Click this link to read a post I like on the clusterheadaches.com message board...

howard CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 12	capsaicin sprays Jul 29^th, 2010 at 5:49pm Has anyone out there tried capsaicin nasal spays as a preventative? What success if any has there been? howard
Back to top	IP Logged

Chad CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 738 Emmaus, PA Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #1 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 7:27am I had the pepper nasal spray as I call it. It never worked for me, however I tried to use it as an abortive many years ago. If anything, it made my nose burn like hell and I still had the cluster at the same time. I think it's good for sinus issues though.
Back to top	When the PAIN starts, I FIGHT back! Rivea Corymbosa seeds were my KO punch, now D3 is the front runner! IP Logged

Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #2 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 7:39am Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Thanks OUCH
Back to top	Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!" IP Logged

Guiseppi

CH.com Moderator
CH.com Alumnus

Offline

San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011

Posts: 12063
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA
Gender: male

Re: capsaicin sprays
Reply #3 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 11:05am

There are some studies going on now using the extracts from capsaicin as pain killers. I think there is something to it, but it's still in a very primitive form.

Getting pain relief from pepper spray up your nose would be like hoping to get penicillin in your system by eating moldy bread! There's an infitismally small chance you might get lucky, but there are much better odds of relief elsewhere!

Joe

Back to top

"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.

IP Logged

howard CH.com Newbie Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 12	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #4 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 11:56am Thanks all for confirming my feelings. It was recommended to me by a well meaning non CH friend howard
Back to top	IP Logged

Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #5 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 12:47pm I think the pepper spray premise is that you use it on a regular basis. The pain from putting it up nose eventuall depletes the body's reserve of "substance P" which is the stuff that makes hurt hurt (it enhances pain). You still get cluster attacks but they don't hurt as bad because all the substance P is used up.
Back to top	Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!" IP Logged

AlienSpaceGuy CH.com Old Timer Offline Greetings from outer space Posts: 254 Northpole Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #6 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 1:55pm The 4 papers quoted on the OUCH pages are 16 to 21 years old. That should be more than enough time for this treatment to show better results than the questionable Sinus Buster only. Therefore, I consider capsaicin treatment a dead fish.
Back to top	AlienSpaceGuy believes only in scientifically sound methods. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or IP Logged

Arde CH.com Junior Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 76 Dayton, TX. Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #7 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 2:09pm Don't know anything about capsaicin nasal sprays. What is the intended purpose of this stuff anyway? I just can't imagine spraying capsaicin in my nose for any reason. Seems like one of those things a 6 yr. old might try, and remember to never ever ever do again. Would seem to me to be along the same line as Tabasco eye drops.
Back to top	Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or IP Logged

Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #8 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 3:16pm or a habenero suppository.
Back to top	"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand IP Logged

QnHeartMM CH.com Sponsor Offline I AM a Phoenix! Posts: 1783 San Diego, CA Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #9 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 4:13pm Brew wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010 at 3:16pm: or a habenero suppository. OUCHIE!
Back to top	Treat people with kind words. IP Logged

Guiseppi

CH.com Moderator
CH.com Alumnus

Offline

San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011

Posts: 12063
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA
Gender: male

Re: capsaicin sprays
Reply #10 - Jul 30^th, 2010 at 5:59pm

They have done more recent studies on the stuff...... For those who like to read!!!

Capsaicin is currently used in topical ointments, as well as a high-dose dermal patch (trade name Qutenza, one 30- to 60-minute-application every 90 days), to relieve the pain of peripheral neuropathy such as post-herpetic neuralgia caused by shingles It may be used in concentrations of between 0.025% and 0.075%. It may be used as a cream for the temporary relief of minor aches and pains of muscles and joints associated with arthritis, simple backache, strains and sprains, often in compounds with other rubefacients. The treatment typically involves the application of a topical anesthetic until the area is numb. Then the capsaicin is applied by a therapist wearing rubber gloves and a face mask. The capsaicin remains on the skin until the patient starts to feel the "heat", at which point it is promptly removed. Capsaicin is also available in large bandages that can be applied to the back.

