Click this link to read a post I like on the clusterheadaches.com message board...

Charlie

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Happy to be here

Posts: 18971
Jamestown, NY
Gender: male

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #75 - Mar 12^th, 2011 at 4:21pm

Bob P wrote on Mar 12^th, 2011 at 7:51am:

I've never been able to understand the liberal, punish the successful, way of thinking. Is it just sour grapes, laziness, or what?

What's happened for the last 30 years especially is a dramatic illustration of what happens when everything is let go. Up to 1929 there was little regulation at all. Throughout the latter half of the 19th and some of the 20th centuries, there were panics or severe economic disruptions about every 7 to 10 years. Getting government "out of the way" was the answer until 1929. Then came along FDR. It worked for 70 years. Then, About 1980, Ronald Reagan at first, and with Dubya finishing up "set things right" and here we are: 2008...It turns out that politicians and economists alike have spent decades unlearning the lessons of the 1930s.

We need government to regulate business to some extent. We want regulation to be strong enough to reduce risk but not to stifle innovation. We want regulators to work cooperatively but not be in bed with those they monitor.

Charlie

Back to top

There is nothing more satisfying than being shot at without result---Winston Churchill

IP Logged

Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #76 - Mar 12^th, 2011 at 4:47pm FDR also believed that unions had no place among public workers.
Back to top	"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand IP Logged

Karla

CH.com Alumnus

Offline

One of Many and Never
Alone - Join OUCH

Posts: 3837
x1|Madison WI USA
Gender: female

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #77 - Mar 12^th, 2011 at 7:39pm

My brother in law is so hyped up about getting the republican senators recalled and is helping getting the petitions going. I on the otherhand am signing to have the democratic senetors who fled the state and hid and didn't do there job and made the situation worse by dragging it out recalled. This state is in total disarray now. I just can not believe it. The protesters are still protesting and today the farmers got involved with the tractors down on the square by the capitol. I am not sure why the protesters have not gone home. It is a done deal. Depspite the fact that the city of Madison and Dane County are suing to have it stopped from going into law and effect and have it reversed. Did I say what a mess?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Mar 12^th, 2011 at 7:41pm by Karla »

Karla&&suffer chronic ch &&ch.com groupie since 1999&&Proud Mom of Chris USMC Semper Fi

IP Logged

Kevin_M

CH.com Sponsor

Offline

withered branches grow
green again.

Posts: 8754
Michigan, USA
Gender: male

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #78 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 6:48am

Quote:

The protesters are still protesting and today the farmers got involved with the tractors down on the square by the capitol. I am not sure why the protesters have not gone home. It is a done deal.

The foretold coming of the bully mesiah has arrived delivering his followers the air of swaggering truculence for this true arrow of confrontational politics -- discontent. He's risen the exhalted and adored step to fundamentally unpopular from the laughing stock called public sentiment, and it pleases. Share the pleasure of putting those weaklings in their place. It shall be known that by any means, bid wages down, profits up and ye shall be free.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2011 at 6:55am by Kevin_M »

IP Logged

Brew

CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Posts: 14163

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #79 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 9:32am

Kevin_M wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 6:48am:

The foretold coming of the bully mesiah has arrived delivering his followers the air of swaggering truculence for this true arrow of confrontational politics -- discontent. He's risen the exhalted and adored step to fundamentally unpopular from the laughing stock called public sentiment, and it pleases. Share the pleasure of putting those weaklings in their place. It shall be known that by any means, bid wages down, profits up and ye shall be free.

I guess the alternative is to just keep throwing larger and larger sums of my money at them.

Like the old parody on the DeBeers commercial: "Diamonds. That'll shut her up."

Back to top

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand

IP Logged

Kevin_M

CH.com Sponsor

Offline

withered branches grow
green again.

Posts: 8754
Michigan, USA
Gender: male

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #80 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 10:00am

Quote:

The protesters are still protesting and today the farmers got involved with the tractors down on the square by the capitol. I am not sure why the protesters have not gone home. It is a done deal.

Partial aid with the disjointed abyss, another's answer.

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to

or

Quote:

Why farmers are driving their tractors to protest at the Capitol

The fact that small farmers like Greeno have decided to protest Walker's budget is an indication not all is well in America's Dairyland. So is the handful of e-mails, phone calls and messages the grassroots Family Farm Defenders have received over the past several days because of its involvement with the event.

John Peck, the group's director, says the calls and messages he has received have one common message: farmers participating in Saturday's protest are being "duped" into supporting the unions.

"This isn't us versus them, with farmers siding with union employees," says Scott Schultz, executive director of the Wisconsin Farmers Union. "In rural farm communities, Walker's budget is hitting home in a number of ways."

...

Zimmerman says agriculture has historically fared well as an industry because most lawmakers have farmers in their districts, giving politicians from both sides of the aisle an understanding of agriculture-related issues.

