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Visit to doctor today (Read 566 times)
NeurologicHarpoon
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Salem, OR
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Visit to doctor today
Feb 25th, 2011 at 5:21pm
 
Finally saw my PCP after 3 weeks of waiting. He diagnosed me with clusters and started me on a small schedule of preventative and abortive care and then follow up in 4 weeks:
Verapamil, once a day as preventative and then
Imitrex injections once or twice a day to see if they abort the attack.

well that's what was discussed. I recieved from the pharmacy just now:
Verapamil 120mg (tablet) 1x/day
Sumatriptan 100mg (Tablet) 1-2x/24hrs  Shocked Shocked Not sure why I got tablets.....how are they gonna help? What if I get a Kip 8 or 9 in the middle of work tomorrow and I need to abort, so I take the Suma tab and then I wait 30-40 mins for the pill just to digest and then BAM my headache is gone and the pill had no effect?

Should I just take one Suma today when my next big one hits and just pray the headache lasts long enough to judge if the pill has an effect?

Or should I take the pill 30 mins before I think an attack will hit? Mine are pretty cyclic but I still get god-awful ones that hit out of the blue and I just have this feeling that I'll pop this Suma a be in a corner in tears waiting and waiting for it to work and it just wont.

I already tried calling the doctor's office back, but I got put on hold for over 15 mins and I had other errands I had to get to. Any and all advice would be awesome

Thanks folks.
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« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2011 at 5:22pm by NeurologicHarpoon »  
 
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Guiseppi
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San Diego to Florida 05-16-2011


Posts: 12063
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA USA
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Re: Visit to doctor today
Reply #1 - Feb 25th, 2011 at 7:16pm
 
The verapamil dose is low, but some people do get relief at lower doseages. It's something they raise slowly while the doc monitors your bp to make sure you tolerate the higher doses. And 2 reminders. The verapamil can take 10-14 days to really kick in as a prevent. Also, while on the verapamil, go easy on the energy drinks as taurine and verapamil don't mix and can cause serious heart issues.

The injections are great, they've never failed me. As to the pills, for most CH'ers a waste of time as by the time you start to absorb them the attack is too well established.

No luck on oxygen?

Joe
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"Somebody had to say it" is usually a piss poor excuse to be mean.
 
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Bob Johnson
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Kennett Square, PA (USA)
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Re: Visit to doctor today
Reply #2 - Feb 25th, 2011 at 7:26pm
 
I hate to beat on your doc--but this start is not coinsistent with the common used treatment plans.
It's just waste of time and needless pain to have to convince him to make major changes if you have the option of getting with a headache specialist.

Re. Pill. It's the least effective form for CH; just too slow acting. Injection is best, fastest; nasal spray second choice but takes good technique and timing to be effective (referring to Suma., of course).

And you don't take the pill as a preventive; that has been subject to clinical trials and doesn't work. Suma. used only as an attack is developing.

Verap. dose far too low. This is a widely used protocol developed by one of the better headache docs in the U.S.
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Headache. 2004 Nov;44(10):1013-8.   

Individualizing treatment with verapamil for cluster headache patients.

Blau JN, Engel HO.


    Background.-Verapamil is currently the best available prophylactic drug for patients experiencing cluster headaches (CHs). Published papers usually state 240 to 480 mg taken in three divided doses give good results, ranging from 50% to 80%; others mention higher doses-720, even 1200 mg per day. In clinical practice we found we needed to adapt dosage to individual's time of attacks, in particular giving higher doses before going to bed to suppress severe nocturnal episodes. A few only required 120 mg daily. We therefore evolved a scheme for steady and progressive drug increase until satisfactory control had been achieved. Objective.-To find the minimum dose of verapamil required to prevent episodic and chronic cluster headaches by supervising each individual and adjusting the dosage accordingly. Methods.-Consecutive patients with episodic or chronic CH (satisfying International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) were started on verapamil 40 mg in the morning, 80 mg early afternoon, and 80 mg before going to bed. Patients kept a diary of all attacks, recording times of onset, duration, and severity. They were advised, verbally and in writing, to add 40 mg verapamil on alternate days, depending on their attack timing: with nocturnal episodes the first increase was the evening dose and next the afternoon one; when attacks occurred on or soon after waking, we advised setting an alarm clock 2 hours before the usual waking time and then taking the medication. Patients were followed-up at weekly intervals until attacks were controlled. They were also reviewed when a cluster period had ended, and advised to continue on the same dose for a further 2 weeks before starting systematic reduction. Chronic cluster patients were reviewed as often as necessary. Results.-Seventy consecutive patients, 52 with episodic CH during cluster periods and 18 with chronic CH, were all treated with verapamil as above. Complete relief from headaches was obtained in 49 (94%) of 52 with episodic, and 10 (55%) of 18 with chronic CH; the majority needed 200 to 480 mg, but 9 in the episodic, and 3 in the chronic group, needed 520 to 960 mg for control. Ten, 2 in the episodic and 8 in the chronic group, with incomplete relief, required additional therapy-lithium, sumatriptan, or sodium valproate. One patient withdrew because verapamil made her too tired, another developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome, and the drug was withdrawn. Conclusions.-Providing the dosage for each individual is adequate, preventing CH with verapamil is highly effective, taken three (occasionally with higher doses, four) times a day. In the majority (94%) with episodic CH steady dose increase under supervision, totally suppressed attacks. However in the chronic variety only 55% were completely relieved, 69% men, but only 20% women. In both groups, for those with partial attack suppression, additional prophylactic drugs or acute treatment was necessary. (Headache 2004;44:1013-1018).

