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123 Days PF And I Think I know Why (Read 444549 times)
Globi
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1325 - Mar 8th, 2013 at 9:50pm
 
Brew wrote on Mar 8th, 2013 at 7:51pm:
Globi wrote on Mar 8th, 2013 at 6:18pm:
So normal comments are not possible here?

Normal comments are welcome here. The size of the typeface has no bearing on normality.



That was not the base of my comment. It constantly repeating is and was more the problem. I've had the ONS operation. Imagine that i tell people here and in every topic that is the solution. Be careful in what you say. That is my message.
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horsegirl
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1326 - Mar 9th, 2013 at 12:37pm
 
I did the same thing on print size and felt like a idiot, anyways , I told you people could be rude here, but if you think about it most of us are in lots of pain with little sleep, so go figure, . Actualy batches post are the only ones I can read comfortably. My question is sense they treat vit d toxcisty with steroids it makes me wonder if I was able to take in the vit d I was taking . sense i was on steroid for last five weeks,  my doctor wont order the lab test to check my level so  i'm going to order a mail one.
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9thNerve
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1327 - Mar 9th, 2013 at 2:08pm
 
Wow...thinking everyone should take a DEEP breathe here and start over. Lots of chippin about nothing.

This is a supposed to be a blog, not a "pick on" site.

Why are we wasting effort on non-constructive (unless we want to look at the remarks as "entertainment") comments ?

Lets get back to business, folks.

Sorry, just my 2 cents.

(And I agree, vit D therapy is complex and there is a fine line about safety. Thats why you do the lab tests, folks. They actually use Vit D to kill rodents in orchards, just fyi. And in super high doses, it is toxic)


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Markmitch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1328 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 10:12am
 
I tried the D3 and fish oil and after 4 weeks I have not seen any change.
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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1329 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 10:16am
 
Hey Mark,

Thanks for the update...  Hang in there... the odds are still in your favor this regimen will start working for you...  A few CH'ers have taken as long as two months before experiencing a favorable response.

How much vitamin D3 are you taking and have you had the 25(OH)D lab test?  If so, what were the results?  I assume you're also taking the vitamin D3 cofactors: magnesium, zinc, vitamin A, vitamin K2 (MK-7) and boron.  These are all very important.

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2013 at 10:18am by Batch »  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Wayne
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1330 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 6:41pm
 
So Here's is a very unexpected result.

First some background. I've been a CH head since 2005, originally episodic then chronic from 2007 (which is when I took Verapamil for the first time during a cycle). I started taking the D3 regimen in July 2012 when I was going through a high cycle and the results were amazing, there was an almost immediate downturn in the hits and after less than a week I was completely PF. I had a blood test done in September 2012 returning a result of 78nmol/L which I thought was perfect so remained on a maintenance dose of 5000iu D3/day with all the co factors as recomended. I remained PF for 3 months after that and at the same time weaned off the verapamil and litium chronic cocktail that I had been taking.

In January this year I moved from Christchurch to Auckland and into the worst cycle I have experienced since 2006. The hits were completely unpredictable, occuring any time of the day or night and, worst of all, my old fallbacks ergotomine and energy drinks had limited effect. My first reaction was to increase the D3 intake to 10 000iu/day thinking that my blood concentration had dropped below the threshold. After weathring this for a few weeks I went for a blood test and got a script for Verapamil to get me through until I could figure out what was happenning. The good thing is that going back onto Verap at 480mg/day stopped the beast almost in his tracks and I have been pf now for 8 days. The interesting thing is that I got the test results today and the 25 Hydroxy Vitamin D level is showing up at a level >375 nmol/L against a New Zealand optimal level of between 50 and 150 nmol/L. My magnesium level is also showing at 1.01mmol/L against a recomended max of 1.0 mmol/L.

Comments are welcomed.
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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1331 - Mar 12th, 2013 at 12:44am
 
Hey Wayne,

Thanks for the update.  The normal reference range for 25(OH)D here in the US and most other Nations is 30 to 100 ng/mL, (75 to 250 nmol/L), so your 25(OH)D serum concentration at 375 nmol/L is higher than normal and above that where most CH'ers go pain free.  The target 25(OH)D serum concentration is 85 ng/mL, (202.5 nmol/L).  Clearly your 25(OH)D serum concentration wasn't the problem.

