Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Clusterheadaches.com
 
Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterEvent CalendarBirthday List  
 





Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Hyperbolic chambers (Read 2630 times)
NancyB
CH.com Veteran
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 169
Hyperbolic chambers
Jan 27th, 2010 at 5:17pm
 
A friend was just telling me about a hyperbolic chamber, which I guess is just a chamber with a lot of oxygen in it and is suppose to accelerate healing. Has anyone heard of this or tried it?
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Brew
CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 14163
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #1 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 5:36pm
 
Do you mean hyperbaric?

If so, they use them to treat divers that develop the bends. It's high concentrations of O2 at higher than atmospheric pressure.
Back to top
  

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
IP Logged
 
Brew
CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 14163
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #2 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 5:41pm
 
Either that or it's a chamber you're locked into and subject to endless obvious and intentional exaggerations.
Back to top
  

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
IP Logged
 
NancyB
CH.com Veteran
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 169
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #3 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 5:44pm
 
Yeah, that's what I meant- I think. Apparently they use it at some chiropractors offices. I know some athletes use it to help heal up faster so just wondering.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
seasonalboomer
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline


CH messes with my isness


Posts: 2517
Charlotte, NC
Gender: male
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #4 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 7:46pm
 
I believe a hyperbolic chamber is the joint-session of congress for the State of the Union Address tonight.  Cheesy
Back to top
  

Scott
 
IP Logged
 
Brew
CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 14163
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #5 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 8:36pm
 
seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 27th, 2010 at 7:46pm:
I believe a hyperbolic chamber is the joint-session of congress for the State of the Union Address tonight.  Cheesy

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
  

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
IP Logged
 
Kilowatt3
CH.com Old Timer
****
Offline


1952 Jag


Posts: 300
Lake Charles, Louisiana - USA
Gender: male
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #6 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 10:43pm
 
seasonalboomer wrote on Jan 27th, 2010 at 7:46pm:
I believe a hyperbolic chamber is the joint-session of congress for the State of the Union Address tonight.  Cheesy

Nah!  The high pressure is there, but it's all hot air & smoke, rather than oxygen...
Back to top
  

Regards,
Jim
SW Louisiana

If "that which does not kill me, makes me stronger", then how come I always feel like $hit after every near-death experience?
WWW kilowatt3  
IP Logged
 
Revolvr
CH.com Newbie
*
Offline




Posts: 24
Phoenix AZ
Gender: male
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #7 - Jan 27th, 2010 at 11:07pm
 
Brew wrote on Jan 27th, 2010 at 5:41pm:
Either that or it's a chamber you're locked into and subject to endless obvious and intentional exaggerations.

Not to be hyperbolic or anything but I just LMAO. I needed that about now.  Grin
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Bob P
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline


Shut up Bob!


Posts: 4573
Clio,California
Gender: male
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #8 - Jan 28th, 2010 at 8:07am
 
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Thanks OUCH
Back to top
  

Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron.  "SHUT UP HUB!"
WWW  
IP Logged
 
NancyB
CH.com Veteran
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 169
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #9 - Jan 28th, 2010 at 10:35am
 
Thanks Bob- yet another thing to try- always a good thing.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Brew
CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 14163
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #10 - Jan 28th, 2010 at 10:38am
 
I can't imagine what that treatment would cost....
Back to top
  

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
IP Logged
 
NancyB
CH.com Veteran
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 169
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #11 - Jan 28th, 2010 at 10:42am
 
The friend that told me about it said that it's about same as a regular chiro appointment. In my opinion,as long as it's not millions, it's worth a shot.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
monty
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline




Posts: 1056
The Swamp, Florida
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #12 - Jan 28th, 2010 at 2:23pm
 
NancyB wrote on Jan 28th, 2010 at 10:35am:
Thanks Bob- yet another thing to try- always a good thing.


?

Hyperbaric oxygen can abort individual headaches, but there is no evidence it can stop a cycle. In that respect, it is no more effective than hi-flow oxygen with a non-rebreather mask ... except it is much more expensive (~$100 a session).
Back to top
  

The outer boundary of what we currently believe is feasible is far short of what we actually must do.
 
IP Logged
 
NancyB
CH.com Veteran
***
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 169
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #13 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 7:13pm
 
O.k. that sucks.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Batch
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must


Posts: 3708
Bremerton, WA
Gender: male
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #14 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 8:59pm
 
The efficacy of hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) as an abortive for a cluster headache or to abort a cycle is questionable at best... 

I took an HBOT chamber run as an observer in the late 70s...  As far as I can tell, most HBOT operators are still using the same US Navy Dive Table VI procedures shown below as they did then...
Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
As you can see from the schedule... you don't just jump into an HBOT chamber and then jump out... 

Using the above procedure to abort a cluster headache attack is like chasing flatulence in a wind storm or trying to eat a soup sandwich...  Not much gratification... 

You may as well plan on camping out in the HBOT chamber while waiting for an attack...

If a CH'er were able to catch an attack in progress while camping out in the HBOT chamber, efficacy would really depend on the patient's respiration rate and tidal volume during the oxygen breathing segments of chamber run...

It's much easier to abort attacks with a high flow rate regulator and O2PTIMASK™ kit or a demand valve...

Most insurance companies will not cover the expense of HBOT for cluster headaches.

