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lorac CH.com Old Timer Offline Imagine Posts: 433 Tennessee Gender:	taurine/cafiene? Aug 11^th, 2009 at 11:47am The lady at the health food store, mentioned that perhaps it is the caffeine, and not the taurine in energy drinks that helps with the ch...what do you think? She said caffeine opens up the blood vessels. lorac
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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #1 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 12:16pm

Caffiene is a Vasoconstrictor for the purposes of the head - "The caffeine in a cup of coffee can constrict arteries that lie in areas away from the heart and lungs, such as the brain. This is one reason drinking a cup of coffee sometimes relieves a throbbing headache caused by dilated blood vessels in the brain. It’s also why caffeine is added to several over-the-counter analgesics."
you often see caffeine in pain pills such as Excedrin to kill head pain Wink

Don't know what your lady at the health food store thought she was talking about as far as caffeine opening up the blood vessels in the head.

AND Taurine works the same way as Verapamil in a sense - as a calcium channel blocker. It is not understood how exactly Verap works to stop Cluster Headaches, but it has worked as a preventative for many people - with many studies done.

I believe it is the combination of the two - taurine and caffeine that tends to help many! Just my opinion!! Cool

Val

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lorac

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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #2 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 3:32pm

[color=#0000ff][/color]Ya...this year is the first time I tried these energy drinks....I guess i was afraid, or did not think they would really help.
Boy was I wrong! Cheesy

I tried it, and it eliminates my ch for the most part of the day, and I think it helps some way the rest of the night.
Do any of you think that the caffeine causes any rebound headaches? I never ever drink any caffeine, so it really hits me hard. (man can I work fast Grin

) I just don't know what to expect.

Can it be addicting?

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monty CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 1056 The Swamp, Florida	Re: taurine/cafiene? Reply #3 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 4:17pm Coffee alone has only a fraction of the effect compared to an energy drink. I have been putting 2 grams taurine in my morning coffee and 2 grams in my evening coffee for several months (episodic, out of cycle). When I went on vacation, I skipped several doses with no apparent effects - no withdraw.
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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #4 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 4:58pm

Any time you get used to taking in a certain amount of caffeine then stop you chance a rebound headache, but this is a regular (tension-type) headache, I do believe. I do not know about the possibility of rebound cluster headaches, but highly doubt it. I would much rather chance a rebound tension headache though than taking triptans and chancing side effects AND the possibility of having more cluster headaches!!
Then there is always the oxygen solution!! use O2 instead if you don't wanna mess with caffeine at the first sign of a cluster headache/ shadow and you can't go wrong! Wink

Use the energy drink if it isn't an option...

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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #5 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 5:34pm

**Note** for those who chug Caffeine and Taurine Lased drinks to help kill a CH attack, such as Red Bull…

I have a friend who used to drink a lot of Red Bull which has both taurine and caffeine in it; she recently had to stop drinking it on Dr's orders due to the Red Bull causing a severe stomach infection.

If you are getting severe stomach aches, Red Bull could be the cause, so be careful how much Red Bull you chug if that is your Caffeine & Taurine Lased drink of choice to help fight the CH beast.

Personally, I take a Taruine supplement daily and I am a coffee drinker so I add my own caffeine without any other additives other than cream and sugar.

Ingredients in Red Bull
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Red Bull article I found on it at snopes...
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Cheaper place to get your supplements (GNC's kind of pricey) I use...
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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #6 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 7:30pm

After reading about energy drinks aborting low level CH hits I started a trial using Taurine back in April 2006 to see what effect it would have; after about 6 months it was pretty obvious that Taurine alone would not work as a preventative.

After a lot of WEB research into Taurine & talking with my GP it was clear that although Taurine is an essential chemical in the development of the brain in the unborn child & is being used with some success with treating early cases of Alzheimer’s is best effect came from being a promoter of other vitamins/chemical/minerals, what I mean by this is that Taurine makes whatever supplement you are using react quicker & more effectively by breaking down the chemical construction of that supplement & allowing the body to absorb it rapidly, it’s a bit like putting a turbo on an ordinary diesel motor(Energy drinks, put caffeine & Taurine together & you got a turbo)

I believe that from my experience with using the magnesium/calcium & Zink supplements enhanced by the Taurine is the reason I have been able to get this so far 384 day low cycle & as a chronic for the last 5 years that’s not bad going.