In 1997, a research team led by David Julius of UCSF showed that capsaicin selectively binds to a protein known as TRPV1 that resides on the membranes of pain and heat sensing neurons. TRPV1 is a heat activated calcium channel, which opens between 37 and 45 °C. When capsaicin binds to TRPV1, it causes the channel to open below 37 °C (normal human body temperature), which is why capsaicin is linked to the sensation of heat. Prolonged activation of these neurons by capsaicin depletes presynaptic substance P, one of the body's neurotransmitters for pain and heat. Neurons that do not contain TRPV1 are unaffected.

The result appears to be that the chemical mimics a burning sensation, the nerves are overwhelmed by the influx, and are unable to report pain for an extended period of time. (This is what Bob was talking about)With chronic exposure to capsaicin, neurons are depleted of neurotransmitters, leading to reduction in sensation of pain and blockade of neurogenic inflammation. If capsaicin is removed, the neurons recover.[citation needed]

Capsaicin is also the key ingredient in the experimental drug Adlea, which is in Phase 2 trials as a long-acting analgesic to treat post-surgical and osteoarthritis pain for weeks to months after a single injection to the site of pain.[35] More over, it reduces pain resulted rheumatoid arthritis[36] as well as joint or muscle pain from fibromyalgia or other causes.

That's why I think eventually it may turn out to be useful for us! Or not! Wink

Joe

Back to top

"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.

IP Logged

Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #11 - Jul 31^st, 2010 at 8:30am Quote: The 4 papers quoted on the OUCH pages are 16 to 21 years old. That should be more than enough time for this treatment to show better results than the questionable Sinus Buster only. Therefore, I consider capsaicin treatment a dead fish. You're like 100 years old but we don't consider you a dead fish.
Back to top	Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!" IP Logged

Callico

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Author of "Stranded at
Romson's Lodge

Posts: 4916
Aurora IL
Gender: male

Re: capsaicin sprays
Reply #12 - Aug 1^st, 2010 at 1:45am

Guiseppi wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010 at 5:59pm:

They have done more recent studies on the stuff...... For those who like to read!!!

Capsaicin is currently used in topical ointments, as well as a high-dose dermal patch (trade name Qutenza, one 30- to 60-minute-application every 90 days), to relieve the pain of peripheral neuropathy such as post-herpetic neuralgia caused by shingles It may be used in concentrations of between 0.025% and 0.075%. It may be used as a cream for the temporary relief of minor aches and pains of muscles and joints associated with arthritis, simple backache, strains and sprains, often in compounds with other rubefacients. The treatment typically involves the application of a topical anesthetic until the area is numb. Then the capsaicin is applied by a therapist wearing rubber gloves and a face mask. The capsaicin remains on the skin until the patient starts to feel the "heat", at which point it is promptly removed. Capsaicin is also available in large bandages that can be applied to the back.

In 1997, a research team led by David Julius of UCSF showed that capsaicin selectively binds to a protein known as TRPV1 that resides on the membranes of pain and heat sensing neurons. TRPV1 is a heat activated calcium channel, which opens between 37 and 45 °C. When capsaicin binds to TRPV1, it causes the channel to open below 37 °C (normal human body temperature), which is why capsaicin is linked to the sensation of heat. Prolonged activation of these neurons by capsaicin depletes presynaptic substance P, one of the body's neurotransmitters for pain and heat. Neurons that do not contain TRPV1 are unaffected.

The result appears to be that the chemical mimics a burning sensation, the nerves are overwhelmed by the influx, and are unable to report pain for an extended period of time. (This is what Bob was talking about)With chronic exposure to capsaicin, neurons are depleted of neurotransmitters, leading to reduction in sensation of pain and blockade of neurogenic inflammation. If capsaicin is removed, the neurons recover.[citation needed]

Capsaicin is also the key ingredient in the experimental drug Adlea, which is in Phase 2 trials as a long-acting analgesic to treat post-surgical and osteoarthritis pain for weeks to months after a single injection to the site of pain.[35] More over, it reduces pain resulted rheumatoid arthritis[36] as well as joint or muscle pain from fibromyalgia or other causes.

