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Callico

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Something to think on
Jan 27^th, 2011 at 1:55pm

I'm not trying to start a firestorm here, just some food for thought. I don't expect to change any opinions, we each have them. I just saw this and wanted to share. I think my opinion is clear. If you disagree you don't have to answer to me and I bear you no ill will for it.

A worried woman went to her gynecologist and said: ‘Doctor, I have a serious problem and desperately need your help! My baby is not even one year old, and I’m pregnant again. I don’t want kids so close together.’

So the doctor said: ‘Ok and what do you want me to do?’

She said: ‘I want you to end my pregnancy, and I’m counting on your help with this.’

The doctor thought for a little, and after some silence he said to the lady: ‘I think I have a better solution for your problem. It’s less dangerous for you too.’ She smiled, thinking that the doctor was going to accept her request.

Then he continued: ‘You see, in order for you not to have to take care of 2 babies at the same time, let’s kill the one in your arms. This way, you could rest some before the other one is born. If we’re going to kill one of them, it doesn’t matter which one it is. There would be no risk for your body if you chose the one in your arms.’

The lady was horrified and said: ‘No doctor! How terrible! It’s a crime to kill a child!’

‘I agree’, the doctor replied. ‘But you seemed to be OK with it, so I thought maybe that was the best solution.’

The doctor smiled, realizing that he had made his point. He convinced the mom that There is no difference in killing a child that’s already been born and one that’s still in the womb. The crime is the same!
~ Author Unknown ~

Jerry

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Linda_Howell CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Do not feed the Moderators Posts: 11927 Santa Maria, Ca. Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #1 - Jan 27^th, 2011 at 2:25pm AMEN.
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wimsey1 CH.com Alumnus Offline I Love CH.com! Posts: 2457 MA Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #2 - Jan 28^th, 2011 at 7:42am Jerry, some day we will realize a nation that chooses to genocide its unborn is still a nation that genocides. What a leap between abortion for the health and welfare of the mother (very rare) and abortion on demand as birth control. Sad, and it makes me cry. lance
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catlind

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Re: Something to think on
Reply #3 - Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 9:44am

I personally am pro choice. I choose life. It's having the choice that I believe in; however, using abortion as a form of birth control is indeed something I can't accept, even the 'day after pill' seems hard to 'swallow' as it were.

But there are cases, and they are rare, where that choice should be available.

Is a child conceived of a rape one of those rare occasions? For some it is, for me it is not. My daughter was recently raped, and we only just learned this past 2 weeks that she is not pregnant, but if she had been, while the choice would have been hers to make, I would have counseled her to love that child for the pure potential he/she represented, the light and love soul that he/she would be - the infant does not bear the crimes of its' parents. Not in my opinion at the least.

The choice between life and death for any person is a choice that should remain up to that individual person, I have a living will, and DNR for specific circumstances; I'm able to speak my wishes - an unborn or infant child is not - as such, while the progenitors of the child should have the freedom of choice, it should be done so in such a way as to ensure it is for reasons of high value and life and death scenarios, and under intense mental and physical health counseling. If giving birth to a child would kill both mother and child, then what would one do if there was no choice? I do not seek to change any opinions, I am merely expressing my own.

I think, probably, this is one of those issues that is a very intimate, personal and individual issue. Each person has a different perspective on how to interpret the various meanings and double meanings of a subject such as this - one that runs to the core of life itself.

I choose life. But I have that choice.
Cat

ps - Jerry, that is an awesome story, and I've copied it to use with the young kids that tend to congregate around our house.

I think between telling them to use orange juice as contraception and that story, it may well strike home fully to them.

Yes Orange juice is a very very very good contraceptive - did you not know that? You drink a full 8 oz glass of OJ, not before sex, not during, not after, INSTEAD OF.

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« Last Edit: Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 9:47am by catlind »
Reason: to add a ps

A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart.

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Charlie

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Re: Something to think on
Reply #4 - Feb 2^nd, 2011 at 3:56pm

The thing about it is that before all the parades, books explaining its horrors...that inadvertently show better techniques and with graphics... now everybody knows it can be done. Partial birth abortions increase in places with serious anti-abortion laws.

