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an herbal option that works (Read 10204 times)
Hoppy
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #25 - Jun 9th, 2013 at 11:27pm
 
Hi Tony,
Just been reading up on Licorice Root, ( Liquorice ) i eat a couple
of pieces most nights. I remember when i was a kid i use to buy
a stick of natural Licorice root from the grocery store on my way
to school and chew on it throughout the day, "YUM". So thanks
for that brought back lots of fond memories. I just did'nt put
two and two together when reading your post umm. Anyway
back to Licorice Root, very interesting reading it seems to be
able to cure anything from cancer to the common cold. I'm beginning to wonder why we have so many drugs on the market, ha $$$. So once again thanks.                               
Hoppy.
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Tony Only
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #26 - Jun 9th, 2013 at 11:48pm
 
Liquorice and Liquorice root (herb) are usually quite a lot different. The use of herb and extract has been invented especially to use for cluster headaches. There is a lot of discussion about it on the Clusterbusters message board, valuable posts by Les Genser - I recommend everyone checking them out if planning to use this protocol. For me these herbs work like magic.

My doctors warned me about how dangerous these herbs can be. That's a huge load of BS (in my opinion) especially if compared to medications we are usually prescribed.
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Hoppy
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LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE


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Perth WA
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #27 - Jun 10th, 2013 at 3:24am
 
Just been checking up on Licorice Root fluid extract, alcohol and
alcohol free, and Licorice Root 450mg capsules, extract is absorbed faster than tablets or capsules, but the daily amount
is similar. I'ts recommended you only take for 4-6 weeks then
have a break. My point is if your CH episode lasts more than
4-6 weeks, mine normaly go on for 3 months, Spring, and Fall.
Then what do you do risk more health problems. Smiley
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Tony Only
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #28 - Jun 10th, 2013 at 4:19am
 
Well, I started using it when chronic so my cycle was neverending. Nowadays I use it all year round, but to terminate my shadows only, that's usually a once or twice a week. I have no personal experience of terminating cycle with it. 

I think it is just an awesome addition to have in self-treatment arsenal. But one needs to read the protocol and understand it does not go well with most of the CH drugs. That being said, health-wise I have had no problems with it whatsoever compared to 50+ prescriptives I have been on. Ever since I got out of that prescriptive hell I am learning more and more to listen to my body - all I have received from this protocol are benefits, not just CH preventing but overall. I could also use a mood lift I got as a "side product".

Because I was told it is dangerous herb I also monitored my BP at home when starting and was over cautious. In the beginning it raised my BP slightly and momentarily but the effect was way less than for an example Verapamil lowering. Now I think my body has got used to it since it has no effect on my BP and my dosage is bigger than it was in the beginning.

The protocol covers the extract so can't really say anything about tablets. I think the tincture needs to have alcohol in it, the one without alcohol probably does not work (in CH treatment). It is also important to find the binomial name in the product, "Glycyrrhiza glabra" and avoid DGL (Deglycyrrhizinated licorice) since that won't work in CH either.
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« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2013 at 4:27am by Tony Only »  

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idorko
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #29 - Jun 15th, 2013 at 9:58pm
 
if you're using it for it's SSRI quality, I don't know why you wouldn't just get a script for Prozac (or an SSRI that works for you). They'll likely build up in your system quicker or in the same amount of time and you know exactly what the dose is, as opposed to variance which can occur with herbs.
If you're doing this because you don't have health insurance and perscriptions for SSRIs are too expensive, try Saint John's Wort which in 29 clinical trials showed the efficacy to be almost equal to standard SSRIs.
That said, because of a lack of regulation with supplements, you would need to confirm it actually contains St. John's Wort before taking it.
It is also good to keep in mind that SSRIs do not work instanteously and require weeks, if not months, to build up in your system.
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Hoppy
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #30 - Jun 15th, 2013 at 11:27pm
 
Prozac is a perscription only drug to treat depression.
Saint John's Wort is an OTC supplement to treat mild anxiety.
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Tony Only
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #31 - Jun 16th, 2013 at 12:14pm
 
I have used Liquorice Root very effectively to treat my cluster headaches. The better mood was just a nice extra. If I mood like to treat my mood with anything else than happy life, I would definitively look into herbs (St.John's Wort, Melissa balm, Arctic root etc.) and not the pharmaceuticals.

