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jamsie c.
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Jan 26th, 2011 at 4:37pm
 
Hi everyone,I`m jamsie c.been a ch for about 12 years but this is my worst year so far. Started cluster on Nov 6 last year,and still killing me today despite almost every drug known to the Neurology dept at my local Hosp.I`m having about 4 or 5 attacks a day now down from 7 in december and early jan.Spent xmas and new year in hosp morphined off my tits, but better than the total despair of being at home in pain.Back later,starting the mad dance now!
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Reply #1 - Jan 26th, 2011 at 4:50pm
 
What meds have you tried, specifically, and for how long and at what dosages?
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"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
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Guiseppi
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Re: message board
Reply #2 - Jan 26th, 2011 at 6:00pm
 
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Take a minute and read this link. Oxygen therapy has almost eliminated my use of imitrex. I abort my attacks in about 6-8 minutes, beats the old 90 minute rides I used to take. Many on this board are having the same success rate. Read the link, as when you ask a doc for 02 they're likely to screw it up, give you nasal canulas, a re breather mask, too low of a flow rate, all are guarantees for failure!

You're hurting way too much, let's see if we can stop that.

Joe
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"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.
 
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bejeeber
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Re: message board
Reply #3 - Jan 26th, 2011 at 6:20pm
 
Guiseppi wrote on Jan 26th, 2011 at 6:00pm:
You're hurting way too much, let's see if we can stop that.

Joe


What Joe said!! Lots of us  have gone through every drug known to the neurology dept. to little or no avail, only to come here and finally find some relief with stuff like the O2 that Joe suggests.

Welcome! I too am hoping this could mark the beginning of a new, improved chapter for you.

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CH according to Bejeeber:

Strictly relying on doctors for CH treatment is often a prescription that will keep you in a whole lot of PAIN. Doctors are WAY behind in many respects, and they are usually completely unaware of the benefits of high flow 100% O2.

There are lots of effective treatments documented at this site. Take matters into your own hands, learn as much as you can here and at clusterbusters.com, put it into practice, then tell this CH beast Jeebs said hello right before you bash him so hard with a swift uppercut knockout punch that his stupid horns go flinging right off.
bejeeber bejeeber Enter your address line 1 here  
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jamsie c.
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Reply #4 - Jan 27th, 2011 at 7:49am
 
Thanks for taking notice.when I was first diagnosed, Iwas prescribed,240mg verapamil daily (now 360mg),dihydrocodeine 30mg (2x4 a day)tramadol 50mg(1x4 a day)arthrotec (50mg 1x3 aday) and sumatriptam inject at onset of attack. If that lot didnt work its off to a&e for i.v. morphine and O2.After being in hosp cos the sumatriptan stopped working I now have lithium(300mg)a day and Oramorph at home. No O2 at home cos Im a smoker.
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Reply #5 - Jan 27th, 2011 at 7:53am
 
Quote:
No O2 at home cos Im a smoker.

Don't let them unload this bullshit on you. Smoke outside or put your O2 rig outside, under cover. Just NEVER smoke while the O2 is running.

O2 should be the FIRST line of defense as your abortive.
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"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so."  --Ayn Rand
 
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wimsey1
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Reply #6 - Jan 27th, 2011 at 7:57am
 
Smoke outside...get O2. That's what I, and others here, do. As to the meds...I know it seems futile but please notice the levels you describe for both verapamil and lithium are a bit low. Higher than off lable use, but low for us. I think there is room for twice as much in both Rxs. We are an unusually stubborn lot and tend to find effective ranges much, much higher than would others. True for O2 as well. Most initially prescribe low flow rates whereas we tend to need 25lpm or higher. Just some things to discuss with your doc. Blessings. lance
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Bob Johnson
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Re: message board
Reply #7 - Jan 27th, 2011 at 8:17am
 
Your present docs seem to be, per your list of meds, heavy on pain meds--generally, the very last thing to use regularly for CH.

Do you have access to a headache specialist? Most general neurologists lack training/experience in dealing with complex headache disorders.
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LOCATING HEADACHE SPECIALIST

1. Search the OUCH site (button on left) for a list of recommended M.D.s.

2. Yellow Pages phone book: look for "Headache Clinics" in the M.D. section and look under "neurologist" where some docs will list speciality areas of practice.

3.  Call your hospital/medical center. They often have an office to assist in finding a physician. You may have to ask for the social worker/patient advocate.

4. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register On-line screen to find a physician.

5. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register Look for "Physician Finder" search box. They will send a list of M.D.s for your state.I suggest using this source for several reasons: first, we have read several messages from people who, even seeing neurologists, are unhappy with the quality of care and ATTITUDES they have encountered; second, the clinical director of the Jefferson (Philadelphia) Headache Clinic said, in late 1999, that upwards of 40%+ of U.S. doctors have poor training in treating headache and/or hold attitudes about headache ("hysterical female disorder") which block them from sympathetic and effective work with the patient; third, it's necessary to find a doctor who has experience, skill, and a set of attitudes which give hope of success. This is the best method I know of to find such a physician.

6. Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register NEW certification program for "Headache Medicine" by the United Council for Neurologic Subspecialties, an independent, non-profit, professional medical organization.
        Since this is a new program, the initial listing is limited and so it should be checked each time you have an interest in locating a headache doctor.
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Re. Verapamil dosing. Share following with your docs.

Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   

Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.


    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).

=======================================
SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented.
===
When the usual treatments for CH don't work, or work inconsistently, it's time to reexamine the diagnosis. Possible to have disorders which mimic CH but which are quite different and serious. Suggest you print out he following group of messages and ask your doc to consider a fresh approach and/or a strong reason for working with a headache specialist, in any case.

See:  Medications,  Treatments,  Therapies › Important Topics >Cluster-LIKE headache




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« Last Edit: Jan 27th, 2011 at 8:18am by Bob Johnson »  

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jamsie c.
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Reply #8 - Jan 27th, 2011 at 8:21am
 
thanks for the advice guys,it helps alot, as here in the U.K its hard to find a doc who`s heard of ch, which makes you feel very alone.When Ihave to call an ambulance to get to hosp,the crew will arrive and Im doing the funky twostep inthe kitchen, they all say sit still and calm down,when Isay I can't, they'll say come on its only a headache! it's a good job we have gun law here or I'd be doing life.anyway I've got the docs tomorrow,and try for O2 again.sorry Ihav'nt done a profile yet ,do that next.Probably put it in wrong place as yesterday was my 1st time on a computer.Once again thanks, I really mean it.

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Bob Johnson
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Re: message board
Reply #9 - Jan 27th, 2011 at 8:32am
 
Most important bit of data just appeared: you are in the U.K. So, contact your excellent support group and seek guidance on working within your health care system.

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===
This is a messy collection from several other messages, the core being: you have good local sources and rights to claim specialist care.

Message: "Dyno", Tenby, Wales, UK, Aug 9, '09:
[Bob-excludes Wales per Dyno]
looking at their website it looks like a better alternative  Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register

Why not ask to see the top man in the country - Dr. Manjit Matharu at UCL. Under Patient Choice - look at the link below - you have the right to choose who you see.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register.

and this - copied from the OUCH(UK) website

Quote:

You can ask your GP to refer you to one of our hospitals for treatment
Central to the government’s healthcare policy is that patients should be given the opportunity to be more involved in making decisions about their healthcare. If you and your GP agree that you need to be referred to see a specialist, then you have a choice of at least four local hospitals or clinics. Since May 2006, that choice has been extended. You can now also choose to go to any Foundation Trust in the country, including UCLH. Whether you’re from Cornwall or Camden, as a patient you now have the right to choose UCLH. You can ask your GP to refer you to one of our hospitals for treatment.

[Source: UCL website]
===============================

City of London Migraine Clinic [and other types]  Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!!  You need to Login or Register
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« Last Edit: Jan 27th, 2011 at 8:33am by Bob Johnson »  

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Batty
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Re: message board
Reply #10 - Jan 27th, 2011 at 8:36am
 
jamsie c. wrote on Jan 27th, 2011 at 8:21am:
thanks for the advice guys,it helps alot, as here in the U.K its hard to find a doc who`s heard of ch, which makes you feel very alone.When Ihave to call an ambulance to get to hosp,the crew will arrive and Im doing the funky twostep inthe kitchen, they all say sit still and calm down,when Isay I can't, they'll say come on its only a headache! it's a good job we have gun law here or I'd be doing life.anyway I've got the docs tomorrow,and try for O2 again.sorry Ihav'nt done a profile yet ,do that next.Probably put it in wrong place as yesterday was my 1st time on a computer.Once again thanks, I really mean it.



Hi Jamsie,
I think that just about sums up the ignorance we face with CH (and in the UK!)....And in my opinion, is THE single most scary part of being a sufferer....My Doc (No, I wont start here...) So I am going down the self-help route as far as O2 is concerned...I will put you in my 'buddy list' and will let you know as soon as I come up with links,addresses,costs, specifics etc.... Make sure you put 'UK' in your profile so we can get recognised on this great site and stick together! I have looked on our UK equivalent site and the attitude and terminology on there is, how can I put this, quite 'different'!

Cheers
Gary

 
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jamsie c.
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Re: better late than never,profile,jamsie c.
Reply #11 - Jan 27th, 2011 at 9:16am
 
I'm 42yrs old going on 80 at the moment,married to Tina (my best friend & saviour) for the last (best) 14yrs and have a beautiful 3yr old daughter Grace and a 112lb very large black lab/shepherd cross dog called Girvan who thinks he's human.We all live in West London,luckily for me about 400yds from West Middlesex Hospital.I have been a Head Chef for the last 20 some years and loved every day of it,until last week when I lost my job as I've been off sick since the beginning of nov 2010, with this cluster.I now very rarely leave the house apart from taking Grace to nursery & picking her up again. Thank the big man upstairs I found CH.com. I was starting to think I was alone in england.Looking forward to a day without pain. jamsie c.
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wimsey1
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Reply #12 - Jan 28th, 2011 at 7:20am
 
We are too, Jamsie, we are too. May your day come much sooner than later. Let us know how you make out. God bless. lance
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Guiseppi
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Re: message board
Reply #13 - Jan 28th, 2011 at 10:06am
 
We'll do anything we can to help you get to that day Jamsie....I HATE how much CH used to take away from my wife and girls...... Angry

Joe
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"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.
 
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