I do appreciate the Catholic position though. I like its consistency.

This thing has wrecked politics for 40 years.

Charlie

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37-41withrestrictions CH.com Veteran Offline NOT SO PF AT THE MOMENT Posts: 124 Chester UK Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #5 - Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 11:15am I am a pro life believer and also believe in choice, I recently have worked a case with a vulnerable adolescent who was pregnant by a paternal grandfather, as a professional I have questioned with every fibre in my being and I'm afraid I had to agree with the termination, Sometimes it's tough being non judgemental
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Racer1_NC

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Re: Something to think on
Reply #6 - Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 11:37am

37-41withrestrictions wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 11:15am:

I am a pro life believer and also believe in choice, I recently have worked a case with a vulnerable adolescent who was pregnant by a paternal grandfather, as a professional I have questioned with every fibre in my being and I'm afraid I had to agree with the termination,
Sometimes it's tough being non judgemental

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37-41withrestrictions CH.com Veteran Offline NOT SO PF AT THE MOMENT Posts: 124 Chester UK Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #7 - Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 12:46pm Too true Racer1_NC there are some very sick very bad people out there
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Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #8 - Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 12:51pm Wow...
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Callico

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Re: Something to think on
Reply #9 - Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 1:26pm

Spot on, Bill.

Suzie, I understand the spot you were in there. By no means do I ever intend to be judgmental. That is not my place, nor my right. My responsibility is to love and to try to persuade. If I am judging I don't have time to be loving. That does not mean I accept wrong doing (of any sort), but I understand I am not the judge of that person, nor that action. I leave that up to One who has a MUCH higher pay-grade than I.

Jerry

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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of dung by the clean end." Texas A&M Student (unknown)

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37-41withrestrictions

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Re: Something to think on
Reply #10 - Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 2:44pm

Callico wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 1:26pm:

Spot on, Bill.

Suzie, I understand the spot you were in there. By no means do I ever intend to be judgmental. That is not my place, nor my right. My responsibility is to love and to try to persuade. If I am judging I don't have time to be loving. That does not mean I accept wrong doing (of any sort), but I understand I am not the judge of that person, nor that action. I leave that up to One who has a MUCH higher pay-grade than I.

Jerry

Jerry
I didn't mean to make out you were judgemental, I meant in my job I have to be non judgemental and at times is really hard when all you want to do is rip someones head off ( metaphorically speaking that is)
Sue

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If you see something you want.. reach out and grab it with both hands.....just watch out you dont get a smack in the chops for grabbing the wrong thing!!!

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Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #11 - Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 4:45pm metaphorically speaking Metaphorically speaking nothing...I'd hold him down while you ripped his head off. Joe
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Callico

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Re: Something to think on
Reply #12 - Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 5:02pm

Suzie, I wasn't aiming that at you. You didn't portray it as calling me judgmental. I was referring to it generically as many times those of us who are pro-life and have strong views about it are considered to be judgmental. Of course, some are, but they are just the fringe and get the most attention. That is as wrong as the fringe of the pro-choice crowd that is not representative of the vast majority of those who consider themselves pro-choice.

There is a place for that grandfather you wrote about. It is not my place to send him there, but unless there is a major change that is where he is headed. Frankly, I'll be sorry if that is the case, albeit deserved. I sorrow for the young lady who will never know the real joy of what love is without the taint of what was done to her.

Jerry

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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of dung by the clean end." Texas A&M Student (unknown)

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Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #13 - Feb 3^rd, 2011 at 11:36pm When only those rich enough to send family members on trips to Europe for a few months on "vacation," things weren't so bad. Of course when it became widely available to all those "other" people, the lid was blown off and it became the horror that we know of today. Some else to consider. Charlie
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wimsey1

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Re: Something to think on
Reply #14 - Feb 4^th, 2011 at 7:52am

Jerry, I agree, there is a place for that man and there will be a day of reckoning...maybe even sooner than later if our justice system works at all.

