Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Clusterheadaches.com
 
Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegisterEvent CalendarBirthday List  
 





Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Send Topic Print
Cyberknife radiosurgery? (Read 29513 times)
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #75 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 3:00pm
 
Batch wrote on Aug 7th, 2010 at 1:20pm:


My question to Neal is this...  If a potent corticosteriod like methylprednisolone, which usually prevents cluster headaches better than 60% of the time for most of us isn't working and the cyberknife radiosurgery has had less than desired efficacy... how long are your cluster headaches lasting and would an average time of 7 minutes to abort them to a pain free state with oxygen therapy at flow rates that support hyperventilation provide enough incentive to give it a try?

Take care,

V/R, Batch


Batch,

     The clusters last 15-20 minutes thanks to the Imitrex. Left untreated (which I don't do anymore!) the average length of a CH for me is about 2 hours. Shortest ever was about 1 hour; longest was about 8 hours at K10 level. That was early on in my journey with The Beast and before Imitrex was available in the US. If I had had a gun on my bedside table then, I would be long gone from this life.
     But as to the O2, it's never been terribly effective for me, even with a flow rate of 30 LPM and a non-rebreather mask. And the O2 suppliers would keep on billing even after I gave all the stuff back. 2 suppliers, both kept billing me for nothing. I have read about a flow rate of up to 60 LPM with the "O2ptimask" (spelling?) being effective.
     But the docs said it would probably be 2-4 weeks before the CKRS fully works, and could take up to 6. So I am waiting to see if that is the case. If this mess continues after that, though, I may try the super-duper high flow rate O2.
     For the sake of this procedure, and giving it time to work as I was told, I am unwilling to change anything at this point.
     But Batch, thanks for the input and support. And thanks to all the rest of you for your input and support. It is greatly appreciated! I don't know what I would do without you guys n gals! I was a "lurker" here for many years before becoming a member, and surely would be dead without this wonderful place and all its wonderful people.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Potter
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


Team MOOSE DROOL Stinky
Stuff on a Hook Prostaff


Posts: 3600
Blgs.Mt.
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #76 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 3:08pm
 
Batch wrote on Aug 7th, 2010 at 1:20pm:
Prednisone vs Methlyprednisolone...  They're both potent  corticosteroids with methylprednisolone the more potent of the two by 20%.  According to the corticosteroid converter at Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register you can replace a 25mg dose of prednisone with a 20mg dose of methylprednisolone.

My question to Neal is this...  If a potent corticosteriod like methylprednisolone, which usually prevents cluster headaches better than 60% of the time for most of us isn't working and the cyberknife radiosurgery has had less than desired efficacy... how long are your cluster headaches lasting and would an average time of 7 minutes to abort them to a pain free state with oxygen therapy at flow rates that support hyperventilation provide enough incentive to give it a try?

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Yeah.  What Batch said. 

         Potter
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Lizzie2
CH.com Sponsor
***
Offline


"L'Chaim"~Hebrew Toast~"To
Life"


Posts: 4824
Boothwyn, PA
Gender: female
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #77 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 3:21pm
 
Neal,

I'm a bit confused as to your logic on trying the O2.  You're aborting them now with imitrex...  It's no different if you abort them with O2 in terms of determining the success of the cyberknife radiosurgery.  O2 doesn't prevent attacks, so you'd still know if you were having them.  Now, if you weren't aborting them at all and just seeing what happened, then I agree that using O2 would be skewing the results.  But since you're already using something to abort...

Also, glad you haven't had loss of sensation so far.  I'm going to wager a guess you'll have to wait the 2-6 weeks to be sure this isn't going to happen either!!  I hope it doesn't though!!!