Your 25(OH)D levels will drop rapidly from 375 nmol/L just by stopping vitamin D3 intake for a few weeks.

The serum concentration of 25(OH)D is just a biological marker...  We think the important vitamin D3 metabolite responsible for preventing cluster headache is 1,25(OH)2D3, calcitriol.  The metabolism of 25(OH)D to calcitriol at the cellular level requires vitamin A at the required dietary allowance (RDA)...

I recall your post about moving from from Christchurch to Auckland and the return of your cluster headaches...  I'm not sure if the move had anything to do with the recurrence  of your cluster headaches...

That said, if you've been taking vitamin A, it's more likely a change in your metabolism due to a change in diet, a change in the supplements or some other related environmental factor that's responsible for the recurrence of your cluster headaches. 

A low pH is the most frequent culprit.  Cutting out gluten, sugars and cutting back on red meat may help.  The GOMBS diet is a good idea.  Eating a handful of walnuts and almonds a day is a good start.

Take care and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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Shakey
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1332 - Mar 13th, 2013 at 4:46pm
 
Hi!

Here's my experience with the regimen so far. I've already consulted batch via pm at the start.

I am on a prolonged cycle from mid December 2012. The usual cycle for me lasts around 4 weeks and comes in once, last three years twice, per year. I use 02 at home with great success and imitrex at work when redbull or coffee doesn't work. Most of my attacks occur in the evening, almost never during sleep and rarely in the morning or early in the day. 1 - max 2 per day.

So, I started the regimen 14 days ago with the nearly advised dosing strategy: 10000 d3, 600mg calcium, 200mg magnesium, 2400mg fish oil, 15mg zinc, 90 mcg K2 + a carrot + juice / at the largest meal Smiley

After a few days I started feeling generally little better, but I began getting attacks at 2pm at work; they weren't severe, since I could chew them off with red-bull and/or coffee, but I had to use two imitrex injections at work. At the same time evening attacks very reduced to 50%. it has been like this for 10 days.

I increased the dose to 15000 d3 + took a loading dose of 50000 yesterday and I finally got the lab tests in today after waiting for far too long. It's 20 mcg/l which is equivalent to ng/ml. At the time of the test, I was already within a few days of the regimen.

I plan on continuing the regimen with 15000/day and 50000/week and getting a lab test at the end of the month to see how the levels changed.

any other advice?

Thanks,
Jure



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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1333 - Mar 13th, 2013 at 7:38pm
 
Hey Jure,

Thanks for the detailed update.  I like the carrot and juice...  Good idea...  Add a handful of walnuts or almonds a day and you're have two of the other great natural nutrients that help prevent CH.

Bump your magnesium intake to 1000 mg/day split in half morning and eventing.

Take care and thanks again,

V/R, Batch
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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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chrisw
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1334 - Mar 13th, 2013 at 9:36pm
 
three weeks on the regimen ,  still no change, in fact things are getting worse.  I finally got a script for my D levels though and i will get them checked on friday..  My doc was looking at me like i was an idiot thought.  saying, there is some talk that vitamin D can affect migraines, but no evidence to suggest anything of the same for clusters.  I am going on no sleep, so I almost told her to shut the @#$% up.!!!!  I still have a little hope,  but its fading fast.   Sad
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Wayne
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1335 - Mar 13th, 2013 at 9:57pm
 
As always, thanks for the feedback Batch. I don't think that it was so much the move to Auckland that triggered it as much as it was the change in weather. I moved from a comparatively mild Christchurch straight into the hottest summer Auckland has had in years so I suspect that it was the temperature change that did me in.

I am definitely getting enough vitamin A, but will grab myself some walnuts and give it a go.

Cheers,

Wayne
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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1336 - Mar 14th, 2013 at 11:05am
 
Hey Wayne,

You may be on to something with the increased ambient temperatures associated with your move from Christchurch to Auckland. 

