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3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ... (Read 5105 times)
monty
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3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Sep 14th, 2009 at 8:19pm  
There should be a public option.  According to a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, a survey of doctors found 10% who were in favor of a single payer system, and 63% percent favored having a public option along side traditional insurance.

Which puts them in agreement with the general population.

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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #1 - Sep 14th, 2009 at 8:43pm  
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Quote:
AMA Reaction to President Obama's Address on Health System Reform
Physicians agree that medical liability reform is needed

For immediate release
Sept. 9, 2009

Statement attributable to:
J. James Rohack, MD
President, American Medical Association

“It is clear that the status quo is unacceptable. The AMA will continue to work for reform that makes the system work better for patients and physicians. We must seize this opportunity this year to achieve meaningful health reform for America’s patients and physicians.

“The President outlined three essential goals that are vital to reform efforts in this country, including: ensuring the current system remains secure and stable for those who already have insurance coverage and are happy with it; making insurance coverage affordable and accessible to those who need it; and reducing unnecessary costs and waste in the current system.

“The AMA believes these core goals are ones that the majority of the American people can and do support, and we urge Congress to find common ground in achieving them.

“President Obama recognized what physicians have long known – that medical liability reform is needed to bring down the cost of health care, and he is directing the Department of Health and Human Services to take action now. Recognizing the critical need for medical liability reform is an important step toward reducing unnecessary costs. Everyday physicians across the country are forced to consider the broken medical liability system when making decisions, resulting in defensive medicine that adds to unnecessary health costs. We cannot ignore this problem if health-system reform is going to address the growing cost of care.

“Just yesterday, the AMA sent a letter to President Obama and Congress urging them to reach agreement on health reform that includes seven critical elements.  Health coverage for all Americans, insurance market reforms that expand choice and eliminate denials for pre-existing conditions, assurance that medical decisions will remain between the patient and physician, medical liability reforms to reduce the cost of defensive medicine, and repeal of the broken Medicare physicians payment formula that threatens seniors’ access to care are among them.

“We have a historic opportunity to implement needed reforms to address shortcomings in the current system, while keeping in tact all that is working well. We will stay constructively engaged in the legislative process to ensure the final bill improves the health system for patients and the dedicated physicians who care for them.”

# # #

Contact:

Leah Dudowicz
AMA Media Relations
(312) 464-4813


This is direct from the AMA.  Notice it says nothing about a public option being necessary.
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monty
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #2 - Sep 14th, 2009 at 9:16pm  
Yes, the AMA has made some statements in favor of a public option, although they have not been very vocal.  But that is quite different from their previous attempts to block any reform, and

The AMA no longer represents most doctors - in fact, less than 28% of doctors are members.

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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #3 - Sep 14th, 2009 at 9:42pm  
Doesn't matter!  Having a public option is still not necessary to reform health care!

btw, how's MA doing with their near universal health care?
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #4 - Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:58pm  
Why doesn't our non medical Government take this one step at a time???? Make denial for pre-existing conditions illegal first??

Is Medicare a good example of a Government run insurance?? (public option) It is definately not up to the Doctor what is covered.

Why aren't the real reasons for Medical costs being addressed FIRST? Do we really expect our Government to know best?? What Medical training do they have.

We seem to be ignoring the Drug companies (maybe in someones pocket), and the out of control increases in Hospital services. Why???

These are some big questions, should we ignore them because our Gov is? If you voted for them, good for you, but don't expect anyone else to believe Government is somehow transformed into perfection.

I didn't trust them before and I never will.

Don
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monty
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #5 - Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:34pm  
Skyhawk5 wrote on Sep 14th, 2009 at 10:58pm:
Is Medicare a good example of a Government run insurance?? (public option) It is definately not up to the Doctor what is covered.


Yes - it is a good example of a good program. People on Medicare as a group are more satisfied with their coverage than people on private insurance.

Is private insurance a good example of letting doctors decide what is covered? No. There are always going to be guidelines that say that things that are widely known to help are covered, while treatments with less evidence are considered experimental and are not covered. I have had to pay out of pocket before on private insurance because my doctor did what he thought was best, he assumed that it would be covered, but it was denied by the private insurance company.