PF wishes and thanks for sharing your story with us,
Carrie Smiley
Back to top
  

~~"Don't know much about your life. Don't know much about your world, but Don't wanna be alone tonight on this planet they call Earth."~~
Lizzie2 Lizzie2 Lizzie52004 NeoNurseChic  
IP Logged
 
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #78 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 6:10pm
 
Lizzie2 wrote on Aug 7th, 2010 at 3:21pm:
Neal,

I'm a bit confused as to your logic on trying the O2.  You're aborting them now with imitrex...  It's no different if you abort them with O2 in terms of determining the success of the cyberknife radiosurgery.  O2 doesn't prevent attacks, so you'd still know if you were having them.  Now, if you weren't aborting them at all and just seeing what happened, then I agree that using O2 would be skewing the results.  But since you're already using something to abort...


       That's a very good point. Maybe all the radiation fried my logic center! But seriously though, I don't want to go through all the mess with getting another O2 prescription, getting a regulator with a high enough O2 flow, the DME people's nefarious billing practices, etc. But in the end I may go back to that, if all he rads didn't "cut it"  Cheesy

Quote:
Also, glad you haven't had loss of sensation so far.  I'm going to wager a guess you'll have to wait the 2-6 weeks to be sure this isn't going to happen either!!  I hope it doesn't though!!!


       Me too!

Quote:
PF wishes and thanks for sharing your story with us,
Carrie Smiley


   Thanks for being here.  Smiley
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 7th, 2010 at 6:46pm by Neal »  
 
IP Logged
 
boski
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


CH'S Suck for all that
Suffer / The Pain The
Pain


Posts: 208
NYC
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #79 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 12:47pm
 
Hey Neal:

Yeah, funny nuthin seems to work right away!   Cheesy
Try The O2 it's cheaper than the Imitrex and you can use
that too!

Peace,

Boski

Feel better neal,  Hey put the gun away! 
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #80 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 4:28pm
 
CKRS Report Part III - Post-Operative Day 5 - Report #1

       Well so far today, I have had 2 bouts with The Beast. One was around 2:00 am CST. The other one was the same old stubborn 4:30-5:00 am visit.
        Otherwise, shadows off and on all day so far.
         Still can't tell any loss in sensation.
       I start back to work tomorrow, so any reports during the week will be either early am or later pm. Not looking forward to seeing my email inbox or the stack of crap on my desk! I guess it's job security, though!
        This cycle started with one hit per day, then two, then four, now back to two it seems. Waiting for ZERO, and an end to months and months of this crap!!
       PFDAN to all!
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Guiseppi
CH.com Moderator
CH.com Alumnus
*****
Offline


San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011


Posts: 12063
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #81 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 4:53pm
 
Praying right with you that the end is near neal!

Joe
Back to top
  

"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.
 
IP Logged
 
Lettucehead
CH.com Old Timer
****
Offline


I am very blessed...


Posts: 293
Iowa
Gender: female
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #82 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 9:24pm
 
Thinking of you, Neal!
Keep us informed!
Smiley
Back to top
  

Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear... 'The Terminator' AKA CH
 
IP Logged
 
George
CH.com Moderator
CH.com Alumnus
*****
Offline


Black-Billed Magpie


Posts: 8126
Boise, Idaho USA
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #83 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 9:44pm
 
Keeping fingers crossed that all goes well for you, Neal.

Thanks, by the way, for your continuing reports on your progress.  This sort of information is valuable to the community and all the members here, and it is much appreciated.

Best wishes,

George
Back to top
  

"Whoever loveth me, loveth my hound."  (Thomas More, author of "Utopia", and Chancellor of England.  1477-1535)
WWW George jacox6820 7165032563  
IP Logged
 
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #84 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 10:31pm
 
George wrote on Aug 8th, 2010 at 9:44pm:
Thanks, by the way, for your continuing reports on your progress.  This sort of information is valuable to the community and all the members here, and it is much appreciated.