It's just a guess at this point, and this is way over my head...  but temperatures can effect the enzymatic activity of 25(OH)D-1α-hydroxylase, (CYP27B1), the enzyme responsible for hydroxylating (metabolizing) 25(OH)D into 1,25(OH)2D3, (calcitriol), the active hormonal vitamin D3 metabolite.  In short, higher skin temperatures could result in less 1,25(OH)2D3 being produced.

The other likely possibility is your move has exposed you to a new class of allergens (virus, bacteria, mold spores and pollen), that flourish at higher ambient temperatures and this is causing your immune system's T Cells to consume 1,25(OH)2D3 at higher rates leaving less of this active hormone to act as a CH preventative.

This is a long shot... but adding a little more zinc may help as zinc is essential in the vitamin D receptor binding activity along with vitamin A (retinol).  Slurping down a half dozen oysters on the half-shell should provide more than sufficient zinc to test this theory...

Take care,

V/R, Batch
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« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2013 at 3:05am by Batch »  

You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Chuh
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1337 - Mar 14th, 2013 at 11:35am
 
Wiki can be so convenient sometimes. Here's a link to trigeminal nerve distribution and function:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigeminal_nerve#Sensory_pathways

If you look at sensory branch commentary, central anatomy and pain sensation (towards the bottom) it should answer some of your questions regarding temperature, pressure, smell etc.

There is also a link towards the bottom of the page which displays the fine branches of the secondary nerves. In other words, it clearly shows where the so called "beast" likes to hang out.

Hope you find this useful...


Peace Of Mind
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Guiseppi
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1338 - Mar 14th, 2013 at 3:18pm
 
Thanks Chuh, people have posted a pic of that evil nerve a few times on the board. Gives you a much better understanding of why people have teeth pulled, get glasses, do sinus surgery....all the little links to that damned nerve! Wink

Joe
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9thNerve
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1339 - Mar 14th, 2013 at 4:05pm
 
Hard to believe how one tiny little nerve can cause such havoc in our heads??

Mine is the 9th cranial nerve its got all my neurologists scratching theirs . Fortunately, I am , at least right now (after battling this for 3 years), beginning to find solutions to the 4 different types of head pains I have.

I believe the D3, Zonegren and who knows if I have cycled out, have benefited the Cluster headache.
Just starting Baclofen that I hope will help with the nerve pain as tegretol,gabapentin,etc not tolerated with severe side effects.

Anyway, its challenging.
I appreciate this website for all its support!
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Mike NZ
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1340 - Mar 15th, 2013 at 2:59am
 
Wayne wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 9:57pm:
As always, thanks for the feedback Batch. I don't think that it was so much the move to Auckland that triggered it as much as it was the change in weather. I moved from a comparatively mild Christchurch straight into the hottest summer Auckland has had in years so I suspect that it was the temperature change that did me in.


It certainly has been a pretty hot and dry summer here in Auckland. We've just had a drought declared for the entire North Island, so it's time to practice rain dances.

However I've escaped any sign of CH and my migraines have now dropped off to around once a month or so, so the heat hasn't affected my headaches. Since I work during the week in Wellington (500km / 300 miles south) I get to experience a temperature change of about 4C (8F) every 3.5 days.
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Chuh
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1341 - Mar 17th, 2013 at 9:45pm
 
This link for those who care to read a good explanation of the pros and cons of vitamin D supplementation:

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

FYI, I am not an MD, PhD, registered dietitian, or pharmacologist.
What I am is a 15 yr CH sufferer who had to give up his work towards a PhD in exercise physiology/human performance due to the debilitating nature of our condition.

Batch's original post on this subject was very inspirational to me. But, I think we all need to look around the woods before we get tied down to one tree.

As I mentioned to Batch in a PM, I intuitively came to some conclusions, and am working diligently toward formulating and confirming proofs that will benefit us all.

We aren't supposed to give medical advice at the risk of practicing without a licence so I'll just say this; I plan to be very careful about what goes in and out of me in the future.

I also don't want to treat the symptoms, painful as they are, if I know I can remedy the condition.