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Barry

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lorac CH.com Old Timer Offline Imagine Posts: 433 Tennessee Gender:	Re: taurine/cafiene? Reply #7 - Aug 11^th, 2009 at 9:41pm [color=#333333][/color]Wow...Great replies all. I learn more here every day. Dr apptmnt tomorrow...wish me luck. I am going in armed, and out of ink Thanks a bunch...This is the best site! lorac
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monty

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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #8 - Aug 12^th, 2009 at 11:23am

JustNotRight wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 5:34pm:

I have a friend who used to drink a lot of Red Bull which has both taurine and caffeine in it; she recently had to stop drinking it on Dr's orders due to the Red Bull causing a severe stomach infection.

If you are getting severe stomach aches, Red Bull could be the cause, so be careful how much Red Bull you chug if that is your Caffeine & Taurine Lased drink of choice to help fight the CH beast.

I'm guessing that is from the acidity (carbonation), but there could be something else in it that also bothers the stomach. It could also be that a person got an infection from bad food or whatever source, and they are being told to avoid acid drinks (which makes sense, even if the acidity is not the cause).

Taurine itself seems to protect against some types of gastric insults:

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« Last Edit: Aug 12^th, 2009 at 11:24am by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #9 - Aug 12^th, 2009 at 8:59pm

monty wrote on Aug 12^th, 2009 at 11:23am:

JustNotRight wrote on Aug 11^th, 2009 at 5:34pm:

I have a friend who used to drink a lot of Red Bull which has both taurine and caffeine in it; she recently had to stop drinking it on Dr's orders due to the Red Bull causing a severe stomach infection.

If you are getting severe stomach aches, Red Bull could be the cause, so be careful how much Red Bull you chug if that is your Caffeine & Taurine Lased drink of choice to help fight the CH beast.

I'm guessing that is from the acidity (carbonation), but there could be something else in it that also bothers the stomach. It could also be that a person got an infection from bad food or whatever source, and they are being told to avoid acid drinks (which makes sense, even if the acidity is not the cause).

Taurine itself seems to protect against some types of gastric insults:

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No, as I stated in my post, it was, as the Dr. determined the Red Bull itself was causing her stomach infection. She went through many tests to find the cause of the infection because it kept coming back, so bit by bit they went over her diet, food and drinks. There is something in red bull she nor I can't remember the name of it (her dr used it) that was causing her stomach infection.

Just wanted to clear that up Wink

I will see if I can get in touch with her to find out the name of the substance. Wish me luck she is one busy bee LOL

Each person is different, what ever is in Red Bull that caused her stomach infection may not cause it for another. I just want people to be aware in case they have the same problem crop up.

PFDAN to ALL!

UpDate
Wow got lucky and she was home... it was the combination of ingredients in red bull and all the acids in it that gave her the severe stomach infection and what may be a permanent case of gastritis which she will need to stay on medication for along time if not permanently. The main ingredient the Doctor picked on was Glucuronolactone apparently for some people this is a nasty substance. Keep in mind she used to drink at least 1 Red Bull per day, if not 2.

For more info on your chosen energy drinks or Taurine and Caffeine laced drinks see...
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« Last Edit: Aug 12^th, 2009 at 9:31pm by JustNotRight »

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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #10 - Aug 13^th, 2009 at 12:41pm

I use the carbonated drinks on occasion when getting hit and O2 is not an option. If I use them to frequently they will tear my stomach up terribly. Better than a CH attack, but still very uncomfortable. I recently started using the 5hr Energy drinks instead and have found that they are much easier on the stomach. (I also don't clear the room when I belch Shocked

)

Barry hit the nail on the head. Taurene seems to activate the caffeine somehow that I don't undestand. It is much more effective in combination than either one seperately in my experience.