=======================================
SLOW-RELEASE VERAPAMIL

Dr. Sheftell applauded the protocol for verapamil used by Dr. Goadsby and colleagues, which entailed use of short-acting verapamil in increments of 80 mg. “This method was suggested by Lee Kudrow, MD, 20 years ago as an alternative to slow-release verapamil,” Dr. Sheftell noted.

“I would agree with using short-acting verapamil, rather than the sustained-release formulation, in cluster headache,” he said. “I prefer the short-acting formulation with regard to ability to titrate more accurately and safely. My clinical experience anecdotally demonstrates improved responses when patients are switched from sustained-release verapamil to short-acting verapamil.”

Dr. Goadsby agreed that his clinical experience was similar. “There are no well-controlled, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging studies to direct treatment. This is one of those areas where clinicians who treat cluster headache have to combine what modicum of evidence is available with their own clinical experience,” Dr. Sheftell commented.
===
If there is some objection to using the injection form, following is a good alternative which is also as fast acting as Suma. injection. Note that in a low % it can stop the cycle.
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Headache 2001 Sep;41(8):813-6 

Olanzapine as an Abortive Agent for Cluster Headache.

Rozen TD.

Department of Neurology, Jefferson Headache Center/Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, Philadelphia, Pa.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate olanzapine as a cluster headache abortive agent in an open-label trial. BACKGROUND: Cluster headache is the most painful headache syndrome known. There are very few recognized abortive therapies for cluster headache and fewer for patients who have contraindications to vasoconstrictive drugs. METHODS: Olanzapine was given as an abortive agent to five patients with cluster headache in an open-label trial. THE INITIAL OLANZAPINE DOSE WAS 5 MG, AND THE DOSE WAS INCREASED TO 10 MG IF THERE WAS NO PAIN RELIEF. THE DOSAGE WAS DECREASED TO 2.5 MG IF THE 5-MG DOSE WAS EFFECTIVE BUT CAUSED ADVERSE EFFECTS. To be included in the study, each patient had to treat at least two attacks with either an effective dose or the highest tolerated dose. RESULTS: Five patients completed the investigation (four men, one woman; four with chronic cluster, one with episodic cluster). Olanzapine reduced cluster pain by at least 80% in four of five patients, and TWO PATIENTS BECAME HEADACHE-FREE AFTER TAKING THE DRUG. Olanzapine typically alleviated pain within 20 minutes after oral dosing and treatment response was consistent across multiple treated attacks. The only adverse event was sleepiness. CONCLUSIONS: Olanzapine appears to be a good abortive agent for cluster headache. IT ALLEVIATES PAIN QUICKLY AND HAS A CONSISTENT RESPONSE ACROSS MULTIPLE TREATED ATTACKS. IT APPEARS TO WORK IN BOTH EPISODIC AND CHRONIC CLUSTER HEADACHE.

PMID 11576207 PubMed

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Olanzapine has a brand name of "Zyprexa" and is a antipsychotic. Don't be put off by this primary usage. Several of the drugs used to treat CH are cross over applications, that is, drugs approved by the FDA for one purpose which are found to be effective with unrelated conditions--BJ.
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It's common to use prednisone to stop a cycle within 24-hrs while starting the Verap to give long term prevention. Pred. is used for 10-days on a decreasing dose schedule.

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