
Gender: male

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #29 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 7:18pm

It's simple. Zillionaires are all for a flat tax. Sadly, the number of them that care more about the country than their bottom lines has shrunk to 19th century levels. I don't mind people making tons of money so long as they treat the country that allows it with a modicum of decency.

In the 1950s, the whole country prospered at historic levels. Why do you suppose that is.....all of us chipped in.

We are in the 21st century with 300 million citizens in a world that is increasingly complex. It's become impossible to exist as what we like to be without expensive governments. That's just the way it is.

Charlie

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 11^th, 2009 at 7:24pm by Charlie »

There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill

IP Logged

Shawn

Ex Member

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #30 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 7:56pm

Charlie,

You view is so skewed, it's laughable. You consistently demonize the rich as if they don't pair their fair share, when the reality is that they pay the lion's share of taxes. The stats are right there for you to look at, yet you insist that somehow it is all lies and hand waving to cover up the fact that they are all greedy bastards. The bottom 50% in earners in this country pay nearly nothing when compared to the top 5% of earners. You, being on the receiving end of this incredible largess, should be a little more appreciative but instead you act like they are all criminals.

-Shawn

Back to top

IP Logged

Brew

CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Posts: 14163

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #31 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 8:59pm

Quote:

I don't mind people making tons of money so long as they treat the country that allows it with a modicum of decency.

People are America, Charlie. We own this country. America doesn't allow men to earn money. It's called Liberty, and it comes from ____________ (fill in the blank - the Constitution calls it God, some say Providence, you get the point). It's the Constitution that guarantees men and women those things - Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

It has nothing to do with treating America any one way or another.

Back to top

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand

IP Logged

stevegeebe

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 1687
Mandeville, LA
Gender: male

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #32 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 10:06pm

I'm tired of working my butt off for other people who decide not to work and contribute.

Why, when there is so much to do in this Country, do we just give people money to sit on their butts and do absolutely nothing?

Who are the real villains here?

Am I morally corrupt for thinking this way? Am I sinister in thinking that this expansion of entitlements is a guise for liberals to prepay for the upcoming election votes? Tell me, is someone who is the recipient of Government handouts,(rent subsidies, food stamps, free medical care...), likely to keep voting for a Party that is in favor of a continuation of these policies? Am I cynical?

I would be less discouraged if I could see my tax contributions manifested in a programs that resulted in work that fixed things that needed fixing and teach the participants a trade and ultimately instilled pride thereby becoming contributing participants in the system. With that, maybe we all would have contribute less because less would be in the trough.

Steve G

Back to top

IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

BarbaraD

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Hugs to ya

Posts: 8333
Douglasville, TX
Gender: female

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #33 - Aug 12^th, 2009 at 7:07am

stevegeebe wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 10:06pm:

I'm tired of working my butt off for other people who decide not to work and contribute.

Why, when there is so much to do in this Country, do we just give people money to sit on their butts and do absolutely nothing?

Who are the real villains here?

Am I morally corrupt for thinking this way? Am I sinister in thinking that this expansion of entitlements is a guise for liberals to prepay for the upcoming election votes? Tell me, is someone who is the recipient of Government handouts,(rent subsidies, food stamps, free medical care...), likely to keep voting for a Party that is in favor of a continuation of these policies? Am I cynical?

I would be less discouraged if I could see my tax contributions manifested in a programs that resulted in work that fixed things that needed fixing and teach the participants a trade and ultimately instilled pride thereby becoming contributing participants in the system. With that, maybe we all would have contribute less because less would be in the trough.

Steve G

I agree with you TOTALLY Steve. Everyone can do SOMETHING. (With the exceptions of the totally elderly and totally handicapped - those may need a little help but...).

If the government wants to REALLY help out people ... set up some DAY CARE CENTERS and HIRE some people to run them. Give those mothers on welfare a place to put their kids so they can go to work (they can always hire some Grandparents to man the daycare centers - who better - might teach the kids something!).

Prisons could become self-supporting (the were at one time) - they could PRODUCE what they eat - do their own laundry, etc -- save the taxpayers that much. It's ridiculous to spend $30-40,000 a year to HOUSE a prisoner.

LIke I said, instead of food stamps we could go back to "commodities" - the government can buy those from our farmers. It worked good for a number of years and feed our elderly and poor people well.

If they're not going to eliminate the IRS, then overhaul the IRS code and get it into working order. Start from page ONE and rewrite it - take out the loopholes and make it READABLE and fair to all.

Congress needs to quit spending time on BS and start working for the American people... All this BS stuff needs to be left to the state legislatures - they can handle all that stuff (or the Congressman's secretary can do it with a form letter - it doesn't need the whole damn HOuse to vote on it and waste an hour!).

In other words -- Congress needs a REALITY CHECK!!!

I'm still mad about reading what they ACTUALLY do all day while they're in session!

Hugs BD Kiss

Back to top

What don't kill ya, Makes ya stronger!

