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Increasing verapamil (Read 1580 times)
Layla328
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Increasing verapamil
Dec 8th, 2010 at 8:00pm
 
Please don't get mad at me for asking this--I know it is stupid. 
My doctor yesterday told me that I have had a 60% reduction in headaches but that he is not happy with that and wants me to double up on the verapamil at night b/c the headaches have not been eliminated (for example I had a breakthrough headache at 5:45 am today just as an example)--he thinks the dose I am taking right now is too low. (240 mg) (I take that with 12 mg melatonin and 4 benadryl per night)
He is really nice, and I am really glad I am taking verapamil.  But for some reason, I scare myself by googling every possible side effect of verapamil and imagining it will happen to me.  I don't know why I am so scared of medicine--maybe because I have never really had to take medicine?  Maybe some other verapamil user can reassure me?  Sorry if this sounds completely neurotic!
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JustNotRight
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #1 - Dec 8th, 2010 at 8:06pm
 
Many here are on a higher dose of verapamil than you are and have been for years, myself included.  To date the only occasional side affects I have had from it are mild ankle swelling and constipation.  Both can be dealt with by lowering your salt intake and adding fiber (fruits and veggies) and more olive oil in your diet.

Take it slow but heed your Doc's advice, if you start getting any side affects discuss them with your doctor.  If that happens there are other things you can try.

Hang in there!
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seaworthy
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #2 - Dec 8th, 2010 at 8:37pm
 
Quote:
occasional side affects I have had from it are mild ankle swelling and constipation


Beats the hell out of the alternative.

Listen to your Doc. Up the dose.
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Kris_in_SJ
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #3 - Dec 8th, 2010 at 8:46pm
 
During most of my cycles, I've done well on 240mg twice a day.  During the last two, I've had to increase to 360mg twice a day.  I still tend to shadow, but after a week at the higher dose, I've had no breakthrough clusters.  My only side effect has been constipation, but I'm hypertensive so actually benefit from the added dose.  Constipation is easy to deal with next to a kip 8-9.

As already said, follow your doc's advice.

Best Wishes, 

Kris
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jon019
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #4 - Dec 8th, 2010 at 9:15pm
 
Layla328 wrote on Dec 8th, 2010 at 8:00pm:
Please don't get mad at me for asking this--I know it is stupid. 

NOPE...not buyin'...the ONLY dumb question is the one not asked....


My doctor yesterday told me that I have had a 60% reduction in headaches but that he is not happy with that and wants me to double up on the verapamil at night b/c the headaches have not been eliminated

WAH-HOO! You shouldn't be satisfied with 60%...and a doc that believes same is a KEEPER!



(for example I had a breakthrough headache at 5:45 am today just as an example)--he thinks the dose I am taking right now is too low. (240 mg)

And I think he's right....chronic myself....480 maintenance dose....960+ in HIGH cycle...


(I take that with 12 mg melatonin and 4 benadryl per night)

Works for many...not for me...sigh


He is really nice, and I am really glad I am taking verapamil.  But for some reason, I scare myself by googling every possible side effect of verapamil and imagining it will happen to me.  I don't know why I am so scared of medicine--maybe because I have never really had to take medicine?  Maybe some other verapamil user can reassure me?  Sorry if this sounds completely neurotic!

Every med has side effects...knowing what to look for going in is a double edged sword. It can scare ya or prepare ya....then you have a conversation with your doc. For me constipation USED to be an issue. NOW, I take 250-500 mg of magnesium, drink lots of water, and eat a high fiber diet...no more problems....only blessed relief....

Best,

Jon


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Layla328
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #5 - Dec 8th, 2010 at 9:36pm
 
You all thank you so much for putting my mind at ease.  (I don't why I am such a worry wart--that is how I always am and then being in cycle raises my anxiety level I guess--nice combo lol!)  It is really good to hear from people who are on the medication and that it doesn't sound like you have had any bad side effects.  Also, yes, I did need a reminder of what the alternative is--NOT good.  The drug has really helped me a lot, and my doctor is the only one who has helped me so I will listen to his advice.  I love sleep!  I am getting too old for all of the wake up (or any) from the headaches. (Even at 30 it was easier to handle--had an easier time getting back to sleep.)  Thanks you all for being there--all the information gained here has been priceless.
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wimsey1
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #6 - Dec 9th, 2010 at 8:06am
 
In case one more testimony will help (can I get an AMEN?!) 240mg/day verapamil was having little or no effect on my cycle, and then when I was upped to 400mg/day, the cycle went into a much easier pattern of low KIP hits/shadows and nothing above a KIP 2. 9 months so far. Side effects as indicated above, and afternoon sleepy feelings. Beats the heck outta the alternative. Blessings. lance
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #7 - Dec 9th, 2010 at 8:13am
 
I recall, when I was about 10 or so, my mother and her generation talking about their fear of breast cancer. They often totally avoided exams--self or by their doc--lest something be found: As if ignorance would protect them. Today, this is attitude is stil killing men who avoid exams for prostate cancer even though it's the second largest killer of cancer deaths.

The long term issue is to learn how to cope with the unknown vs. being paralyzed with fear. Please see:
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====
The immediate issue of dosing. Verap has a long record of effectiveness and safety. The protocol for its use is widely used and, as you can see from its date, has been around for some time, so this is not a experimental approach. Why not print it out and use it to discuss your concerns with your doc....
===

Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   

Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.


    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).

=======================================
SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented.

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Bob Johnson
 
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Layla328
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #8 - Dec 9th, 2010 at 2:21pm
 
Lance, one more testimony does help, and I thank you for the encouragement.  Bob, as always thanks for the sound advice and information.  That is a good analogy with your mother and her friends and how you described it as being paralyzed by fear.  That is very true--I will say of myself I can sometimes be a big scaredy cat lol.  I did raise the dose last night with good results.  Only side effect is some hand tremors in the morning.  Which is nothing!  I think sometimes with CH I act like a deer caught in the head lights and it has been enormously helpful both to have a good doctor and to have you all encouraging action.  So thank you!
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Peter B
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #9 - Dec 16th, 2010 at 2:02pm
 
one more voice - I used to be wary of Verapamil but now am a fan. Can deal with constipation and hand tremors.

The only question I have for the group is what about rebounds when coming off Verapamil? Any experience there?
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Bob Johnson
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #10 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 8:07am
 
Peter, by definition "rebounds" arise from the use of pain meds and, perhaps, some abortives. Stopping Verap. might be followed by a shadow/headache if you stopped using it prematurely but it's not associated as a general response.

Please see the PDF file, below.
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Bob Johnson
 
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Peter B
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Re: Increasing verapamil
Reply #11 - Dec 17th, 2010 at 9:42am
 
thanks. I think I am going to lose it. Generally have cycles every few years, lasting 4 months at most. This cycle lasted for 5 months, and then when I finally tapered off Verapamil two weeks ago - I was hit with an inredibly stressful week. And the CH came back (it seems).

I do so hate this beast.
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