And as I said previously, I do think there are exceptional instances when out of the ordinary measures are necessary. But, we as a people love the exception, and tend to make the exception the rule. Instead, we need to make a rule for the exception, and treat the overwhelming number of cases as the norm.

So...a rule for the young lady raped by her grandfather. And then the courage to face the fact that the overwhelming number of abortions are for personal convenience and birth control. But, something is equally wrong in our society when an entire high school class has a number of young ladies in it who are trying to get pregnant as a kind of race to the finish.

In order for someone to have a choice, they first need a moral basis (or for the secularists a rational basis) against which to choose. Both could reach the same conclusion: the taking of human life (even in its potential/foetal phase) should not be treated casually or as a matter of personal convenience. This, I think, is the true elephant in the room, not the exceptional which we all agree is horrendous. Blessings. lance

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catlind CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Surf's Up! Posts: 4536 Weaverville NC Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #15 - Feb 4^th, 2011 at 8:01am Very well stated lance, and I think gets to the true heart of the dissension between the camps. Cat
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Callico

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Re: Something to think on
Reply #16 - Feb 4^th, 2011 at 9:52am

If I am a created being, created in the image of God, I have an accountability and a moral basis. If I am just a cosmic accident that evolved from some primordial swamp there is no accountability and therefore no moral basis. The whole argument comes back to this point at some time or another. For life to have value it must have a base to value it on.

JMHO
Jerry

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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of dung by the clean end." Texas A&M Student (unknown)

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LadyLuv CH.com Alumnus Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 1495 Champaign, IL Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #17 - Feb 4^th, 2011 at 10:33am I AM PRO CHOICE... WITH ONE MINOR DIFFERENCE ... i FEEL THAT WE ALL SHOULD HAVE A CHOICE; BUT THAT CHOICE IS RATHER OR NOT TO HAVE SEX.. ONCE YOU DO THE HORIZONTAL BOOGALOO.....YOU'VE MADE YOUR CHOICE... ANY CHOICE AFTER THAT IS CALLED "MURDER" LadyLuv
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catlind CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Surf's Up! Posts: 4536 Weaverville NC Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #18 - Feb 4^th, 2011 at 11:26am I'll toast a glass of OJ to that one Luv Cat
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Guiseppi CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011 Posts: 12063 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #19 - Feb 4^th, 2011 at 2:18pm The horizontal Boogaloo ...I do so luv ya Ruthey!!! Joe
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wimsey1

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Re: Something to think on
Reply #20 - Feb 8^th, 2011 at 7:11am

LadyLuv wrote on Feb 4^th, 2011 at 10:33am:

I AM PRO CHOICE... WITH ONE MINOR DIFFERENCE ... i FEEL THAT WE ALL SHOULD HAVE A CHOICE; BUT THAT CHOICE IS RATHER OR NOT TO HAVE SEX.. ONCE YOU DO THE HORIZONTAL BOOGALOO.....YOU'VE MADE YOUR CHOICE...

ANY CHOICE AFTER THAT IS CALLED "MURDER"LadyLuv

And with that, we get to the heart of the true matter: it's about sex, or to be more precise, it's about the right to choose any behavior I choose while pretending there is no consequence to others. The moral fabric of our society is tearing along this line: whether or not individual actions have any social consequence for which I am accountable. To pretend sex is a morally neutral act without social implication flies not only in the face of history but also in the vast compilation of current evidence to the contrary. As an aside, a couple of years ago the UN sponsored study on AIDS prevention in Africa discovered those nations most successful in preventing AIDS had also implemented a national abstinence/chastity program. It was never published in the US even though we continue to have an epidemic of STD's among our high school teenage girls. Last CDC stat I saw was 1 in 4. Can you imagine that? Are we then to say this is strictly a private matter with no social consequence? Blessings. lance

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Charlie CH.com Alumnus Offline Happy to be here Posts: 18971 Jamestown, NY Gender:	Re: Something to think on Reply #21 - Feb 8^th, 2011 at 7:47pm Sad to say, now, rather than work on something that Congress should deal with, their screeching begins again. This thing has wrecked politics. Charlie
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