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Depakote-Imitrex-O2 (Read 1876 times)
Kevin
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Depakote-Imitrex-O2
Nov 14th, 2010 at 6:14pm
 
I haven't been on here for a while. I am working non-stop and have been in remission for a while.  My current cycle started 7 days ago, but feels like a year.  I have a Dr appointment on Wednesday and wanted to see what you all recommend, since you are the experts!  I used to get mine at night, now they are at night, then almost every 2-4 hours during the day with constant shadows in between.  Last 2 times I was on Depakote 250mg and O2.  I use the Imitrex trick but try not to over due it.  I am getting slammed this time and aren't really sure what to do.  Dep doesn't feel like it is doing anything, and I am going through O2 like water.. Any suggestions would be greatly apprciated.
God bless,
Kevin
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Guiseppi
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Re: Depakote-Imitrex-O2
Reply #1 - Nov 14th, 2010 at 10:58pm
 
Ask your doc about Verapamil. It's a very common first line prevent that has proven succesful for many on the board. We use it at a dose higher then most docs are used to, some go as high as 960 mg a day to get relief.

I drink an energy drink, sugar free red bull, while I abort with oxygen. Seems to really push back the come backer attacks. Might be worth a shot to see if you can cut down on the attacks until you can ask your doc about verapamil.

I use lithium, at 1200 mg a day for my prevent. It blocks about 60-70% of my attacks. If the verapamil doesn't work that might be worth a try too. Good luck! Wink

Joe
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Kevin_M
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Re: Depakote-Imitrex-O2
Reply #2 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 7:24am
 
Kevin wrote on Nov 14th, 2010 at 6:14pm:
Dep doesn't feel like it is doing anything, and I am going through O2 like water.. Any suggestions would be greatly apprciated.


It seems the depakote as a preventive med is not.  Hang in, as Guiseppi mentions, verap could work, but at this point maybe a prednisone taper to get the verap to an effective level for you, and to give you a break.

Welcome back.
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« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2010 at 7:25am by Kevin_M »  
 
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Depakote-Imitrex-O2
Reply #3 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 7:50am
 
Yes, Prednisone immediately to give a fast break in the cycle while a long term preventive is getting started.

My bias is "agin" Dep because the track record has yet to be established for effectiveness whereas Verapamil has a long history of effectiveness and safety.

Suggest you print this prococol and use it as a discussion tool with your doc.
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Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   

Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.


    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).

=======================================
SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented.

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Read these two to catch up on current treatments:
PDF file, below.
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Cluster headache.
From: Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register (Orphanet Journal of Rare Diseases)
[Easy to read; one of the better overview articles I've seen. Suggest printing the full length article--link, line above--if you are serious about keeping a good medical library on the subject.]

Leroux E, Ducros A.

ABSTRACT: Cluster headache (CH) is a primary headache disease characterized by recurrent short-lasting attacks (15 to 180 minutes) of excruciating unilateral periorbital pain accompanied by ipsilateral autonomic signs (lacrimation, nasal congestion, ptosis, miosis, lid edema, redness of the eye). It affects young adults, predominantly males. Prevalence is estimated at 0.5-1.0/1,000. CH has a circannual and circadian periodicity, attacks being clustered (hence the name) in bouts that can occur during specific months of the year. ALCOHOL IS THE ONLY DIETARY TRIGGER OF CH, STRONG ODORS (MAINLY SOLVENTS AND CIGARETTE SMOKE) AND NAPPING MAY ALSO TRIGGER CH ATTACKS. During bouts, attacks may happen at precise hours, especially during the night. During the attacks, patients tend to be restless. CH may be episodic or chronic, depending on the presence of remission periods. CH IS ASSOCIATED WITH TRIGEMINOVASCULAR ACTIVATION AND NEUROENDOCRINE AND VEGETATIVE DISTURBANCES, HOWEVER, THE PRECISE CAUSATIVE MECHANISMS REMAIN UNKNOWN. Involvement of the hypothalamus (a structure regulating endocrine function and sleep-wake rhythms) has been confirmed, explaining, at least in part, the cyclic aspects of CH. The disease is familial in about 10% of cases. Genetic factors play a role in CH susceptibility, and a causative role has been suggested for the hypocretin receptor gene. Diagnosis is clinical. Differential diagnoses include other primary headache diseases such as migraine, paroxysmal hemicrania and SUNCT syndrome. At present, there is no curative treatment. There are efficient treatments to shorten the painful attacks (acute treatments) and to reduce the number of daily attacks (prophylactic treatments). Acute treatment is based on subcutaneous administration of sumatriptan and high-flow oxygen. Verapamil, lithium, methysergide, prednisone, greater occipital nerve blocks and topiramate may be used for prophylaxis. In refractory cases, deep-brain stimulation of the hypothalamus and greater occipital nerve stimulators have been tried in experimental settings.THE DISEASE COURSE OVER A LIFETIME IS UNPREDICTABLE. Some patients have only one period of attacks, while in others the disease evolves from episodic to chronic form.