Melissa wrote on Sep 14th, 2009 at 9:42pm:
btw, how's MA doing with their near universal health care?


By that logic, we should not want all people with cluster headaches to get properly diagnosed and then receive the best treatment - the sudden increase in people going to headache specialists would create longer waits for us!!  Some neurologists would stop taking new patients! So start spreading disinformation about clusters!!  Let's tell people It's really a very rare disease, and if you haven't been diagnosed already, you probably don't have it - what you have is 'just a headache - try to relax, or use boji stones.'  Keep this site an exclusive club!!
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:43pm by monty »  
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #6 - Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:50pm  
What do 3 out of 4 patients say? The ones who are responsible for the bills? The ones who will potentially be denied coverage?

This ain't about the doctors.
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #7 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 12:41am  
Why I mentioned Medicare is the fact that my Father is on it. Fair service for the most part

Two weeks ago we recieved a letter form the Pharmacy, initiated by Medicare, saying my Father is using too many blood test strips. Medicare will only cover 1 strip per day.

His Doctor Rx'd 3 times per day because my Father has a history of having dangerous levels, not often but has been to the ER several times in a serious condition. Deadly.

I would like to know who made the decision that trying to catch the next runaway and potentialy deadly situation should only be allowed once per day??? I hope it wasn't a Doctor.

$200 per month would make up the difference if a person doesn't have to trade food for it.

A small point but true.

Don

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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #8 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 7:59am  
Brew wrote on Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:50pm:
What do 3 out of 4 patients say? The ones who are responsible for the bills? The ones who will potentially be denied coverage?

This ain't about the doctors.


A majority of Americans want a public option. And businesses (who typically pay as much or more than employees for insurance) are not satisfied with the current system, either.

You are right - this isn't about what doctors want. And it isn't about what the public wants. It is about what the special interests want.

Quote:
Sep. 13, 2009

A new poll finds majority (55 percent) support for a public insurance option ...
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Quote:
Moreover, 62% of Californians said they support a government-run public insurance plan option, while 33% said they oppose it.
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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:08am by monty »  
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #9 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:04am  
Why doesn't our Federal Government butt out and stick to the powers granted it by our Constitution.

Medical reform is in the domain of the individual States!
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #10 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:08am  
Nice try Monty… but that dog won’t hunt.  Remember the NEJM once advocated the use of lobotomies to treat mental illness...

Why is it that the social progressive liberals try to mislead people with the term “Public Option” when it is actually Government Run Health Care?    At least you’re consistent in parroting the liberal progressive tweets coming from the White House, MoveOn, and the dallykooz…

Perhaps you can explain to the good people of Clusterville why all the other Government run social spending programs are in very deep kimchi and about to go broke at taxpayer expense…  You know…  programs like, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the VA, AMTRAK, the War on Poverty, and the list goes on... 

Can you tell us how you intend to pay for Obamacare or that it won't suffer the same fate as the other social spending programs?

Perhaps you can also respond to Mel's question why the highly touted government run health care system in Massachusetts is failing so badly…

I happen to like the freedoms that I, and many hundreds of thousands of Americans have fought to protect and defend…  and that many more have died to protect and defend.  Accordingly, I will stand in firm opposition to any bogus social progressive legislation that attempts to take away these freedoms or that levies huge fines on my freedom of choice.

While we’re on the topic of freedom of choice, can you explain why the social progressive idiots in Congress and their lemming followers abuse freedom of choice so freely as long as it serves their social progressive agenda… 

Perhaps you can explain why it’s acceptable to use the term freedom of choice as the rationale for aborting over 1 million babies a year yet support legislation that levies fines on my freedom of choice to pick or not accept a health care plan?

In as much as the idiots in Congress didn’t even write the five versions of the Obamacare legislation, and most contain verbiage that gives money to ACORN and SEIU…  What’s that all about? 