     Thanks George! Continuing reports are not a problem, and it's my intention to keep making them until we know if this procedure was successful or not. Nobody cares more about  clusterheads and finding things that work than clusterheads!   
      That said, if six weeks go by and they haven't stopped, I will assume that the procedure was a failure, make a post to that effect, and stop posting reports. After all, the neurosurgeon and the neurologist both said that it would probably take 2 to 4 weeks, and maybe as many as 6, for this procedure to be effective.
      "The wai-ai-ting is the hard-est part." - Tom Petty  Smiley
      
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #85 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 9:31pm
 
CKRS Report Part III -Post-Operative Day 6 -Report # 1

       I had my usual early morning attack, c. 4:30-5:00 am. If I had any others while sleeping, I wasn't awakened by it/them.
       Some shadows off and on during the day.
       Still no change in facial sensation.
        However, I am for some reason absolutely exhausted and my nerves are somewhat frayed. Also rather depressed today. Maybe they irradiated my energy, patience, and joy centers instead of the stupid tri-G nerve.
       Developed a real bad toothache about mid-day today. From what my dentist told me a while back, I may be getting a root canal of that tooth. Oh f-ing joy! Will be seeing the dentist tomorrow afternoon after a meeting at work. @&/:#%;!!!!!!
       I need some good luck instead of this incessant parade of horribles! Sorry for the bad attitude!
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2010 at 9:33pm by Neal »  
 
IP Logged
 
Guiseppi
CH.com Moderator
CH.com Alumnus
*****
Offline


San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011


Posts: 12063
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #86 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 9:46pm
 
Hnag in there neal. Cry

Joe
Back to top
  

"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.
 
IP Logged
 
Headache Boy uk
CH.com Old Timer
****
Offline


Matthew ch 11 v 28


Posts: 373
Mersea Island nr Colchester
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #87 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 10:34pm
 
Hay Neal

You can shout , growl and moan as much as you like here too. Helps to get that stuff off your chest , and we don't mined  Wink

thoughts and prayers coming your way.

God bless

Nigel
Back to top
  

You can't speak a kind word too soon, For you never know how soon it will be too late.

Some people cause happyness wherever they go, others whenever they go
 
IP Logged
 
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #88 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 12:47am
 
CKRS Report Part III - Post-operative Day 7- Report # 1

       Well, I had the usual 4:30-5:00 am visit today. Other than that, shadows off and on, until after some dental work (see below).
        Still no noticeable change in facial sensation.
       Like I said in yesterday's post, I went to the dentist today regarding some extreme tooth pain. Had to get a root canal. One thing I learned from that is that next to CH, root canals are the second worst form of pain. At least for me so far in this life. Tooth was infected, when they "breached" the infected part, a stinky & foul-tasting pus issued forth. Ugh!
        After the root canal, I came home and made the monumental error of taking a nap. I thought I was just going to be lying down for a little while, but that was not to be the case. Woke up about 10:00 pm CST with what I believe was a "bonus" CH. I really should've known better! Oh well.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2010 at 8:37am by Neal »  
 
IP Logged
 
-johnny-
CH.com Sponsor
***
Offline


theres no smoking on the
dock


Posts: 1642
fayette county ohio
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #89 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:30am
 
since very few of us know it might be nice if you hung out to advise another clusterhead who may be considering the same kinda treatment.  Smiley
Back to top
  

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
 
IP Logged
 
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #90 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 2:59am
 
-johnny- wrote on Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:30am:
since very few of us know it might be nice if you hung out to advise another clusterhead who may be considering the same kinda treatment.  Smiley