While Greeno says he typically votes for Democrats, Peck says many of the farmers coming Saturday are Republicans, just not "Walker-style Republicans".

"These are Dale Schultz-style Republicans coming to Madison," Peck says.

Dale Schultz, who represents the Richland Center area, is the only Republican senator who voted against the controversial bill signed Friday by Walker that stripped public union workers of most of their collective bargaining rights.

"These are people who are starting to realize Walker's agenda is sacrificing Wisconsin's quality of life for everyone, not just labor unions," Peck says. "That's why they are rallying in Madison."

Back to top

« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2011 at 10:03am by Kevin_M »

IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

Brew

CH.com Sponsor
CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Posts: 14163

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #81 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 10:08am

Quote:

"These are people who are starting to realize Walker's agenda is sacrificing Wisconsin's quality of life for everyone, not just labor unions," Peck says. "That's why they are rallying in Madison."

Which is why these people need to go home and figure out how they're going to maintain their "quality of life" without sucking at the public teat. I and the other taxpayers who elected these guys are done with it. If it's civil war they want, it's civil war they'll get. I know which side is better armed.

"Quality of life" provided by government is not sustainable.

Back to top

"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand

IP Logged

Kevin_M

CH.com Sponsor

Offline

withered branches grow
green again.

Posts: 8754
Michigan, USA
Gender: male

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #82 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 10:25am

That is the disjoining aspect of this, why are farmers worried so much about these state employees to drive tractors there? That's not just the issue as Charlie keeps pointing out, this reaches farther. That's why it was so short-sighted.

Quote:

Walker's agenda is sacrificing Wisconsin's quality of life for everyone, not just labor unions

Back to top

IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #83 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 10:34am Quote: In December 1860, when S.C. was first to secede, the Charleston Mercury read this way: "The tea has been thrown overboard. Quote: If it's civil war they want, it's civil war they'll get. I know which side is better armed. How sadly ironic to be using the original tea party memory for this.
Back to top	IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #84 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 10:39am Quote: I know which side is better armed. Smother democracy with an avalanche of money.
Back to top	IP Logged

Brew CH.com Sponsor CH.com Alumnus Offline Posts: 14163	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #85 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 10:46am If the public unions were truly interested in democracy, they'd accept the outcome of the November elections. Hint: they're not interested.
Back to top	"I have been asked if I have changed in these past 25 years. No, I am the same. Only more so." --Ayn Rand IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #86 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 10:58am Yep, the arms of money talked pretty loud in a close one, but ignored the part on the back, ... We Trust. Nixon's second term was a landslide. But then...
Back to top	IP Logged

Kevin_M

CH.com Sponsor

Offline

withered branches grow
green again.

Posts: 8754
Michigan, USA
Gender: male

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #87 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:04pm

Marc wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 11:50am:

It's good to see that you folks have been enormously successful at changing each others positions.

Yes, I crossed my legs twice. Wink

Quote:

Regardless of political position, I recommend that people prepare for potential changes in their lifestyle.

What's cookin', Marc.

Still hoping all best for you on business ventures.

Back to top

IP Logged

Melissa

CH.com Moderator
CH.com Alumnus

Offline

Don't give up!

Posts: 7238
Central WI, USA
Gender: female

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #88 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:15pm

Kevin_M wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 10:25am:

That is the disjoining aspect of this, why are farmers worried so much about these state employees to drive tractors there? That's not just the issue as Charlie keeps pointing out, this reaches farther. That's why it was so short-sighted.

Quote:

Walker's agenda is sacrificing Wisconsin's quality of life for everyone, not just labor unions

The farmers are union and accept government subsidies.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:19pm by Melissa »

Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel

IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #89 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:27pm Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members only!! You need to or
Back to top	« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:29pm by Melissa » Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #90 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:29pm Quote: The farmers are union and accept government subsidies. What if they will need to be armed, like oil? Their subsidies passed no problem. Maybe they're worried food is less important though.
Back to top	IP Logged

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #91 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:32pm Kevin_M wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:29pm: Quote: The farmers are union and accept government subsidies. What if they will need to be armed, like oil? Their subsidies passed no problem. Maybe they're worried food is less important though. ?? I guess I don't understand your question.
Back to top	Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #92 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:38pm Oh. Maybe their worried about putting out more money for a bigger lobby. Kind of like having to pay union dues, only much more.
Back to top	« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:39pm by Kevin_M » IP Logged

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #93 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:50pm Kevin_M wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:38pm: Oh. Maybe their worried about putting out more money for a bigger lobby. Kind of like having to pay union dues, only much more. Who is "they"? The farmers?
Back to top	Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #94 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:56pm Marc, that sounds really great for you. I'm very happy to hear! You had too many good skills to ever let lie dormant. I know it was tough for quite a stretch, but your good attitude prevailed.
Back to top	IP Logged