That's why I think eventually it may turn out to be useful for us! Or not! Wink

Joe

Thnk it would do anything for Jock Itch? Smiley

Back to top

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of dung by the clean end." Texas A&M Student (unknown)

IP Logged

Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #13 - Aug 1^st, 2010 at 9:25am Callico wrote on Aug 1^st, 2010 at 1:45am: Thnk it would do anything for Jock Itch? TMI, dude.
Back to top	"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand IP Logged

Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #14 - Aug 1^st, 2010 at 9:48am Thnk it would do anything for Jock Itch? Oh yes....it would do SOMETHING!!!!!!
Back to top	"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean. IP Logged

capeferrelometal

CH.com Newbie

Offline

I Love CH.com!

Posts: 1

Re: capsaicin sprays
Reply #15 - Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 8:23pm

Hey everyone, brand new to the forum (sadly not to CHs, which I've had on and off for 25 years or so). Thought I'd chime in on the capsaicin topic. I've been using it as an abortive for about three years now, and it's been wonderful for me. Oxygen and cold air are marginally effective for me, and pills and injections are not my friends. I have to qualify things by saying my CHs are episodic, usually weather, smell, or alcohol triggered, and don't seem to be as severe as some people get, though I can only speak to my experience. Since using capsaicin intra-nasally, the severity and someties the duration, of my CHs has lessened considerably. Now, it doesn't leave me pain free immediately, but nothing does. It does burn impressively, but it's a pin prick compared to the headache. And, oddly, it's a comforting burn. As soon as I feel my symptoms come on I put some casaisin on my skin and on a swab and up the nose it goes...as often as needed, and while I still hurt, I find I can get some things done, and sleep. My CHs are always daytime events, and often last upwards of 12 to 18 hours, so I rarely get sleep for several days a cycle I get them.

I have a good friend living nearby who also suffers from CHs, and capsaicin hasn't done anything for him, so as they say, your mileage may vary. I am not submitting a recommendation, simply my experience.

Finally, thanks to everyone for this forum...I've started searching it for information, help, and insight. It's wonderful. As an aside, I happen to also be an adult with AD/HD. There is no connection as far as I can tell, but I'd be interested in hearing from others with both conditions about any unique experiences or triggers.

Back to top

IP Logged

seaworthy CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Posts: 706	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #16 - Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 8:34pm a habenero suppository Thats just wrong.
Back to top	IP Logged

Bob P CH.com Hall of Famer Offline Shut up Bob! Posts: 4573 Clio,California Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #17 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 6:40am Our old friend Paco used to put Tobasco under his tongue. In fact, he handed out little bottles of the stuff at the Atlanta OUCH convention many years ago.
Back to top	Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!" IP Logged

Batch

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Control The Beast With
O2 & D3 You Must

Posts: 3708
Bremerton, WA
Gender: male

Re: capsaicin sprays
Reply #18 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 11:00am

This is just too good to pass up...

Think about it... When was the last time you saw a post saying capsaicin nasal spray is better than sliced bread at stopping the pain of cluster headaches??? I ran a search using the Google search engine at the top of the page for threads that contained "capsaicin" and another search containing "capsaicin" and "worked" or "works." I also ran a third search on "capsaisin" in case there was a typo or it was misspelled.

Of the 27 hits on these search terms there were no conclusive first hand accounts on the efficacy of capsaicins for CH. There was one secondhand account of efficacy from 1999. Two studies on the use capsaicins for CH popped up so I checked ClinicalTrials.gov and found both of them.

The most significant finding of one study of 15 CH'ers using capsaicins sponsored by Winston Labs, who makes "their version of capsaicin" called civamide (zucapsaicin) was a "decrease in the severity of CH pain..."

One of our members actually took part in this study, but was given the placebo... so had no first hand evidence or conclusive comments on the efficacy of civamide (zucapsaicin).

The most authoritative report published in Cephalalgia in 2008 titled: "Treatment of cluster headache in pregnancy and lactation" by Jüergens TP, Schaefer C & May A concluded that among interventional treatments for cluster headache during pregnancy and lactation, "there is insufficient experience with pizotifen, melatonin and capsaicin."

Dr. Arne May MD, Professor of Neurology, Department of Systems
Neuroscience, University Clinic Hamburg Eppendorf (UKE), is a square shooter. If there is clear medical evidence of efficacy for a particular method of intervention for CH... he'll tell you. If it's unclear or doesn't exist, he'll tell you that as well... Dr. May is also the principal author of the EFNS guidelines on the treatment of cluster headache and other trigeminal-autonomic cephalalgias listed in the National Guideline Clearinghouse.