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idorko
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #32 - Jun 16th, 2013 at 4:45pm
 
Hoppy wrote on Jun 15th, 2013 at 11:27pm:
Prozac is a perscription only drug to treat depression.
Saint John's Wort is an OTC supplement to treat mild anxiety.

notice I said if you were seeking the SSRI qualities of the root, both of which the above mentioned things do.

I would also encourage you not to cite the dailymail ever ever ever ever ever because it is a fucking joke journalistically.
You can just cite the Cochrane Review which studied the efficacy of Saint John's Wort as opposed to traditional SSRIs
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Hoppy
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LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE


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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #33 - Jun 16th, 2013 at 8:04pm
 
I have looked into the benifits of Saint John's Wort in the past.
Conclusion, a very dangerous herbal supplement if taken when
on other Med's. Now banned  in France,  UK now have big
warning sign's plastered on i'ts packageging.  Smiley




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idorko
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #34 - Jun 16th, 2013 at 8:26pm
 
Hoppy wrote on Jun 16th, 2013 at 8:04pm:
I have looked into the benifits of Saint John's Wort in the past.
Conclusion, a very dangerous herbal supplement if taken when
on other Med's. Now banned  in France,  UK now have big
warning sign's plastered on i'ts packageging.  Smiley





which is why it's banned. Natural supplements are very popular and if you have depression and wish to boost your mood, you'll likely try anything that works. Unfortently , it can cause sereotonin syndrome if you use a lot of it.
If you use it for a long time if can cause photosensitivity.
Which is why if you're not a medical professional or you aren't well versed in medicine, it is best to stick to what your doctor gives you.

and as a general rule: if it doesn't have solid science of proven efficacy, don't use it.

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Hoppy
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LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE


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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #35 - Jun 16th, 2013 at 11:24pm
 




G'day iDorko,
You wrote, try Saint John's Wort which in 29 clinical trials
" Cochrane Review" showed the efficacy to be "Almost Equal "
to standard SSRIs. I've read other trials found it only to be
effective in treatment for mild non-melancholic depression.
Not in people who have major depression. I'm wondering
as you pointed out. I'ts side effects and adverse effects,
why you would suggest try it.?  Smiley

Hoppy.







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« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2013 at 11:28pm by Hoppy »  
 
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idorko
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #36 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 8:08am
 
Hoppy wrote on Jun 16th, 2013 at 11:24pm:
G'day iDorko,
You wrote, try Saint John's Wort which in 29 clinical trials
" Cochrane Review" showed the efficacy to be "Almost Equal "
to standard SSRIs. I've read other trials found it only to be
effective in treatment for mild non-melancholic depression.
Not in people who have major depression. I'm wondering
as you pointed out. I'ts side effects and adverse effects,
why you would suggest try it.?  Smiley

Hoppy.








I'm not suggesting you try it over actual drugs. I'm suggesting that if you're intent with this licorice root treatment is to use it for it's SSRI qualities, you may as well use SJW, which has solid science behind it, as opposed to this, which to my knowledge, does not.
That said, SJW is not the magical cure for everything, as it really only works for minor to moderate depressive disorders and when taken over the long term as serious side effects if taken in large doses.
I'm not saying that you should use this, in fact, I'm saying the opposite: see a doctor. I'm saying that if you're into the herbal options, don't use this licorice root, use something with solid science to back itup for proven SSRI qualities.
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Tony Only
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #37 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 3:19pm
 
Just as a personal opinion, people should not just go and use herbs. Herbs do not work with pharmaceuticals. But if someone is not on prescription medicine, then I think herbs are great option. But I would not advice to ask doctors about these, ask a herbalist.