Take care,

V/R, Batch
Back to top
  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
pete_batcheller  
IP Logged
 
MJ
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline




Posts: 1205
x1||USA|usa|299|85|MN
Gender: male
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #15 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 11:57pm
 
If one thinks they are being helped they might be. The mind may provide relief alone if given permission.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

"Hyperbaric oxygen treatment of active cluster headache:

Sixteen patients, 12 with episodic and four with chronic cluster headache (CH) according to the International Headache Society criteria (1), participated in the study. They were randomly selected to start with one out of two different hyperbaric treatments in a double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study design. Both gases were administered by mask inside a multiplace hyperbaric chamber for 70 min at 250 kPa (2.5 ATA) in two sessions 24 h apart. Active treatment was 100% oxygen (HBO treatment), while placebo treatment was 10% oxygen in nitrogen (hyperbaric normoxic placebo = sham treatment) corresponding to breathing air at sea level. All patients were decompressed on air. The patients documented the number of headache attacks and their degree of severity according to a modified VAS scale (level 0–4, where level 0 = no headache and level 4 = very severe headache). A headache index (HI = sum of (number of attacks times degree of severity)) was calculated for the run-in week prior to and the week after each separate treatment. A treatment was regarded as effective if it reduced the HI by>50%. Blood samples were taken from the external jugular vein before and during hyperbaric treatment (after 30 and 70 min), 1 day and 1 week after each treatment for analyses of calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP), vasoactive intestinal peptide (VIP) and neuropeptide Y (NPY) and in a few patients also endotheline and nitrate. No difference between HBO and sham treatment on the HI or the prophylactic effect was observed in our study. However, 83% of the episodic CH patients and 25% of the chronic ones responded to either of the two treatments with at least 50% reduction of HI or remission for shorter or longer periods. This response rate exceeds an expected high placebo response due to the study procedure. Two episodic CH patients still experienced remission on follow-up 1 year after sham treatment. Five patients reported mild or moderate CH attacks during the sham treatment, and none during the HBO treatment. Changes in neuropeptides, endotheline and nitrate levels did not differ systematically when comparing the two different hyperbaric treatments or with respect to responders and non-responders. We conclude that two HBO sessions were not more effective than two sham treatments in reducing the HI and interrupting the CH period when given in a well-established cluster period or in chronic CH. The hyperbaric condition itself seems effective in reducing the HI, at least in patients with episodic CH, although a powerful placebo response can not be ruled out. "
Back to top
  

MJ
 
IP Logged
 
Batch
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must


Posts: 3708
Bremerton, WA
Gender: male
Re: Hyperbolic chambers
Reply #16 - Jan 30th, 2010 at 12:34pm
 
MJ,

You're quite right, the mind can play a powerful role in healing...  My daughter is a leukemia survivor and has worked with kids suffering from leukemia for over 20 years.  She's also worked with kids suffering from autism for more than 5 years...  She's a firm believer in having a positive attitude and has seen first hand where it resulted in a favorable outcome far more often than not...

I'm familiar with the study you cited and I had the opportunity to speak with a number of neurologists specializing in the treatment of cluster and migraine sufferers about HBOT at the IHC 2009 convention in Philadelphia last September...  The most common comment from neurologists I spoke with who were familiar with this study was the results were largely anecdotal.  Had the response been more significant, there would have been more followup HBOT studies...

To put this in perspective, I think it's significant to note that out of the 420 study abstracts accepted by the IHC for presentation at the conference, only a handful dealt with oxygen therapy in one way or another and none involved hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

BMJ's Clinical Evidence web site made the following comment on the study you cited.

"It is difficult to comment on the efficacy of HBOT, given the limited controlled data available in the literature. However, it is noteworthy that the available data point towards a beneficial effect — which is not surprising considering the beneficial effect of normobaric oxygen. HBOT has been associated with adverse effects, including: damage to the ears, sinuses, and lungs from the effects of pressure; temporary worsening of short-sightedness; claustrophobia; and oxygen poisoning. Although serious adverse effects are rare, HBOT cannot be regarded as an entirely benign intervention. [39] The clinical utility of HBOT is likely to remain limited in the foreseeable future, owing to the lack of general availability."

We've also learned a lot about using oxygen as an abortive for cluster headaches over the last few years.  As I indicated in an earlier post in this thread, respiration rate and tidal volume (depth of breath) play a significant role in the efficacy of oxygen therapy in aborting cluster headaches.  From what I've been able to gather, no specific breathing instructions were given to the participants in the HBOT study other than to breathe normally.

We collected data on over 650 aborts with oxygen therapy during the pilot study that formed the basis for the patent application for the demand valve method of therapy the USPTO published last December.  366 of these aborts used flow rates that support hyperventilation.  The study indicated a dramatic reduction in abort times if flow rates that support hyperventilation were used over breathing normally at a flow rate of 12 to 15 liters/minute...

So... I'll stick with my initial statement that most of us are far better off with a better quality of life if we use home oxygen therapy at flow rates that support hyperventilation.  It's far less expensive than imitrex, it has no side effects, and if used properly, the success rate (efficacy) is greater than 95% and the abort times are just as fast as imitrex.

Take care,

V/R, Batch
Back to top
  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
pete_batcheller  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print

DISCLAIMER: All information contained on this web site is for informational purposes only.  It is in no way intended to be used as a replacement for professional medical treatment.   clusterheadaches.com makes no claims as to the scientific/clinical validity of the information on this site OR to that of the information linked to from this site.  All information taken from the internet should be discussed with a medical professional!