I think the best thing to do with each of these thousand plus pages of Marxist manifestos disguised as potential public health care law, is cut them up for toilet paper and place them in the Senate and House washrooms so the idiots in Congress can see just how slick they really are…

Finally…  What Obama wants and what Congress passes are almost always two different things…  And, as there are a lot of liberals in Congress that came back from the August recess with a severe case of anal leakage after getting an ear full from their constituents…  It’s going to be difficult at best to muster a majority vote… 

Don, Mel, Brew...  You're doing great...  Keep it up...  Liberal progressives have a hard time spinning away the truth...  It's kind of like sunlight to a vampire...

Take care…  and BOHICA!

V/R, Batch
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #11 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:08am  
Quote:
Why doesn't our Federal Government butt out and stick to the powers granted it by our Constitution.

...and if there's any question as to what those powers might be, people should try reading the 10th Amendment to our Constitution.
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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:09am by Brew »  
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #12 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:16am  
Bob P wrote on Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:04am:
Why doesn't our Federal Government butt out and stick to the powers granted it by our Constitution.

Medical reform is in the domain of the individual States!


That's an interesting theory, but there is absolutely no evidence it is true. Where does it say that?

The first sentence of the US Constitution authorizes the federal government to act for the general welfare of the country, and Article 1, Section 8 both authorize Congress to collect taxes and provide for the general welfare.
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #13 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:18am  
Quote:
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #14 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:22am  
Quote:
Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #15 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:56am  
monty wrote on Sep 14th, 2009 at 11:34pm:
By that logic, we should not want all people with cluster headaches to get properly diagnosed and then receive the best treatment - the sudden increase in people going to headache specialists would create longer waits for us!!  Some neurologists would stop taking new patients! So start spreading disinformation about clusters!!  Let's tell people It's really a very rare disease, and if you haven't been diagnosed already, you probably don't have it - what you have is 'just a headache - try to relax, or use boji stones.'  Keep this site an exclusive club!!



Are you serious???  Huh
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #16 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 9:36am  
Ok, here is the graph from this link:
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Notice the 63% is for BOTH private and public option?  Now, do you know what's going to happen if a public option is put into place?  Employers are going to find it is not worth to keep their health insurance for their employees, and they will drop it.  It would be less expensive for them to pay the 8%(from what I gather) fine for not providing a private option for their employees, than it would to keep it.  Then what happens?  Those employees will be forced into a public option because if they don't have coverage, they'll be fined.

What is so great about this??
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #17 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 9:48am  
Quote:
The first sentence of the US Constitution authorizes the federal government to act for the general welfare of the country, and Article 1, Section 8 both authorize Congress to collect taxes and provide for the general welfare.


From one of the guys who wrote it...
Quote:
"Our tenet ever was... that Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated, and that, as it was never meant that they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money." --Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, 1817. ME 15:133

Quote:
But as early as 1794, Madison had begun to rail against the government's unconstitutional urge to redistribute the wealth of its citizens: "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. ... If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions."
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #18 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 10:02am  
monty wrote on Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:16am:
Bob P wrote on Sep 15th, 2009 at 8:04am:
Why doesn't our Federal Government butt out and stick to the powers granted it by our Constitution.

Medical reform is in the domain of the individual States!


That's an interesting theory, but there is absolutely no evidence it is true. Where does it say that?

The first sentence of the US Constitution authorizes the federal government to act for the general welfare of the country, and Article 1, Section 8 both authorize Congress to collect taxes and provide for the general welfare. 


There are 3 entities listed in the constitution. The country, state, and the people. That statement pertains to the government's role for general welfare of the United States, not for the people.

Under that assertion, the government would be responsible for providing shelter, food, and water to all as well. However, homelessness is found, people are starving, and many use a well for water.
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #19 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 10:25am  
Melissa wrote on Sep 15th, 2009 at 9:36am:
Ok, here is the graph from this link:
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npr.org/news/graphics/2009/09/gr-doctorsurvey-300.gif

Notice the 63% is for BOTH private and public option?  Now, do you know what's going to happen if a public option is put into place?  Employers are going to find it is not worth to keep their health insurance for their employees, and they will drop it.  It would be less expensive for them to pay the 8%(from what I gather) fine for not providing a private option for their employees, than it would to keep it.  Then what happens?  Those employees will be forced into a public option because if they don't have coverage, they'll be fined.