Liquorice root works like magic in my CH, dozens of prescriptives did not. It just was a long, hard walk to get there (get rid of the pharma) to be able to use it.
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Hoppy
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LAUGHTER IS THE BEST MEDICINE


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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #38 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 4:05pm
 
Whow! I'm glad we got that "Herb" all cleared up, looks like
were on the same page now. Smiley
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idorko
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #39 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 8:25am
 
asking an herbalist is probably not the best idea as they can't be objective about what they're selling.
Not to say that doctors can't either, but with requirments of evidence and objectivity thorughout medical school, they're probably better prepared.
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Tony Only
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Re: an herbal option that works
Reply #40 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 5:56pm
 
Herbalist does not equal selling something. As a matter of fact, the three herbalists I have consulted none tried to sell me anything, they just shared their knowledge. The shopowners who sell herbs are not all herbalists. But the people who specialize in herbs because of their own interests seem to know about them a lot more than doctors about medicine, most often through own experience. I have seen dozens of doctors and a vast majority completely clueless concerning the undesired impact or side effects certain prescriptives can have on CH. Common sense on these different paths gets one far.

And reading the whole liquorice root protocol. The herb itself would be a great treatment choice for us if the protocol is understood completely; it's not a quick fix - "gimme some liquorice root, any liquorice root and I'll be fine and dandy". I will quote it here:

If herbal medicine gets a bad rap, it is not and has never been the fault of the plants. It is the fault of the people. It would be out of place here to go into a lengthy diatribe, but even when well meaning somewhat enlightened physicians like Andrew Weil prescribe herbs they do it wrong, recommending capsules and 'extracts' of powdered herbs to be taken like drugs. Any herbalist worth the dirt on his/her knees knows powdered herbs lose their potency quickly and are frequently made from inferior raw material, and the principle behind 'extracts' is just plain wrong. Would you powder a cheeseburger and wait six months to eat it? Herbs are essentially foods that the body uses to heal itself, not drugs which force processes. That is just one example. People come to believe herbs don't work because products do exist which honestly are little more than fads and fraudulent rip offs, they get bad advice from crappy magazine articles written by presumably well meaning but ignorant authors, or a variety of other possibilities which turn them off to herbal medicine despite the record of thousands of years of accumulated knowledge and use and literally billions of successful case histories. Fortunately, alternatives exist.
     If you are fortunate enough to live in an area with access to a practicing local herbalist avail yourself of their services. There is really no substitute for good handmade herbal medicines made with loving care from the best quality plant material. I confess to a prejudice against most commercially made tinctures. I am used to controlling the entire process from harvesting or selecting raw materials to finished product. The difference between crafted small batch tinctures and commercial products is like the distinction between a fine French vintage wine and anything with a screw cap. That having been said, there are extremely ethical small firms operated by (mostly) families of knowledgeable, highly skilled herbalists who make outstanding preparations. All of them, I assume, do business on the Internet. If they are worthy of the name, they should be able and willing to answer any questions as to how their products are prepared and what goes into them. Curiously enough, unlike wines you can tell nothing about the quality of a tincture based on price. Retail establishments will sell poor quality mass produced stuff at about $20 for a two ounce bottle, and that price is about the same as that charged by the better makers. I suppose I could have made this point more succinctly by simply advising readers to buy the best product they can find, but it is important to understand what I mean by that statement.
     One further note; as a rule, always use products produced from whole plant source material, not extracts. Whole herbs have evolved over millions of years in complex chemical interactions which balance the excesses of individual components, and thinking that we are smarter than nature is usually delusional.
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« Last Edit: Jun 18th, 2013 at 6:04pm by Tony Only »  

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