IP Logged

monty

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #34 - Aug 12^th, 2009 at 8:19am

Brew wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 8:59pm:

America doesn't allow men to earn money.

The wealthy are earning more money than ever before - they have increased their earnings and their share of the pie. People on the bottom 50% haven't done so well in the past few decades, and that is more from stagnant wages than anything else.

Yesterday we were told that for the early part of this year, worker productivity rose dramatically, while worker compensation dropped significantly. The official rhetoric is that a productive worker is worth more and gets paid more, but that niceism is wrong more often than not.

Quote:

Tuesday's Labor Department report says productivity grew at a 6.4 percent annual rate during the second quarter, as managers squeezed more work out of their remaining employees.

The data also show labor costs dropping during the period.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

The good news is that we may be leaving the recession. The bad news is that it may be a jobless recovery, and (once again) worker salaries will stay flat while investors rake it in.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 12^th, 2009 at 8:45pm by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

IP Logged

JeffB CH.com Alumnus Offline Wide open till you see God, then brake Posts: 2888 Raleigh, N.C. USA Gender:	Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's Reply #35 - Aug 13^th, 2009 at 5:09pm Hmmmm
Back to top	" It's been my experience that people who have no vices have very little virtues." IP Logged

Charlie

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Happy to be here

Posts: 18971
Jamestown, NY
Gender: male

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #36 - Aug 13^th, 2009 at 6:43pm

Quote:

The wealthy are earning more money than ever before - they have increased their earnings and their share of the pie. People on the bottom 50% haven't done so well in the past few decades, and that is more from stagnant wages than anything else.

It's another reminder of the gilded age in the 19th century. Not that friendly to the lower and middle classes.

Even Nixon knew enough to throw us a bone now and then.

This is about as far as I want to go on this. There is never a meeting of minds on taxes. Good luck kids.

Charlie

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2009 at 6:44pm by Charlie »

There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill

IP Logged

JeffB CH.com Alumnus Offline Wide open till you see God, then brake Posts: 2888 Raleigh, N.C. USA Gender:	Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's Reply #37 - Aug 13^th, 2009 at 7:02pm Did anyone touch on what Americans making 35K in the 70's were paying?
Back to top	" It's been my experience that people who have no vices have very little virtues." IP Logged

stevegeebe

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 1687
Mandeville, LA
Gender: male

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #38 - Aug 13^th, 2009 at 9:58pm

"The wealthy are earning more money than ever before - they have increased their earnings and their share of the pie."

That's one way to obtain money.

Earn
Function: transitive verb
1. To receive as a return for effort and especially for work done or services rendered.
2. To come to be duly worthy of or entitled or suited to.

Peculiar choice of words.

Steve G

Back to top

IP Logged

monty

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida

Re: IRS Income & Tax Stat's
Reply #39 - Aug 14^th, 2009 at 1:04am

stevegeebe wrote on Aug 13^th, 2009 at 9:58pm:

"The wealthy are earning more money than ever before - they have increased their earnings and their share of the pie."

That's one way to obtain money.

Earn
Function: transitive verb
1. To receive as a return for effort and especially for work done or services rendered.
2. To come to be duly worthy of or entitled or suited to.

Peculiar choice of words.

Steve G

Maybe you are right - maybe I should have said 'were paid' or 'took' instead of 'earned'. I'm not sure that the Wall Street bankers who received million dollar bonuses for driving the economy over a cliff are 'duly worthy' of the financial bounty that was transferred to them. I'm not sure that executives should be paying themselves as much money as a thousand other workers when their company does poorly, or does average for their sector.

Quote:

Executives and other highly compensated employees now receive more than one-third of all pay in the U.S., according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of Social Security Administration data -- without counting billions of dollars more in pay that remains off federal radar screens that measure wages and salaries.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Eight years ago, executives got 28% of compensation - now they take over 33%. Did they really do anything to justify that? IMO, most did not. Most large companies are being looted, and it is an inside job, led by the management.... to hell with the workers and stockholders. If investors are willing to sink money into credit default swaps, they sure aren't going to notice an infestation of parasites in the teak rooms. And even if they notice, what can they do?

Quote:

In reality, of course, everyday American citizens are pulling their weight and then some. They actually pay a higher share of their incomes in taxes—total taxes, not just federal income tax—than super rich Americans.

Maverick billionaire investor Warren Buffett has been trying to make this point for some time now. He and his fellow billionaires, Buffett notes, pay taxes at a lower overall rate than their receptionists do.

Two years ago, Buffett bet a million dollars to back up that proposition. He challenged any billionaire in the Forbes 400 to prove him wrong. So far not one has.

Those Forbes 400 billionaires and their cheerleaders live in a fantasy land where average folk who work hard enough can always "succeed" and get rich. In our real world, here early in the 21st century, average people work hard and watch the rich get richer.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 14^th, 2009 at 1:44am by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
	Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!