          No problem. I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone may have, if there's something that I did not cover in any of my reports. If anyone would rather ask me privately, feel free to PM me.
         So far, I've only had the procedure, and it has yet to be effective. But the docs did say it would be at least a couple of weeks, and maybe up to 6 weeks, before we know if it really worked. I hope it works, and I hope it's within the 2 weeks, rather than having to wait for 6 weeks! If six weeks go by and still no relief, though, I will assume the procedure was a failure and stop posting, and consider other options. The six full post-op weeks will be up on September 14th.
         But as you are already aware, I'm sure, I've been posting daily post-op reports. Part I was about the preliminary things to get ready for the procedure, Part II was about the procedure itself, and Part III are daily reports as to my observations, any clusters along the way, etc., including the occasional bitching & moaning about things in general.
       But as much help and support this site and its wonderful members have been to me over the years, I figure I may as well "give back to the community". I was a "lurker" here for many years before joining and becoming a member. But without this site and the supportive atmosphere, I very well may have "checked out" by now! Smiley
       But again, if anyone has any questions, either post them here on this thread or PM me and I will answer when I can. My posts will usually be either in the early morning or in the evening after work (usually after work).
       Well, back to bed, gotta go to work tomorrow! PFDAN to all! Clusters suck!
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2010 at 3:02am by Neal »  
 
IP Logged
 
Brew
CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 14163
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #91 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 7:09am
 
Quote:
One thing I learned from that is that next to CH, root canals are the second worst form of pain.

Did you not have a local anesthetic during the procedure? I agree that keeping your mouth open for an hour or more can be a pain in the ass, but second worst form of pain?
Back to top
  

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
IP Logged
 
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #92 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 8:35am
 
Brew wrote on Aug 11th, 2010 at 7:09am:
Quote:
One thing I learned from that is that next to CH, root canals are the second worst form of pain.

Did you not have a local anesthetic during the procedure? I agree that keeping your mouth open for an hour or more can be a pain in the ass, but second worst form of pain?


       Yep. At least for this particular root canal. Lots of local anesthetic. 2 or 3 novocain injections to start with, another 1 or 2 about halfway through, and then another one near the end. The dentist said it was so infected that if I had waited another day or two, he probably couldn't have deadened it at all! Yikes! I'd never heard of such a thing, but after yesterday I believe him! Almost the whole right side of my face was numb, but the tooth - well, not so much! There were several moments during the procedure when I about came completely out of the dental chair during the procedure, especially when he really got way up in there! I had visions of the movie Marathon Man - it wouldn't have surprised me if the dentist had asked repeatedly, "Is it safe?" I've only had a root canal once before, and it was nothing as painful as this one.
      But so far, yes, that is the second worst pain I've felt in my 40-something years, second only to CH! The moral of my dental adventure is - if your tooth hurts, don't wait until it's unbearable, go immediately to the dentist; otherwise it may get so infected that Novocain isn't as effective as it should be (or at all)!
      Will post the usual CKRS report after I get home from work. Sorry for going so off-topic!
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
boski
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


CH'S Suck for all that
Suffer / The Pain The
Pain


Posts: 208
NYC
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #93 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 8:44am
 
Moral to story don't let an infected tooth wait!

That blows!
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Callico
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline


Author of "Stranded at
Romson's Lodge


Posts: 4916
Aurora IL
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #94 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 10:56am
 
Brew,

A toth with a live infection cnnot be deadened to any extent.  Been there, and I agree with Neal on the pain level.  Much worse than a broken bone or anything else I've suffered.

Jerry
Back to top
  

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of dung by the clean end." Texas A&M Student (unknown)
Jerry Callison  
IP Logged
 
Brew
CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline




Posts: 14163
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #95 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 4:47pm
 
It's my understanding that when the dentist gives a local anesthetic, it is applied to a nerve branch that will deaden everything behind that point - which is why the whole side of your jaw goes numb when they have to work in the back of your mouth.

I understand all too well how the pH of an infected, abscessed area will neutralize a local anesthetic (don't ask for details - too gross and embarrassing), but why would they even give a local if it was known that it wouldn't work? The numbing agent is, from what I understood, applied further up the nerve from where the tooth nerve joins the branch.