Jerry

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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #11 - Aug 13^th, 2009 at 10:03pm

One interesting thing I came across when researching Taurine was that when it comes into contact with the bile acids it instantly turns to H₂O₂ Hydrogen peroxide.

Could this be another factor in why energy drinks help with low level hits?

Caffeine a known vasco restrictor & O₂ an extra oxygen molecule with oxygen also being a vasco restrictor .

Oxygen on its own has the symbol O, when 2 oxygen molecule combine the symble is sited as O₂

I don’t profess to understand the chemistry of this, perhaps some one with the knowledge can.

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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #12 - Aug 18^th, 2009 at 9:43am

Barry_T_Coles wrote on Aug 13^th, 2009 at 10:03pm:

One interesting thing I came across when researching Taurine was that when it comes into contact with the bile acids it instantly turns to H₂O₂ Hydrogen peroxide.

Could this be another factor in why energy drinks help with low level hits?

Caffeine a known vasco restrictor & O₂ an extra oxygen molecule with oxygen also being a vasco restrictor .

Oxygen on its own has the symbol O, when 2 oxygen molecule combine the symble is sited as O₂

Barry,
This is a very interesting observation. Hydrogen peroxide is pretty unstable, and has a tendency to break down into plain ol' water, giving off oxygen in the process. I don't imagine that it's a very significant quantity compared with huffing pure O2 from a tank, but then again, maybe the effects are different when the oxygen is ingested by that route (?).

Wonder if anyone's tried just taking a slug of peroxide as an abortive?

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Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: taurine/cafiene? Reply #13 - Aug 18^th, 2009 at 11:31am Infections are caused by bacteria or viruses. Perhaps the energy drink created an environment that allowed the multiplication of certain germs, but to say Red Bull caused a stomach infection would imply that the Red Bull itself contained some harmful bacteria or virus.
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monty

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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #14 - Aug 18^th, 2009 at 1:36pm

If taurine does give off hydrogen peroxide, the interesting thing is not the amount of oxygen - it is the fact that peroxide is very corrosive.

But I don't see how taurine mixed with bile acids would instantly turn to hydrogen peroxide - do you have a reference on that, Barry? Taurine protects against lipid peroxidation. Taurine can convert bile acids to bile salts, but that is rather different.

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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #15 - Aug 18^th, 2009 at 8:02pm

monty wrote on Aug 18^th, 2009 at 1:36pm:

If taurine does give off hydrogen peroxide, the interesting thing is not the amount of oxygen - it is the fact that peroxide is very corrosive.

But I don't see how taurine mixed with bile acids would instantly turn to hydrogen peroxide - do you have a reference on that, Barry? Taurine protects against lipid peroxidation. Taurine can convert bile acids to bile salts, but that is rather different.

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I’ll see if I can dig that article up, it’s been a long time since I read it.

Here’s some links for reference with this one being interesting in its reference to the thalamus.
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Cheers
Barry

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monty CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 1056 The Swamp, Florida	Re: taurine/cafiene? Reply #16 - Aug 19^th, 2009 at 7:42pm Thanks, Barry - I knew that taurine turns down the sympathetic ('flight or fight') part of the nervous system, but hadn't seen the link to the GABA receptors ... makes sense. I nominate taurine to be the modern day soma - a gram truly is better than a damn!!
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Re: taurine/cafiene?
Reply #17 - Aug 20^th, 2009 at 9:21pm

Brew wrote on Aug 18^th, 2009 at 11:31am:

Infections are caused by bacteria or viruses. Perhaps the energy drink created an environment that allowed the multiplication of certain germs, but to say Red Bull caused a stomach infection would imply that the Red Bull itself contained some harmful bacteria or virus.

You'd have to as her doc. about that one. Grin

I was just relaying information. There is an ingredient in Red Bull that some people have issues with as you probably saw by the link I added.

I just don't see the need to add the other ingredients in Red Bull to my diet, that I don't want or need. So I go as natural as possible. Supplements and add my own caffeine.

Personally I think each person should decide for themselves what works best.

Hey if Red Bull kills the beast by all means go for that can pronto!!! Smiley

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