Peace Of Mind
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1342 - Mar 18th, 2013 at 1:47am
 
Chuh wrote on Mar 17th, 2013 at 9:45pm:
This link for those who care to read a good explanation of the pros and cons of vitamin D supplementation:

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

FYI, I am not an MD, PhD, registered dietitian, or pharmacologist.
What I am is a 15 yr CH sufferer who had to give up his work towards a PhD in exercise physiology/human performance due to the debilitating nature of our condition.

Batch's original post on this subject was very inspirational to me. But, I think we all need to look around the woods before we get tied down to one tree.

As I mentioned to Batch in a PM, I intuitively came to some conclusions, and am working diligently toward formulating and confirming proofs that will benefit us all.

We aren't supposed to give medical advice at the risk of practicing without a licence so I'll just say this; I plan to be very careful about what goes in and out of me in the future.

I also don't want to treat the symptoms, painful as they are, if I know I can remedy the condition.


Peace Of Mind


Lots of the informations are not based on real science, but are old myths.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1343 - Mar 18th, 2013 at 7:52pm
 
Hi again,

I got my lab test results today for 25(OH)D and some other tests. here are the results;
-----------------------------------------------
25(OH)D                    = 11,5 ng/ml   (25-80)
Ca                             = 10,3 mg/dl   (8,6-10,0)
Mg                            = 2,15 mg/dl   (1,58-2,55)
Zn                             = ?? - still waiting
thyroid stimulant (TSH) = 1,72 uIU/ml (0,27-4,2)
Vitamin B12                = 662 pg/ml    (191-663)
Folic acid                    = 12,3 ng/ml   (4,6-18,7)
------------------------------------------------

I want to start this regimen as soon as possible but I can't find a vitamin D3 form which contains 5000 IU in my country.
Tablet forms has a maximum of 1000 IU per tablet.
Oral drop forms has a minimum of 50000 IU per drop(15 ml).
Both has active ingredient of cholecalciferol.

Should I take;
10 tablets!! a day or
1 oral drop each 5 days?

please advise,
Jenga
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« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2013 at 8:40pm by jenga »  
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Batch
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1344 - Mar 19th, 2013 at 10:37am
 
Hey Jenga,

Thanks for the post.  Please see my PM to you.

Take care,

V/R, Batch

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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1345 - Mar 20th, 2013 at 5:03pm
 
2 years ago my doctor put me on 1000 mg D3 then 8 months later he upped it to 2000 mg a day well recently he tested me again and 0 Vitamin D showed up on my tests. I upped it to 10,000 because of this site and I will be tested again on April 4th I will post the results as soon as I get them.
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1346 - Mar 20th, 2013 at 7:06pm
 
Hey Markmitch,

Good move bumping your vitamin D3 intake to 10,000 IU/day.  Be sure to take the cofactors along with the vitamin D3 and to take it with the largest meal of the day...

Regarding your doctor...  It's unfortunate but too many physicians are either too conservative or sadly lacking in experience treating a vitamin D3 deficiency.

You wouldn't be the first cluster headache sufferer who had to provide continuing medical education to his or her doctor...

Take care, hang in there and please keep us posted.

V/R, Batch
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You love lots of things if you live around them. But there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, that’s as lovely as a great airplane. If it's a beautiful fighter, your heart will be ever there
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1347 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 3:06pm
 
Hi Batch!   Hope you are well!   Is krill oil an acceptable substitute for the fish oil? (I'm guessing it is)  I'm still getting sick to my stomach from the fish burps and am finding the krill doesn't cause the same problem. 

Thanks for all you do for us around here. 

Jeannie
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1348 - Mar 26th, 2013 at 6:21pm
 
Hey Everyone in Clusterville!!
Just an update and i'm going on 147 days CH free on the regimen and it has changed my life Pete!
After about 38 years of chronic CH I never thought this could happen and am so happy and so very proud of Pete Batch for his tireless work on the regimen and helping so many CHers become pain free or helped by the regimen.
WHAT A BLESSING!!.... Wink
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Gaining knowledge and obtaining an education about cluster headaches is the key to success to shutting down the beast. The Vitamin D3 Anti inflammatory Regimen is one of the best treatments ever!
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Re: 123 Days PF And I Think I know Why
Reply #1349 - Mar 27th, 2013 at 8:46am
 
that is soo awesome.  what a lifechanger!!!!
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