PMID: 18651939 [PubMed]
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« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2010 at 7:56am by Bob Johnson »  
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Bob Johnson
 
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Guiseppi
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Re: Depakote-Imitrex-O2
Reply #4 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 9:53am
 
What Bob said, I was hoping he'd pipe in with that article! Smiley

Joe
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Kevin
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Re: Depakote-Imitrex-O2
Reply #5 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 12:19pm
 
Thanks all for your advice.  I think the verap I was on before was too low a dosage based on what you are all saying.  One last one.  Imitrex.  How much is too much?  If I give myself a have injection in the late evening then a half in the am (trying to balance sleep and work), is that too much?  What if it is daily?   Too much??  THANKS!!
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mikstudie
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Re: Depakote-Imitrex-O2
Reply #6 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 12:50pm
 
Kevin wrote on Nov 15th, 2010 at 12:19pm:
Thanks all for your advice.  I think the verap I was on before was too low a dosage based on what you are all saying.  One last one.  Imitrex.  How much is too much?  If I give myself a have injection in the late evening then a half in the am (trying to balance sleep and work), is that too much?  What if it is daily?   Too much??  THANKS!!




Ask your doctor on that,Imitrex is nothing to mess with.
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IT'S JUST A HEADACHE,TAKE TWO ASPRIN AND GO TO BED!!!
 
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Depakote-Imitrex-O2
Reply #7 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 2:15pm
 
Neurology. 2006 Oct 10;67(7):1128-34. [Publisher's note: information  correct as of 1/27/09.]
Risk of ischemic complications related to the intensity of triptan and ergotamine use.

Wammes-van der Heijden EA, Rahimtoola H, Leufkens HG, Tijssen CC, Egberts AC.

Division of Pharmacoepidemiology and Pharmacotherapy, Utrecht Institute for Pharmaceutical Sciences, Faculty of Science, Utrecht University, The Netherlands.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate whether the intensity of triptan and ergotamine use, in specific overuse, is associated with the risk of ischemic complications. METHODS: We conducted a retrospective nested case-control study using data from the PHARMO Record Linkage System. All patients with more than one prescription for either a triptan or ergotamine were initially identified. Cases were all patients who were admitted to the hospital for an ischemic complication. Matched controls were assigned the same index date as the cases. The determinant was the intensity of use of triptans and ergotamine during 1 year preceding the index date. OVERUSE WAS DEFINED AS USE OF > OR =90 DEFINED DAILY DOSES DURING THAT YEAR. Conditional logistic regression was used to estimate odds ratios (ORs), adjusting for confounders. Stratified analysis was used to estimate the risk for both patients using and those not using cardiovascular drugs. RESULTS: A total of 17,439 patients received more than one prescription. A total of 188 cases and 689 controls were identified. Triptan overuse was not associated with an increased risk of ischemic complications (OR 0.96; 95% CI: 0.49 to 1.90). Overuse of triptans in patients concomitantly using cardiovascular drugs did not increase this risk. Overuse of ergotamine turned out to be a risk factor for ischemic complications (OR 2.55; 95% CI: 1.22 to 5.36). Patients overusing ergotamine and concomitantly using cardiovascular drugs were at highest risk (OR 8.52; 95% CI 2.57 to 28.2).

CONCLUSIONS: IN GENERAL PRACTICE, TRIPTAN OVERUSE DOES NOT INCREASE THE RISK OF ISCHEMIC COMPLICATIONS. OVERUSE OF ERGOTAMINE MAY INCREASE THE RISK OF THESE COMPLICATIONS, ESPECIALLY IN THOSE SIMULTANEOUSLY USING CARDIOVASCULAR DRUGS.

PMID: 17030745 [PubMed ]
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Bob Johnson
 
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