What is so great about this??

We wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of a good story.

Which is also the motto of journalism schools around the nation.
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #20 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 10:29am  
Bob P wrote on Sep 15th, 2009 at 9:48am:
Quote:
The first sentence of the US Constitution authorizes the federal government to act for the general welfare of the country, and Article 1, Section 8 both authorize Congress to collect taxes and provide for the general welfare.


From one of the guys who wrote it...
Quote:
"Our tenet ever was... that Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated, and that, as it was never meant that they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money." --Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, 1817. ME 15:133

Quote:
But as early as 1794, Madison had begun to rail against the government's unconstitutional urge to redistribute the wealth of its citizens: "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. ... If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions."

I'm pretty sure the preamble to the Constitution wasn't written as a wild card, meant to include anything and everything that wasn't specified in the remainder of the document. It's more like an executive summary.

Some choose not to read it that way, I guess.
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #21 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 11:04am  
Here we go again. Unlike the 1965 bloodbath in Congress where the AMA and just about everybody in medicine stormed the barricades over Medicare, doctors and a wide majority in the profession are for the public option. It makes perfect sense:

First: It's very likely to be good to MDs. More patients and their not having to deal with insurance companies every time they need a test or even basic things. These companies have panels (death panels in effect) that are charged with nothing but restricting or ending what they will allow. They call it "down coding" and it changes all the time.  For now, half of doctors' office time is spent arguing with them. My favorite is their effort some years ago to cover all births only for one day or as an out patient procedure, no matter the complications. They are a sweet bunch.

Secondly: It's the only way to stop our wonderful system from killing thousands of sick people. Children included.

Third: Drug companies will do just fine with more business.

Fourth: We are an embarrasment by not having it. British Prime Minister, Clement Atlee's government, in 1948, suceeded in creating a national health service during just about the worst economic period in British history. Surely we innovative and humanitarian Americans can do it too.

Fifth: I'm not about to go through articles by your favorite Demi Goons screaming about Socialism and all the inane blogs by entertainers from FOX or screech radio. I'm not a masochist. I don't make my decisions on Internet rantings. I do just fine elsewhere.

Americans do not live longer than other western countries that have it and do just fine. Ours is not the best medical system in the world.

Knock it off.

Charlie
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #22 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 11:21am  
Who are you telling to "knock it off" Charlie?
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #23 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 11:22am  
Bob, I may be led to believe you are close to the heart of the matter, but do not think Jefferson had a hand in the writing of the Constritution.  He was ambassador to France at the time, however, upon reading it, immediately noticed problems and wrote to Madison about amendments. 

Bob P wrote on Sep 15th, 2009 at 9:48am:
From one of the guys who wrote it...


The Jefferson quote MAY pertain to his long standing objections to Adams' Alien and Sedition Acts (3, I think) for the Quasi War.  They wrote to each other until their deaths about it. 

A good study is Andrew Jackson's White House days, where he dealt with nullification of federal law from his own V.P. Calhoun from S.C., which seems could be a double bladed sword. 

Like Jackson, Monty may be saying, posting a majority opinion, that a democracy may be speaking. 

AZ seems to be considering nullification:

When a state ‘nullifies’ a federal law, it is proclaiming that the law in question is void and inoperative, or ‘non-effective’, within the boundaries of that state; or, in other words, not a law as far as the state is concerned.

Quote:
...the Arizona State Senate voted 18-11 to concur with the House and approve the Health Care Freedom Act (HCR2014).  This will put a proposal on the 2010 ballot which would constitutionally override any law, rule or regulation that requires individuals or employers to participate in any particular health care system.


Being nothing is written in stone yet, this is speculation.
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Charlie
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Jamestown, NY
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Re: 3 out of 4 Doctors Agree ...
Reply #24 - Sep 15th, 2009 at 11:26am  
Quote:
Who are you telling to "knock it off" Charlie?


Not you or us, the people who are out to destroy Obama. Admit it or not, that's exactly what it has become. Money is secondary and the signs say so. They just can't put up with who he is and that he's smarter than they are.

Charlie
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There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill
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