I've had two root canals and I felt no pain except the prick of the needle going in to numb it up.
Back to top
  

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
IP Logged
 
Callico
CH.com Hall of Famer
*****
Offline


Author of "Stranded at
Romson's Lodge


Posts: 4916
Aurora IL
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #96 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 6:00pm
 
I've had three Bill,  of which two were virtually painless because the Dr had time to put in a temporary filling with anti biotic in it to kill the infection first.  The first one I had was while in college and I had to have it done over Christmas vacation, so it had o be done while the nerves were hot.  He used 9 shots of Novocaine (three doses) and then went on with the procedure.  He held myhead in the crook of his arm to hold me still enough to work on it.  He said he would never do another while the infection was still there, and I told him he didn't have to worry.  He would never do another on me.  He didn't!

Jerry
Back to top
  

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of dung by the clean end." Texas A&M Student (unknown)
Jerry Callison  
IP Logged
 
boski
CH.com Alumnus
***
Offline


CH'S Suck for all that
Suffer / The Pain The
Pain


Posts: 208
NYC
Gender: male
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #97 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 7:12pm
 
Everyone is right!

There are ones that are pain free!  Like mine!  lucky me!!!

But yes!  If badly infected it hurts like a mother and a half!
I don't know the reason but my wife had one done while
infected not to the point like Neal had but bad.  Dentist said
same thing.   Also have had friends that have had bad ones
tell me same story, must be something to it.

I had no pain or swelling when they pulled my wisdom teeth
but boy was I surprised when they had to bust up the 2
bottom ones.  I had one top one and thought that was
EZ.  Went in to have a lower and upper pulled.  Dentist
asked you want to pull all 3.  Thinking that it was going to
be like the 1 top one I had done!  I say yeah I'm here let's
get it over with.  Big mistake.  But it didn't hurt,  just the
sound of the teeth being broken right next to my ears!  It
was a dam good thing we did all 3. Not sure I would come
back for that again.  Weird sound.

Boski
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #98 - Aug 11th, 2010 at 11:50pm
 
CKRS Report Part III - Post-operative Day 8 - Report #1

       Once again, had my c. 4:30-5:00 am hit.
        Shadows on & off throughout the day. For the most part, the shadows do seem a little bit less painful. However, I did have one that felt like an attack was about to start, but before I could get my Imitrex injector kit out & ready, it had passed. That was my shortest shadow yet. Less than ten minutes. But like I said, it felt like The Beast was about to pay me a rather unpleasant visit (increasing pain, red eye, "Horner's syndrome", etc) and then it just vanished. Strange.
       I still cannot tell any difference in facial sensation.
       Well, I guess that's all for now. It's just about time for bed -I have an early-morning meeting at work tomorrow and need to get some sleep.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Neal
CH.com Junior
**
Offline


I Love CH.com!


Posts: 94
Re: Cyberknife radiosurgery?
Reply #99 - Aug 12th, 2010 at 9:46pm
 
CKRS Report Part III - Post-Operative Day 9- Report #1

       Well, for the first time in months, I woke up feeling halfway decent. Which was good, as I had an early morning meeting at work to get to. If I had the usual visit this morning around 4:30-5:00 am, it did not wake me up and was much milder. Like I say, I woke up feeling better than usual.
      Had some shadows during the morning, but then about 2:20 pm CST, I got nailed with a K8. Put my sticky note "Cluster Headache in progress - PLEASE do not disturb!" on the door to my office, shut the door (thank God I have an office with a door!) took an Imitrex injection, squirmed around in my chair, and pretty soon The Beast had me on the ground about ready to cry. Did my best to be quiet, hoping nobody heard me saying bad words and pleas to the Almighty under my breath. Really wanted to scream & shout but did not. About 2:45 The Beast left me a crumpled mass on the floor. Picked myself up off of the floor and got back to work. Shadows since then.
       I wish the freaking nerve root would go numb or die already! But I've got at least a few more days before that happens, at least according to the docs. Oh well, c'est la vie.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Send Topic Print

DISCLAIMER: All information contained on this web site is for informational purposes only.  It is in no way intended to be used as a replacement for professional medical treatment.   clusterheadaches.com makes no claims as to the scientific/clinical validity of the information on this site OR to that of the information linked to from this site.  All information taken from the internet should be discussed with a medical professional!