I had the opportunity to spend a couple days meeting with Dr. May and tour his facilities at the University Clinic Hamburg Eppendorf (UKE). He spends half his time in the lab doing functional neuroimaging and the other half doing clinical work seeing mostly patients suffering from migraines and CH...

He's done several studies of cluster headache sufferers using functional neuroimaging. He's also done a similar functional neuroimaging study involving experimental pain induced by capsaicin injection into the forehead. From his functional neruoimaging studies, he's seen no benefit from capsaicins for CH'ers.

Prof. Dr. May has a fascinating article on cluster headaches in the Oxford Journals titled: Headache: lessons learned from functional imaging. In this article, he provides a compelling argument based on his studies using functional imaging on the age old question... Are cluster headaches neurogenic or vascular? See the following link:

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Having said all that, there may a potential benefit from capsaicins, but IMHO, you don't get it by spraying it up your nose or shooting it up your back side... You eat hot peppers... or pepper sauce.

Eating hot peppers or putting pepper sauce on food doesn't appear to do anything for CH, but our brains react to this irritant by dumping endorphins (endogenous opioid peptides) into the bloodstream and in short order, we get a pleasant buzz... Runners get it and it's called the "runner's high."

I've know several die-hard marathoners that start going through withdrawal as bad as the Mad Viking when he was hooked on morphine if they go more than a few days without a "fix" from running three to four miles... I've also worked others who went through similar withdrawal symptoms if they didn't get "hot sauce" on their food.

I've gone through a couple pounds of Jalapeños and a bottle of Chipotle Tabasco sauce a week and although I got a pleasant buzz, they had no effect on the frequency or intensity of my CH.

Bottom line... while you might get a buzz from eating hot peppers or hot sauce, capsaicins appear do little for CH. Moreover, from the information I've read from credible sources regarding the efficacy of capsaicins as an intervention for cluster headache... as they say on the TV series MythBusters... "BUSTED."

Take care,

V/R, Batch

Back to top

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there

IP Logged

ClosetCHer

CH.com Junior

Offline

Posts: 52
United States
Gender: male

Re: capsaicin sprays
Reply #19 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 11:30am

Not long ago I saw part of an episode of Dr. Oz as my wife was watching it in the living room. During this episode he did a section on the different types of headaches and correlating treatments. CH was one of the headaches that he covered and I was astounded when he revealed Sinus Buster with capsaicin as a treatment for CH! My wife and I got a good laugh out of it. I tried Sinus Buster prior to seeing this Dr. Oz episode and only had seconds of pain relief while my face burned. Not worth the price at all. Dr. Oz and his team should do some research, but then again I'm sure Sinus Buster threw the Doc some cash to advertise their product.

Back to top

IP Logged

AussieBrian CH.com Hall of Famer Offline CH - It's all in your head! Posts: 3851 Cairns, Qld, Australia Gender:	Re: capsaicin sprays Reply #20 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 7:14pm I was sniffing my way along Denny's spice-rack, looking for that special something to finish a casserole, when I accidentally got a chunk of cayenne pepper up my nose. Sneezed so much I ended up with a headache.
Back to top	My name is Brian. I'm a ClusterHead and I'm here to help. Email me anytime at briandinkum@yahoo.com IP Logged

bejeeber

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Posts: 1359
Gnashville
Gender: male

Re: capsaicin sprays
Reply #21 - Apr 23^rd, 2011 at 10:39pm

Some 20 or so years ago there was an article published about using Zostrix cream (capsaicin) on a Q tip, inserted up the shnoz and rubbed around up there to abort CH attacks.

So when my next episode came along I gave it a whirl. Pretty darn burny on the 'ol sinus lemme tell ya but of course it was just a lil' BFD kinda tickle compared to you know beasty who. And danged if I didn't abort a few attacks with it.

These were not likely going to be ultra severe attacks though - my attacks ramp up gradually in severity and frequency during an episode, and I've been known to be able to abort the first ones with 10 LPM rebreather O2 or freezing air or exercise. After the first week none of that stuff does jack though and neither did the capsaicin.

I tried the sinus buster during my last episode and it quashed some shadows at least during that first week, but then lost effectiveness.

Back to top

CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.

IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
	Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!