Kevin_M CH.com Sponsor Offline withered branches grow green again. Posts: 8754 Michigan, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #95 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:59pm Melissa wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:50pm: Who is "they"? The farmers? Oh, yes Mel. I speelled it wrong.
Back to top	IP Logged

Melissa CH.com Moderator CH.com Alumnus Offline Don't give up! Posts: 7238 Central WI, USA Gender:	Re: whats going on in wisconsin? Reply #96 - Mar 13^th, 2011 at 1:42pm Kevin_M wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:59pm: Melissa wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 12:50pm: Who is "they"? The farmers? Oh, yes Mel. I speelled it wrong. Oh, ok. lol
Back to top	Diseases can be our spiritual flat tires - disruptions in our lives that seem to be disasters at the time but end by redirecting our lives in a meaningful way. ~Bernie S. Siegel IP Logged

Click Here to visit the CH.com Facebook page!

hdrider

CH.com Newbie

Offline

Go Cubs & Bears! (they
both suck right now)

Posts: 3
x0|Kiel|USA||0|0|WI,Wisconsin
Gender: male

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #97 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 11:20am

Charlie wrote on Mar 12^th, 2011 at 4:21pm:

Bob P wrote on Mar 12^th, 2011 at 7:51am:

I've never been able to understand the liberal, punish the successful, way of thinking. Is it just sour grapes, laziness, or what?

What's happened for the last 30 years especially is a dramatic illustration of what happens when everything is let go. Up to 1929 there was little regulation at all. Throughout the latter half of the 19th and some of the 20th centuries, there were panics or severe economic disruptions about every 7 to 10 years. Getting government "out of the way" was the answer until 1929. Then came along FDR. It worked for 70 years. Then, About 1980, Ronald Reagan at first, and with Dubya finishing up "set things right" and here we are: 2008...It turns out that politicians and economists alike have spent decades unlearning the lessons of the 1930s.

We need government to regulate business to some extent. We want regulation to be strong enough to reduce risk but not to stifle innovation. We want regulators to work cooperatively but not be in bed with those they monitor.

Charlie

Back to top

If you can't get off.....don't get on

IP Logged

Bob P

CH.com Hall of Famer

Offline

Shut up Bob!

Posts: 4573
Clio,California
Gender: male

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #98 - Mar 14^th, 2011 at 7:55pm

UCLA economists studying the great depression determined that FDR's bailout policies lengthened the depression by 7 years. Ronnie, on the other hand, kept the Goverment out of the recession during his term. In a year it had corrected and we were back in business.
It's all Dubya's fault! Lips Sealed

Quote:

After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four years, Harold L. Cole and Lee E. Ohanian conclude in a new study that New Deal policies signed into law 71 years ago thwarted economic recovery for seven long years.

"Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies."

In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy, Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Mar 14^th, 2011 at 7:59pm by Bob P »

Mrs. Barlow, I never, and I repeat never, ever pissed in your steam iron. "SHUT UP HUB!"

IP Logged

Kevin_M

CH.com Sponsor

Offline

withered branches grow
green again.

Posts: 8754
Michigan, USA
Gender: male

Re: whats going on in wisconsin?
Reply #99 - Mar 15^th, 2011 at 2:03am

Quote:

studying the great depression determined that FDR's bailout policies lengthened the depression by 7 years

Hoover's alternatives had the first shot at it. He wasn't re-elected.

Depression years: 1929-1939. If FDR extended it by seven years, that means we were on the verge of emerging by the end of Hoover's term in '32. You buy that?

By '34-35, FDR even pushed through a Dust Bowl in his agenda.

Quote:

Ronnie, on the other hand, kept the Goverment out of the recession during his term. In a year it had corrected and we were back in business.

The recession was already a year old before Ronnie stated we are in a "slight recession". After after that, the recession was at its lowest, 82-83, and these would follow being back in business.

1983 - Bank failures exceeded those of the Great Depression.

1984 - Bank failures culminated with the Continental Illinois collapse and rescue package.

1985 - Unemployment national average of 10%. (MI peaked earlier at 15.6%)

Housing, steel, autos did not recover until the end of his second term.

Of course business practices of the time contributed greatly. He inherited a very bad situation and it was better by the end of his second term. Another small recession soonafter.

During his time we moved from the biggest creditholder in the world to the biggest debtor.

another's view:

Quote:

By the end of 1982 the U.S. economy was deeply depressed, with the worst unemployment rate since the Great Depression. So there was plenty of room to grow before the economy returned to anything like full employment.

In this view, Reaganomics was not a refutation but rather a confirmation of Keynesian economics: the expansion was primarily a recovery from the 1982 recession, which was created by the textbook Keynesian monetary policy of Volcker, not the tax policy of Reagan.

Quote:

It's all Dubya's fault!

2008, another great year?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Mar 15^th, 2011 at 5:54am by Kevin_M »

IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
	Search box updated Dec 3, 2011... Search ch.com with Google!