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Skyhawk5 CH.com Alumnus Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1320 Ypsilanti, Mi. USA Gender:	Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome Sep 21^st, 2009 at 11:21pm There are over 6600 people on this site, a few of them are top notch researchers of CH. Never heard of that. Sounds like a Chiropractor thing to me. If it were that easy we would all be somewhere else. Until we see some real proof it's just another false hope. Don
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monty

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Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome
Reply #1 - Sep 22^nd, 2009 at 2:27pm

Occipital nerve blocks sometimes help. They are very temporary, but they demonstrate that things that affect the upper neck might affect cluster headaches.

Quote:

Occipital neuralgia, also known as C2 neuralgia, Arnold's neuralgia, is a medical condition characterized by chronic pain in the upper neck, back of the head and behind the eyes. These areas correspond to the locations of the lesser and greater occipital nerves.

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« Last Edit: Sep 22^nd, 2009 at 2:27pm by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Potter CH.com Alumnus Offline Team MOOSE DROOL Stinky Stuff on a Hook Prostaff Posts: 3600 Blgs.Mt. Gender:	Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome Reply #2 - Sep 22^nd, 2009 at 6:07pm atlas neurovascular syndrome doesn't exist. It's booooolshit Potter
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monty

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Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome
Reply #3 - Sep 23^rd, 2009 at 11:10am

Potter wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2009 at 6:07pm:

atlas neurovascular syndrome doesn't exist. It's booooolshit

Potter

So you are saying that vertebrae can't get pushed out of position, and the area around it can't have blood flow and nerve transmission disrupted?

Quote:

March 16, 2007 -- A special chiropractic adjustment can significantly lower high blood pressure, a placebo-controlled study suggests.

"This procedure has the effect of not one, but two blood-pressure medications given in combination," study leader George Bakris, MD, tells WebMD. "And it seems to be adverse-event free. We saw no side effects and no problems," adds Bakris, director of the University of Chicago hypertension center.

Eight weeks after undergoing the procedure, 25 patients with early-stage high blood pressure had significantly lower blood pressure than 25 similar patients who underwent a sham chiropractic adjustment. Because patients can't feel the technique, they were unable to tell which group they were in.

X-rays showed that the procedure realigned the Atlas vertebra -- the doughnut-like bone at the very top of the spine -- with the spine in the treated patients, but not in the sham-treated patients.

Compared to the sham-treated patients, those who got the real procedure saw an average 14 mm Hg greater drop in systolic blood pressure (the top number in a blood pressure count), and an average 8 mm Hg greater drop in diastolic blood pressure (the bottom blood pressure number).

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« Last Edit: Sep 23^rd, 2009 at 11:37am by monty »

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.

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Potter CH.com Alumnus Offline Team MOOSE DROOL Stinky Stuff on a Hook Prostaff Posts: 3600 Blgs.Mt. Gender:	Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome Reply #4 - Sep 24^th, 2009 at 11:01am Mighty fine cut and paste but it don't say shit bout ch. Potter
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monty

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Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome
Reply #5 - Sep 24^th, 2009 at 11:55am

No, but it does say something about the idea that the atlas neurovascular syndrome is 'booooolshit'.

While there is no good evidence that CH is consistently helped by chiropractic, we do know that a shot of lidocaine or cortisone near the atlas can sometimes give relief to clusterheads... nerves in that area can feed into clusters. And we know that problems with the alignment of that vertebra causes all kinds of other problems.

Bottom line IMO - like allergies, a misaligned atlas is worth treating, even if it doesn't result in a 100% improvement in cluster headaches.

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Potter

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Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome
Reply #6 - Sep 24^th, 2009 at 4:55pm

monty wrote on Sep 24^th, 2009 at 11:55am:

No, but it does say something about the idea that the atlas neurovascular syndrome is 'booooolshit'.

While there is no good evidence that CH is consistently helped by chiropractic, we do know that a shot of lidocaine or cortisone near the atlas can sometimes give relief to clusterheads... nerves in that area can feed into clusters. And we know that problems with the alignment of that vertebra causes all kinds of other problems.

Bottom line IMO - like allergies, a misaligned atlas is worth treating, even if it doesn't result in a 100% improvement in cluster headaches.

Guess that rules out the hypothalamus then, doesn't it?

Potter

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monty

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Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome
Reply #7 - Sep 25^th, 2009 at 3:23pm

No, it doesn't rule out the hypothalamus as the initiator. I think hypothalamus problems are required for clusters, but may not be enough ... other things are going on.

Nerve blocks are not injections into the hypothalamus, but they can sometimes have a good effect. A sinus infection or allergies is not centered in the hypothalamus, but it can make a cycle much worse.

The hypothalamus doesn't trigger all the time - and no one knows why. I get lots of phantom clusters where the hypothalamus is going beserk, but there is no pain, and no one has really explained that. The phantom clusters are not pleasant, but they are preferable to excruciating pain.

Nerves outside of the brain are a real component - the trigeminal sounds the pain, and the threshold for switching into pain mode is affected by other nerves on the face and neck.

Cluster headaches cannot be reduced to the hypothalamus, even if a disturbance there is an essential part of it.

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« Last Edit: Sep 25^th, 2009 at 3:25pm by monty »

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Potter

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Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome
Reply #8 - Sep 25^th, 2009 at 3:49pm

monty wrote on Sep 25^th, 2009 at 3:23pm:

No, it doesn't rule out the hypothalamus as the initiator. I think hypothalamus problems are required for clusters, but may not be enough ... other things are going on.

Nerve blocks are not injections into the hypothalamus, but they can sometimes have a good effect. A sinus infection or allergies is not centered in the hypothalamus, but it can make a cycle much worse.

The hypothalamus doesn't trigger all the time - and no one knows why. I get lots of phantom clusters where the hypothalamus is going beserk, but there is no pain, and no one has really explained that. The phantom clusters are not pleasant, but they are preferable to excruciating pain.

Nerves outside of the brain are a real component - the trigeminal sounds the pain, and the threshold for switching into pain mode is affected by other nerves on the face and neck.

Cluster headaches cannot be reduced to the hypothalamus, even if a disturbance there is an essential part of it.

Well there ya go, straight from the horses........mouth.

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Linda_Howell CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Do not feed the Moderators Posts: 11927 Santa Maria, Ca. Gender:	Re: atlas neurovascular syndrome Reply #9 - Sep 25^th, 2009 at 7:42pm I wish you WOULD go to the horses mouth as a matter of fact. Doug Wright is a chiropractor. He was one of the speakers at the Vancouver convention. He is also one who helped put on the clusterbusters conference. Why not ask him what he thinks???
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